[HGSS] Joined in Matrimony

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Sleuth, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Hihi all!
    Another (hopefully) interesting thread for you guys to contemplate over. I was making a new team, when I began to consider great duo's in the metagame which could work together. The most infamous of these is SkarmBliss, perhaps the most compact defensive partnership since the dawn of Pokemon. And I was wondering; do you wonderful people have any favourites? Any Pokemon pairings which work well together? They can be offensive or defensive, and can include more than two Pokemon if you like (but please, not entire teams). Here's an interesting partnership I found:

    Porygon2@Leftovers
    252 Hp, 252 Sp.attack, 4 defense
    Modest nature
    Ability;Trace
    Recover
    HP Ground
    Tri Attack
    Ice Beam

    And

    RotomH@Leftovers
    252 HP, 252 Sp.attack, 4 sp.def
    Modest nature
    Ability; Levitate
    Thunderbolt
    Overheat
    Will O Wisp
    Shadow Ball

    Sounds odd, but these guys make quite the team. HP Ground is there to help with Heatran, who is stumped by P2 after Trace turns to Flash Fire. When the inevitable Swampert or Infernape appears, Rotom can (to an extent) deal with them. Choiced Nape's are fodder, and the non choiced ones are dealt with my Thunderbolt after previous damage. In short, these guys make an interesting combo.

    So, now it's your turn. Any combo's you think work? Please post below!

    +) (Patented 'Evil Clown' Smiley)
     
  2. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    Not to put a damper on your iodea, but why Porygon2 instead of PorygonZ? And why RotomH over, say, RotomC? Porygon2 only has 20 more Sp. Def than PZ, so unless you're using them for tanking purposes I'd suggest PZ. I also find that RotomC is best against Swampert, where Leaf Storm KO's it instantly.

    I have no combos of my own. I find that tanks go well with tanks of the opposite defensive style, while walls go well with sweepers or strong scouts. I think that Machamp and Claydol cover each other well; between them, they share no weaknesses, and while Claydol isn't very strong defensively, its two immunities and four resistences complement Machamp's type and fightying style well. For reference, here are those twos set on my team;

    Claydol @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Explosion
    - Ice Beam

    Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - DynamicPunch
    - Substitute
    - Payback
    - Stone Edge
     
  3. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Porygon 2 has Trace, which lets it switch in on Heatran, Vaporoen, Salamence, Gyradoes and Electivire with impunity. Rotom H can take Scizor more easily. I like the Machamp and Claydol combo, but there's a big problem with Celebi and other special attackers.
     
  4. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Better than Skarmbliss: Cloysterice

    Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Rock Blast
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Regice @ Leftovers
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def (or SDef aswell, it depends on you xD)
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Amnesia
    - Curse
    - Charge Beam
    - Ice Beam

    Unbreakable, 420 def + 430 Sp. def really shines, even if this "combo" is weak to rock T_T
     
  5. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Wow, nice combo mate. I'm not too sure about the typing issues, but looking past that, this could definetly be effective in the lower tiers.
     
  6. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, if it wasn't for the type, it would be great! Maybe Slowbro over Cloyster, or Weezing, to have more type coverage
     
  7. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Luck>Skill, why not use a nature that lowers attack on your Regice, since...you arent using attack
    I have an offensive combo id like to share which has perfect type combination between them: Kingdra and Scizor

    Scizor (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Def / 16 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bug Bite
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance

    Kingdra (F) @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Now to explain it. The Scizor set is pretty self explanitory, but the EVs may not be. I use this combo as offensive types that cover each others weaknesses, so scizor needs more defensive EVs to help with the Outrages and the like aimed at Kingdra. Kingdras set IS one you havnt seen before(unless you played me or someone who copied my idea) The moves are there for coverage and power, but you may be like WTF when you see Focus Sash. Once rocks are spun away, and any of my pokemon are killed by a dragon(Mence, Flygon, Kingdra, Dragonite, even Altaria) Kingdra switches in and they think they have an easy kill. They get me down to ONE HP and i return KO them. The things they say are hilarious. Life orb is for the people that dont like my idea
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  8. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    I actually do know how effective these guys are together. On rain teams, they can be freaking unstoppable, as after Kingdra softens up the potential counter, Scizor steps in to finish it off. Nice original sets, destinybond, with interesting EV Spreads.
     
  9. Erebos

    Erebos Banned

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    destiny, if you're using Swords Dance, Brick Break is the better option to not hinder your sweep on your own.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any particularly awesome combos of my own to share, even though people might not believe it at first. I have yet to create something COMPLETELY original and spectacular at the same time.
     
