[Gen 6 Other] Total Aids (Inverted Balanced Hackmons) Peak 1# 1800

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  1. fsk

    fsk Woke up after a long dream Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    I will be writing a math reseach paper soon although I would like to post this RMT early. (Basically to argue about tiering this tier a bit) So I will have to leave this undone and I will polish more and add more to threat list in the future.

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    Hi, here I am presenting an Inverted Balanced Hackmons team named TOTAL AIDS that peaks the ladder with almost no defeat.
    As we all know, the tier is here on PO perhaps due to the confusion ban etc and this is the default ladder for those carrying confusion moves. Therefore, from 1000 to 1300 or 1400 is not even a problem for any serious player; the thing valued on this ladder is the win rate against serious players, and a good understanding of the environment is necessary.

    History of the team
    Quite some time ago, I was laddering ORAS Hackmons and cannot find a battle, and randomly clicked on a match between @willdbeast or @holy break or perhaps someone else and get to know the tier a bit. Then I made up a team (which, retrospectively speaking, not good at all) and on that first day I won almost every top ladder player except willdbeast (which ends up as a PP stall game and I got less PP in general). So I feel like the ladder really needs some new invention/insight to be more fun to play.

    That first team was based on a Illusion Slaking pretending to be Shedinja and get a easy chance of setting up with Belly Drum and sweep the whole team once the shedinja of opponent's is gone or stealth rock is set on opponent's side. (Illusion with King's Shield/Spiky Shied also prevents Imposter Chansey from sweeping back even it carries Fake out to break Illusion) However, I lose to someone using a Unaware Mega Latios, when he stalled out and worn down the Slaking without taking any hard hit from it. Also, he carries a Destiny Bond Prankster. So this gives me the idea of the following

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    Poison Heal (Regigigas) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - King's Shield
    - Extreme Speed
    - Horn Leech​

    With Mold Breaker, Unaware Wall no longer works. With Priority +2 Espeed, Prankster Destiny Bond is no longer troublesome. With Belly Drum and the sheer power of Regigigas Attack with a STAB espeed which has no resistence in Inverted Battles, there is hardly any mons can survive a hit. The notable exception is Avalugg, which actually doesn't have a place in the Hackmon tiers due to its overall inferiority compared to Arceus-Ice.
    Therefore, I decided to make a team with this TOTAL AIDS sweeper as the VIP of the team.

    To provide some chances for the set up of the sweeper, and to do Imposter-proof, I utilize the special "bug" of PO which makes the Hackmon tiers a lot more fun, aka the imprison + baton pass combo. (I have already shaped the ORAS Hackmons tier with the war of imprison+baton pass vs baton pass chain, which is really amazing if u want to have some fun and get astonished :v)

    At the beginning, I use the Following Set:

    Arceus-Ice @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Dark Void
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Imprison​
    Usually, the game started as Arceus-Ice putting the opponent to sleep, and if the opponent had Chansey/Other imposter mons, use Imprison, otherwise use sub, then baton pass to Regi and begin the sweep. Most of the games ended like this even against top ladder players when they didn't know about this combo.

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    Then, there are some major threats that I need to deal with, and thus I will have to prepare my team against as many of the popular mons/strategies as possible.

    So I added the following mons
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    Arceus Normal with Magic Bounce and Rocky Helmet to switch into Shedinja, which usually do Parting Shot/Endeavor.
    Imposter Chansey to sweep against many unprepared team with a Setup/Contrary Sweeper but forgot about the Chansey proof.
    Arceus-Fighting chosen to be the unaware mon due to its resistance to Moody Mewtwo Stored Power and Psycho Boost Contrary Mewtwo which otherwise 2HKO arceus without any stat boost.
    And finally, Shedinja is a good answer to many major threats in the tier so it is there for convenience.(Although I never trust Shedinja since I always have a Mold Breaker Pursuit on all other teams, and this Shedinja is changed to sth. else later.)

    In the ealiest version of the team, Arceus Fighting has the following set

    Arceus-Fighting @ Safety Goggles
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heart Swap
    - Stealth Rock
    - Boomburst
    - Recover


    In this manner, it can give a late game sweep if the opponent doesn't have unaware and shedinja cannot get on with stealth rock already set up. However, I find this situation pretty rare in real game play. Also, when tetsing the team with someone spamming whole team Contrary mons and keep winning all the speed tie, and critted my arceus unaware to break the team apart, I was made to ponder the following and changed the team a bit:

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    Arceus Fighting took 25% from Stealth Rock, which makes it not all that reliable against some Contrary users and cannot switch in. So how about use a second Arceus Ice with a SPD+ nature?

