Timer Reset Improvement and a Ready Flash would be nice

Discussion in 'Simulator Suggestions' started by wilmer007, Sep 27, 2011.

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  1. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    So earlier i was in a battle with this guy who had his ferrothorn as his last poke. I still had SkarmChanCruel. Naturally the game goes to over 150 turns then when he has a few PPs (he said he had 2 left) he starts stalling. Talking about "decisions descisions" luckily he decided to time out before i could try and get a mod in because he was clearly going to move every 3 mins so the timer resets and gives him an extra 30 seconds thereby making the match last like another 10-15 mins for no reason (trying to get me to leave so he gets the win). The match was already long enough as it is so why make it any longer. The timer should be 5 mins with no reset period. You got 5 mins or 300 seconds. If you waste 60 seconds to make one move you don't get back any seconds and you left with 240 seconds for the remainder of the battle. Most battles take around 50 turns or less and each move should not take more than 5 seconds. If anything implement something that gives the player like 15 seconds to make his move and then his 300 seconds start ticking down. If he moves 20 seconds after the previous turn ended; that means he loses 5 seconds from his 300 second timer and now has 295 seconds. This way when i see his timer says 2:30 i know i only have to wait 150 more seconds and not 180 seconds after the timer automatically gives him 30 seconds. 15 seconds is more than enough as 30 seconds is too long. It doesn't take someone 30 seconds to figure out which pokemon he's going to use on Swords Dancing Extreme Killer Arceus.

    Another thing that can be done is to determine a standard amount of turns or the total amount of PP that your entire team has left (such as more than 50 turns and or less than 20 total PP) and within each Turn or PP range the timer reset rules change. Such as 1-50 turns or more than 50 PPs is 30 seconds. 50-75 turns or 25-50 PPs become 20 seconds, 75-100 or 15-20 PPs is 15 seconds, 100-150 or 10-15 PPs is 10 seconds and 150+ or <10 PPs becomes 5 seconds, etc... Like this games will run much faster and more smoother since when he is about to run out of PPs he's forced to move to speed up the match.


    The other thing i think that needs to be added in is a big Ready Button or Status (maybe with different colors for the player to choose). I play on a 46" HDTV so when i tell Skarmory to use Taunt i actually know that i selected a move and i'm ready. Call of Duty, Civilization Revolution and some other video games have a Ready Status to let everyone know that you are ready to continue. Taunt is a White/Grey color so when i select it, it makes it difficult to see that i selected the move. I shouldn't have to be checking on my own timer if i thought i selected a move. The same goes with selecting a move during say a Taunt or Encore. You may need to go to the restroom really quick then come back and your sibiling is interupting your concentration and you totally forget that he used Disable to disable your Taunt and then here you are stalling the game without noticing it let alone if your winning.


    So please look into this as it will improve the UI and make games faster since not everyone has all day to sit around a 150+ match only to have a sore loser make the next 10-15 mins (after it's already turn 150+) more of a living hell; especially if you need to go and do something in your personal life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  2. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    I don't agree with either suggestions.

    For the first suggestion, it wouldn't be a bad idea to lower the "regained time after each turn", but putting it to 0 is ridiculous. If you have a long match, it pretty much becomes a "whoever clicks faster wins" game. Also, many players need to think, especially in a complicated strategy game like this.

    As for the second suggestion, all of the moves change a little (specifically, become lighter), so it's really easy to tell if you're ready. This might be a feature exclusive to the Mac version, though...
     
  3. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    Thats the thing on a 46" HDTV if they get lighter it makes it even harder to see especially if i'm like 5-8 ft away from the tv. This happens alot to me when using moves like Sleep Talk and Taunt as they are normal and therefore White or Grey making it camouflage to the naked eye. Now if you put a big Ready Text that changes from red to green when you are ready then i can clearly see that. Or if theres a red and green ready button i know that when i click that ready button i made my move and i'm ready for the next turn rather than accidently stalling the match.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  4. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    The vast majority of users use PO on a Computer, which means most people won't have a problem. And if the screen's big, shouldn't you notice details easier, too?
     
  5. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    In case you haven't noticed we live in a Digital World now where everything and everyone is usually up to date on the lastest technology or technology thats right in the middle. the middle ground is Big Screens with the potential to use HDMI or DVI/VGA (which all 3 are pretty standard in all of today's monitors and HDTVs). This basically means that someone who has a old fat tv or the big fat and heavy VGA Monitor is still in the Stone Age, while HDTVS and HD Monitors are the standard and the 3DTVs are the High End where only the rich can afford or want. Recent but not too old video cards (a couple of years old) come with HDMI/DVI so computers are stocked to handle the digital users of the last few years.
     