  10. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Gold, i find that not happening with scizor, as i dont generally go for a sweep with it, and if i do, its a late game bullet punch sweep in which +1 is just as good as +2
     
  11. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Tbh, I prefer BB over Superpower, just because it gets more or less the same KO'es with SR up. But whatever, destiny.
     
  12. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    after a SD, Superpower kills opposing scizors, while brick break does not
     
  13. Darkness

    Darkness DN

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    Agility Metagross owns this combo of Register...? Regice and Cloyster xd
     
  14. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Agility Metagross doesnt exist in UU. Actually, no Metagross exist at all. :D
     
  15. Erebos

    Erebos Banned

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    don't need to be agility metagross. Aggron or Rhyperior can do the same thing with rock polish, with STAB Rock moves which are SE against Cloyster as well.
     
  16. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Nevermind Rock Polish. Neither of those Pokemon can really even graze Aggron due to his Steel typing. Rhyperior only has to bother about Ice Beam, which can easily be avoided by running at least 28 Speed EVs. It doesn't come close to OHKOing either.
     
  17. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    All the same guys, give him some credit; it's an interesting idea. I do worry about the typing though, since Cloyster is hardly covering anything for Regice. This might work on a hail team, but tbh, there are better options...
     
  18. Astruvis

    Astruvis Banned

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    Add lucario then xP
     
  19. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    With Sandslash over Cloyster it could be a strong NU combo. Of course, that sacrifices some defense, and makes predicting harder around water types, but the amount of Pokemon that could get through it could probably be counted on one hand (Wallrein being one of them).

    Anyway, as far as I see it, tag team combos aren't as strong as they look. Sure, Skarmbliss and Electivire/Gyarados are both great combos, but outside of those I wouldn't expect anything to really 'wow' me.
     
  20. Wish

    Wish New Member

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    IMO this is a great combo

    Breloom@Toxic Orb
    -Focus Punch
    -Spore
    -Substitute
    -Leech Seed

    Slowbro@Leftovers
    -Slack Off
    -Surf/Psychic
    -Ice Beam
    -Flamethrower/Psychic

    Basically, these resist all types except flying(never seen), bug(scizor gets nailed by flamethrower), and dragon. (depends on the dragon...)

    It's a really great combination!
     
  21. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Meh, it's okay. Celebi RUINS it though, especially versions with HP Fire, which means that you can't even switch in your Scizor to try and bring it down.
     
  22. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Member

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    I was thinking last night and I came up with this UU combo:

    Scyther @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bug Bite
    - Aerial Ace
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    Lanturn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 40 HP / 76 Def / 140 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    - Thunder Wave
    - Confuse Ray

    These two cover each others weaknesses near perfectly. Grass or ground attacks fired at Lanturn are easily taken care of by Scyther's Bug/Flying typing, taking 25% from grass and nothing from ground attacks. In return Lanturn happily sponges electric, fire, and ice attacks aimed at Scyther. The only thing this perfect duo is missing is a rock and flying resistance which Scyther hates, but Lanturn can use either surf or T-Bolt on rock, or flying types for super effective damage.
     
  23. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Thing is mate, while it seems reasonable, you have to think about the UU metagame in greater analysis. The main Lanturn counter there atm, the big one, is probably something like Specstile (if it can come in without being paralyzed), which with correct prediction, can break Scyther like a twig, or Lanturn for that matter. But the main issue is that your Scyther is a sweeper, like most of them, and will not get too many chances to heal. Try it if you like, but talking from experience here, this will most likely give you mediocre results =(
     
  24. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Electric resists Flying, so it's only Rock.
    The main problem this "perfect duo" has is Scyther's frailty, especially taking in Stealth Rock damage.
     
  25. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Exactly. However, having tested this set, I believe that actually, it could work to help Scyther set up, as Lanturn can paralyze faster problems for Scyther and confuse them to give it time to SD.
     
  26. AndyRease

    AndyRease Member

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    If you are talking about Breloom it makes a nice combo/half of a team with your choice of Heatran and whichever bulky water you like. Depending on your sets of all three pokemon they make for a good offensive and defensive combination. When it comes to choices of bulky waters Vaporeon is great for passing wishes and taking on Gyarados, Lanturn has awesome resistances and stops most special attackers in their tracks (especially Starmie), Gyarados can bring some immediate power or be really really bulky and Suicune can set up or tank some hits and what not. Haven't tried Slowbro yet, though even with its amazing resistances I believe its not really OU viable.
     
