Pokemon Español banned from the registry

Discussion in 'Help' started by Rabidragon, Jun 16, 2016.

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  1. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

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    Hi, my name is Rabidragon and i want to expose a recent problem that has raised in the hispanic community, more exactly the ban of the server "Pokemon Español" (ip: 149.56.111.99) from the official registry, i hope that an authority can read this

    For starters i want to apologize for posting this here, im aware of the fact that this is maybe not the correct section, but this is a special case that i dont wanted to post in the disciplinary committee due to the fact that this involves several persons and a community in general (feel free to move this to the section that do you think adequate, although technically im asking for help)

    I know that the time of the owners is valuable so im going to resume the situation as much as possible:
    Im just a regular user of Pokemon Online, i only have 3 years in this game, logging almost daily, sometimes for more than 12 hours per day, im not the oldest one or the best at playing but im relatively well known in the hispanic community because i frequent all those servers, the situation is that around a month ago the most popular hispanic server was suddenly banned from the registry by an auth called Steve that is in charge of that, the reason is because he received a letter from the owner of another server, more specifically "Pokemon Online [ESP]" which many of you may identify as the "official" server of pokemon online in spanish

    I want to leave a link with a copy of the letter that the owner of PO[ESP] (A person named Purry) sent to Steve, is not necessary that you read it but im going to include it as a reference:

    http://pastebin.com/4yEaTeTC

    Basically in that letter Purry accuses the owners of Pokemon Español of launching DDos attacks against his server and of the continuous crashes that her server has, but without presenting any real proofs other than suppositions which are not really valid because the people in Pokemon Español doesnt have any real motive to do it or even the resources, not to mention that Pokemon Español has suffered of attacks like that several times (the beta has suffered of such attacks too, that if you are informed are almost always done by a guy called Adam which of course is not related or affiliated with Pokemon Español or any server), other claims in the letter of Purry include things related with modifications to the basic client which are not valid since the client is OPEN SOURCE, so everyone is free to do any change that they wish or need, specially if those changes are used only as tools by the developers in a privately owned server. i could try to clarify point by point all the supposed accusations of the letter of purry if necessary, but also i want to solicit a link to a rulebook, TOS or guide explaining what things the private servers are allowed to do and which ones not, because i ve searched several times in the site and i cant find any info related with it, if someone could be kind enough to pass me the link im going to be grateful,in case such document doesnt exist then is suggested that private servers have freedom to customize their servers in any way they need or wish, of course between the line of legality and common sense

    Now as you can see the accusations of Purry are very weak, however Steve decided to immediately ban Pokemon Español from the registry not even giving the owners a chance to explain or expose their points, he simply banned it and since then he refuses to even talk about the issue with them,

    Now i want to leave something clear: IM NOT ONE OF THE OWNERS OF POKEMON ESPAÑOL, im just an occasional collaborator that helps them in some mundane areas like the design of banners, and im mostly neutral with all the servers, then you may ask "why you are posting this?", and the reason is that the ban of Pokemon Español was a hard hit to the hispanic community

    Currently Pokemon Online in general is under a crisis that we cant hide, im one of the lucky persons that managed to see the beta server with more than 1500 connected persons, and is sad to see it now just in 350, the numbers have decreased, but me like many others are still here because we love this game, believe it or not the hispanic community has always been an important sector in the history of pokemon online, with hispanic servers always present in it, is alarming to suddenly see that one of the last and most dedicated servers in PO has been banned for absurd reasons, specially since a lot of hispanic players have left the game as cause of that, affecting even more the decreasing number of players in pokemon online, that you must agree we need to protect

    Someone is probably going to say: "but, dont you still have pokemon online [ESP]?", and the answer is yes and no, because altough the server exist is highly unstable, im not exaggering when i say that the entire server was never online for 24 continuous hours, normally it opens for around 3 or 4 hours and closes again, which is weird and makes me think if a supposed "official" server with the endorsement of the authorities of pokemon online is supposed to work in that way, you can check the list in this moment, probably a "pokemon online [ESP]" server is in the list without working, showing by the way that the alleged attacks against the server are no more than a simple problem with stability in their general systems

    Here an example:
    3 of those servers doesnt work because they crashed so they open new ones each time, and believe it or not theres even a 4th server at the bottom that is not pictured here
    [​IMG]

    Im sorry if i enlarged this post more than necessary (and for my bad english if applicable), but i wanted to expose the situation, as i said the owners of Español have tried to talk with Steve but he simply refuses to talk, many of the persons in the staff of Español are demoralized and almost leaving the project seeing that theres nothing they can do (remember that they even paid for a private VPS, and now they feel that even the money was throw to the garbage), im just posting this as a last resource in hopes that some owners can review the case and give it a solution, many demoralized persons have said me that is useless and that im losing my time, but i believe that any effort matters, specially because i know that im not the only person that loves this game, and we are only asking for our right to have fun again...

