Hihi all! Recently, Gold mentioned that he had been experimenting with various Choice Banders, and out of curiousity, I decided to try a few of the Pokemon that he had been testing. To say the least, I was thrilled and suprisied by the results. Choice items have always been a tricky area in the metagame. A true 'deal with the devil', they increase a stat to ridiculous levels whilst trapping that Pokemon into one move. The Pokemon itself must be carefully selected; there can be no random attatching to a Pokemon to increase its power. And Choice items have become immensely popular, probably the most succesful being the Choice Band, often seen adorning Pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar. Choiced Pokemon usually play one of tthree roles; an end game sweeper, a 'damage racker', and a revenge killer. To be honest, I don't have much use for the prior, as I prefer a stat boosting sweeper in most circumstances; the second is often useful, especially on teams with a speed boosting sweeper, and the last is almost obligatory on most teams to deal with Mence, Gyra and other stat boosters. It is also commonly seen holding a Choice Scarf. My favourite Choice item user of the moment is probably this guy: Celebi@ChoiceSpecs Modest nature 252 HP, 252 Sp.attack Leaf Storm HP Fire Psychic Earth Power Never expected, but my foe has all the reason in the world to be scared. This little gem can really wreak havoc on teams, more often than not when the opponents counter is dealt a ridiculous amount of damage. For example, many trainers, when in a tight spot, are perfectly willing to bring in a Choice Band Tyranitar on Celebi due to its high HP and Sp.def. Choice Specs Celebi can easily 1HKO with prior SR damage. I'd like to know what your opinion on Choice items is. Do you like to use them? Do you find them to be overrated? And which Pokemon do you feel benefit from them the most? Feel free to post sets as an example- but please, show some originality; I don't want a long list of people's Choice Scarf Flygon sets. Thanks for reading! +) (Patented 'Evil Clown' Smiley)
In the NU metagame, I rely heavily on my Choice Scarf Solrock to revenge kill things. Once I've pulled out the surprise fast Explosion on tanks like Walrein and Skuntank, I then rely on Sharpedo with Scarf to revenge kill everything else. Non-substitute Espeon gets a nasty surprise when Crunch OHKOs it. In OU, I try not to use Choice items. Scizor has it for the necessary firepower boost to Bullet Punch, but I don't even like that much. I much prefer Life Orb to any Choice item, because when I use a sweeper I rarely expect them to outlive half of the opponent's team. The reason why Choice Band is so popular is partly because it came out earlier than the other two. I can't remember if it was second or third gen, but it came out first, and was one of the more obvious choices to take advantage of things like Technician STAB Bullet Punch. Perhaps there are equivelently overpowered Special sets, but we haven't seen them yet. One of the leading examples for good Choice Scarf usage, I think, would be Heatran. One of only two Fire types considered well-used enough for OU, it is horrendously slow compared to everything else. The best way to remedy that, short of maxing out all of the EVs into Speed, is to give it the Choice Scarf and watch it get surprise kills on all sorts of things.
All very good points; however, (this may just be how you put it), but there was no Bullet Punch in the Third gen. In NU, Slaking is king Choice Item user. You don't even need a Choice Scarf most of the time, just Choice Band Double Edge to wreck everything.
I feel choice items are just too easy to predict, counter, and set-up on. Sure they help in the beginning, but after a single Swords Dance that pokemon is more powerful than a CB'd variant. Plus a pokemon with a self healing move makes it even easier to mitigate the side effect of Life Orb. Choice Band was released in the 3rd Gen, Juggler.