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    Arceus-Ice @ Safety Goggles
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Heart Swap
    - Stealth Rock
    - Boomburst
    - Recover

    Then I go over all the major contrary mons to do the math:

    Things it can switch in:
    252+ Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Ice: 144-169 (32.5 - 38.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Mega Mewtwo X Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 165-195 (37.2 - 44%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 147-174 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO

    Things it cannot switch 100% safely:

    252+ SpA Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 165-195 (37.2 - 44%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (If V-create coming it, it can switch in and Heart swap)


    Things it cannot switch in even at full health:
    252 SpA Life Orb Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 191-226 (43.1 - 51%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 196-232 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 196-232 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Arceus-Ice: 172-204 (38.8 - 46%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    So even SPD+ Arceus-Ice cannot switch into MMY and many lilfe orb user. Although Arceus Fighting would do better against MMY, it does worse against Rayquaza and even 100% lose to Life Orb Sceptile once Stealth Rock took away its 25% HP.

    Also, once after 1 time boost, Mega Sceptil forces a speed tier win/lose against Chansey due to the 4* effectiveness.

    +2 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. +1 248 HP / 252 SpD (Chansey)Mega Sceptile: 720-848 (102.4 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    So I added the following set

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    Blissey (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Shiny: Yes
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Skill Swap
    - Perish Song
    - Fake Out
    - Whirlwind

    So the Choice Scarf Blissey is here just to stop such spammers. However, this made this team less effective against many other situations.


    Also, when thinking about deleting the shedinja, the team become much harder against Facade Poison Heal user. So I introduced MMY Protean with Ghost Plate Judgment to this meta (which seems to be very popular now) which I mentioned in @willbeast Peaking RMT: http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/inverted-balanced-hackmons-rmt-fear-unleashed-peaked-1800.33403/

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    The timid one can deal with Slaking
    252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slaking: 548-648 (108.7 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 392-464 (92.4 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
    252 SpA Spooky Plate Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 372-438 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Whihle the Modest one can boast a power to even OHKO Arceus
    252+ SpA Spooky Plate Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regigigas: 434-512 (102.3 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ SpA Spooky Plate Protean Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 408-482 (91.8 - 108.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

    This is very helpful considering the normal spamming in the tier. However, this effective sweeper can only force out Regigigas and cannot be a switch in. So the idea is soon abandoned.


    After more reasearch of the tier and more games played, the final Version of TOTAL AIDS is as the following


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    Poison Heal (Regigigas) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Spiky Shield
    - Extreme Speed
    - Horn Leech​

    Horn Leech can be changed to Boomburst, so that if after Baton passed to Regigigas, the opponent Boomburst user cannot hit Regigigas with Boomburst due to the move imprisoned. Spiky Shield chosen over King's Shield to break some Focus Sash User if the stealth rock wasn't successfully set up on opponent's side. HP kept as an even number to auto activate Sitrus Berry after Belly Drum.

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    Arceus-Grass @ Leftovers
    Ability: Soundproof
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spore
    - Whirlwind
    - Baton Pass
    - Imprison​

    Basically the Same thing as the old Arceus-Ice. Soundproof is chosen to go against my own set of Soundproof Arceus with Thousand Waves/Sand Tomb + Perish Song with Lum Berry/Safety Goggle which became popular after my introduction. Otherwise the set up is stopped by such Perish Song user.

    Also the dominant Move abused so much is Boomburst, which the Soundproof set can have chance to further set up if the opponent didn't know about the ability and click Boomburst.

    By Spore and Grass Type it no longer has trouble against Magic Bounce users. Although Hard-hitting Mons with Safety Goggles and move other than Boomburst is a potential problem.

    Whirwind+ Imprison + Soundproof prevents Whirwind/Roar/Parting Shot user to interfere its Baton pass to Regi. Also the grass type deals with the sometime presence Refrigerate and put them to sleep with Spore.

