[POCL] Pokémon Online Champions League 2017 [Week 7 & Tierbreaker]

Discussion in 'Official Tournaments' started by fsk, Oct 8, 2017.

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  1. MetalGross

    MetalGross gems…

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  2. CALLOUS

    CALLOUS Active Member

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    Far and away the best and most available time for Newalfonquest is 9-11 PM his time, which is GMT+2. If MeowMix is available then that would be fantastic.
     
  3. Casparov

    Casparov This is supposed to be a Medal!

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  4. H-C

    H-C Choke

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    Won, gg
     
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  5. Valentine

    Valentine バレンタイン

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    My opponent, Rokhan, does not have time to complete this game.
    Both Rokhan and myself talked with HSOWA yesterday for a sub but none are available.
    I'm moving into my new apartment today and won't have internet access.

    Activity.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Genesis7

    Genesis7 Active Member

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  7. DAVIDpwns

    DAVIDpwns Member

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  8. Jimmy Turtwig

    Jimmy Turtwig Member

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  9. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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  10. Real FV13

    Real FV13 Active Member

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  11. Alexander.

    Alexander. Well-Known Member

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    Didn't see my opp anywhere, activity
     
  12. Sken

    Sken local hero

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    lost due to hitting 2 rock blasts only but oh well gg anyways go team!!!
     
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  13. champagne papi

    champagne papi if young tokyo tom don't trust you...

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    I beat We Three Kings, gg. Got the lucky breaks when I needed 'em
     
  14. CALLOUS

    CALLOUS Active Member

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    Probably doesn’t matter at this point but was asked by Dragon to post activity on his behalf. Scheduled a time tonight with Kingler but he wasn’t answering on Discord or elsewhere and Dragon went to bed after waiting a bit since it’s past midnight for him.
     
  15. porygon2

    porygon2 Active Member

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  16. TSR

    TSR ⎛ ´●  ω ●` ⎞

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    ez's been MIA for the whole week, activity ig :I
     
  17. theurbandear

    theurbandear Active Member

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    opponent missed scheduled time yesterday. tried to play today, but our schedules didn't line up. see his wall for our communications.
     
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  18. Mr. Perry

    Mr. Perry wat

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    Following those rullings, we now have our four semifinalists!

    Stuttgart Stoutlands VS. Arsenal Arcanines
    Winchester Wobbuffets VS. Southampton Seakings

    I'd like to thank everyone who joined that actually took some fraction of their time to manage a team or play their matches for this tournament. This tournament might not have the visibility (or the drama (hey @Mazar!)) but I for sure had a very nice run and even though you guys might not have reached the cut, I pray you guys have had fun while you could. This thread will remain open for shoutouts, complaints (i'm sure there will be some) and etc - please be civil though.

    For the qualified teams, you guys have until midnight GMT -4 to send me your lineups. If I get all the lineups before said time, I'll post the semis earlier.
     
  19. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Pretty disappointing that we missed out because two guys didn't bother contacting their opponents when we were literally being handed activity wins by dead opponents - nobody to blame but ourselves for that. Think we clearly had a top ~3 roster in terms of skill no matter how you look at it, even with Shake quitting pkmn almost immediately, but we didn't execute as well as planned and we got unlucky during two crucial weeks. Regardless, pretty disappointing experience, but I enjoyed my games. Thanks to the other BW dudes for playing, all my teammates for being chill, and Snaga/Mfhoundoom for managing - you guys are all friends :)!

    Hope the CALLOUS team wins for a variety of reasons, mainly being that he tries more than the other managers and Starmaster winning a team tour while tournament banned from Smogon would amuse me.


    Suppose I'll be around PO here and there to check up on things, but be back mainly for POWC.
     
  20. Troller

    Troller Well-Known Member

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    We could have won together the third time in a row @Dr. Fomantis Toboggan, once i wasn't sucking cocks in ubers....
     