Three Pokemon that are awesome with Choice items, one for each Choice item. Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Grass] - Shadow Ball - Baton Pass Jolteon is simply a beast. Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball hits everything in OU except for Magnezone for at least neutral damage. Hidden Power Grass hits most Ground types for super effective damage, and helps Jolteon to beat Swampert. Baton Pass is an interesting move. It lets you scout what your opponent's first switch in for Jolteon is, and switch to a Pokemon that can deal with it effectively. It's a very effective move to have, despite not Baton Passing any stats or a Substitute about. Seriously, try this. It is very good. Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Bullet Punch - Pursuit - Superpower - U-turn Okay, it's Scizor. He's the number 1 used Pokemon for a reason though. You can't deny that this set is brilliant, despite it being known by most battlers in OU. The general idea, if you didn't already know, is to basically just keep spamming U-turn. You can then switch in a Pokemon that can handle whatever the opponent has out. Bullet Punch is the main move that brought Scizor to number one, and it can easily help in covering your tracks if Salamence and other Pokemon start to sweep. Superpower helps to cover those things that resist both of Scizor's STAB moves, such as Heatran. A swift OHKO makes Heatran a lot less of a threat. The threat of Pursuit will always cause the opponent problems: Do they stay in and risk getting hit by a U-turn, Bullet Punch or Superpower, or do they switch out and risk getting beaten down with Pursuit? With Technician boosting both Pursuit and Bullet Punch, things get hurt fast when using the number 1 used set on the number 1 used Pokemon. Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf Trait: Download EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Tri Attack - Dark Pulse - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Fighting] What? I ditched Heatran in favour of a fragile Pokemon that can be beaten by a truckload of common OU Pokemon? Why, yes I did, and you can count yourself lucky I didn't go for Heracross for the Choice Band or Scarf Pokemon. Anyway, Porygon-Z has the highest Special Attack in OU but it has a fairly poor Speed stat. How do we solve this? Simple! Choice Scarf! Granted, this isn't always a good thing to think (Choice Scarf Snorlax, anyone?), but Porygon-Z is a good Scarf Pokemon. First point of address: Why Download? Well, if you get a +1 Special Attack boost with Download, it applies to all of your attacks and not just Tri Attack. Granted, you might not get the +1 Special Attack boost, but the chance is always worth it. Feel free to use Adaptability if you want, but I recommend Download. Onto the moves. Tri Attack is for simple, super strong STAB. Use it as much as you like. Dark Pulse hits Ghosts, Thunderbolt hits Gyarados. Hidden Power Fighting can help against Tyranitar and Heatran. Now, a lot of you will probably be thinking why I left out Ice Beam. Porygon-Z is still outsped by a +1 Naive Salamence, so it won't be revenging a Dragon Dancer. +1 Tri Attack will always OHKO Naive Salamence if Stealth Rock is on the field, and has a 87% chance of OHKOing Jolly Salamence. Dragonite would survive Ice Beam anyway. Gliscor is always OHKOed with +1 Tri Attack with Stealth Rock also. Ice Beam is basically redundant. Regardless, Porygon-Z is a brilliant user of Choice Scarf... It is just a shame its Speed is lower than a +1 Base 100 Pokemon... I've already mentioned how I wanted to include Heracross for Band and Scarf. Salamence could be used for Specs or Band. There's a few others, both those three above are three of my favourite Choice item Pokemon, and they do their job well. Also, I know that Jolteon's and Scizor's sets are basically standard, and Porygon-Z has a slight change. No need to shout at me for it though. Anyway, I feel that a Choice item on the right Pokemon is a good idea. I don't like using Pokemon that require Hidden Power for a Choice item mostly (ignore Jolteon and Pory-Z), but in the right cases it is useful. As for that Celebi set: Consider running U-turn over one of the moves, possibly either Psychic or Earth Power. It'd help ease your prediction a little bit, and we all know that U-turn is a useful move.
Lol, Oak, why would I shout at you? Although I asked for more unusual sets, those are excellent analysis's of three very powerful Choice item users. I'm a tad suprised that you use Choice Scarf PZ, as you strike me as an excellent battler- no offence to the set (lol wut did I say?), but I've never met one person other than you who didn't find it, as best, mediocre to reasonable. Of course, Choice Band Scizor is a classic, though I try to avoid to using it, although sometimes it is unavoidable. Choice Specs Jolteon....meh, very powerful, bu to reiterate, power isn't the only thing that decides a Choice item user. I just feel that it is pretty easy to run rings around it- to be honest, I prefer the Sub passer. Overall though, a detailed and comprehensive analysis Oak. Thanks a lot!