    Whirwind can be changed to Recover to stop Protean Boomburst + Judgment Mewtwo Y better. Although Spore+Imprison+Baton Pass to Chansey usually force it out and can have some safe time to get set up of TOTAL AIDS Regigigas to win the game before it wakes up again.

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    Arceus-Ice @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Heal Order
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind​

    Arceus-Ice due to its amazing typing in Inverted Battle, is the NO.1 stall mon of the meta, par eviolite Fur Coat Chansey. Since Primal Groudon is not banned in this tier, Contrary Primal Groudon with V-creat can easily Punch Holes to every team without preparation. The Adament Pdon V-create does 64.8 - 76.3% without any stat change to Arceus forms without Resistance to Fire type. So Arceus Ice with Whirwind can deal with it. (Some random players use V-create and Icicle Crash, which seems to be working but fails to do Chansey-proof)
    Also, with Magic Bounce and Rocky Helmet, Arceus-Ice is the switch into Shedinja, which usually do Parting Shot/Endeavor.
    Since Normal move has no immune anymore, Rapid Spin > Defog in this tier.

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    Arceus-Fighting @ Safety Goggles
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Whirlwind
    - Energy Ball
    - Recover​

    Arceus-Fighting chosen to be the unaware mon due to its resistance to Moody Mewtwo Stored Power and Psycho Boost Contrary Mewtwo which otherwise 2HKO arceus without any stat boost. I watched some random players on ladder using Moody Mewtwo Y with stored power and Bug buzz, which seems to be working but fails to imposter proof. Although usually Moody throws the game into dice throw due to possible evasion boost.

    Whirwind is to deal with Mewtwo etc, preventing to get recover PP stalled out.

    The Major Contrary Sweeper in the tier are Mega Mewtwo X/Y(which is dealt with by using whirwind) Primal Groudon(which dealt with by Arceus-Ice whirwind) Mega Rayquaza and Mega Sceptile.

    Quiver Dance and Energy Ball is the anti move against Mega Rayquaza and Mega Sceptile, which deals 4* effectiveness. Quiver Dance is chosen over Heart Swap since Mega Sceptile usually carries no speed boosting move and can 2HKO Arceus-Fighting with Life Orb after Stealth Rock is on our side. If Heart Swap is used, Arceus is still slower and cannot deal with Mega Sceptile successfully.
    Also, Mega Sceptile is some mon that eviolite Chansey cannot handle 100%: both 2hko the other after a +2 boost due to the 4* effectiveness of STAB Leaf Storm, and the game is thrown into a 50-50 if the team relies on imposter Chansey without choice scarf to prevent Mega Sceptile.

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    Primal Groudon @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - V-create
    - Facade
    - Heart Swap
    - Heal Order​
    Due to untrustworthiness of Shedinja, once it is trapped and pursuit to death by Mold Breakers etc., the team would have trouble dealing with Poison Heal Facade Regi/Slaking, which can 2HKO Unaware Arceus if with some good luck.
    252+ Atk Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 204-241 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO
    Therefore, Primal Groudon with Poison Heal is brought out as a solid check to such common sets. It can switch into Slaking/Regigigas and take a +1 Facade even the opponent choose Shift Gear. And during the turn of surving a +1 Facade, use Heart Swap to gain +1 Attack and +2 Speed. Then it can almost OHKO Regigigas or chanse KO Slaking with 1 hit of V-Create.
    +1 252 Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 417-492 (98.3 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Primal Groudon V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slaking: 444-523 (88 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    So if playing against someone familiar with the OHKO fact and you predict a switch into some Rocky Helmet user to worn u down, use Heal Order to recover HP in order to switch into similar situation in the future. Facade is there for convinience.
    Also, thanks to @チャンピオンワタル Lance, a skilled player of Balanced Hackmons who just got into the tier and proved to be a better player than almost everyone who was there, his Dark Void Poison Heal Regigigas is also total aids since it can put Imposter Chansey/Unaware with Safety Goggles to sleep. Therefore, Primal Groudon with Poison Heal is really getting important.

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    Chansey @ Lucky Punch
    Ability: Imposter
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Skill Swap
    - Heal Order
    - Wish​

    Imposter Chansey with Lucky Punch, which offers a 50% crit rate even after Imposter. Considering the amount of Chansey proof sets out there, I usually gamble with this set in extreme circumstances, to break opponents' Chansey-proof pokemon with crits. Considering that most of the major threat of the tier is already handled by other mons above, this Chansey basically aims at saving some games when you didn't predict well against opponents' sweepers and by winning the speed tie to have a chance of winning. (Although this hasn't happen to me personally when using this team)

    I'm currently working on a Viability Raning of this tier. Will elaborate more once I got time after I finish my math research.

