[HGSS OU] TrickZam? Wall mantine and steelix? in OU?!

Discussion in 'Rate My Team' started by Gilad, Jun 21, 2010.

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  1. Gilad

    Gilad ¯\(°_°)/¯

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    to copy the team into your PO :D :

    [Secret]
    Alakazam (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 40 Def / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast

    Mantine (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic

    Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Roar

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Flamethrower
    - Hydro Pump

    Jolteon (M) @ Shuca Berry
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball
    - Heal Bell

    Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb
    - Superpower
    - Facade
    [/Secret]

    You probably think i'm crazy, again XD
    Here i wanna show you my very first team i built (when i wasn't a noob ^^") ever, everything here got a reason, so let's start:

    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 40 Def / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast

    "Alakazam in OU? you're crazy?!"

    I NEVER Fought Alakazam before, so i'm almost sure that nobody know what is his regular moveset, etc.
    Alakazam is tied with dugtrio and sceptile to be the 9th speedy pokemon (without Ubers).
    Alakazam is also tied with porygon-Z to be the pokemon with most Sp. attack (wihtout Ubers)

    That thing above make him a great lead, with nice movepool, and with Choice Scarf, it can ouspeed anything that don't have speed boost, even ninjask, so TrickZam can outspeed anything and lock it into one move, which ALWAYS work perfectly. here a few regular leads, and thier solve:

    Aero - Trick to take his sash, and lock him into taunt \ SR. if it stays, HP ice would 1HKO it.
    Roserade - Trick to take it's sash and lock it into Sleep Powder, and prevent it to use Toxic Spikes. Psychic 1HKO.
    Swampert - Trick it to take it's lefties and lock him into SR. psychic 2HKO
    Machamp - Psychic 1HKO.
    Azelf - Trick it to take it's lefties and lock him into SR.
    Dragonite - HP ice 1HKO it.

    (sometimes blissey switch in in the first turn, and got PWN.)

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Ice Beam
    - Toxic

    Mantine can take all special attacks that not Electric and Rock.
    it can almost 1HKO gyarados with HP Electric, it can 1HKO mence and nite, without any sp. attack EVS, so it screw DD set ups.
    Toxic, I'm sure i don't have to explain why.

    Why i chose Mantine? Mantine is the 5th to be with the most sp. def (without Ubers).
    I seached two pokemon that cover the other's weaknessess, and got high Def \ Sp. Def, And i found by my own Mantine and Steelix (as I call it SteelTine).
    EVs built to take STAB T-bolt.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Roar

    Steelix is a beast. It can even take STAB Close Combat from infarnape and EQ it to 1HKO, with only 4 DEF EVs.
    It also built to take fire moves well, For example-
    Heat wave from zapdos is 3HKO, and Roar it away, for more SR damage.(if i'm not wrong).

    Why i chose Steelix? as i said before - SteelTine is combination of 2 walls. Another Reason i chose steelix is that he is the 2nd of all pokemons with the most Defense.

    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Hardy Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Flamethrower
    - Hydro Pump

    Mixed Attacker. I know outrage > Dargon Claw, but i know that if i'll use it, next move i'll be against steel type, another reason is that I don't wanna let the enemy set up. I wanna Replace Mence with another pokemon, i'm open to suggestion.

    [​IMG] @ Shuca Berry
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Hardy Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball
    - Heal Bell

    The revenge killer guy, i know he is also used alot, but i need something quick with good movepool, that got at the most 2 weaknesses. So i chose Jolteon.
    I guess that he pretty much walled by pert, by if i switch into mantine, it can toxic it, and can resist EQ and Ice beam really really well.

    I guess that i don't need to explain the moveset except Heal Bell. Heal Bell is to cure the walls or breloom (which is next) if it was burt, or parhaxed.

    [​IMG] @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb
    - Superpower
    - Facade

    Another Unique Moveset, which is works!
    Each time you see breloom, you probably think it is "Sub Puncher Breloom".
    Everyone think it is, with Toxic Orb and Spore.
    So that's it - it's not.
    Seed bomb is do great amount of damage to anything. (STAB)
    Superpower is for quick kill, without sub. (STAB)
    Facade is boosted and neutral against many types.For example - people really likes to bring mence to intimidate and resist it's attacks, but facade is amost always 2HKOS, and i forgot to mention that he outspeed it and can put it to sleep.

    I forgot to mention - My only good skill is to predict well, and with this team - it's even more easy, for example-

    I'm against Gengar with Alakazam.
    I'm switch into mantine to take the shadow ball.
    Than to jolteon to take the T-bolt
    And then finish it off with Shadow Ball.

