Timeout Bar of the opponent

Discussion in 'Development General' started by coyotte508, Apr 25, 2010.

?

See the opponent's time decrease in real time?

Poll closed Apr 26, 2010.
  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    56.3%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
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  1. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Should we see the opponent's timeout bar?

    Seeing it can help prediction. On the other hand, not seeing it can become annoying when waiting for them to move.
     
  2. Darkness

    Darkness DN

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    We should. Because earlier today when I was battling, my opponent didn't select his move and I had no idea if the timeout was in effect since the bar kept displaying 5:00. And coincidentally, my net lagged before I got into that battle which left me wondering the whole time whether it was my lag or my opponent's laziness to select his move.

    Hence, we should make the timeout bar show its progress when either me or my opponent didn't select our moves. In case we select our move before it times out, the time should jump increase to +30 seconds.
     
  3. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Lol , vote in the poll then.
     
  4. Darkness

    Darkness DN

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    I have. You should make your vote too.
     
  5. Lutra

    Lutra All Gen Battler/Scripter

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    I said this before: I don't see why we can't just have a set time in which to do each turn. Then we can just see it as one timer that reduces for both players. If someone is trying to abuse the system, it should become quickly obvious to the auth (at the very least, you can tell people to hurry up). It may involve a little extra work on the auth's part than the current system though.

    Thinking about it, this would put a demand on the ability for auth to somehow check the timer of both players. This may be one reason why it was not implemented on NB.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  6. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    Seeing your opponent's time bar go down in real time gives a distinct prediction advantage which is not present in the game to the player who moves second. This is nice in a way (i like having that extra info to work with when trying to outpredict the opponent), but not really true the the game. So should not be included.
    you can easily scroll up to check, not hard to fix.

    Simply cancel your move and check if your own timer goes down.

    Lutra: I disagree with that system. You can't abuse the current system to any real extent, at best you waste 5 mins. Then you have to make all your moves very fast or lose. Restricting moves to 30 seconds is not useful, some moves require a lot of thought and that should be allowed. Timed battle is just to prevent serious time wasters, not punish slow thinkers or players who like to consider certain moves carefully.
     
  7. Darkness

    Darkness DN

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    My idea is simple. If I don't select my move, my timeout progress bar lowers which is visible to me and my opponent and vice versa.

    In real time of course, like a running clock. lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  8. Quacks

    Quacks Member

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    Seeing it allows opponent to guess if you are going to switch out or not in shoddy, and this is one of things you can't do it on DS. Assuming PO wants to be closer to DS battling, it's better to leave it as it is now.
     
  9. Lutra

    Lutra All Gen Battler/Scripter

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    Ok, so what about either timestamps in the battle to allow you to deduce the time or an animated bar superimposed on the timer bar which counts down to the time they would have if they hadn't made a move?
     
  10. UltraPorygon

    UltraPorygon New Member

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    Being able to see the opponent's timeout bar would be bad, because, first, in DS Battling, you cannot see it, and, second, it would make prediction much easier and good prediction can easily change the tide of a battle, so it would no longer be fun for serious competitive battlers like me who could predict switches real easy and if some of the opponent's Pokémon have been seen, you would have a high chance of bringing in a correct counter, which could then easily OHKO with Pursuit or set-up while the opponent switches out and then wreak serious havoc, while being quite hard to stop (Salamence, Gyarados, Scizor, Porygon-Z, Breloom...).

    If you ask me, showing the opponent's timeout bar would almost be like granting players the ability to read the opponent's mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  11. Steve

    Steve Active Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Voting yes on this.
     
  12. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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    Sorry about making it 50/50 =/

    I don't think the player should be allowed to view the opponent's timer, as it can give the player an advantage.

    However, perhaps you could make the timer visible to all spectators? The only problem with that would be spectators telling one of the battlers if the opponent has moved yet or not. Of course, the advantage to it would be that the auth can see whether the battlers have made their moves or not by watching the battle.
     
  13. Darkness

    Darkness DN

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    A battle timeout notification could be nice. Then I wouldn't have any problem with the current function of timeout.
    Such as -

    Suppose my opponent has got only 30 seconds in hand before he runs out of time. So a message is displayed in the battle log area saying "[Player_1] has got 30 seconds in their hand before the win goes to [Player_2] by default." Netbattle had that feature and now I think I know why it was necessary.