Don't worry, I already mentioned the typical reaction to me posting that :P My weakness got the better of me. Now you have to read a post all about my favourite Pokemon. Heracross @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf Trait: Guts EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Speed Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Megahorn - Stone Edge / Rock Slide - Night Slash / Pursuit / Toxic Yes, lots of forward slashes. Heracross can be used very well, either as a very powerful Choice Band Pokemon or as a powerful yet surprisingly speedy Choice Scarfer. His Base 120 power STAB moves, Close Combat and Megahorn, are so very powerful with his Base 125 Attack backing it up. Stone Edge is there for further coverage, hitting the Flying types that resist both of his STAB moves for super-effective damage, with Rock Slide as the perennial "safer" option. To be honest, Stone Edge is the better option, as using Choice Heracross is pretty much all about the power, whether you are Banded or Scarfed. Anyway, the Dark type moves are there to hit Ghosts with a little more power than Stone Edge can, as they are immune to your Fighting STAB and resistant to your Bug STAB. Pursuit is always useful, and trapping and killing Gengar is always fun. Night Slash is the power option if they decide to stay in. The choice is yours. I'm so punny. Toxic is an option to really be used on ScarfCross as opposed to BandCross. The lack of power with a Choice Scarf (even with a 383 Attack if you're using Adamant) can be a problem against the bulkiest opponents (read: bulky Water and Ground types), so Toxic could be interesting. I haven't used it myself, if I am honest, but I can see how it could be useful. A quick glance on the Smogon analysis has shown me Sleep Talk as well, but I wouldn't recommend it in OU. A Choice item will prevent multiple uses of Sleep Talk, and you only have a 33% chance of selecting the move you want. In Ubers, on the other hand, it could be useful to take on Darkrai and others. The choice of nature is up to you as well. It depends on what you want. Adamant reaches 383 Attack and 269 Speed and Jolly reaches 349 Attack and 295 Speed (which becomes 574 Attack / 403 Speed and 523 Attack / 442 Speed after the Band / Scarf boost respectively). Using Jolly gives you the ability to outspeed Heatran, and Jolly Scarf beats ScarfTran, naturally. However, the sheer power of an Adamant nature is very noticeable. I'll say it again: It is up to you. I've finished now. I'm not very good at obscure Choice Banders, possibly because I like to win too much lol
I always try to avoid Choice pokèmons...even though there is one that i absolutely love, and i always use him Starmie @ Choice Specs Trait: Natural Cure Evs: 252 Speed / 252 Sp.Atk / 4 HP Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) -Surf -Ice Beam -Thunderbolt -Psychic My favourite set ever, pure power, i prefer Starmie on Jolteon, not for a good reason, i just love her. With this set, with Surf you can 0HKO Scizor (he takes 90% damage or something similar, so it's a 0HKO with Stealth Rock), it 0HKOs Heatran, she can 2HKOs a Suicune with Thunderbolt after 1 or 2 Malm Mind, she 5HKO Blissey (lol, no way, Blissey use Softboiled, but it's still a funny statistic), 0HKOs all Dragons in the game (except Kingdra), she 2HKO Jolteon (maybe 0HKO after Stealth Rock, i don't remember exactly the damage), 2HKO Tyranitar (and she survive from a Pursuit by ScarfTar), she 0HKO Gengar with Surf (with Psychic is -1HKO lol), she 2HKO Breloom with Surf, she 0HKO Gyarados with Thunderbolt, she 2HKO Skarmory with Surf and 3HKOs Swampert. No one expect her to be choice, and people normally fear a Trick, so Blissey normally is kept away from her
I personally prefer Life Orb Starmie, with Surf / Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam alongside Recover over Specs Starmie. Psychic doesn't really help you at all - as you said, Specs Surf is pretty much a OHKO on Gengar as it is, Ice Beam OHKOs Breloom and being locked on Psychic makes you Pursuit bait. I know you said you like Psychic over Trick, but I'd really recommend Trick over Psychic. Blissey might not want to switch in because of the threat of Trick, but she'll eventually figure out that you don't, especially if you use Psychic. Trick will still ruin her, which none of your attacks will do otherwise. Anyway, I'm gonna mentioned Choice Scarf Starmie, whilst we're on the topic of the star. Ice Beam / Surf / Thunderbolt / Trick with Starmie's 361 Speed prior to the Scarf boost allows it to revenge kill a +1 Salamence, Gengar or Heatran, and a +2 Adamant Gyarados. Of course, Trick is mainly there for dealing with Blissey, but it is always useful to hit a random slow Pokemon with Choice Scarf to mess it up. Again, I prefer the Life Orb attacker, but that doesn't stop either Choice Specs or Scarf Starmie from being good.