    Sincerely and in representation of the Hispanic community: Rabidragon

    (Additional notes: The owners of PE are informed about this post, they have read it and can give more details here if necessary, also im aware of the fact that there are some problems with the registry these days and some servers are not appearing, however the ban of PE was around a month ago, so thats not the reason for not appearing in the list, but precisely because i suppose the auths are working in some stuff in the registry i wanted to expose the case now)
     
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  2. MidwayMarshall

    MidwayMarshall woof Forum Moderator Developer Forum Moderator Developer

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    The game is indeed OPEN SOURCE, and anyone is free to edit and compile the code. That doesn't mean those edits are tolerable to the code of ethics of the developers/owners of PO. Are pm monitoring, user spoofing, player count spoofing, battle hacks for auth and password collection tolerable edits to you? (Just examples not saying anyone particular did this)
    Some of those in question have had history and have been warned over their actions before, so a complete ban isn't out of the blue. Even went are far as to accuse PO host of doing a "9 player registry spoof"
    If those registry banned want to talk it out there is the disciplinary community over evidence/warnings they can.
     
  3. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

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    Well, thanks for the answer, first i want to leave clear the motives of posting this here and is because PE is owned by multiple persons, with 3 main programers and a vps administrator that are the main owners and responsible to maintain the server, and the disciplinary committee section specifically says that only the person that posted the problem and the staff of PO can view the post and review the case which in this situation is a bit problematic since multiple persons are involved and im acting as a mediator due to the fact that part of the staff is not good with english (not that im an expert as you can see, but i agreed to help them), you can count me then as part of the staff since i said from the start that i helped them a few times and i had access to their scripts so i know in a big part all what they have done

    Now returning to the main issue i must agree that various of the things that you mention are probably not tolerable, except in cases where you know the context, im going to put as an example the part about the monitoring of private messages that is one of the only things that we indeed modified at one point, however is false to think that the owners where spying on persons all the time or just for fun, since that command was designed with security motives, principally with the intention to stop the bullying against some users via PM, basically when a user was accused multiple times of spam or bullying via PM an owner sometimes monitored their PMs to determine if was true and how aggravating was the action as well as to see if a sanction or a warning was applicable or not, as you remember some old versions of android doesnt have a function to ignore a person, so this was a very handy tool to stop this type of behavior, however such command was discarded completely a few months ago when we determined that with the new function to ignore persons in android it was no longer necessary to have it

    When a person enters in a private server is not hard to figure that all the data that you send needs to pass through the host at some point and that is possible for the hoster to have access to it, as far as we can think other servers may have tools like that, or even the beta, who knows?, but what is really important to mention here is that the reason for what PE was mentioned is because we PUBLICLY ACCEPTED that the server had those capabilities with security purposes, if someone took the time to check our rulebooks they could find a section related with molestations via PM in which we leave clear that the PMs of the users could be monitored in case there are suspicious of bad behavior, i know this because i personally wrote 90% of the rulebook of the server, so any user in the server was technically informed of this and if any of them think is a violation to their privacy to have their PMs monitored in case of molesting other users then they could simply use another server with different politics, nobody forced them to accept that, and as we said such commands where later discarded

    I also want to leave clear that Steve never banned us (or at least never said that it was the reason) for such command or any other, he specifically tell us that our ban was because we did DDos attacks against the server of purry, accusations without presenting any real proof of that from Purry or from Steve, if you check the letter of purry (that i dont even know if steve really read it or just banned us) you can see that she never shows anything to proof that we attacked her server, his only argument is "my server crashed the other day and camilo/saskex were online, its such a coincidence, so they surely did it", im amazed to see that steve really banned the server only with that "argument"

    You mention something interesting that is "The game is indeed OPEN SOURCE, and anyone is free to edit and compile the code. That doesn't mean those edits are tolerable to the code of ethics of the developers/owners of PO" that is completely understandable, we respect any politic or rule of pokemon online, if you tell me that spying PMs is not allowed or that we cant have an "onix" command then we are fine with that, theres no problem, we can simply stop doing it, we always play by the rules

    The real question here is: who determines what is ethic and whats not?, you?, steve?, coyotte?, the entire staff?, for us it seems ethic to monitor the PMs of problematic users to protect our more younger players (specially the girls that are constantly molested) and give them a better experience, but apparently you or the rest of the owners dont think the same, and you know what?, is perfectly fine, we all have different opinions, but what is important here is: how are we supposed to know what is ethic for you or for the staff?, or even how are we supposed to know that we need to follow your ethics in our private servers in the first place?, i already asked if someone can please give me a link where the politics regarding private servers are explained, im going to thank you if you can please give me a link to such information, because i already checked the readme and all the information included with the program, the wiki, the F.A.Q., the github page with the source code and a big part of the official guides in the forum and i cant find any information related with that or such "code of ethics", how we can break a rule that we dont know?

    I think that if such information was never available then is not fair for us to be banned, the correct action should be to warn us and inform us to stop doing that, because as i said steve never informed us exactly why he banned us, he banned us the first time for accusations about DDos attacks but he never said that there are something wrong with our commands or scripts, this time was not different, i mentioned the part about the commands due to the letter of Purry but as far as i know steve has never warned us about that, only about the attacks that we have never did...

    Again i want to leave clear that our commands are only functions that work in our own server and that in no way affect anything in the beta or other servers, we honestly never mess with any of them, we are not asking much, only to be unbanned from the registry, something that was our right for many years, and also we promise to follow any new rules that you think adequate to add, as long as you clearly inform us about them of course

    Thanks again, i hope we can get a solution
     
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  4. R.Zoro

    R.Zoro New Member

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    Intentaria escribir esto en ingles,pero como mi ingles es bastante justito a la hora de expresarme y como mi respuesta es para ti,creo que en español bastara.