  21. HSOWA

    HSOWA Well-Known Member Forum Moderator Server Moderator Tournament Host Forum Moderator Server Moderator Tournament Host

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    Pity we didn't end up going through, but I still enjoyed being manager. We were really unlucky in some crucial matches (if only Iron Head didn't flinch Mienfoo in week 1), and it was nice working with SPL-level players. Not gonna do individual shoutouts but I wish you all the best in any other future tours, you're all good players with high potential.

    Good luck to the rest of the teams :)
     
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  22. Z+V

    Z+V Active Member

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    Very enjoyable season overall despite missing out on playoffs, thanks team.
     
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  23. Draciel

    Draciel ALLEZ! ALLEZ! ALLEZ!

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    Disappointing to miss out on playoffs yet again, I believe we definitely had a top 4 worthy team this year but things didn't go our way at times. I believe we let slip playoffs between weeks 2 to 4 where we led 4-1 each week but managed to lose 2 and tie 1; a little bit of luck, a couple more wins would've made all the difference. We put up a strong show after midseason but 5/6 points was always gonna be hard. No regrets though, had a great time and met a bunch of cool guys.

    Shoutouts:

    @Z+V you did an amazing job, you were dedicated to help the team every week, made deadline subs when I couldn't and im glad I got to manage the team with you. Don't worry, you are gonna win a ST before finch does n_n

    @ZoroDark Thanks for helping me in the draft, you were motivated for the first 2 weeks and probably didn't care much after that. You really suck at Ubers dude, learn from tko lol.

    @meeps ULTRA MEEPSVICTORY the best, you didn't even play SM OU seriously and still ended with the top 6-1 record. You deserve to be in the playoffs, sorry you got stuck in a team with Zorodark.

    @Vai Lusa you were on a tear throughout this tour, dominating every opponent since week 1. Deserved to finish unbeaten but week 7 was unfortunate, good luck in future tours my man.

    @boudouche Great player, you weren't very active in chat but you managed to win week in week out. Good luck in future tours.

    @Kingler12345 I love having you on my team, everytime you spoke the in the chat it came alive and it's always fun ganging up on zoro with you/meeps/w3k. Thanks for everything, even though your record wasn't 7-0 as it should've been.

    @tko fellow baahubali fan and a REALLY cool guy, you were unstoppable at the beginning and even managed to bring a W in ubers week 7. We gotta meet someday bro, will be a blast.

    @Jellicent great guy, was nice getting to know you. Should've had a positive record if you didn't get lucked but I blame the tier. Gotta learn RBY from you someday!

    @Littlelucario very active in team chat, always willing to build and test. Definitely deserved to have a better record, good luck in future tours fren.

    @NAVIDAD PIRATE it's 2017 and meowmix is still winning pokemon games, absolute GOAT. For real though, you did better than I expected and clutched week 6 for us to give a fighting chance week 7.

    @We Three Kings it was great to have you at midseason, wish we had you sooner; thanks for the wins.

    @Zokuru You are a far better player than what your record shows, I had to force you to do GSC as we had no one else. Good luck in future tours, will keep an eye out for your success :)

    @Rumor bring back 2015 rumor, he kicked ass. 2017 rumor is only functioning at 20% of that level.

    @Vore Gidal didn't have the best of tours and died after midseason. Alas.

    others: @buny thanks for always having my back no idea what I'm gonna do with you; @Lacus Clyne the ubers queen, you were there for the team from week 1 and helped us along the way, thank you buddy; @TraceofLife you didn't say anything in chat but thanks for being there I guess lol.

    Finally a huge shoutout to @fsk and @Mr. Perry for hosting this tour as smoothly as possible, good job guys.

    Will post my UNBIASED predictions once the semifinals thread goes up.
     
  24. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Upon looking into the situation, it is pretty clear that the TDs made a decision that directly contradicted precedent regarding the two dead games in our series (see: 1 and 2). Both Alexander and TSR made activity posts in this thread and there was no form of countering to this by the opposing team while their manager offered our entire team wins against his players do not have willingness to play (was said in my channel, which the host is in, and you can ask z0mOG himself, I'm sure).