    Seemingly troublesome to all teams, but can be dealt with:
    Mega Sceptile Contrary
    Mega Rayquaza Contrary
    Imposter Chansey
    Kyurem-B
    Kyurem-W
    Mewtwo-Y with Protean
    Poison Heal Regigigas/Slaking (Really popular recently, even someone introducing blissey with toxic orb)
    Shedinja


    Real Trouble of the team (and potentially to all teams out there)
    Mewtwo Y with Moody + Substitute and Taunt + Magic Bounce Arceus- Fighting Whirwind Combo on the opponent's side

    With Taunt, the usual way to stop MMY Moody with Whirwind no longer works if not with Magic Bounce. And usually after the reveal of Taunt, MMY already got at least 4 or 5 turn of boost when the magic bounce whirwind is sent out. And with a single boost on Spa, it is a OHKO.
    +1 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 25 SpD Arceus: 390-459 (87.8 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    But this set is only my own idea when I try to find a Cteam of my own team, which is not
    really out there in the tier. The way to deal with it is to simply change Unaware Fight arceus's Whirwind with Secret Sword, which can 2HKO MMY. Or use Magic Bounce Fighting Arceus with Whirwind instead.
    252 SpA Arceus-Fighting Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 260-308 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Primal Kyogre @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Primordial Sea
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Thunder
    - Judgment
    - Quiver Dance
    - Leech Seed
    The self Chansey Proof Kyogre with STAB Judgment under the weather boost, can simply 1HKO Arceus Forms after a single Quiver Dance Boost (if without Resistence, aka not Rock and Fire) and can win against Chansey with leech seed and the plate combined. Lucky Punch Imposter Chansey can deal with it if with great luck, but it is unreliable. One Can Use Desolate Land Primal Groudon with Lum Berry to deal with it and still keep a one time switch in for Regigigas Dark Void Poison Heal set.

    Magic Guard Shedinja with Endeavor + Focus Sash paired with Toxic Spikes.
    This is on another team of mine, which is also aids. It lure in the Rocky Helmet Mold breaker pokemon in, and Endeavor Kills with Toxic Spikes combined. Without preparation, most team would need to sacrifice 3 mons to stop it since there is no ghost immune to the normal type move in Inverted battle.


    (14:53:13) ±Porygon: Your rank in Inverted Balanced Hackmons is 1/5088 [1800 points / 227 battles, 224 wins]!
    One of the three defeat was addressed in threat list. However, the other two were actually due to disconnection when I was winning. One of the two disconnected game was when I was about to win with 5-1, but unfortunately I cannot log back until the timer let me lose. Wherever that DDOS guy Adam is, say F*** to him :v
    http://imgur.com/vUKGjN3
    Poison Heal (Regigigas) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Spiky Shield
    - Extreme Speed
    - Horn Leech

    Arceus-Grass @ Leftovers
    Ability: Soundproof
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spore
    - Whirlwind
    - Baton Pass
    - Imprison

    Arceus-Ice @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Heal Order
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind

    Arceus-Fighting @ Safety Goggles
    Ability: Unaware
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Whirlwind
    - Energy Ball
    - Recover

    Primal Groudon @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - V-create
    - Facade
    - Heart Swap
    - Heal Order

    Chansey @ Lucky Punch
    Ability: Imposter
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
    Bold Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Skill Swap
    - Heal Order
    - Wish

    In the end, perhaps ironically, I am asking for a quick ban of my own Regigigas set :v Ideally, Belly Drum +Extreme Speed on any Normal Mons with considerable physical attack base should be banned. Also I am also asking for a suspect discussion of the poison heal Slaking/Regigigas paired with dark void, or poison heal Slaking/Regigigas with leech seed and Facade in general. The idea behind the dark void/Leech Seed Poison Heal is the same as the Poison Heal Kyogre in Balanced Hackmons, and this strategy has been very centralizing recently, forcing players to carry more lum berries and more gastric acid, more magic bounce with whirwind etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
Moderators: Edna, fsk