[ADV] LC ADV Discussion

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Groudon Ramsay, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Groudon Ramsay

    Groudon Ramsay Active Member

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    Lets talk about the Little Cup Metagame in ADV and whatnot... yeah.

    Initial Bans:

    • Chansey
    • Meditite
    • Scyther
    • Berry Juice
    • Sitrus Berry
    • DeepSeaTooth

    Discuss the possibility of other bans, good sets, and anything you want, really. Go.
     
  2. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    Jules said Sitrus Berry wasnt't banned, but I think we should keep it banned. Rain can be powerful if set up but the lack of damp rock makes it managable. Diglett(derp) is a very powerful trapper but being locked into a move allows a lot of things to set up on it. Nothing else really stands out as broken right now, but I would like to see chansey given a test to see how truly broken it is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  3. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    IFM, it's Diglett btw. Chansey is surely going to be banned with a giant 105SDef and awesome HP...

    Meditite is pro, with 28Atk and bulk + Fake Out + Recover. It has a great coverage too of Brick Break + Shadow Ball.

    Elekid is suprisingly good, running a special set with:

    Elekid (F) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Punch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave

    Psychic KO's Gastly, and it is faster. Thunderbolt just hurts. Fire Punch hits something that I don't know, but might be useful, and Thunder Wave is for the rest of my team.

    Lavitar is strong too after 1 Dragon Dance, but this can counter it:

    Slowpoke (F) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Oblivious
    EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 36 SAtk / 36 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Surf
    - Psychic
    - Calm Mind


    It never gets Slack Off...And never gets the chance to Calm Mind. Still decent.

    Doduo is pro too. I don't know what to give it, but something like this:?

    Doduo (F) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Drill Peck
    - Double-Edge
    - Agility / Rest / Steel Wing


    I realise it is weak to Lavitar and Aron with Agility or Rest. Still does a load of damage with STAB Double Edge.
     
  4. Erebos

    Erebos Banned

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    More usually smth like

    Doduo (F) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute/Endure
    - Flail
    - Drill Peck
    - Double Edge/Quick Attack[/B]
     
  5. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    If you want to run something like that, you'll want

    Doduo (F) @ Leichi Berry
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: Max HP /236 Atk
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Endure
    - Flail
    - Drill Peck
    - Agility

    Bulky enough to take a Meditite Brick Break - Agility, Endure and Flail.
     
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Lets not start with a DST ban, and perhaps not Medi too. One of the biggest arguments for the Gen 4 DST ban was Trick Room teams which would obviously not be an issue in Gen 3. Chansey would be worth leaving unbanned at least initially, bulk with no power tends to die without doing much at Lv. 5.
     
  7. M Dragon

    M Dragon Active Member

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    Meditite, Chansey and Scyther must be banned
     
  8. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Care to provide reasons? Scyther is extremely bulky, faster than anything else, has great attack, can SD and sweep near everything, and has no SR to keep it in check, ok. The other two don't seem like obvious insta-bans to me. At least worth putting down the specific reasons for why they are not tested, and perhaps allowing them initially. I'd not be shocked to see Chansey being unbroken, it has no offense bar loltoxic, Seismic Toss is a 4-5HKO on the whole tier.. setup bait nothing else.
     
  9. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    Meditite (M) @ Oran Berry Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 36 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Brick Break
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Fake Out

    Gets the stats of:
    22Hp/28Atk/13Def/12SDef/13Spd

    Reasonably bulky, 28 ATK! Gastlys normally don't run Shadow Ball either, as that is Physical and their Physical attack sucks. Any Psychic type like Slowpoke is gonna take a OHKO shadow ball. Switches in with Fake Out too. Imagine a Choice Band Set. Meditite OHKO's the following with Fake Out + Brick Break / Shadow Ball.

    Doduo
    Larvitar
    Gastly
    Houndour
    Elekid
    Sunkern
    Chansey

    This list goes on forever.

    Chansey:

    Chansey (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Def / 236 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Calm Mind
    - Flamethrower


    This thing gets the stats of:
    42HP/11Def/13SAtk/17Sdef/11Spd


    Toxic Stall is cool. No special attacks are going to hurt you. You might aswell use leftovers in this case, as Oran is only going to heal 10HP. Any Steel type that is gonna resist toxic can take Boosted Flamethrowers.
     
  10. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Medi is powerful, yes, but without Choice Scarf around it's slow and should not be hard to revenge kill. Choice sets have problems because all its attacks don't affect many common Pokemon, and even non CB gives other Pokemon free switches if they can predict. Slowpoke is not quite OHKOed by Shadow Ball actually.. and the list of Pokes that get OHKOed is full of Pokemon which are frail physically, or weak to it's STAB attack. I mean, lol Sunkern and Elekid (who outspeeds and will do a lot back with Tbolt). With the right prediction it's likely to kill something, but is easy enough to force out. Just like Cranidos in Gen 4 LC, but with meh speed and no scarf to fix it.

    That Chansey set is perfect setup bait for every single non-fire weak physical attacker. 13 SpA non-Stab flamethrowers are going to be laughed off while Dratini DDs in your face. Even better, once it's lost a bit of HP it's not going to take special attacks like nothing, your set takes 31.7% - 39% from Timid LO Staryu Hydro Pump.
     
  11. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    Life Orb? That doesn't exist. Chansey is just one pokémon though, you can not expect it to beat teams 6-0. Toxic then switching is good enough, or just run ice beam over toxic for Dratini.
     