    Es "gracioso" como empiezas hablando como representante de la comunidad hispana de PO(no se quien te dio el titulo) y acabas hablando como representante del staff de PE.Ahi ya veo que te interesa realmente.No intentes ser el paladin de la comunidad cuando son razones personales las que te impulsan.

    En cuanto a la carta de Purry,no es de Purry.Es del staff de PO ESP,al cual pertenezco.Asi que dejad de centrar las acusaciones en una sola persona.Si las pruebas que se han presentado son o no validas,es evidente que nunca nos pondremos de acuerdo,asi que no voy a discutir ese punto.Alguien me dijo una vez que hay 3 soluciones para el comportamiento de otras personas:la violencia,la extorsion y la ley.Nosotros acudimos a la ley de PO.Y la ley actuó.

    Hablas de una necesidad etica y moral de espiar los PM de ciertos jugadores,pues representan una amenaza contra la inocencia de los menores de edad en general y contra las chicas/mujeres en particular(esto si es gracioso viniendo de ti).Y realmente es un motivo noble.Hasta que se deforma y se retuerce para justificar lo injustificable.Porque una cosa es vigilar el contenido de los PM para evitar problemas y/o acosos y otra muy distinta guardar los logs mas comprometidos para hacerlos publicos y reirse de la gente.Y bien que deberias saberlo,pues por lo que se tu sales en dichos logs.¿Esos logs que el propio staff de PE ha hecho publicos no son una amenaza contra la inocencia de los menores?Y ya no digo nada de la de veces que se ha negado que se espiaran los PM,llamando paranoicos a los que lo decian.

    Preguntas que es etico.Y dices que lo que es etico para mi puede no serlo para ti.Y ahi tienes la razon.Y te dire que no es etico para mi.Que con el "argumento" de:"Este es mi server y aqui hago lo que me da la gana",se justifiquen las mentiras,los engaños,la falsedad,la intencion de controlar a las personas,de lo que hablan,de lo que hacen,etc.Y todo eso adornado con un victimismo y un complejo de Dios que por momentos es muy ridiculo.Te pondre un ejemplo muy sencillo de lo que quiero decir.Imaginate que yo abro la puerta de mi casa para que entre quien quiera,para que sean mis invitados.Pero a cada persona que entra le tiro un cubo de agua helada.Y lo justifico con un "mi casa,mis reglas".¿Defenderias ese comportamiento?¿Dirias que es etico?

    Y ya termino.¿Quieres que vuelva PE?Perfecto.Pero no intentes decir que todo lo que puede no ser etico para los demas es por el bien comun.Y no intentes ocultar que andan bordeando la frontera de continuo,traspasandola la mayoria de las veces.

    UN SALUDO DEL MEJOR POSTEADOR QUE CONOZCO
     
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  5. Zoroark

    Zoroark Stay Firm Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    Translating above post because of Forum's Rules, also by request:

    "I would try to post this in english but since it's not really the best when it comes to express myself and since my answer is directly towards you, posting in Spanish will suffice.

    It's "funny" the way you start talking as the representative of the Spanish community in PO (Not sure who gave you the title) and you end up talking as the representative of PE staff aswell. I see you're quite interested in that. Don't try to be the community's "paladin" when you're only driven by emotional reasons.

    Regarding Purry's report, it's not from Purry alone, its from PO ESP's Staff, to which I belong. So stop aiming accusations towards a single person. If the proof shown is valid or not, then it's obvious that we will never get to agree on anything, so I'm not going to argue about that. Someone once told me that there are 3 solutions to people's behaviour: Violence, extortion and law. We turned to the law of PO, and such law made it's action.

    You talk about an ethical and moral need of spying the PM's of certain players, as they represent a threat against the innocence of the minor aged in general and towards the females in particular (this is actually funny coming out of you). And it's actually a noble reason, until it distorts and twists to justify what cannot be justified. Because one thing is constantly monitoring PM's to avoid problems and/or harrassment and a way different thing is keeping the most intimate (or committed) to make them public and make fun of people. And you should know better, since you also appear in those logs. Aren't those logs shown by the staff publicly a threat against the minor aged ones? I won't say a thing about how many times the decision of Spying PM's was rejected, calling "Paranoid" the ones who were against this.

    You ask "what is ethic". And then say that what is ethic for me can't be ethic for you, and you're right, and I will tell you what is not ethic for me, the Statement of: "This is my server and I do what I want" to justify the lies, the tricks, falsity, the intentions to control people, about what they do, about what they say, etc. All this well decorated with Victimhood stance and some sort of God complex that in some moments is actually ridiculous. Let me put you a simple example of what Im trying to say. Imagine that I leave my house door open so anyone can freely enter, receiving them as my guests, but to each person that gets in is welcomed with a bucket full of cold water thrown to them, and as a way to justify myself I say "My House, my rules". Would you defend this behaviour? Would you say this is ethic?

    And to finish this, do you really want PE to come back? Great then! But don't imply that everything that can not be ethical for others is for the common well being. And don't hide that you guys are continously on borderline, crossing such line most of the time.

    SHOUTOUTS TO THE BEST POSTER I'VE MET."
     