since this post starts out with my name mentioned in the first lines, let me honor it. Three sections, each for the three different metagames that I like playing (I will not include LC, as people who play LC understand exactly who are the good scarfers). I will say to my defense now, before I start, that I tend to avoid smogon when making choiced sets - Stuff like Heatran is certainly from there, but most of it is not, so don't ask me if they're standard, and if they look exactly the same as Smogon, well then, I'd guess it's because some sets are fairly obvious. OU: Choice Specs is my favourite of the three in this metagame where Special Defense is overlooked - with most powerful sweepers being physical (since a good special sweeper must be able to break Blissey, which is not an easy thing to do), specs users put large dents in teams. Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 40 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Earth Power - Dragon Pulse - Hidden Power [Grass] Sheer Power. Specs Heatran is one of the most difficult pokemon to stop once a bit of scouting has happened. Do I need to explain that anything that does not resist Fire Blast is demolished? Blissey, miss perfect, takes damage upwards of 40% from it - this means it cannot switch into Fire Blast since there is a high chance of a 2KO after entry hazards. The only problem with this is it is slow. REALLY slow for the fast beasts of OU - it is mainly used to break stallers, who tend to be slower. Rotom-H @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Shadow Ball - Thunderbolt - Overheat - Trick Specs: Certainly, not as powerful as Heatran. But, it is unexpected. REALLY unexpected. And, much easier to switch in. Scarf: amazing revenge killer, and can also be a pretty good lead. I also have a Fan variant with Air Slash instead of Overheat - works better as an annoyer thanks to the flinch rate, and takes Machamp more easily. moving on to the fun stuff UU: Arcanine (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Flash Fire EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Flare Blitz - ExtremeSpeed - Thunder Fang - Iron Head Flash Fire? Over intimidate? you nutz? When I made it, I was thinking of the nifty Fire immunity it would bring. However, I realised that it's greatest strength lay elsewhere: in making the opponent think I would use a Fire move, since I got the boost. Granted, Flash Fire boosted flare blitz does a lot, and it has helped me muscle through even pokemon that resist it. However, the fear of a boosted fire move makes people not think stuff through, and I get the surprise kills. an Arcanine that elects to stay in and Espeed gets promptly beaten since my Espeed is more powerful (the morning glory set is much more common than CB). A not-bulky-enough water pokemon can also get 2KO'd (one hit on the switch) by Thunder Fang or Espeed. Iron Head gives basic Rock type coverage, and can be useful against Ice pokemon if I want to avoid recoil. Venusaur (M) @ Choice Specs Trait: Overgrow EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Leaf Storm - Sludge Bomb - Hidden Power [Ground] - Energy Ball One of my trademarks: specs Venusaur. Leaf Storm makes love to the opponent's pokemon. Unless there is a resistance, only dedicated special walls will survive the second hit, even though it's less powerful. Energy ball is there in case I need it when Venusaur is my last poke, and he has to muscle through more than one pokemon - this is a rare occurence, since I tend to bring him out early to spread damage. Still, it's a better option than Sleep Powder on a specs set and might come in handy some time - I'd only go Sleep Powder with Scarf, which has the speed to actually pull off "Sleep and Run". Specs would be more like "get KO'd while trying to sleep". now for my absolute favourites. Smogon has almost no say here, since they never have proper NU sets. NU: Entei @ Choice Band Trait: Pressure EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Flare Blitz - ExtremeSpeed - Stone Edge - Iron Head look familiar? yep, this is more or less the same as Arcanine above, courtesy of the event moves. Losing Flash Fire, which was so integral to Arcanine's success, and also the difference in Base Attack, makes me play this differently. The addition of Stone Edge makes this set a more effective damage dealer than Arcanine's, since now good prediction can actually net me an OHKO, while it would only net me 2KOs or free switches before. Iron Head is, again, Rock type coverage, quite necessary in NU. Victreebel (M) @ Choice Specs Trait: Chlorophyll EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def) - Leaf Storm - Sucker Punch - Sludge Bomb - Hidden Power [Ice] look familiar again? Not as similar as Entei and Arcanine, but Victreebel bears similarities to Venusaur. This beast is unexpected, since Victreebel has been trademarked as a Chlorophyll poke. In NU, the combination of Victreebel's base attacking stats (105 Atk/100 Sp.Atk/70 Spe) is not easy to come by. They might seem lacklustre compared to OU pokes like mence, but in NU, stuff that can actually switch into Victreebel's choiced moves is limited. With its speed, it outspeeds most pokemon that threaten it. It's moves more or less always KO before it can be KO'd. STAB specs Leaf Storm is as dangerous as Venusaur's - perhaps even more so in an environment with weaker pokemon. Sludge Bomb is a more reliable STAB, and HP Ice catches some fliers off guard. Sucker Punch probably made you think I'm mad, but Victreebel's base attack stat is actually higher than it's Sp.Atk. Sucker Punchers