    Fitzy talked to fsk here, I spoke to Xdevo here, and our team chat logs discussing the matter can be found here. The precedent ignored is stated multiple times and it is clear that under the same rules, like situations should be decided in the same way time after time unless the rules are changed or redefined (they were not at all).

    Our team is basically protesting those two decisions, which would let us at least tiebreak into the playoff picture. It is very clear cut, so I hope that this is changed. If not, I really do not have any words for not getting wins when like situations in the past have given them and the opposing manager gave us wins, so yea.
     
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  25. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    If you post any sort of evidence for your players looking for their ops, you should be given the win; if you post any sort of evidence for the opposing captain and players saying they're forfing the week, you should be given the win. @fitzy, @Mr. Perry, @fsk, look for either of these things, if you find them present them to me and I will make the decision accordingly.

    The precedent cited does not match this situation since Esche very implicitly implied there was contact (no response ----> there has to be something to respond to, if it were contested and Esche were found lying, the win would be stripped; same post even had an example of a dead game for someone who did post in the thread). This situation is being contested, and there is no evidence that contact was ever made or attempted. It is completely unreasonable to expect to be given a win for doing nothing except posting ~3 hours before the deadline, even if you want to try to find precedent (afaik there is none for something of this specific nature), precedent is not law and can be overturned if the need arises (see: how literally every judicial system in the world works, Plessy v. Ferguson -> Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka). As much as I'd love to argue the semantics and minutia of what does or does not constitute precedent and how precedent can be applied to differing situations, I neither have the time nor the energy to do so.

    If ANYONE has any evidence they'd like to add, please do, until that evidence is posted I cannot undo anything as it stands.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2017
  26. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Finchinator and get backer like this.
  27. Void

    Void Well-Known Member

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    lol, seriously. you needed to 10-0 this week or you were out, and you were handed that on a plate. despite that, a couple of your players couldn't even do something as simple as leaving a vm message to collect their free win. just accept it, you absolutely do not deserve a spot in these playoffs, this tournament doesn't need to become any more of a joke than it already is.

    zomog or the 2 involved players saying they forfeit now means nothing. it's nothing but an afterthought for them at this point, it's basically just 'oh you needed those 2 wins to make playoffs? go ahead and take them then'. unless you have logs of these players saying they forfeited at some point during the week itself, or of your players attempting to initiate contact of some sort, activity wins should not be given for those games.
     
  28. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Given the above log, and the thing in the below spoiler, I've got enough evidence that z0mg intended to forfeit the week and that the players acquiesced to such, with this the two dead games are being turned into activity wins for the Gogoats.


    EDIT: You all are fucking impossible - just agree to a tiebreaker please.

    fsk-Today at 10:03 PM


    no idea
    beiying said he never know who his opponent is and never get anything from his opponent b4 he go to bed sunday night
    he lurked discord several times and got nothing
    but he also saw z0mog forfeit so he didnt bother the game either



    As such, the results of the semis will need to be changed. Various Captains have discussed having a tiebreaker BO3, I will wait until the Gogoat captains can get on to make a decision for semis, any delay will extend the semis.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  29. Void

    Void Well-Known Member

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    lol fr? it's incredible how lightly you're taking the act of flopping over and giving free wins once playoffs can't be reached. do you not realize what an unfair advantage the team who benefits from this gets? on smogon if this happened, the people who forfeited would be infracted at the very least and the results definitely would not stand.

    the gogoats players who made the effort to initiate contact deserve their act wins, there isn't anything more you'd reasonably expect them to do to get the games done, but for the 2 people who didn't bother whatsoever it's ludicrous to award them wins just because a team that has been out of this tournament for a while now turns around and says 'oh sure they can have the wins too'. i guess even the staff and hosts here don't really care anymore, to let stuff like this slide.

    e: i'm not sure if i can speak for the rest of my team but i for one cannot agree to a tiebreaker, because they simply should not be tied with us. as a tour director you should make the decision you think is right rather than hoping the players will come to an agreement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  30. fsk

    fsk Woke up after a long dream Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    Sorry about all the messes.