  27. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Well, we aren't talking about Loom, but whatever. We were actually talking about UU, so Gyra and Vappy are not viable. In OU though, all of the Pokemon you mentioned work very well. And by the way, Slowbro is very viable in OU.
     
  28. AndyRease

    AndyRease Member

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    Ah I know nothing of UU so I merely skipped it that part of the thread. I posted as an answer to the Breloom/Slowbro combo as it really doesn't bring forth the strong points of Breloom at all. However I promise to read up on the UU part as soon as I feel I have gotten some general knowledge on the tier ;)

    Well I admit I was wrong in saying Slowbro not viable in OU, but whenever I have used it doesn't take long before Vaporeon or Suicune takes it place. The only real reason I can see to use him is if you have to use the same counter for Machamp and Gyarados while having a second switch in for DDMence if you are afraid of your main switch in/check will be taken out ot worned down too easily. I mean, a physical wall who lets Scizor and Tyranitar, the two most common choice banders in OU, easily switch in on it and threaten with it with their STABs is not to my liking. Atleast Vaporeon can pass Wishes. But if you have better experiences with it, or yo know something I don't when it comes to Slowbro usage go ahead. I would love to be able to use it's awesome resistances in any of my teams.
     
  29. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Thing is mate, you made one incorrect point there. To quote, 'I mean, a physical wall who lets Scizor and Tyranitar, the two most common choice banders in OU, easily switch in on it and threaten with it with their STABs is not to my liking.' That, my friend, is primarily because you are playing it wrong. Slowbro has access to Flamethrower and Fire Blast, both of which make toast of Scizor, and with Thunder Wave, it can get the jump on the metal mantis. Thunder Wave also cripples T-tar, and if you end up in a bad situation, whereby you know that your opponent is running Pursuit, you can paralyze and severly injure the opponents T-tar before going down. Your opponent will then normally have a T-tar at 30% health or less which is paralyzed- basically, set up bait for, persay, SD Lucario.

    Sorry about the mix up with Breloom, I didn't read it properly. I reccomend you try running Slowbro with Flamethrower and Thunder Wave.
     
  30. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    I have a trio that I want to share with you ^^

    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 132 Spd / 124 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Leech Seed

    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Roar

    Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Flamethrower
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Explosion

    The beauty of this group is that they can come in on each other's counter, for example, Heatran can switch in the Celebi that Breloom and Swampert fear (Celebi wont TWave me because Swampert and Breloom are immune to it), Swampert can switch in the Fire attacks aiming at Breloom or the Ground attacks aiming at Heatran, and Breloom can deal with the bulky waters Swampert and Heatran fear.

    With these movesets, almost nothing can easily handle the group. 252HP and 124 Spdef ensure that Breloom's Substitute won't be broken by Vaporeon and Suicune's Surf most of the time, and hence its subs can survive weak, resisted special attack from most wall. This is very beneficial because Swampert and Heatran mean a free switch-in for the water pokes, and then I can easily set Breloom up before those water pokes. From there, you guys all know how annoying Breloom can be :P Swampert can set SR, and check many threats that Breloom and Heatran cannot hanldle such as DDMence. And finally, Scarftran can check the mix sweepers that make threaten Swampert and Breloom such as Infernape or Salamence, and it can also revenge kill LO Starmie in a pinch :)
     
  31. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Sigh... Breloom is such a noob Pokemon. I mean, it just is. Anything that makes your opponent think, right, something on my team WILL be going to sleep now is never going to be anything BUT noobish. But other than that, yeah, nice combo.
     
  32. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Try this in NU

    Torkoal @ Leftovers
    EVs: HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    Relaxed Nature
    ~ Will-O-Wisp/Rapid Spin
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Overheat
    ~ Explosion

    Mantine @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
    Calm Nature
    ~ Surf
    ~ Hidden Power Flying
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Toxic

    Only strong rock attacks can kill this, Torkoal has a great defenses and lure in Water and Earthquake, both resisted or absorbed by Mantine, which has also a great special defense, a third pokemon is needed for the weakness to rock, but this 2 pokemons are a nice combo
     
  33. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Nice one Luck ^^

    NU is certainly a fascinating metagame to explore. Any tier where Regice is viable is cool with me =)
     
  34. AndyRease

    AndyRease Member

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    Platinum yes just yes, that is exactly it! A Breloom used that way is oh so more potent than the standard set that needs to come in on something slower. A beatiful half of a team.