  6. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

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    I don't know much about all this, but really, the developers have the final say in if the suggestion would be implemented or not. I'm just stating my opinion.
     
  7. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    I know you are but i'm sure the devs are fully aware that this world is not in the stone age... ^_^
     
  8. Mystra

    Mystra Active Member

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    I agree with the statement that grayness is not enough indicator.
     
  9. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    lol, 46" HDTV for PO.


    There's already no timeout clause, maybe adding Blitz rule with set 5 minutes or the 15 second increase instead of 30 seconds you proposed.

    I think the normal mode definitely needs the 5 minutes + 30 seconds. Benefits are great compared to bad sides. I sometimes need to change diapers in the middle of the game and blitz game would lose that for me.
     
  10. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    While i can understand and respect you changing diapers in between turns not everyone has that responsibility and if they did they wouldn't be playing while doing their responsibilities. Remember that video games are designed with the thought that you can sit down and play when you are not busy not the other way around. You can't play Call of Duty while changing diapers and the only time you can change the diapers is in the lobby waiting for the next game to start or you'll get kicked out and get deaths for being AFK; therefore defeating the purpose of making any video game session last longer.


    I like the blitz rule so it helps find the happy medium for ppl who need more time and ppl who need less time. The problem with that however is which rule would we use for "Find Match"?

    Maybe give the player options and let the player decide which rule he wants to use?

    Also heres a quick comparion of your typical battles so everyone can clearly see why this needs to be fixed:


    Battle A: Player 1 wins in 50-150 Turns (your standard battle with the 30 second timer reset rule): - I call this Classic Battle Mode

    This mode allows players to have any type of length of games such as short turns (50 turns or less), standard turns (75-100 turns) or long turn games (150+ Turns)

    Assuming each turn last 30 seconds (since you'll get them back the next turn)

    50 Turns * 30 seconds = 1500 seconds / 60 seconds = 25 minutes.

    100 Turns * 30 seconds = 3000 seconds / 60 seconds = 50 minutes

    150 Turns * 30 seconds = 4500 seconds / 60 seconds = 75 minutes

    This write here translates into a long battle no matter what length of turns it is. Who wants to sit around for half an hour or longer for one battle? One hour on average. Especially if your losing...



    But how do other battles fair up with new changes? Let's Find out:



    Battle B: Player 2 wins in 150 turns (PP Stall War with current 30 second timer reset rule): - I call this Classic Marathon Mode

    150 turns * 30 seconds = 4500 seconds / 60 seconds = 75 minutes

    This is way too long for a battle, almost as much as a standard Civilization Revolution (Civ Rev) Game since standard games in Civ Rev have a 60 second timer but everyone usually completes their turns within 30 seconds. No one in their right mind is going to stay 75 mins just to get a +10 win. At this rate the guy winning will be bored of playing PO for the day let alone he'll go AFK and lose for Timed Out Rule. Also if players have bad internet connections and get disconnected from their battle they will either get a loss or a draw. I would not be in a good mood if i had to do a 75 minute match (while i'm winning) just to get a loss because the other guy thought that by stalling he could get the win; which he did but only because of my connection which is out of my hands.


    Battle C: Player 2 wins in 150 turns under one of the new rules: - I call this Marathon Mode

    Battles are still very long (PP Stall Wars) but now they are under the new standard 15 second reset timer.

    150 Turns * 15 seconds = 2250 seconds / 60 seconds = 37.5 minutes

    Wow 38 minutes for a battle is still long but not as bad as Classic Marathon Mode as this basically cuts the length of the battle in half from Classic Marathon Mode. This is still a little long but a 38 minute PP Stall War is still exciting as either player can win and you don't get bored as quickly since the first 15-20 minutes of this lengthy battle still hasn't been decided as either player has an equal chance of winning. The last 15 mins of this match has pretty much already been decided; so it's only a matter of time before the player that is losing will either leave the battle and take his loss as he should or he still hasn't realized that he cannot win and still thinks he has a chance to win (which he could very well still win however very unlikely).

    Battle D: Player 1 wins in 50 turns under one of the new rules: - I call this Battle Mode

    This is basically your classic standard battle mode from up above but now 15 seconds instead of 30 seconds.

    50 turns * 15 seconds = 750 seconds / 60 seconds = 12.5 minutes
    100 turns * 15 seconds = 1500 seconds / 60 seconds = 25 minutes
    150 turns * 15 seconds = 2250 seconds / 60 seconds = 37.5 minutes.

    Now we're getting somewhere as this cuts down the Classic Battle Mode by half. This normal speed standard battle is still a little long but still manageable. This gives people time to take care of their responsibilites while still be able to play a standard battle.

    No complains here.