are invaluable in NU, cause they can revenge kill Espeon. Sucker Punch is also unexpected on Victreebel, and he can finish off weakened pokes who might otherwise switch out at the face of other, more obvious Sucker Punch users for a free switch and hope for a role later on. Victreebel was always one of my favourite pokes, and I'll rarely make a NU team without it, now that I've found how usable it can be. To close this off, I'll give my opinion about choice items. In a Nutshell: Choice Band is cool. Choice Specs is broken. Choice Scarf is gay. Everything was intentional. Think of the actual items. Ok, not really. More seriously. Band and Specs require prediction, and they require proper team support. You don't just slap them on a pokemon and expect to do truckloads of damage. You need scouts, and revealing banded/speced pokemon early is bad, since your opponent can easily outwit you and you will be helpless, and your choice user will end up KO'd. You won't always predict perfectly; that's why it's recommended that the team can handle a mispredict. If you Fire Blast with Heatran and the opponent switches in Suicune, make sure your team is not steamrolled by CM suicune, cause he will get a free CM as you switch out, etc. I only started using band/specs lately, because it requires experience I did not have before - I felt safer with LO too. But those pesky LO users really don't do the kind of damage choiced pokemon do. The difference might seem small, but it is not. Not to mention, wearing a (Choice) Band or Glasses (Specs) is cool and manly. I have a completely different opinion of scarf. I find it to be the complete opposite of the other two. You just slap scarf on something, switch it in after something else is dead, kill. That's more or less what scarf is. Certainly, you can try and predict a switch to hit the incoming pokemon harder. But in the end, you switched in "freely", and switch out equally "freely", with no danger to the scarfed pokemon - the damage is all handled by the poor buggers that accompany it. I also find them weak - most scarfers rely on SE hits to do any kind of damage. Scarf Flygon is one of my most hated pokemon, cause all it can do is hit and run, and really, it doesn't even do any damage - Flygon's U-Turn against Defensive Celebi (4x Damage) does around 50%, while in contrast, CB Scizor OHKOs. I call that fail. Scarf Jirachi is the same - relies on the flinches to actually kill something. Moreover, Real Men don't wear scarfs. They look gay. I'll only admit Heatran would look cool in a Scarf, and he's actually the only scarfer I like using. I hope people will find my post useful and they will get their own ideas about how to use choice items ^^
Well, I try to avoid Smogon when making any movesets, but the one I'm about to post is probably one, lol. I'm not so good at OU(and, by extension, don't really play against great battlers), but I have a set that tends to work for me: Lucario@Choice Specs Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Speed/252 Sp. Atk/ 4 HP Modest nature (-attack/+Sp. Attack) -Aura Sphere -Hidden Power Ice -Shadow Ball -Vacuum wave/close combat This thing can hit a lot of pokemon extremely hard. Aura Sphere and shadow ball are unresisted together(right?), while HP ice is obviously for any dragons. The reason why I like this set is because everyone expects Swords Dance or a physical variant whenever he pops into play, causing a switch into a boosted special move. The surprise factor is great for picking off several of Lucario's counters if your prediction pays off. It can also switch into certain pokemon and ko because of Vacuum Wave. Sometimes I put Close Combat instead of Vacuum Wave for Blissey; it's enough of a threat to warrant it, but there are other pokemon that can take care of it. Vacuum Wave is preferred because of priority. And of course, you need to scout you're opponent's team; sending in any choiced pokemon before you see what it can be countered by ensures that he will be ko'd without getting an attack off. Or it will ease the opponent's prediction. In NU, the two choiced pokemon I like to use are Choice Band Kangaskhan and Choice Scarf Hitmanchan. "Why not Primeape or Medicham?" Because they're far too predictable. Everyone seems to have no clue about what to do when Hitmonchan comes out, and a scarf surprises people with how fast it gets. Plus, I like Hitmonchan better. Kangaskhan just plows through things with Return, EQ and Crunch. Scrappy is a godsend, as well.
Why doesn't Choice Specs Celebi have Trick in the OP? Thats one of the best things about Choice users (most of them) is their ability to trick items onto opposing walls, like Blissey, in the case of Celebi. edit: @ the above post, it is on smogon (lol) and Hidden Power [Rock] should be slashed with HP Ice if you wish to try to lure in Gyarados. I used Special Lucario (albeit with a Life Orb) once and it was awesome, its so great when Skarmory switches in and you get to 2HKO it with Aura Sphere. ^_^ edit2: Luck > Skill, starmie should (rather it NEEDS) trick over Psychic. yeah, its a cool STAB move, but letting Tyranitar get a free turn to sub, dd or pursuit you is pretty bad too. On the suspect ladder i was using a Choice Scarf Infernape with this: Infernape @ Choice Scarf 252 Atk / 252 Spe Adamant Nature -Close Combat -Flare Blitz -Stone Edge -U-Turn its p cool, basically a fast version of the cb ape set. it was an amazing late game cleaner and was awesome for suprising scarftars who thought they had me. it was annoying though because u-turn didnt have the same raw power that it had in the cb set.