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  6. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

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    Since Zoroark already translated your post and you said that you understand english then i suppose is ok if i answer only in english

    For starters i want to say that first i presented myself as the representative of the spanish community since the necessity to post this surged with the continuous reclaims of a lot of users for not having a stable spanish server, and obviously is true that i dont represent all the community but i talked with a lot of persons and after a recompilation of all thoughts of dissatisfaction we decided that it could be a good idea to try to talk with the auths of PO to try to recover PE (You are not going to deny that the dissatisfaction of the users is true, or are you really going to tell me that everything is fine?), i then changed the form to refer to myself as the representative of PE due to the comment of MidwayMarshall where although not directly, he suggested that a post like this must be done only by the owner(s) of such server and since i really want that my petition could be revised with seriousness i accepted to be one of their official representatives, so at the end both titles are correct and incorrect, does it really matters?, you can negate me a title but you cant deny that everything that i posted is true

    Is funny to read that you say that i have personal reasons to do this, and of course i have them, i want to recover the old hispanic community and give them a space where they can stay again and have fun, i dont know what type of personal interests do you think i could have (if you can share them its going to be appreciated), do you think someone is paying to me?, or that im looking to have power in a server?, i dont know if you really think something like that because if you would know me at least a bit you should know that im always in a neutral position with all the servers and that obviously includes PE and [ESP], you are not going to deny that, i was offered to have a position in PE multiple times, the same in LA, the same in Pandora, and you know what is funny?, that at some point [ESP] also offered me to be part of their staff, and you know what?, i always refused to be part of any of that, and anyone can confirm that, or are you going to deny that i was always connected and present in your server even in the toughest times?, i was online in your server sometimes even for more time than your real staff, sometimes even more time than you, and i always helped a lot of new users in your server and in PE without expecting something in return, i never caused you any problems, can you or your staff say me the contrary?, everyone knows that im just an ordinary user in PO that just comes to have fun everyday, you are the owner of a server and you are talking in favor of it, is perfect, is your right, and im just an ordinary user in another one where im talking in favor of them because is also my right, the words of who do you think have more credibility?, the words of who do you think have more personal interests?, i dont know why suddenly some persons think that by defending something i have a personal conflict with them

    You mention that you only used the resource of the law, well, im only using the same resource too because we have the right to do it, you already had the right to have a representative, to make an accusation and to present an argument, which ended with the ban for our server because we never had rights like that, so now im here to be their representative, to present our arguments and to present our defense, we cant have a real sense of law if we dont hear all the arguments by both sides

    Now lets pass to the interesting part, i knew someone was going to mention that incident with the logs, do you really know what happened?, we had an owner that tried to abuse of sensitive commands like that one day, and when the other owners discovered it, they immediately decided to remove him any authority status because thats an example of intolerable behavior, still he found a way to access to our VPS and he took a bunch of logs and posted them publicly as a revenge, needless to say that he was completely banned and we were forced to even invest some money in a brand new vps simply to cut any connection or future incident. he is not welcome in our server since then, you can confirm that he is not part of our staff and that the incident happened months ago, not 3 weeks ago when our server was banned from the registry, also you are right, one of the robbed logs was mine, so basically i was one of the affected persons and im still helping them and talking in their favor because i know it was just an unfortunate incident, you are an outsider and you are crying so much for something that happened months ago in which you were not even involved and you dont know what happened, is so noble from your part to try to defend me but thats not necessary, so you dont need to mention it each 5 minutes like purry with so much rage, unless you have any type of personal interest in keeping PE closed, i dont know... :)

    Im glad to see that you agree that the ethic is something different for everyone, thank you very much for supporting my point :) , and yep, sometimes a lot of person use arguments like "this is my server and i can do whatever i want", that as long as is not messing with the rights of others i dont see why it could be something wrong, a lot of times CX (owner of [ESP]) has said me things like "rabi, your opinion doesnt have a value here" or he has kicked me just for fun, i already know that from now im probably not welcome again in your server for defending PE , because you all see this as a personal conflict, but what can i do?, saying that is not fair?, going with a owner of PO crying that people are mean with me in other servers and that CX and all the staff is evil :(?, what do you think would happen if i do that? an auth is going to ban your server?, probably everyone would laugh, what makes me laugh is that we were banned for a situation similar to that, purry simply sent a letter saying that we are mean and that we had evil plans, that was all her argument, im amazed when you said me that such letter was wrote by all the staff in your server and nobody even cared to include at least a proof of your accusations other that "camilo was online when my server crashed!!!", more impressive is the fact that steve read that letter and gave us insta-ban forever

    Now lets analyze your example of the bucket of water, you have an interesting taste of choosing examples (but i love those type of imaginary scenarios :)), first why you would enter the house of a person?, if its your friend and you trust it then you probably know that he can throw you a bucket of water so its fine, in another scenario why you would accept an invitation of an strange to enter his house?, if you decide to enter his house then you are in private property and well if in that house people have the tradition to randomly throw buckets of water to their guest well theres nothing you can do, specially if such neighborhood doesnt have any law against that, and more importantly if you already know that and you decide to enter the house again then is your fault, do you think that is logic that such person would go to the nearest police station where he knows one of the polices and then a S.W.A.T. team raids such house sending such man to prison forever?, i dont know in your contry but here is not a crime to throw a bucket of water in your house, the man that does that would probably get (in the worst and most extreme scenario) get a small warning from the local commission of national environment and probably receive a few educative pamphlets with information regarding the global warming and why he needs to be more careful with water... ....again im not sure why im overanalyzing your weird example in such weird way, maybe because the scenario in which the man ends in jail for such dumb thing reminds me to our current case...

