Can't believe there isn't already something about this. Spoiler Arceus: Base 120 Everything BST: 720[/HIDE] Arceus is regarded by many to be the best Pokemon in the game. With a base 120 Power STAB, Multitype to...change its type, and solid walling and attacking capabilities, the thing just pwns. It can have CM Judgement, or can run SD and E-Speed to break through anything(not named Giratina :(). Also, it can run a mixed wallbreaking set. Possibly a tank set could work, as it has high speed with large defensive stats. I'm not good at writing, so I won't say anything more. Discuss.
TBH, Arceus-Steel with this moveset is the all Uber team breaker if used correctly: CM/ Roar/ Recover/Judgement. And the EV spread: 252 Sp Atk. 252 HP/ 4 Spd. If you use this Arceus: 1. No TS recoil as its type is Steel. 2. With no EV's on Speed, it can outspeed any wall that tries to use WW, Roar or Dragon Tail; so it can use Roar to switch them out perfectly. 3. I think it's a good Late Game Sweeper for stalls that lack a Fighting type Scarfed sweeper (Terrakion) or Kojondo... Terrakion can't OHKO it with CC cause of the bulkyness if it ha +60% HP.
I kinda wish this thread had more info. Well, Arceus-Ghost is arguably the most unpredictable one. What's it going to do? Is it EKiller? Is it CM? Is it Support? Steel-ceus is quite nice too, and I'm seeing Grass-ceus rising in popularity because of Ferrothorn.
I don't see how Ferro contributes to Grass Arceus usage. Twave will still cripple it. Grass Arceus is generally a good counter to the two weather inducers (frankly, that's the only reason I'd use it).
arceus is a boss E-speed Killer is easily the most used set (for the reasons behind this hit the link in my Sig, Steel and Ghost are the other two that really shine in Ubers. I'll add more to this Later.
normal extremekiller arceus is easily the most popular set as it is (arguably) the best priority abuser in the game. Some other types are rising in usage lately due to some players realising that can very effectively forfill certain roles on some teams. Steel arceus with WoW is a very sturdy wall and ghost arceus can play a large variety of roles (the most successful set I've seen is a bulky spin blocker, although I've also seen extremekiller and calm mind variants, among others). Another type that hasn't been mentioned yet is rock. In sand, rock arceus as exceptional bulk and can potentially stall a large number of pokemon. Although it would be weak to the two uber weather inducers, which is most likely a reason for its low usage. A possible set might look like: Arceus @ stone plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 SDef Careful Nature (+SDef/ -SAtk) - Will-o-wisp - Recover - Rock Slide - Extremespeed/Swords Dance/Filler The special defense boost from sandstorm combined with will-o-wisp and recover makes this Arceus very hard to take down without switching the weather. Calm mind/Judgment can also be used without a special attack lowering nature to make arceus almost invincible on the special side. Aside from the above, Arceus can obviously act in countless other roles, depending on what your team needs. Another set that I have seen multiple times on the DW uber ladder is lead arceus with Stealth Rock. I've even seen a couple of Perish Song users to aid against baton pass teams.
Let's not forget Poison Arceus. It absorbs Toxic Spikes upon switching in, which are commonly seen in Ubers, a very valuable asset for stall teams and offensive teams alike.
imo poison arceus is a bit outclasses by tentacruel in ubers (lolwat). As well as absorbing those darn toxic spikes, tentacruel can also lay them down, and even spin away the other hazards. Cruel also does a decent job of taking some of the most powerful special attacks in the uber environment. However, even taking all this into account, Arceus still has much higher defensive stats, and can potentially function as an offensive threat as well. But I think other arceus types would be much better off doing that.
My Arceus setup is: Normal w/ leftovers 252 Def, Spec Def + Attack, - Spec. Attack - Cosmic Power - Swords Dance - Earthquake - Extremespeed If you lead with this and get a cosmic power off, you'll be able to deal with most Dialga's/Palkia's/Mewtwo's/Kyogre's/Groudon's with ease. One slight problem with this set is that it can't touch Giratina.
That isn't a "slight" problem. The other guy sends in Giratina-O and you're more or less finished. This is kind of the reason you need to run Shadow Claw/Shadow Force on EKiller sets.
That's not to mention the horrible weakness to Toxic and Toxic Spikes, which will prevent you from setting up fully and will result in you losing Arceus. Still with the proper support (Tyranitar for Pursuit trapping Giratina, Forretress or Tentacruel for Rapid Spinning and Toxic Spikes, fatBliss or fatChans for status healing and Wish passing), I suppose the above set could work. Just not very well. Oh, and Shedinja walls it.