If you are locked into a move that is not surf, and Ttar comes, you have to switch or Starmie dies (if he is Pursuit the problem is...big), so he gains a free turn, trick or not trick, and the damage he takes from thunderbolt and ice beam is nearly ridicolous
Well, you say that Luck mate. But think about it. You've given a T-tar Choice Specs. You've managed to lay down the hurt with STAB Surf, fearing Pursuit. And ultimately, Starmie has done something useful. As opposed to being locked into Psychic, so T-tar rapes your ass. Sorry mate, but I have to go with Oak here.
Uhm, i hope you to encounter a mixed ttar and you give him Choice Specs, then he procede to rape your team with Dark Pulse...that's what happened to me the last time i tried to trick choice specs to him. And without Psychic Machamp rapes you (it's bad to be raped by Machamp :<). Maybe Trick is the best choice, but it's up to you :D.
Okay mate, I really think that you're just arguing for the sake of it now. Such T-tars are rarely seen, and moreover, often carry Substitute, so Specs would screw them over a lot. Besides, is it REALLY that hard to counter a semi-special T-tar with Specs? But okay mate, fair enough. As you pointed out, it comes down to personal preference. And I have to admit that Psychic is a nice all-rounder.
I generally dislike using choiced pokémon because of the versitality that you lose, and only choose pokémon who keep parts of their versitality even when choiced or pokémon with such great utility and support that it's almost better choiced. You will only find me using choice scarf in very few of my teams, and only if absolutely necessary. It is so easy to set up on choice locked resisted attacks and especially scarfed ones as they do not get the power boost the other choice items give. If I ever have to use a scarfed pokémon on any of my teams I make certain it keeps its versitality somewhat by making it carry trick or else its utility would have to be the reason you make the team to begin with, meaning it have to be the core idea of the team making that pokémon scarfed. Tyranitar is a prime example of the latter category as with a scarf it will always kill Gengar and scarfed Rotom-h to ease a Lucario sweep. It can also work out great for stall teams locking all trickers into trick while killing off most common trickers with Pursuit. Speaking of which Starmie, Gengar and Jirachi are mostly the only other pokés I might use scarf on because of Trick. Trick desimates setup users, and is really helping against stall as you can pretty easy set up a sweeper against their scarf locked attack (you see what I mean?). Of these Jirachi is the one I use the most with its set of the 3 best utility moves I can get: Jirachi @ CS Serene Grace 4HP/252Atk/252Spe Jolly - Iron Head (The flinch has saved me enough times, I am never using Jirachi without this) - U-turn (One of the few reasons I am able to use choice items at all) - Trick (To get rid of the scarf) - Move needed to revenge kill, mostly Ice Punch Flygon also gets a mention with its U-turn and powerful STAB moves. It can check a lot of pokémon, but I am still hesitant to use it since it is still to easy to set up on by flyers/levitators or steels when it first does something else than U-turn. When it comes to band/scarf I rarely find a use for it, though I use them more than scarf. There are only three pokémon I can come up with from the top of my head in which I break my rule of banding/specing and those are Scizor, Tyranitar and Metagross. Scizor is mostly self-explanatory. It has a powerful priority attack checking oh so many pokémon, the most powerful U-turn and Pursuit which are all great utility moves. Tyranitar and Metagross are so immensely powerful I would consider them the only exceptions to my rule of band/specs, but besides their amazing power they still carry a lot of utility. Tyranitar has the strongest Pursuit in the game, even threatening Zapdoses (especially offensive ones!) and Metagross is like a Scizor of sorts carrying both Bullet Punch and Pursuit, but instead of U-turn it can Explode or Trick. All other choice band/specs users have to follow a rule for me to even think about putting them on a team. They have to make as much neutral coverage with two moves as possible, preferably keeping not having to use a third move to make perfect neutral coverage. The sole reason one would even consider using band/specs is to hit hard, and to hit hard when choiced you only need to hit for neutral. To ease prediction on myself (or guessing if early in the battle), not trying to hit for supereffective damage is beneficial, and not having to predict at all is even better. Let's take the example of Gengar. You know you will hit all steel pokemon hard with Focus Blast. There is no reason to try to go for super effective damage with HP Fire when there is a possibility a Tyranitar is coming in. Another example would be the Starmie debate going on now. To me Psychic is a viable move on specs Starmie because of its awesome neutral coverage, but with Hydro Pump/Surf and Thunderbolt you do not really need Psychic and if you do I would consider it over Thunderbolt as the second main option making a dual STAB combo, removing Ice Beam from the set. I would never play Starmie without trick just for the pure utility it is to criple a wall, or to lock a pokémon into an attack I can set up on. However I do rather like to use Life Orb on pokémon such as Starmie, Jolteon and Gengar over specs. They are pretty frail to begin with, and being able to switch moves make them really hard to wall, especially Starmie which with Recover and Natural Cure can heal up on Blissey. If tl:dr: - Choice scarf sucks if not trickable or U-turnable - LO/set up>Specs - Band = lol Scizor
Yeah, all of those are good abusers of choice sets. What about UU? Has anybody got any particuarly good UU Choice Item abusers? Please do post them below!