    I noticed that you and purry constantly use words like "liars", "falses", "manipulators"; etc... and again makes me feel as if you are seeing this as some type of telenovela like purry says in her letter, is funny at some extent, but what i really want to ask is if we are such bad persons why our server was always full?, if we are just a bunch of liars that dont give our users a nice experience why they keep entering to our server?, if you are the "good guys" and your server is wonderful and full of whatever niceness we dont have why it never has people in it?, your server has had so much time to establish himself, you even acquired the endorsement of PO to be the "official" server in spanish and still the people refused to stay in your server, are you going to always accuse PE for that too?, a month was passed since PE was removed from the list and even having the path empty you havent developed a functioning server with loyal people, again, if we treat the users sooo bad as you claim why they simply always preferred our server and not yours?, take all the time that you and anyone reading this needs to think an answer, i wouldnt be surprised if someone says something as ilogical like that all the more than 50 users that in average where connected at all times in our server were simply bots XDD

    To finish this im going to clearly say what i think: The ban against our server as i probed multiple times was not genuinely justified, you dont have any proofs of such accusations of DDos attacks or a real argument to justify that we did something wrong, the only reason for what your letter ended in a ban for us was for the fact that you have something that we dont have, and that is contacts, if another server would go crying with an excuse that someone is DDosing their server an auth would probably ignore the problem because they dont mess with issues related with private servers since the guides clearly say that any security issue is responsability of the owner of such server, and im not inventing that now, if someone takes the time to explore the archives in the forum they can see that when a problem like that occurs the answer is always that "each server is responsible of their own security and that PO and their authorities dont have any responsability", the only reason for what an identical accusation this time ended with an insta ban for us was because purry knows Steve, not to mention that they have various beta mods affiliated with the server (Memo, Phoenix, Zoro), and i think they are abusing of that fact to have a clear favoritism towards them, simply banning the competitors for absurd reasons, and thats why i think my petition is not revised even when i showed that we are clearly innocent of any accusation and ive seen that various auths have read this topic, i just have hopes that maybe they are simply discussing the case in private and that we are going to get a positive answer and get our server unbanned

    Im convinced that not all the authorities in PO are affiliated with Purry and that someone is genuinely going to revise our case and do the correct thing that is to unban our server, you my dear owner that are reading this can do the correct thing, returning the fun to a lot of users in the process that are going to be forever grateful u.u

    Thanks to anyone that read this long post until the end....
     
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  7. Zoroark

    Zoroark Stay Firm Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    Apparently I have been mentioned in this, which is something I kinda saw coming, also lol? Both Phoenix AND Zoro are me. Not sure why are you putting me here, but I serve no significant role whatsoever regarding what happened lately. When memo had the idea of PO ESP I simply gave him my support on his thoughts, and when the server became a thing and was running, and since it was supposed to run with the Beta's scripts, but in Spanish. I offered him my help if he ever needed the whole scripts to be translated to Spanish. I can't remember what else happened there, I spent most of my time on Beta dealing with my duties as usual, I just hopped on PO ESP now and then to talk with memo and friends, but at some point I saw the script was changed for easier handling (or at least that's how I saw it). About how purry got auth there I honestly don't remember nor care about it. So yeah, I simply supported the creation of PO ESP, and that's just it, nothing else, I didn't even become part of the staff there, so I know nothing about whatever happened between that server and Pokémon Español.

    If you have logs of me abusing the "favoritism" by begging to Steve so he could ban Pokémon Español then bring them, because I don't recall such thing happening, and if it ever happened, it was probably during the time when Morty was in control of the Server and this one suffering several attacks from hackers continously.

    And since I was mentioned here, I guess I should put my two cents regarding one specific thing:

    The fact that someone is actually able to see other people's Private Messages, regardless of whatever the reasons are, and from my Point of View, constitutes a violation of the user's privacy, I believe it is not necessary to do such things when basic actions like Screenshotting and reporting harrassment or tracking and banning evaders is a thing, the PM ignore is also a thing, so in short words there are many ways to stop rule breakers and improve the experience of people without violating their privacy, the intention may be good, but the method is far from being normal. Just imagine how stressed and uncomfortable a new user would be if they ever realize that every single word they say could be checked at any moment, and much worse, that could be made public? I'm not supporting any side here, I'm simply stating my opinion towards this action.
     
  8. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Rabīdoragon
    Well i never claimed that im sure that the auths of PO have a favoritism towards the server of purry because as you said i dont have any real evidence, and without evidence someone cant claim an affirmation as true, thats why i specifically said that it was only something that i suspect seeing that even with all the strong arguments contrasting with the paranoid claims of Purry we are not getting a solution in our favot, i never said that such auths specifically supported the ban of our server and the letter of purry, i simply said that they have a small list of contacts that include various auths in the beta and that they could use them in their favor, im sorry if my comment was misunderstood

    however i want to keep insisting that in all this conversation and after i wrote countless paragraphs clearly explaining the situation no one has refuted any of my points, they dont have any evidence that we ever attacked their server which was their main claim (and without evidence a claim cant be taken as true, remember?), half of the post of zoro is just a bunch of technicisms, like "rabi you cant have the title of representative" , "rabi, the letter of purry was wrote by all the staff", or "rabi, is ethic if a person thorws a bucjet of water to a person in his own house?", things that in no way are even remotely related with why we should still be banned, and judging by the likes i suppose thats the best someone has to say, i just want to make notice that even after exposing my arguments they have a strong desire to keep our server closed, is even as strong as my desire to have it opened again, i was expecting something like "well rabi, we understand your points, maybe we misunderstood the situation and our accusations are not completely correct", but i see that they are going to keep their attitude to see us closed until the end at any cost, sad...