Why don't we discuss Ghostceus? Currently, most Arceus-Norm are Adamant with a Silk Scarf, able to cause heavy damage with Extremespeed, set up with Swords Dance, and have Brick Break and/or Shadow Claw for additional coverage (though picking only one leaves you weak to either Giratina or Dialga...), and if they don't have both, they have Recover for random hits they will take from opposing Arceus. A good strategy. But it fails against this: Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 64 HP / 96 Def / 116 SAtk / 96 SDef / 136 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Will-O-Wisp - Recover - Judgment - Focus Blast Speed EV's enable it to outspeed all Adamant Arceus, allowing you to Will-o-Wisp and end their sweep. Focus Blast and Judgement [Ghost] give you perfect coverage, meaning you can hit both Ghostceus and Normceus, as well as Steelceus if it turns up. And the Physical sweeper killer... Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 180 HP / 96 Def / 96 SDef / 136 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Perish Song - Whirlpool - Will-O-Wisp - Recover This set utilizes Perishtrapping, which works well if you can pull it off. Will-O-Wisp means you stop Extremekilling Arceus from setting up, Whirlpool is for residual damage (keeping Lugia away from 100% health) as well as trapping stuff as you stall them to death. Perish Song is for immediate use after Whirlpool, meaning that if they aren't dead yet, you switch on the third turn and they die. You can even switch on the second turn, allowing you a free boost/Substitute/Entry-Hazard/whateveryouwant on your switch-in, as they either switch or are KO'd. You can even Pursuit them for the lulz. Recover is to heal off residual damage from hazards, random attacks they use, passive damage like Hail/Sandstorm, or status damage like Poison/Burn. EV's are kinda random, but they work, giving Arceus a mixed 300 defense and enough speed to outrun all +atkstat Arceus/Base120's.
I'm so going to test that physical sweeper killer set out XD. It looks a bit gimmicky but I'll feel pro if I can pull it off.
It always makes me feel nervous when an Arceus-N is out, but TBH I've never had problems with it. XD It sometimes manage to do some big damage, but with Groudon's T-Wave and Dragon Tail and Giratina in general, I've always handled it well. Currently using 1996's Arceus-Steel. The amount of switchins I get is amazing, and despite the fact that I'm running it under Sun and that I always get seriously haxed somehow (crit at +5. .-.), it almost always ends up dealing some major damage. I can switch it in on Scarfed Outrages from various Dragons, Choiced Ice Beams and the like from Kyogre, whatever, and begin to setup Calm Minds. It's amazing how easy it is. XD Only a few Pokemon can ever 2HKO it (since I run 252 Def/Bold), and after a long enough period of time you CAN'T wall it. I've 2HKOd Blissey with it.
i use a fire variant: Arceus@Flame Plate Nature: Timid EVs: 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP Moves: Judgement Solarbeam Ice Beam Earth Power Under the sun I sweep at least 3 pokemon with it. Its got amazing coverage, and under the sun it can hit anything hard. Plus its totally unexpected.
Ghost arceus is totally noobproof. They always use fighting moves on it. I like the sd set, usually ghost type. :D
Gonna add my two cents since this popped up. Arceus @ Iron Plate Trait: Multitype Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe Moveset: - Swords Dance - Substitute/Earthquake - Iron Head - Extremespeed Checks E-killer and walls the ones lacking Earthquake/Brick Break. Sets up on half the metagame with a substitute. Outrages are its best friend. This is the spread I used because I'm simple-minded when it comes to EVs, but feel free to add more bulk. With a +4 Extremespeed (and you will get to +4), Speed is less of a concern. Iron Head can smash past even Dialga, Ferrothorn and Jirachi with enough boosts (and you will get enough boosts). Unstoppable when played well; pretty much the best type for a bulky sweeper with all those resistances. Appreciates rain support, especially since a Thunder-packing teammate can roast Skarmory, the only thing that gives Steely trouble. Lastly, got me to the top 20 after like a week of playing Ubers. So it comes highly recommended.
No one's mentioned Dark Arceus yet? Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Judgment - Refresh - Recover Best stallbreaker in Ubers. In fact, stall teams auto-lose to it unless they have Snatch Blissey/Chansey, as they will be unable to prevent Dark Arceus from getting to +6. A +6 Dark Judgment will even do a heavy amount of damage to specially defensive Forretress, who resists the attack. From my experience, Snatch Blissey/Chansey is incredibly rare anyway and even if you do run into it, you shouldn't be keeping Dark Arceus in on it as Snatch Blissey/Chansey does terribly against literally everything but mono-attacking Calm Mind Arceus, including Dark Arceus. It does fairly well against offense as long as you can eliminate their Dark Arceus checks like Terrakion and Ho-Oh.