In UU, I use CB Toxicroak: Toxicroak@Choice Band 4HP/252atk/252spd Adamant Ability: Dry Skin ~ Cross Chop ~ Sucker Punch ~ Gunk Shot ~ Stone Edge This guy packs awesome power, able to 2HKO/OHKO most of UU. Also, with Venusaur and Milotic are the most used pokemon in UU, Toxicroak finds many opportunities to switch in on those 2 and start attacking. To demonstrate the power of BandedCroak, here are some calculations: 252 Adamant Choice Band Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 248/252 Bold Leftovers Milotic : 59.8% - 70.5% (2HKO) 252 Adamant Choice Band Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252/128 Calm Leftovers Venusaur : 77.5% - 91.5% (chance to OHKO after SR) 252 Adamant Choice Band Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252/252 Bold Leftovers Slowbro : 48% - 56.6% (chance to 2HKO after SR, and can 2HKO even without SR) 252 Adamant Choice Band Toxicroak Stone Edge vs. 252/252 Bold Leftovers Rotom : 43.8% - 51.6% (chance to 2HKO after SR) As you can see, Toxicroak fares well against most defensive pokemon, and can help make holes in opponent's team for another member to sweep. I also use this croak as a counter to some rain dancers such as Ludicolo, Gorebyss without Psychic, or Qwilfish.
Gunk Shot is an awesome move, completely underrated. Basically physical, poison type Thunder. In UU, I like this lil' fella with a Choice Band: Torterra@ChoiceBand Adamant 252 HP, 252 Attack Wood Hammer Stone Edge Earthquake Crunch Wow, what a powerhouse! Torterra has always been a favourite of mine, completely underrated in my opinion. Moltres switch ins are destroyed by Stone Edge, and everything else takes enormous amounts of damage. Only problem is that atrocious speed stat. Tsk.
The fact that you're relying on a 70% accurate move to even HOPE to actually get past the two best UU pokemon (Venusaur,Milotic) is a bit problematic, if you ask me... A miss can cost you a lot with these pokemon. More so with Slowbro and Uxie, who can OHKO you with STAB Psychic moves if you miss.
And, just to make sure it's known, Sudowoodo can do almost everything Torterra can do in NU (except absorb leech seed and sleep powder), so it also makes a fantastic CB user. It gets Wood Hammer and Explosion. What more can you ask?
Ambipom@ChoiceBand Jolli 252 Attack, 252 Speed Double hit Pursuit Brick Breack Ice punch What to say...double hit with STAB + Technician nearly reach Scizor's BP with something like 70 power, but...moltiplied x2, other moves are for coverage. I found this set to be very useful, and can seriously get down many enemies, a double hit from 448 of attack it's not funny to take ^^
Surely it'd be easier to use a full powered Return or Frustration? You lose 3 Base Power (considering Technician and both hits for Double Hit), which doubles to a whole 6 after STAB is taken into account, for double the PP and 100% accuracy instead of 90%. Low Kick should really be used over Brick Break. You lose 15 Base Power on Blissey, but you gain a hell of a lot more on things like Heatran, Metagross, Tyranitar, Swampert etc in OU, and Rhyperior, Aggron, Milotic, Registeel etc in UU. Pursuit is at 60 Base Power after Technician, or at 80 if the opponent switches out. Payback, however, is at 75 Base Power after Technician, or at 100 Base Power if you are somehow slower or hit a Pokemon as it switches in, which is what you'd rather do against most Ghosts. So, which one would you rather use? I'd go for Payback. Ice Punch is really only useful for those Pokemon that are 4x weak to it or are 2x weak to it and resist Normal. However, most Pokemon that fit that latter catergory are weak to either of your Dark or Fighting moves. I'd suggest putting either Fake Out (for STAB Technician boosted priority, despite only working once) or U-turn (my recommendation) over it. After my suggestions, and correcting any other errors you may have made, here is what Ambipom would look like: Ambipom (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Return - Payback - Low Kick - U-turn / Fake Out Of course, you can ignore my suggestions, but I think you'd find that my changes would have made it work better. Key word in that sentence is think.