    What say you people?
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Active Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Yeah DN, it would be a good idea to have it, if Coyotte isn't gonna add the ability to see the opponents timeout in real time.
     
  15. zeroality

    zeroality Artificial Insanity

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    Yes, if the poll results turn out to be in favor of removing the real time display then a message should be shown at 30 seconds like DN said.

    I don't think we would need to enable it for spectators if it was removed, as that's not necessary at all but moderators/admins would find it useful in times where they need to determine which player is stalling as some players may do it repeatedly, and that can be noted by the staff.

    I'm not voting - neutral either way, but I will say that if you guys are trying to emulate the DS gameplay as much as possible then you should stay true to it.
     
  16. Akusu

    Akusu Guest

    Personally, don't update the timer until the opponent has finished their move.

    5 minutes should be cumulative by the way. (perhaps refresh to 30 seconds if both players are below it when a turn starts).
     
  17. Jules

    Jules i make you MANGRY

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  18. Pokérob

    Pokérob New Member

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    Although I agree that by not seeing your opponents time bar you're able to not predict perhaps what they will do, the problem is that what if the opponent is playing to 4 minutes and 50 seconds every time and is trying to stall you out of a win?

    Personally, this feature should be a tick, you should be able to tick "See Opponent Timebar" because then in like competitive tournament battles you'll be able to just play it without seeing their timeout and hence like in finals you wouldn't predict over your opponent etc. Whilst in ladder format I think it's required.

    On the note of lames who play for time to win the match, we need more server mods to be able to PM to say that an opponent is stalling and so the mod would go into the game to ask him to make his move and if he doesn't in 1 minute you kick him from the server inititating the win to the correct player.
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Active Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    You know, if you can't see the timer bar in real time, you can just count. :/
    That's another reason why this idea should be added.
     
  20. Quacks

    Quacks Member

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    Making a move doesn't refill the whole timer bar, it only adds extra 30 seconds or so (I might be wrong on the precise amount, though).

    Having to call for moderators if someone stalls for time beats the point of timed match. Stalling for time is precisely what timers are supposed to prevent.

    Mind elaborating what did you mean here? On shoddy, for example, you can see that someone have chosen their move in two seconds, which is not enough to switch tabs and switch out a pokemon. Counting does not help there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2010
  21. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    I think Steve meant that when the opponent isn't moving, we can guess their time if we time it ourself.

    The problem is not that, the problem is when we have not moved yet and we see the opponent move or not.
     
  22. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    This makes a fair amount of sense, especially if it could make a sound/flash the window. I've had several times where I've hit find match or challenged someone, nothing has happened for 5 or 10 mins, I've been doing something else and miss the battle entirely. An alert for "time running low" would be great, and not ease prediction notably.

    As Coyotte said, the real problem comes when you can see whether foe for has made a move before you move yourself. This is prevented near perfectly by the current system, and would be a problem if we move back to the old system of seeing when their timer stops.
     
  23. Darkon

    Darkon Member

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    No, because in-game you not have this option, imo.
     
  24. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Ete, now the battle window should blink like a MSN convo when the battle starts.

    And also the old system was having the opponent's timer decreasing, but without stopping until the turns begins. It was confusing and that's why we decided of not making the time decrease at all.
     
  25. Lutra

    Lutra All Gen Battler/Scripter

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    Is it possible to have a hover box that shows the time that the opponent would have left if they hadn't made a move?
     
  26. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    A hover box? You mean tooltip text? yes, it would be possible.
     
  27. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon is an espeon.

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    yes, that does help a lot.
    before that it was just going to tick down and stop when they made their move, like shoddy, no?
     
  28. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Nope, when timeout was asked for you specifically told not to show the time of the opponent stop :p
     
  29. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    Now that the poll is closed, even though majority is for Yes, had I voted for No instead of Yes (and the arguments here convinced me) it would have been an equal match :p

    So, I guess I'll go with the tooltip message displaying the time remaining.
     
  30. Tonico

    Tonico Member

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    Ok, so I would've voted no. Because it would help make prediction alot easier. But then maybe I would suggest something like a check or X thing instead of a 5 minute timer. So that you would know if your opponent made a move or not. But to prevent prediction, it will change 10 seconds after the action has been done. Just a suggestion though.

    Off-topic, how long till I can go on after being banned? Sorry for spamming :(
     
  31. Steve

    Steve Active Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    I'll unban you tommorow, since you apologized.

    Topic locked, as this no longer needs discussion.
     
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