This isn't completely correct. Any good stall team will have at least 1-2 steels [dialga ,ferrothron, skarm, heatran, jirachi most noteable] who completely cockblock dark arceus [unless you run focus blast over Refresh / sub ]. You'll have to find a way to wear down or get rid of their steels first. It's also not un-common for stall teams to pack a sweeper like deoxy-a, darkrai, or arceus fighting [all three of these can beat dark arceus] But don't take this the wrong way, I'm not disagreeing with you xD. Dark Arceus is without a doubt the #1 stall breaker in ubers, I'm just saying that you have to watch out for a lot more threats other than snatch Chansey / Blissey.
That Arceus set is bad. Darkeus should be EVd very carefully, and your EVs are random. Also, Substitute is 100 times better than Refresh. Spoiler Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 204 HP / 120 Def / 164 SAtk / 20 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Judgment - Recover - Substitute[/HIDE]
Spoiler Refresh prevents Dark Arceus from getting worn down by Toxic Spikes, while Substitute does not. This means you will not have to use a spinner, especially since the only Rapid Spinner that doesn't get cockblocked by Ghost Arceus is Excadrill, and even then it needs a Swords Dance boost and I think it'll be losing if Ghost Arceus has Will-O-Wisp. Also, I don't see what your EV spread accomplishes, as with your spread, you will always lose to opposing Arceus rather than a Speed tie.
i still think that the sd arceus normal is one of the best arceus sets. mostly because it can kill a hell of a lot of the metagame at +2. also, beacuse it doesnt need a plate, you can have lefties or life orb to make it even better. also, one set i love to use is this one: 1488. (Arceus) @ Life Orb Trait: Multitype EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef) - Swords Dance - ExtremeSpeed - Overheat - Shadow Claw this set works really well. i noticed that skarm ALWAYS counters sd arceus so i looked at its moves and saw that it got overheat. the only thing that solidly counters this set is dialga, but it doesnt really switch into normal arceus beacuse of the fear of eq or brick break. also, if your opponent know that you have it then you can just sd on a switch and then sweep as it was meant to.
If you are gonna use Darkeus, you are obviously gonna bring a Toxic Spikes absorber/spinner with you. Substitute makes setting up 100 times easier and also stops Ferrothorn's Leech Seed. Also, your subs are not broken in one hit by neither Ferro's Power Whip or Blissey/Chansey's Seismic Toss. In this set, you need bulk and hitting power, not speed. With 20 Speed EVs, you are outspeeding all Base 90's with 252 EVs. And with that physical bulk, you are gonna beat SD Arceus on 1v1. If you still doubt, try using my set. It'll do wonders, I guarantee.
I've used stallbreaker Dark Arceus before, and I'd say that Rigas's EV Spread is the best. However, I always use 112 Speed EVs with a Jolly Nature on all my Arceuses in order to outspeed Jolly Garchomp and everything below it. Force of habit, I suppose. Always run Darkceus with Tentacruel to absorb Toxic Spikes.
Because of Toxic Spikes, I like to run Refresh over Substitute. Just food for thought; Refresh and Substitute are both viable.
From what I've seen in competitive battling, both Normal Arceus and Ghost Arceus are the best at doing what they do with minimal set-up, easily breaking through an entire team if you are not prepared. If you want set-up though, Grass is basically the way to go since Grass Arceus can take on everything except the Latis, Dragons (Gen V and IV, excluding Palkia. Ray too), and any Arceus that does not take a super-effective hit from Judgement. And that's without accounting for one last move if it has CM and Recover.
Nope. For one, Arceus-Grass lacks reliable STAB. Grass isn't a great typing offensively. It's also prone to Ice Beam, which is held on nearly every team. It's more likely Arceus-Grass will be killed before it gets the chance to set up. It's good against Ferrothorn, as you're immune to Leech Seed, but Ferrothorn can use Paralysis or Toxic, and if you want to counter that with Substitute/Refresh, that's wasting a moveslot, and leaves you with either Calm Mind / Judgment/Ice Beam / Refresh/Substitute / Recover or opting out Recover, for two attacking moves, in which case you're almost guaranteed to die as Mewtwo is faster and can hit with Psystrike and priority moves could finish you off. In my opinion, Arceus-Fighting is the best at Calm Minding, as its only counter is Mewtwo and Deoxys, and Mewtwo's Psystrike will definitely KO it. But other than that, Arceus Fighting has all it needs; Judgment kills of Ferrothorn, while Ice Beam can kill off all the Dragons and will be powerful enough to KO other types.