I agree with oak. Using a 30 base power move competitivley may seem cool but that 90% accuracy will piss you off eventually. Frustration has a very little power drop, which I doubt you lose signifigant ko's on. And don't use fake out on a choice set -.-
It's base 35, destinybond. If it was base 30, it'd end up at 90 power max after Technician and counting both hits, so Return would be the more powerful option anyway.
My bad, i was on my phone and didn't think anyone would bother to correct me since it's not integral to my post. Oh well, I guess it is the Internet. I would also like to add this choice set to the group Blissey@Choice Scarf Serene Grace Jolly(+speed,-sp. Atk) 252 attack, 252 speed, 4 defense Headbutt Rock Slide/Rock Smash Iron Tail/Secret Power Fire Punch/Ice Punch/ThunderPunch This set takes advantage of Blisseys lesser used ability. With 119 atk and 343 speed this can be an annoying serene grace user. Headbutt is the main attack here, and at 105 base power with a 60% flinch chance I'm sure you can understand why. Rock Slide is another option if they resist normal and are not steel type, or you can use Rock Smash to lower their defense with a 100% chance. Next is iron tail which has a 60% chance of lowering targets defense, or Secret Power which has a 20% para chance. I use Iron Tail. Next is the elemental punch of your choice. I use Fire Punch to get the super effective hit on steels. I go Jolly to outspeed Adamant Choice Scarf Blissey I hope you enjoy the set, I spent alot of time on it.
rock smash would also be an option on the scarfed blissey as to the fact that there would be a 100% chance of lowering defence
That is a very good point bobbert, I'll edit that into the post. Meztis, secret power is based on location, not weather, and it's a 20% chance not 60%.
Check the effect rate at this here link. You can also check it here. Here's a third location to check. Finally, a fourth location to check. All of those say it's a 30% chance before Serene Grace, making it a 60% chance. wat
Blissey is certainly an interesting Serene Grace abuser. Whilst not sporting outright power (lol, understatement), there are a few moves it can use to its advantage, for sure. For example, Water Pulse has a nice confusion rate after Serene Grace, which is nice. Thunder has a 60% chance of paralysis, which means that a Rain Dance Blissey is viable (to an extent). But if we're talking about Serene Grace abuse, then why the fuck would we not talk about Dunsparce? He's often forgotten, but actually, he's quite bulky, and has Thunder Wave to bring his opponent's down a peg or two. It's always funny to flinch Groudon to death with Scarfsparce =)
Yeah, although Jirachi and Togekiss are better generally, Dunsparce doesnt have that Magnezone-please-kill-me ticket, or a SR weakness, and moreover using Dunsparce is really fun. Imagine KO your opponent's 100% Dialga with Headbutt Dunsparce, it will make your day hehe :D
He meant that Dunsparce, being a normal type, isn't trapped by Magnezone's Magnet Pull, as Jirachi is, and the weakness to SR is typical of Togekiss (i think).
I'm not big on using UU/NU in OU but here's a set I like to toy around with in OU Manectric @ Choice Scarf Trait: Static EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Thunderbolt - Overheat/Flamethrower - Hidden Power [Ice] - Switcheroo Ok, so with base 105 speed, Manectric can check a lot of the OU metagame when equipped with a Choice Scarf. Salamence, Flygon, Infernape, Starmie, and the list goes on. It may seem tempting to use Raikou or Jolteon to do this but Manectric has 2 very solid advantages. Overheat, and Switcheroo. Overheat is great for doing big damage to common walls such as Celebi, Jirachi, and Bronzong. Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball from Scarfed Raikou or Jolteon(their best options against this threats) is doing pitiful damage and is easily switched into. Switcheroo allows you to cripple the likes of Blissey and prevents you from being easily walled as no wall will like taking a Scarf. Unfortunately Manectric lacks the Special Bulk Raikou and Jolteon making it much harder to switch in.
Interesting. Manetris is certanly popular further down the tiers. I'll try it in OU, then get back to you.
I use a similar Specs manectric set, with HP grass and Signal beam. It was not very impressive, but it was not a complete failure either.