[ADV] [LC ADV] Suspect Discussion: Omanyte

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Groudon Ramsay, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    7
    Omanyte has easily proven to be one of the most powerful pokemon in the tier, even pushing some people to call it LCU. Discuss the possibility of Omanyte becoming LCU, try to find checks/counters and give an estimate of its power. If after several days of discussion a consensus is reached, Omanyte will be moved to LCU.

    That is all.
     
  2. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't feel that Omanyte is Uber. Yes, it has Spikes for being a lead, and it has really good SpA combined with good moves and no Chansey in the tier, but face it: it's SLOW. WIth no Damp Rock, Swift Swim isn't as viable, and it kinda has issues with Grass attacks(like Hidden Power). HP Grass is an easy tool for Water-types to run, and they can come in and stop Omanyte's rampage. It can't even boost its Speed, so it is STAYING at its speed.

    Something like Staryu is a nice option, and it has other utility as well.
     
  3. Django

    Django UNCHAINED

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Omanyte is definitely a top threat in LC ADV. It's rain dance set (Rain Dance/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/ HP Grass) with swift swim makes it incredibly fast and powerful. It reaches 19 Sp. Atk, none too shabby (complemented by double stab hydro pump). Outside of rain it's speed is mediocre but just 76 speed ev's it reaches 11 speed, allowing it to outspeed max elekid in rain. (Fastest poke outside of agility Porygon iirc). This minimal investment means it can bulk up it's HP and Defense in order to survive a hit and set up RD.

    The most dangerous thing about Omanyte is that yes, rain is not as powerful as furture gens it can still tear a team apart in just 4 turns. Massive holes can be opened for frailer and lesss powerful rain sweepers (such as Horsea or Lotad) to easily run through and exploit.

    Omanyte can 2HKO Max/Max Chinchou (a premier special wall / bulky water in LC ADV) with Hydro Pump and HP Grass or is more likely to 2HKO with HP grass. Oran Berry's become a factor here but still. One check to Omanyte thats going down very quickly, opening up holes for the aforementioned sweepers.

    Finally, the lack of choice scarf users in ADV means you know if Omanyte outspeeds something or not, so no prediction is required to switch out or not.

    All in all I feel the metagame would benefit from not having the force of Omanyte around and allow matches not to be decided by who sweeps with it first.
     
  4. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    7
    You've clearly never played against an Omanyte in Rain in LC Adv... and by the looks of it, you haven't played LC Adv at all.

    Omanyte is the single most broken thing in the tier... its got one check, and its not even reliable.
     
  5. Psykout22

    Psykout22 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Omanyte is incredibly dangerous, weak to the priority of only mach punch, of which only Tyrogue has, omanyte outspeeds and destroys the opponent. The fact is in order to beat omanyte you have to run a faster omanyte or another rain sweeper to deal with the strength.

    Larvitar may also need to be looked into, being only fully stopped by Baltoy I believe is strong, although the difficulty of setting up is noted, it get set up with little support and sweep, again like omanyte it is only weak to mach punch priority.
     
  6. champagne papi

    champagne papi if young tokyo tom don't trust you...

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    246
    I find DeepSeaScale Clamperl to be a DECENT check to it, but it still takes major damage from Hydro Pump/Hidden Power.
    Omanyte is DEFINETLY broken. The thing is it shares a good check with Larvitar (Clamperl), another extremely powerful pokémon in the tier, which means if you run both, you can easily tear the opponent's team apart. (similar to Rayquaza+Salamence)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2011
  7. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    7
    Me thinks ban, no? Unless there is any objections, I'll be asking an admin to implement this ban tomorrow.
     
  8. Jules

    Jules i make you MANGRY

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    1
    No

    There are ways to deal with it. Yes Omanyte is good but it is not OP. Scyther is OP. Meditite is OP. That is why they have already been banned.

    How do you get the rain dance out safely? Omanyte does not have great typing as almost everything in LC will have a move that SEs it. Fight/Ground/Elec/Grass is not uncommon what so ever, ESPECIALLY fight/ground.

    After you take that hit what says there wont be another swift swim poke on the other team? Or no CB Tyrogue to 60% you with mach punch? 60% is a lot of life and you'll almost for certain be around that unless you have a rain dance out beforehand (like what i do with voltorb), and if you do thats only about what? 3 turns of rain to work with? maybe 2?

    Anything that resists water wont be OHKOed yes even though there are not a lot of water resists everyone seems to think chinchou is this god of a pokemon in LC ADV and is on a large majority of teams. What about staryu? Did people somehow forget about how good staryu's movepool/base stats are? what about some end-reving pokemon? you could catch some people off with something like end-rev mankey since some people are too careless to have a quick attacker/mach puncher. or maybe some salac berry on something else like abra? or try using trace Porygon with its great stats.

    Omanyte is GOOD yes but if you guys actually put a little bit more time into EXPERIMENTING/LEARNING with the metagame (not like with what happened with ADV NU where everyone uses the same team consisting of some shitty wish flareon to counter a pokemon that shouldn't be in the metagame anyways, hitmonchan, pupitar/shellgon (who shouldn't be allowed anyways), haunter (who shouldn't be allowed anyways), relicanth, pidgeot, and some filler normally chimecho or lickitung) or played with the classic rules (aka item clause where you cant put life recovering berries on every pokemon) then this wouldn't be a problem.

    You people also have to understand that this is LC. You cannot have a check and balance for every single pokemon. it is almost impossible. I mean for gods sake the metagame revolves around everything getting OHKO-2HKOed (much like 5th gen but we wont go there)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011