    Sleuth I do not really consider being paralyzed as being crippling to Scizor and Tyranitar, except DDTar of course. CBTar would be overjoyed by it seeing as it now cannot be burnt or poisoned and the same somewhat goes for Scizor though he cannot be poisoned and the only time I have ever been burned as a Scizor is by BaitGar which is fairly uncommon. However sleep inducing moves are now free switch in for both so that too is something that supports getting your Tar atleast and maybe your Scizor paralyzed. Also a Slowbro with T-Wave and Flamethrower is going to have to give up on two of either Surf, Psychic and Ice Beam and flamethrower would really only be for Scizor who comes in on the switch as if you switch in to it it is probably locked into something which won't damage you at all. This makes it's coverage even worse which again makes Suicune or Vaporeon a better choice, in my opinion of course. However if used with Trick Room it does something neither of the two can, though I believe Slowking does that better as it can work as a stand alone sweeper with NP.

    At regards to this comment:

    Where is your competetive spirit? It is obviously allowed into OU so it is not "noobish" to use it seeing as it is a quite effective pokemon. Noobish would be to use something complitely unviable such as Spinda (though it is quite fun to to try to make it win your battles) or something completely overrun by a better pokemon such as DDGatr where DDGyara is just more effective. If you cannot use the viable pokemon because it's "cheap" you are hardly a competetive player am I not right? If you do not play for the competetive value, but for fun I can understand your remark of frustration though.
     
  35. Luck>Skill

    Luck>Skill Well-Known Member

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    Not really, the good battler is the one who, even with an inferior team can win...it's easy to use a MixMence...it's little more difficult to use a Luxray(little example). It's easy to win with Ubers against NU (well sometimes NU wins, this depends from the battlers), but i think a battler is more skilled if he wins in OU with a NU team (even if some NU pokemons are better than OU ones)
     
  36. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    He means noobish as needing no skill to use, not being a horrid pokemon, which is totally true. There is never a point of "what move should I use" with breloom.

    Edit: dam, ninja'd
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  37. AndyRease

    AndyRease Member

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    Ah yes, you could say that, though in my honest opinion the best battlers are those who resides on the top of ladders and tournaments. And if you can do this by using NU/NFE pokemon then all the more props to you, but in my experience you really rarely see anything other than OU and some UU on top notch teams (even most OU is never seen in the hands of the best players). But I guess this is different opinons coming from different values to what a great battler is. I do see your point though even if I do not agree with it.

    I see now where Sleuth is coming from now thanks to destinybond, though there is a lot of different ways using Breloom, and even if a noob might get a lot of success by throwing a Breloom on his team the best Breloom users gear him toward them teams need (even if it's just the standard set). Forexample, if your team is made correctly you should be able to set Breloom up with a substitute on a resisted attack which will not break the substitute. This let you save the Spore for later to stop the real threat to Breloom which switch in after you have gotten your sub up, or killed whatever pokemon was in.

    Considering the argument of a 100% reliable sleeping move, there is a reason sleep clause was invented and that was without spore in the metagame, and would you consider a guy winning with a Parasect which is an NU pokemon a skilled player or a noob in that regards?

    Also I might sound very harsh in my writing and I apologize for that, but English is not my first language and this is the only kind of English I know. I hope I haven't hurt anyones feelings because that was never my intention!
     
  38. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    I know what you mean by that. It's hard to use a team of UUs in OU, where one of the best reasons to do it is the element of suprise. Although on breloom I used to use a non orthodox set of spore, focus punch, seed bomb andach punch. Not to ddifferent but different nonetheless.
     
  39. Platinum

    Platinum ~tilde~

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    Yeah... Breloom may be cheap, but nonetheless a very effective pokemon. I don't think it is noobish, it can be beaten in several ways. But I think this matter is about personal opinion, so no point trying to defy each other.

    Btw, Luck, I did several NU battles today, and almost 1 out of 2 battles I see your combination, it's just ... lol ... =))
     
  40. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Well, you know, I guess a Pokemon is only noobish depending on how it is played. To give an example, I often run a Breloom set of Swords Dance, Mach Punch, Seed Bomb and Stone Edge/Sky Uppercut. This Breloom holds a Life Orb, which makes it quite potent after Swords Dance. Now this set is much easier to deal with than the standard; in fact, I'd go as far to say that it is much less effective than the standard. But when I use it, I feel a little bit better for beating someone through more original means than sleep, sub and sodomise with Focus Punch.