    Umm, here another recorded time i predict i really well with this team (The only change is that mence is now scarfed.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Zg721aCU4 - between 1:20 - 2:33 (PLEASE IGNORE MY VOICE THERE - I HAD COLD THERE + MY MICROPHONE WAS'NT OKAY, thanks ^^")

    And the last thing - I don't need rapid spin cause i got trick, and i got only 1 SR weakness + Jolteon got heal bell

    Umm, i hope you liked my team.

    rate & comment please~ *-*
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
  2. Ginku

    Ginku Member

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    Two things, i dont have much time:

    I assume this is a minor mistake, but in case it´s not: Azelf never carries lefties. lefties on azelf are like a life orb on blissey. A lead azelf has a sash.

    and the mence isnt that grat to be honest, you NEED Dmeteor on every set except DD, and Scarf mence isnt very good in general. I´d just go for a mixmence, but then u dont have a scarfer, and I dont know one that would fit your team specificially well, but jirachi seems solid for revenge kills and scouting.
     
  3. Gilad

    Gilad ¯\(°_°)/¯

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    Oh, right, forgot azelf got focus sash, so i got focus sash, for live at least 3 more turn (1 turn switch, 1 turn attack, and than i got another turn they'll kill me)

    I hate Mixmence, i used that b4, and i had really bad time with it, so i changed it into Scarfed one.
    Jirachi will make 3 poekmons that weak to ground, and 3 weak to fire.

    If you got any suggestion for another pokemon, i'll be glad to hear.

    Thanks for your comment.
     
  4. 1PlayNude

    1PlayNude No Fun Is Allowed

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    Hey i would first like to say i love how your team is original. you didnt copy past smogons standard movesets, like alot of the people i battle. i like how you wanted to come up w/ something all your own. i am not the best team rater out there so i wont pick your team apart however i just wanted to show you one thing that stood out to me.

    i just wanted to crunch some numbers for you on your jolteon even w/ the shucca berry.

    Flygon, 252 atk Jolly Choice scarf EQ 75-89%
    Mamoswine, 252 atk joly life orb EQ 90-107%
    Mamoswine adament life orb EQ always onko
    Heatran, 252 special atk, Life orb Earth Power 50-59%
    Gyaradose, 252 atk Adament LO before a Dragon dance EQ 84-98%
    Swampert, Standard lead mixpert EQ64-77%

    now these are not all of the threats out othere, but i wanted to show you how little the shucca berry does. all of these are a 2 hit ko and you can not safly switch into any of them. also i didnt add the effect's of Stealth rock or spikes.
     
  5. Gilad

    Gilad ¯\(°_°)/¯

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    Jolteon can outspeed +2 Speed gyara, and 1hko him with T-bolt, heatran is 2HKO with T-bolt, and Earth Power will do only half.
    I saw perts only as a lead, and if they'll EQ me, i'll switch into mantine to toxic it.
    Flygon is also a threats for my team, if it got Fire Blast, while HP ice will ohKO, and i will survive an attack.
    Mamowsine is walled by Mantine + Steelix (mantine can wall everything except stone edge, while steelix can wall all hits except EQ)

    Hmm, another reason using shucka is many people may think it would be scarf \ Specs, and i'll "trick" them.

    For example (really happened):
    I used shadow ball and killed Gengar off.
    Gyarados came out, thinking i'm specs and he can set up at least 1 dragon dance, and sweep my team.
    i out speed him of course, i used T-bolt and finish it off.
     
  6. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Professor Oak
    WRONG. Jolteon outspeeds a +1 Adamant Gyarados, but a +1 or more Jolly or a +2 or more Adamant will always outspeed your Jolteon... actually, your poor nature selection (Hardy. Seriously?) means that +1 Adamant Gyarados would still outspeed you anyway. Granted, Shuca Berry would probably stop Earthquake... oh no, wait, a +1 Adamant Earthquake is still a OHKO through Shuca Berry with Stealth Rock even without Life Orb. What use is Shuca Berry really? Change it to Leftovers and change the nature to Timid.

    Most Flygon are Choice Scarfed, so your Jolteon will fail to outspeed it and OHKO. Outrage is always a OHKO with Stealth Rock and Earthquake requires a little prior damage to get a OHKO with Stealth Rock, such as Spikes.

    Saying that Mamoswine is walled by Mantine + Steelix when they are both weak to moves commonly used by Mamoswine is just stupid. Jolly Mamoswine outspeeds and OHKOs Mantine with Stealth Rock support, and will always OHKO without Stealth Rock if it holds a Life Orb or Choice Band. Jolly Mamoswine's Earthquake is almost always a 2HKO with just Stealth Rock support on Steelix. Add any boosting item and Steelix is 2HKOed. Considering that Steelix cannot OHKO Mamoswine back with Earthquake, you've got a problem.

    Salamence needs max Speed with a Choice Scarf. Again, you've got a serious nature problem (HARDY AGAIN?), so change that to Naive. I'd change the EVs to something that has 252 Speed EVs, splitting the remaining EVs amongst Attack and Special Attack.

    Change Alakazam's ability to Inner Focus. Preventing flinches will seriously help against lead Infernape and Jirachi, as well as any other lesser-used leads that will try to flinch you. Change Rock Head to Sturdy, because you don't have any recoil moves that would work with Rock Head, and the slight protection against those players that try to use OHKO moves will help.

    I don't like this team at all in its current state, if I'm honest. I wouldn't recommend this to other people.
     