    By this point i think that is very clear and obvious that they dont really have evidence or a decent argument to justify that we deserved a ban, or by this moment they could already have showed it shutting my mouth since my first post, they only have the incident with the PMs that at best is a dubious small violation that is not grave enough to justify a ban since i already stated that

    A) The command was designed with security intentions taking into consideration the limitations of the android system, and not as a harmful tool, even Zoro confirmed and agrees that "ethic" is a dubious concept that may be interpreted differently

    B) The command was discarded months ago and is no longer in use, is really valid for a sanction to be applied after all this time has passed?, if i post for example something that incriminates the server of purry but happened the past year her server could get a sanction? (hypothetically), how old an incident can be to be relevant?

    C) It was a tool that only worked in our own private server and in no way affects the server of purry or the beta

    D) At some point we included information about the tool in our standard rulebook, easily accessed by a common command by any user where the existence and the clauses of the use of such command were revealed to the public, any person had access to such information and by using our server they accepted that, as you can agree any user has the responsibility to read all the local information of the server that they visit, an example is the beta server where you should know that breaking a rule due to not knowing or reading the rules is not justifiable, every user has that obligation and the private servers are not exception, our politics are just standard protocols seen at daily in all internet, a good example is the cookies politics of this forum that states that by using the page they accept such politics, a lot of persons probably never read that, but is obviously not the fault of the service provider if their users are lazy, i can bet that purry or zoro never took even the time to fully read our rulebooks

    E) The only real incident with such command happened months ago, but it wasnt a big deal since i was one of the "affected" and as you can see i still support the server, does a person that was not affected really ask for a punishment?, is like if a friend accidentally gives you a punch in the head, is valid for just an observer to maniacally try to get a punishment for the guy even when the affected person says that he is fine and that he doesnt have a problem with what happened?

    F) Such incident was caused by a person that was no longer part of our staff at the time of our ban, we applied the appropriate sanctions to him and he was banned since that, why our server needs to pay a sanction for a very old incident even when the responsible is no longer in PO?, do you reallu think is fair?

    G) Steve never informed to us that the reason for our ban was even remotely related with such incident or command, he limited his information to tell us that we did DDos attacks

    F) Theres not such rule or guide that says that we cant do what we did, we simply acted in agreement with the standard Open Source license that was the mode in which the game was released/distributed and we have followed all the additional and basic rules of the manuals of PO, we understand if the developers only agree to put in their registry servers that follow their "code of ethic", however there was no way for us to know that and as i previously explained (and a member of the accusing party agreed with me) ethic is a relative concept that is seen different by all the persons, so it was also imposible for us to determine what is ethic for the developers, zoroark is an example of person that understands this concept and in his comment he cautiously writes "in my opinion" knowing and showing that the opinion of what is ethic can differ from person to person and that is not an universal law or concept that a single individual can claim as the correct one, so basically if we dont know that we are breaking a rule and the information related with such rule was never announced do we really broke a rule?, we understand that the staff cant write a guide for everything, but if such information was omitted i think that giving us the maximum sanction (a ban) is not the correct action to take, dont you think?

    Those are my arguments, as you can see they are pretty solid, even when im the defendant here is funny to see that the attackers are the ones trying to find even the most remote hole in my declaration and keep pressing just in that knowing that they have nothing else to work around, well, i suppose i already left my points clear about that, if anyone still wants to mention the issue related with the PMs i kindle invite them to read again that list of points and tell me that why they think that im wrong, just a reminder: having a possible comment to refute any of the points doesnt automatically refute the others, so think very carefully in the others if you think we still deserve to be banned

    Again i still hope that an auth could see our points and agree that we never deserved to be banned, also im still waiting for the evidence from Purry/Steve/Anyone that claims that we are responsible for the DDos attacks, a month has passed since our ban and 2 days have passed since i posted here and we still dont see such evidence

    Thanks to anyone that took the time to read until the end
     
  9. Alipio

    Alipio -Sab-

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    -Sab-
    Hi everybody,

    I'm Cx the one who is in charge of PO [ESP]. And I feel sorry for not answering before, I thought it was not needed, but now I change my mind :) & I'm gonna try to explain everything point by point.


    The first thing I wanna clear out is that We don't "kick by fun", we don't use mod commands unless is needed. Examples? Excessive swearing, inappropriate content, offenses, etc. I think that is not necessary to post examples of PE people behaviour on our server, because everybody here knows them & no one can't deny it. So they were punished for a reason: bad behaviour.

    Now talking about what you have just said: --- rabi, your opinion doesnt have a value here or he has kicked me just for fun --- The only time I kicked people with no mod reason is when I had to close the server. Then the thing about your opinion had not value here is simple, We refer to your comments that are always just for complaining about a decision that We didn't take, banning PE, a decision that was made by PO not by us! We can stand that you disagree with that decision, but provoking (with your comments) a battle between your people and our staff is something that we won't allow. All of you can express your points of view, but foment chaos, quarrel and discussions with no sense is a lack of respect, and all the attacks against Purry are the best evidence of your attitude.

    Now talking about what my staff had already spoken:

    - Bots on PE?: Really? You are going to deny it? I don't need to say a thing about it, why? because Steve & PO main staff noticed it without we saying a word. So again, PO decision.

