[HGSS] Should alt forms be affected by species clause?

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Astruvis, Jun 7, 2010.

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  1. Astruvis

    Astruvis Banned

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    Something I thought of, should alternate forms of the same pokemon with reasonable differences, such as deoxys-d vs deoxys-a, be counted under the species clause?

    Of course, things such as unknown, high stat-rotom, burmy, shellos, etc would be classified as the same, but when it comes to deoxys, wormadam, and maybe giratina, I think they should count once per form.
     
  2. Kioku

    Kioku Member

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    Yes. They're counted towards the same species in-game for its species clause. PO does the same. No problem here.
     
  3. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    I've participated in this discussion as it's been brought up several times in both RSE and DPP and my answer is always the same.

    If you can do it in game then you should be able to do it online. Otherwise, no.
     
  4. Elements

    Elements BOOMER SOONER Forum Moderator Server Staff Forum Moderator Server Staff

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    Alternate forms do not mean a new species of pokemon. Deoxys changes forms in game through the use of meteorites and rotom through the use of machines. If you want to battle with these forms all at once than just challenge without 'Species Clause' enabled.
     
  5. Jules

    Jules i make you MANGRY

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    Alt forms are of the same species.
     
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    I'm against the species clause as a standard clause, but alt formes are still part of the same species. And, if species clause is on, only one of each species.
     
  7. Akusu

    Akusu Guest

    o_0 Really? I find that incredibly odd. Most people play the game with an implicit species clause... and I think it does good things for the meta in general.
     
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Species clause seems somewhat like item clause to me, it forces you to use different Pokemon but in doing so limits the number of possible team combinations and strategies. "Forcing" variety, while restricting otherwise viable teams. I doubt it will be removed from standard play, but it's not one of my favorite clauses. Though, to be fair, I'm not exactly keen on several other clauses..
     
  9. Avi

    Avi Member

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    I dont really think that Species should apply to Alt formes... think about it. Maybe you want a lead Deoxys-S for a quick stealth rock. Then you want to be able to switch to a super-offensive Deoxys-A for hard hitting. Then if you are in a tight spot, you might want to switch out to Deoxys-D for some tanking.

    EDIT: Yay first post :)
     
  10. Akusu

    Akusu Guest

    Species clause is defined by the name of the species shown in the info, which never changes no matter what form you're using.

    Deoxys is probably the best argument for it though, considering each form is drastically different from the others. Rotom is not though (as said). I can't think of anything OU that could count under that definition though, so I don't think it bears much more thought.
     
  11. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Wait.. Aren't there pokémons and evolutions that have the same species? Then shouldn't I restrict those pokémons together with their evolutions?
     
  12. Akusu

    Akusu Guest

    They have different names, so they're different pokemon under the species clause.
     
  13. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    INCORRECT.

    This was debated during RSE and settled upon. Different forms of Pokemon are still the same Pokemon as far as species clause is concerned. Astruvis just keeps trying to rewrite the rules of Pokemon to suit him, as illustrated here (banning Arceus from Ubers). And it's honestly starting to become very annoying.

    Smogon does not allow multiple forms of the same Pokemon on the same team because that would violate species clause. Why would we do otherwise?
     
  14. Elements

    Elements BOOMER SOONER Forum Moderator Server Staff Forum Moderator Server Staff

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    Astruvis is the King of Crazy Ideas lol. But yeah alternate forms does not equal a new species of pokemon.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2010
  15. Akusu

    Akusu Guest

    Ah, I guess I was mistaken. I thought it was strictly species name. How do you explain being able to use multiple eeveelutions on the same team then? I've also run into multiple "Clefable", "Clefairy", "Cleffa" Magic Guard teams.
     
  16. Lutra

    Lutra All Gen Battler/Scripter

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    They are different Pokemon as labeled by the national dex. The "Species" in Species clause refers to having a max of one per national dex number.
     
  17. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Quite a few Pokemon share the same Species name, Donphan and Tyranitar, Pineco family and Burmy family (other than Mothim), Pikachu, Sandshrew and Rattata families, for example. Lutra is right in saying dex number is the thing to consider. Even the official species clause specifies dex number!

    oh, and
    Each Pokemon is tiered by it's own merit, not based on it's evolution's power.
     
  18. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Thread closed.
     
  19. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    These are evolutions, not alternate forms.

    Edit: oops didn't notice the lock

    Edit2:

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
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