  7. 1PlayNude

    1PlayNude No Fun Is Allowed

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    oak you inspried me. looking over more in depth i see problems i didnt when i first glanced over it.

    Breloom.
    Why jolly? its not a sub seeder, and it has one of the best attacks in the game. let that shine use adament. the next thing wrong is super power? why would you ever want to lower brelooms's attack. its not a mixeed attacker, having a -1 only hurts your team. and thats just a bad idea. use focus punch becaure people always swith on the spore and if they dont you can spore there next pokemon anyway. also make sure you get it 12 hp ev's so it can gain more life back to toxic orb. w/ as little as 12 ev's invested into hp it gains a significant hp gain which can be game changing. Facade? why would you want to moves that are unable to hit a ghost type pokemon who resist seed bomb anyway.

    Alakazam.
    I see where your going, but to be honest, he is already fast enough and taunt can still screw over an azelf or just about anyone whose name is not aerodactyl and crobat. oak made an excellent point w/ inner focus. Persion, Ambipom, infernape, jirachi, are all pokemon i have used in ou as leads just for an early flinch. also alakazam has much better coverage w/ out being scarfed. give it a focus sash and teach it couner, when scizor comes in for the u-turn.

    Mantine's fine.
    i wouldnt really call it a wall though. its weak to nearly all the common moves in ou. stone edge, thunderbolt.. moves that every team has and uses..

    Steelix. Calm?
    steelix's defence stat is amazing. and guess what? OU IS ALMOST ALL PSYICAL ATTACKS. most lucario's, most infernpae, gyaradose, flygon, metagrosse. all the things people would switch in for super effective damge are going to be psyical attakers. max out defense. surf hits it for nutrual damage but mantine has water absorb.

    oak said everytihng i would say for salamence. and jolteon. except for the reason most people scarf a jolteon is for the sole purpose to counter gyaradose. i dd and concider your team sweapt. if not every member your team will be severly weekend. a scart jolteon tho preictabe, and because of this its risky. but the pay off is huge. Good luck w/ your team. and if you see me online i will gladly accept your challenge
     
  8. meztips

    meztips The name is Bond.

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    What STAB T-bolts is it expected to take? The most common electric types in OU, such as jolteon and magnezone, still OHKO it with no problem. The only STAB T-bolts it can take are from the rotom forms, and those still 2HKO.
     
  9. Eevee

    Eevee Member

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    Using Scarf Mence without a Rapid Spinner or Wishpasser isn't really that great for him. Since scarfers are often intended as revenge killers (which this Salamence seems to be...doesn't fit well as a wallbreaker or holepuncher) I would highly recommend that you use some sort of Rapid Spinner. Perhaps Starmie > Mantine? Just a thought.

    Also, Choice Scarf Salamence with a Hardy nature and only 4 Speed EVs seems kinda odd, as you don't outspeed other scarfers, and if nearly anything invested in speed gets to +1, it still KOs you. I'm going to second the idea of MixMence that someone earlier suggested; and definitely Classic MixMence. It's a fair amount more effective than the scarfmence that you are currently using.

    Anyways, good luck on the team.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  10. Gilad

    Gilad ¯\(°_°)/¯

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    it suppose to be timid nature, forgot to put the nature. ^^"
    Same with salamence, i forgot to put the nature, i'll change it.
    It doesn't matter if Steelix got rock head, cause there is 1HKO moves clause.
    I don't really like salamnce, i got really hard time with playing with it, i'll be happy if you'll tell me another pokemon, mixed with scarf.
    Thanks for the comment =)

    oh, BTW i'll change alakazam ability into inner focus.

    The main idea of this team is to suprise the foe.
    while you can waste turn puting you sub, while the foe can set-up, you can kill it imedately.
    The breloom set made to kill or put much damge in short time. breloom is jolly to outspeed most pokemon and put them to sleep, then i can chose to attack him or to switch.
    With alakazam, i switch into steelix, which fake out doesn't do even 6%, and lefties recovery heals all the damage off, but i would be good idea to change it to inner focus.
    Steelix - Steelix can survive close comabt from lucario like a champ and EQ it to death.

    i didn't build mantine to take T-bolt hits, only if i missed click or anything else, it would maybe survive, steelix immune to electricty, and jolteon can't do anything to it.
    with magnatzone - breloom can superpower it to 1HKO without any problem.

    i'll sure accept your challenge, i'll be glad to battle you, thanks for the comment =)

    I guess i'll switch mence with mixed rapid spinner or just a rapid spiner.
    I'll try the mixmence again, and if i won't work well, i'll tell you guys.

    Thanks for comments, again =)

    Changes:

    Inner Focus On alakazam
    Nature on Jolteon + Mence
    Scarfmence Become and Mixmence.
     
  11. Sleuth

    Sleuth Member

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    Haven't even read it yet, but nice one for usnig Mantine and Steelix in OU! XD
    No, but seriously, I really like the team. Biggest problem is that you have a huge problem with Jolly Bounce Gyra. After 1 DD, it'll outspeed and 1HKO most everything you got. Nice effort though buddy, I hope to battle this team on PO soon.
     
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