    - Monitoring PM's: The only way to watch it is by changing the source of your PO server. Ok you used it to monitor the content? Good for you! But well, there are people who will see it like unethical & not needed, but like you say, points of view. The only thing that have not point of view is people privacy and the idea of someone watching it is violate their rights.

    - Attacking us: Well, We received DDoS, Spamming, Offenses, etc, etc... You watched it so many times and you don't say even a word, because, well you are the only one who know the answer, but when someone says something about your PE or your friends, you run quickly to defend them, I think this shows the way you are & maybe I'm wrong, but that is not neutral, or is it? :)

    Finally I want to say some words & I hope that this would be the first and the last time I have to say it.

    You want your server back? Ok, good for you, work hard to get it! But stop bothering us, stop complaining against us for all your mistakes, stop coming to our server to attack us, stop stalking us with offensives pms, stop talking about us, show what you really want for a server and let PO decide. I wish you the best & I hope you get what you are really looking for.

    With nothing else to say Cx is out! :3

    PS: Treat others as you want them to treat you.
     
  10. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Rabīdoragon
    Quick answer because i already wrote a lot and i dont want to bore the readers more than necessary specially since you havent said anything remotely useful or relevant:

    Point 1: I dont care if you kick me or not or whatever you do in your server, i was just putting of example of behaviors in other servers, you have kicked me for fun, or you have told me that my opinion doesnt count for example when i gave my opinion about the mod of Life, still the point here is that it doesnt matter if i think your rules/behavior is the adequate or not, your server, your rules, and nobody is forcing me to accept that, if i dont like something then i simply dont enter, nobody is forcing me to accept that, the difference is that you and your staff are not respecting that right and sent a complain which ended in the ban of another server for absurd reasons in which you deformed the information, again i must leave clear that im not attacking in any way your server, and the day that you are banned for an absurd reason you can be sure that im going to defend your server too

    Point 2: Im not provoking anyone, as i said from the start you and your people are the only ones that see this as something personal and all your post here simply prove that, i mentioned your server and your people because you were the ones that sent the complain, and if im going to refute said complain i need to inevitably mention the people that sent the letter, you are the ones that suddenly are posting comments here in my topic called "Pokemon Español banned from the registry" in the section where the auths help the users, in no moment i labeled any of you to come here since this is not a discussion with you or your staff, this was a post intended to be seen by the auths to recover our server, my intention was to talk with them, show the letter and explain why i think we deserve to be unbanned, in no moment have you seen me telling things like that your server needs to be banned instead of us or something like that do you?, if you or your people suddenly come here to attack my post with the intention to keep PE closed for a reason that i dont understand, then you are in all your right, but dont come to my post telling that im the one searching for a fight, if you respect the authority of the auths of PO then why you dont leave them to be the ones that refute or that answer if we deserve to be unbanned or not?, if you come to a topic where the unban of a server is solicited and began to sabotaging it who is the one looking for a fight?

    Point 3: How you or steve have determined and can show evidence that we use/used bots?, i havent seen that, and the only "evidence" was a screenshot in the letter of purry where 4 persons are in our server, what proves that?, how do you know that those persons are bots and not just sleeping persons?, if they are bots how you can know that they are ours?, so no conclusive evidence = no justified motive to get the maximum sanction

    Point 4: Related with the PMs, if you have any opinion please read my last post, points A to G, it took me more to write it that for you to read it, at least you can try to do it if you want to express an opinion

    Point 5: Related with the DDos attacks, you are not showing any evidence, and you dont even have a screenshot of any of our staff admiting that we DDosed your server simply because we never did it, again, i dont know why you mention it then...

    Point 6: How is relevant to the unban of PE if you or anyone really believes that im neutral or not?

    Point 7: Im not bothering you, you and your people came here, i never have attacked your server and i have never sent an offensive PM to you, even more exactly i only received 1 pm from you and purry in all my life and i never had the intention to talk with any of you in PM, do you really think that i care of what you think of me?, do you think that it affects me to see that now all your people hate me just for defending your rival server?, dont make me laugh, im just doing this because i believe in something called justice, if being the defender of this server causes a conflict of interests with the ones of you or your people and you now want to see me as an enemy then theres nothing i can do to change that, im just doing what i believe is correct

    NEXT
     
    Kobalion likes this.
  11. R.Zoro

    R.Zoro New Member

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    1-Thanks to Ascari for translate my last post and sorry for the extra work.I will try to explain my point of view in english now.

    2-Have we to stay quiet and in silence when you are calling us paranoids in every sentence?when you are attacking Purry in every point?Our arguments in the letter wasnt good?You are trying to undermine our credibility(thanks google) in every post without arguments.With our letter,we sendt a lot of screenshots.Have you seen them? I doubt it.Or are you just ignoring them?

    3-Are you talking about justice?REALLY?Where is that justice in spying PMs?You said that you saw PMs only from poblematic users.Are you one of those problematic users?Because there are logs of your PMs...

    4-We cant talk without evidences,but you can acuse us of having PO staff eating from our hands(idk if this is correct,but you understand me) without evidences.Just one more thing.PURRY IS BANNED IN BETA.

    5-I dont hate you.Dont think that you are important.I know that you are only a puppet here.After all,"AMA FELIZ,CONEJITO FELIZ".