  12. ASH_CHAMPION

    ASH_CHAMPION A very useless person~

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    Meh
    Chansey isnt set up fodder as eric is saying. Chansey can run Flamethrower and Ice beam to pwn any pokemon. Wish And Toxic At its side. Ur gonna need a sub pokemon to beat it. But i still wouldnt call it to be banned, as its not invincible exactly. Also regarding Meditite, meditite is easily outsped by a lot of pokemon, and i honestly see no need at all to ban it. (Although Please let Scyther, Sneasel and yanma through, Please ♥)
     
  13. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

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    Yanma doesn't evolve, so it can't be used.

    Scyther isn't going through either, with epic Bulk, and Stealth Rock doesn't exist. It outspeeds all other Little Cup pokémon too, and has Swords Dance. Waaay too powerful.
     
  14. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    I dunno if it will survive a strong hit from Meditite, but Surskit can outspeed and smash it with Hydro Pump. Also, Onix outspeeds, so come in on Fake Out and have some fun.

    There's a horrible lack of bug types in LC Adv. Could that mean that psychics/grasses that can cover Chansey could power their way through teams?

    What are viable options for boosting? Cubone could be a big ol' danger, in the same way that Meditite is. Is Agility BP Spinerak even workable?
     
  15. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Sorry about LO, forgot about that. Still, the main point (setup bait, no real offense, and physical attackers walk over it) stands.
     
  16. For The Troll

    For The Troll Banned

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    elekid is broken in LC ADV we dont have too much counters for it and diglet dont outspeed it if is jolly .----.
    should get banned from LC ADV
     
  17. Meteor64

    Meteor64 TM1337 Falcon Punch

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    Anorith actually has good Speed for LC (Base 75) and that base 95 Attack is tempting... Swords Dance sweeper anyone?
    Lileep could perform a similar role to Cradily with Suction Cups, Amnesia, Barrier, Toxic and Recover.
    Omanyte has Base 100 Def and 90 Sp.Atk- with rain, it could serve as a Swift Swim Sweeper or it could just be used as a wall... any thoughts?
    Ponyta is even more blessed in the stats department, notably 85 Atk, 90 Spd, and retains a lot of bulk elsewhere...Mixed Sweeper perhaps?
    Also , dont forget Trapinch as a trapper.
    And Clamperl as a Special sweeper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  18. Jules

    Jules i make you MANGRY

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    Code (text):
    1. (14:56:01) +Jules: HEY
    2. (14:56:03) +Jules: WHY THE FUCK
    3. (14:56:09) +Jules: IS THERE A GLISCOR
    4. (14:56:12) +Jules: IN ADV LC
    5. (14:56:13) +Jules: ER
    6. (14:56:14) +Jules: GLIGAR
    7. (14:56:16) +Jules: THERES NO FUCKING
    8. (14:56:18) +Jules: GLISCOR
    9. (14:56:19) +Jules: IN FUCKING ADV
    10.  
    GLIGAR IS NOT A FIRST STAGE EVO ADFUISDHFADSUHFA

    Why is Sitrus and berry juice banned? they were never deemed "INSANELY BROKEN" or never even really cared about dating all the way back to gsc.

    Why is item clause not enforced? it's been that way since the idea of LC was created
     
  19. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior Member

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    Physical attackers don't exactly "walk over Chansey". Meditite is banned, Scyther as well, meaning the best in the tier are probably BD Ziggy(very reduced priority), and DD Bagon. Ziggy beats if a Sub is still up, while DD Bagon needs to go to +2, which is enough time to paralyze.
     
  20. Kazuchika Okada

    Kazuchika Okada Member

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    Horsea should be suspected, IMO. It's just as good as Omanyte, but faster. Though its Special Attack stat is quite lower than that of Omanyte, Horsea can hit really hard with Hydro Pump/Surf.

    Horsea (M) @ Oran Berry
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 116 HP / 196 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    This set is similar to that of Omanyte's, and can really make holes in teams. The only thing that can check Horsea after it has used Rain dance is Chinchou. Chinchou can live a HP Grass and kill Horsea with Thunderbolt. Horsea is just as dangerous as Omanyte is in Adv LC.
     
  21. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    Before that. I'd say Larvitar needs to be looked at. It sets up on a whole load of Pokémon with ease and the tier struggles to survive its +1 hits.
    Before that even. I think Belly Drum Zigzag needs to be looked at. It's not hard to set up with and is only stopped by a few relatively uncommon Pokémon (like Onix)
    But yeah, Horsea is a bitch.

    Also Doduo is a beast <3
    [secret]Doduo (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Frustration
    - Quick Attack
    - Drill Peck
    - Hidden Power [Ghost][/secret]
     
  22. Kazuchika Okada

    Kazuchika Okada Member

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    I really have nothing to say about Larvitar, as I've got Baltoy which counters it.
    As for Zigzagoon, I agree with Weavilewinz.

    I was facing *insert the player's name here* in Adv LC, and he was using a team which consisted of Ralts and Zigzagoon.
    Ralts would set up Reflect and Light Screen, which would allow it to take less damage, even from an Adamant Diglett's HP Ghost. Then it would use Memento, which would then reduce your Pokemon's Atk stat and Sp Atk stat by -2. Then he would bring out Zigzagoon and set up Belly Drum while your attacks do less than 40% to it. Making a switch wouldn't be of any use, as Zigzagoon would set up BD anyway. Endure Salac Berry Zigzagoon even outspeeds and OHKOs Gastly with Shadow Ball, which is the only thing that can take no damage from Extremespeed.

    I don't know about the others, but the only thing I've been able to beat this kind of a strategy is with Baltoy, which would Explode on Ralts's face and kill it even when a Reflect is on. This would prevent Zigzagoon from setting up Belly Drum. But this may not work all the time.
    So yeah, Zigzagoon is worth suspecting too, imo.