    Hereby I announced the Tiebreaker matches between Arsenal Arcanines and IFK Göteborg Gogoat according to the final ruling.

    Controversy arised among the two games between the Goodras and the Gogoat regarded as dead by the hosts previously in week 7, TSR vs ez and Alexander. vs beiyingtest.

    The Gogoat regard the two games as their act wins based on the following:
    1) there was a superficially similar case happened in powc where a forum post leads to an act win without the host actually confirming whether there is the said contact.
    2) the PO tour rule thread didn't include the exact word of "contact is necessary."
    3) Luigi / Get backer approached the Goodra manager z0mog and have him admitted that he forfeited all the games that wasn't played.

    1) and 2) don't hold, and despite 3) is reached, it is made when z0mog is out of context, and the Goodra player beiyingtest also claimed that he received no contact. In the end, if both games are ruled as Gogoat's win, Gogoat will be in play-offs while the Arcanines is out; otherwise, Arcanines is in and the Gogoat is out.

    After thorough discussions, the hosts deem the case too controversial to let a tricky act case to decide which team to proceed to playoffs, and a special tiebreaker is chosen over any other means. Note that this cannot be used as a precedence for future ruling.


    Both managers picked a tier, and SM OU is included by default. The line-up is as followed, with BO1 in each tier and first to 2 advance to play-offs.
    Arsenal Arcanines (1) Vs. (2) IFK Göteborg Gogoat
    SM OU: @Blightbringer Vs. @porygon2
    BW OU: @Void Vs. @Finchinator
    GSC OU: @sulcata Vs. @Jimmy Turtwig

    The deadline for the tiebreaker is the upcoming Friday Oct. 20th 11:59pm EDT. Sincere apology for every team affected and the confusion caused.

    Edit: @Void In the original case, the two games being ruled as dead or not directly decides which team goes to play-offs. Arcanines will be out if Gogoat got the two act wins. We deem the case too controversial to let a tricky act case to decide which team to proceed to playoffs, and a special tiebreaker is chosen over any other means. This decision is not open for debate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  31. deluks917

    deluks917 Member

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    The tie-breaker results don't affect the Wobbafetts and in the end TO decisions must be respected.

    On the other hand I mostly agree with @Void. The Gogoats needed a 10-0 to get the playoff spot. Its almost impossible to 10-0 a team that is trying. the way things broke is extremely unfair to the teams that played the Goodras early in the season.

    GL Arcanines. I hope you make playoffs.
     
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  32. Sapphire Saffron

    Sapphire Saffron Faerie Princess

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    My suggestion for whenever this tournament occurs next would be to treat it like most any other competitive game does. Play a round robin, but allow teams to drop. Nobody should be forced to play something they don't want to. Of course this will give some teams byes late in the tournament. Instead of this bizarro summation-of-point-differentials tiebreaker, just use the straight total of games won. Therefore byes are free wins, but they suck for your breakers. That's the competitive norm.

    Is it a perfect system? No... but it's a heck of a lot better than being rewarded even more by a luck-induced bye than a free win already rewards you. 'Twould also avoid the "it was somehow more ethical to play, goof of, meme, and throw your matches than it was to respectfully concede" conundrum.

    As for this year, I parrot the thoughts of the post above.
     
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  33. Genesis7

    Genesis7 Active Member

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    Blight won.
     
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  34. Jimmy Turtwig

    Jimmy Turtwig Member

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  35. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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  36. Void

    Void Well-Known Member

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    gg, sry team. prob could done better in that game. ultimately though we were put in the position of our playoffs spot depending on a bo3 because of some unfortunate odds in week 7 followed by some utterly incompetent hosting. idk why i'm getting sorta heated now after not caring about this tour for weeks, but i guess stuff like this shows exactly why no one cares. you're all great and i hope play with some of you again in a better tour.
     
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