i only really think fightceus is good for countering darkceus, beacuse a lot of stuff in ubers resists or is immune to its judgement. whereas darkceus with subsitute can beat ferro and chansey and get to +6 +6 when doing that. the only things that counter it are terrakion and fight-ceus. the set i use is this: das is gut? (Arceus-Dark) @ Dread Plate Trait: Multitype EVs: 208 HP / 120 Def / 180 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Calm Mind - Judgment - Recover - Substitute the speed is to out-speed the latis and it can take gyro balls and power whips from ferro sometimes under 25% which means i can sub stall until gyro ball pp runs out or power whip misses. credit to storm phoenix for the ev's
Yes, Arceus-Dark is excellent, but Arceus-Fighting's Judgment is only resisted by the Deoxys formes who are extremely frail and Mewtwo, who you should get rid of before sending out Arceus-Fighting anyway. The only things immune to it are Giratina and Giratina-O, both who would go down with a simple Ice Beam. Arceus-Fighting gets super effective hits on both Chansey and Ferrothorn, which Darkceus doesn't.
true, but you forgot lugia resists arceus fighting's judgement. also, darkceus with sub can out stall chansey and ferrothorn anyway so there is that isnt an advantage to fight-ceus
And Ice Beam hits Lugia super effectively. And it actually is, would you rather have a chance beat the Pokemon quickly or have to stall out twenty turns to wait for it to die? Your choice.
i'd rather stall for 20 turns if it is certain i will come out of it with +6 +6 (which is what happens with ferro and chansey) also, fight-ceus carry ice beam? that means its harder to set up beacuse you won't have sub/refresh and if you do have it then you cant cm or recover. if you want to kill pokes quickly then just put focus blast on darkceus. also, dark pulse seems a better choice beacause its still hits lugia and giratina, but hits deoxys forms as well as mewtwo.
The Standard Arceus Fighting is CM / Recover / Judgment / Ice Beam. The only cm arceus forms that normally carry refresh / sub are the ones like dragon / dark / rock /, their STABS are great so it allows them to run a mono-attacker set and that frees up a slot for refresh / sub. The other arceus forms needs 2 attacks, or else they get walled too easily by certain pokemon. Ice beam is usually better than d.pulse because of its higher BP and specific coverage. D.pulse allows you to hit Psychics [which are uncommon], but the most common psychic, mewtwo, outspeeds and ko's you with psystrike anyway. Both are good options though. Setting up to +6 behind a sub with arceus dark and sweeping the opponent's entire team is not realistic. Ferrothorn sets up hazards on you, then something like roar dialga or skarm easily phazes you. Setting up on chansey is also a bad idea. It can take even +6 judgements and softboiled spam. Both softboiled and Judgment has 16 pp, and prediction works both ways. So by the time you're done with chansey, you're likely going to be nearly out of PP and unable to sweep your opponent's team. Arceus dark is a great stall breaker, but if you don't use it properly you won't get the effective results, unless you play bad opponents.
beacuse arceus-dark has so few counters, all you need to do is to eliminate them, then you can set up. at +6 arceus judgement does about 55% to a chansey in the last time i set up +6 +6 on it. of cource you cant sweep with darkceus every match but it does do well in quite a few situations, it has won me quite a few matches by itself. but i see what you are saying about ferro setting up, getting phazed and softboiled spam, but i didnt say that darkceus sweeps every match, i just overlooked some of its counters beacuse ive never had them have any trouble to me.
Your first point is the point I've been trying to get to you; Arceus-Fighting also has very few counters, the only ones being Mewtwo and Deoxys-A. Blimlax explained what I was going to say better than I probably could have.
The only real counters to Arceus-Fight is Mewtwo and Tentacruel (which can only wall it for so long). Your going to just want to kill it quick. Arceus-Dark has the advantage when it comes to Toxic and Paralysis, but if you can fit Heal Bell/Aromatherapy anywhere then it's a moot point.
Out of curiosity I tried out Dragon Arceus, and I wasn't too impressed. It has weaknesses to 2 of the most common types in Ubers, as well as 120 / 120 offenses that are kind of underwhelming in Ubers. Its extra bulk was helpful, but I'd rather use Rayquaza, Palkia, or Dialga.
@manaphy tentacruel is setup fodder unless it scores a burn with scald and even then that only delays the inevitable remember all tenta ever has is Scald (occasionally replaced by surf), Ice Beam, and Rarely Giga Drain (though as this forces you to forfeit Rain Dish it had better be on a non-Rain team) so the only "counter" is mewtwo (Deoxys-A/N are too frail to switch in).