    Battle E: Player 1 wins in 50 turns under one of the new rules : - I call this Blitz Mode


    The New Blitz Mode makes the timer reset rule 6 seconds instead of 15 or 30 seconds and the 2 Minute Warning (replaces the 5 minute clock that we have now). A great way to play alot of battles and quickly too.

    50 turns * 6 seconds = 300 seconds / 60 seconds = 5 minutes

    Holly crap this is fast and just what i want. I get more battles (so i see all kinds of different teams during my game session) and i can do anything else in my personal life and then come do a quick 5 minute battle when i have a free moment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  11. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    Pokemon is not a reaction game, it's supposed to have some time to think. 6 seconds is definitely not enough, especially with network lag which is several seconds for some people.

    Also, server moderators exists also for timestallers. They can kick them. There's no need to play 75 minute matches with PP and timestallers. Usually when I get into a PP stall, we both click very fast, though it's still annoying.

    Still, a suggestion for making a faster battle mode noted.
     
  12. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    yeah well some ppl need more than 6 seconds but someone like me who plays a counter playstyle only needs 3 seconds at most :)

    And also by having a turn cap for each mode theres no need to click away all your PP and wait to see who uses struggle first. Once the turn log gets to turn 50 the battle ends in an automatic draw and so it helps the guy he is also losing get away with a draw. It's a great way to make the faster players improve their skills as they have to finish off Giratina from blocking rapid spin in less than 50 turns.

    if someone has bad connection issues he can opt to use standard battle mode and not blitz mode.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  13. Mystra

    Mystra Active Member

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    If you need only 3 seconds it does not mean everyone must do the same.
     
  14. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    ^ honestly the extra time a player takes is time wasted that could have gone to another battle. You lose -20 so what you'll get it right back in 5 mins when you go +25 in your next battle as oppossed to spending 3x longer for the same end result. It's called experience for a reason and you gain more experience with more battles.

    Two guys both have a 1500 rating yet one guy has 5x more battle knowledge and experience than the other. They may be equally skilled but the guy with more losses has more battles experience under his belt while they other guy may need to still learn a couple of things.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  15. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    I honestly think that Pokemon Multiplayer is a wrong game for you if you don't manage to wait a bit between turns.
     
  16. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    ^ no heres why:

    Two Players are battling and turns are being done within 3 seconds or so making turns go by super quick.

    Player 1 has a Ludicolo with Swift Swim and Lum Berry with Leech Seed, Protect, Substitute, Surf
    Player 2 has a Kyogre on the field with Thunder, Water Spout, Surf, Ice Beam against Ludicolo

    Ludicolo uses Leech Seed then Sub + Protect to wall Kyogre down.
    Ludicolo now uses Substitute and Kyogre breaks the wall
    Now Ludicolo quickly clicks Protect knowing it's safe next turn
    Kyogre now gets a free switch out cuz he knows protect is next
    Kyogre player hasn't made his move within 3 seconds like he used to be doing
    This gives Ludicolo the warning that the player is not going to be using an attack next turn

    Now Ludicolo goes back and switches to Sub
    Player 2 brings in Lugia to use Aero Blast to drain those Subs
    Ludicolo uses Leech Seed after his Free Sub
    Counter Fail and Lugia loses health from Leech Seed giving Player 1 the advantage in the battle (not factoring in both pokes can drain each others PP)

    Had he taken his time to ready up he would have been sub less and wasted a Protect for nothing. Now he's a sitting duck since he can't Leech Seed Lugia without dieing. You have no idea how many times i've been in this scenario and the warning has prevented me from losing what looked to be an easy counter for him and probably giving him the win.

    The same would be said if it was the other way around giving the other player the free switch in to counter making this a Mind Games battle.

    Two equally skilled players can use this to their advantage because they both know the sub needs to be broken first before any counter is performed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  17. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

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    If that's not biased I don't know what is.

    It's a strategy game, We need time to think. Not everyone plays your silly "Counter" Playstyle.
    Think how it would effect the metagame, Stall will be rendered unusable due your Timer Suggestion.
    Hyper Offense would have little time for predictions, I mean 6 seconds, Seriously?

    For your Ready Sign idea, it would decrease prediction drastically.
    And a 46" HDTV for PO is just... wow.
     
  18. Lamperi

    Lamperi I see what you did there

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    As said, suggestion noted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  19. wilmer007

    wilmer007 Member

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    Lamperi unlocked it so i can add the 2 Minute Warning for Blitz Mode (meaning it would replace the standard 5 minute clock that we use now).

    Also i forgot to mention earlier but if a Big Ready Button or Status is put in (with Red and Green) it can be made so that the other player doesn't know weither it is Red or Green. It's mainly just so that you clearly know that you have chosen your move and are ready to proceed vs accidently stalling the match and the timers.

    Ok you can lock it back up now
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
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