    6-Good job Cx.This is the first time that you whrite something good.I am not going to give you a like because you are too nab for a like.

    7-I am not going to waste more time on this.So please,dont answer me.

    8-Sorry for my english,i do what i can.

    9-I KNOW THE BEST ENGLISH POSTER,AND ITS ME!!
     
    Serga likes this.
  12. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Rabīdoragon
    1-Well thanks to Ascari

    2-You are the ones that came here, this is a post to discuss the unban of the server that i represent not a ring between your people and me, if you dont want me to undermine your comments then simply dont post here, and what screenshots?, one where our server has 4 persons that you cant prove are bots?, or the one where gary said "#ComeBackPE" in your server once and its your problem if you dont banned it?, or maybe you are going to say that the log where purry goes specifically and publicly (log that purry included for some reason) to accuse us in our own server that we did DDos attacks, act that obviously we never accepted because we never did it and we even tried to help and tried to say that maybe the images in base64 are the ones causing the crash but she keeps bothering with the same stuff and she ends banned by us because is our right is an evidence of something?, if you dont like to see me refuting each "evidence" or "argument" that you had then stop presenting them to me here, or at least say something different, im tired of saying why none of those "evidences" are valid,

    3- Scroll to the post #8 in this topic and read the points from A to G

    4-Is so sad to hear that purry is banned (im crying right now), however this is my post related with the ban of a server not a post where you can discuss your personal problems, i invite Purry or you to open a new post called "Purry is banned ;-;", probably in the disciplinary comitte since thats a case where only a single individual was included, if you need help with the defense i could help (maybe)

    5- Im so relieved to hear that you dont hate me, and yep, "ama feliz, conejito feliz", however is false to think that im a puppet, thats not how "rabi-tarzan foot masseuse of the jungle" acts, remember that

    6-No comments

    7- Im glad to hear that, you are smart after all

    8-Is a good english, probably even better than mine

    9-NEXT
     
    Kobalion likes this.
  13. Kobalion

    Kobalion Vox Pópuli

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    koba
    Here is a pastebin that proves it is all a personal matter by which they fabricated and took out of proportion old things so that Steve would think we were assholes.

    http://pastebin.com/w3ue0c3G


    Thanks for your attention.
     
    Rabidragon likes this.
  14. ZoroarkShade

    ZoroarkShade Living in the New World.

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Devsaider
    Mi punto de vista:
    1- La contradicción de los publicadores de este tema no me da motivos exactos y señala hechos que Morty provoco, además de que "casualmente" ambos solo tienen la moral de Pokémon Online [ESP] y no la del público.
    2- Pokémon Español nunca adopto la "pornografía infantil" ¿Estas excusas ya no son falacias?
    3- El público que prefirio a Pokémon Español decidio no entrar más a Pokémon Online [ESP] lo que indica que lo que querían conseguir con este cierre NO fue en vano
    4- Pokémon Online no siguió el protocolo perfecto.
    5- El tema de los bots , ahora un buen ejemplo de todos:
    [​IMG]
    585 Usuarios "Online".
    [​IMG]
    Realmente, 329 usuarios. ¿Nos están timando?


    6 - Nosotros bromeando, pero ¿Lo tomo de malas ganas? el buen ejemplo del servidor.
    [​IMG]

    Ahora, lo mismo de siempre, le resto importancia lo que haga este servidor.
    De por sí ya no están para dar mas por que otro servidor les gano el juego
    ¿Pero que querían ganar con esto? Su mal ejemplar y poca responsabilidad llevo a su servidor a una mala reputación que por medio de una "huelga" por preferencia a Pokémon Español la audiencia se a inmutado a entrar a su servidor.

    Quieren "mantener " la comunidad hispana, apodándose los "representantes" como si esto fuera un sindicato,
    dedíquense a conseguir una reputación apta antes de cometer severo entierro.

    ~ Y todos saben que sus personales no les agrada a los usuarios ;)
     
  15. Zoroark

    Zoroark Stay Firm Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    SkyPhoenix / Zoroark
    Te sugiero que dejes de postear en español. Puesto que esta contra las normas del Foro. Si quieres quejarte de lo que quieras pensar, al menos usa el traductor de google.

    [Beginning of translation]

    "My Point of View"
    1- The contradiction of the people who posted regarding this topic doesn't give me any exact reasons and points out only things that Morty provoked, besides that "casually" both only have the morale of "Pokémon Español [ESP] and not the morale of the rest of the people.
    2- Pokémon Español never adopted "Child Porn". Aren't these excuses nothing but Fallacies?
    3- The playerbase that used to log into Pokémon Español decided to not log into PO ESP anymore, which means that whatever you wanted to get with this closure was NOT in vain.
    4- Pokémon Online Did now Follow the Perfect protocol.
    5- This topic about bots, a great example for all of us:
    [Respective First Picture]
    585 Users "Online"
    [Respective Second Picture]
    Really, 329 users. Are you guys kidding us?

    6 - We were kidding, but, I think he took it the wrong way? The great example of the server
    (Side note: The log from [DT]Raizen is directly insulting Cx)
    [Respective Third Picture]

    Now, as always, I don't mind what this server does.
    They can't give anything else because another server just beat them.
    But what do you guys want to get with this? Your bad example and poor responsibility took your server to a bad reputation, that through a "strike" towards Pokémon Español, the users refuse to get into your server.

    You want the hispanic community to "Stay", nicknaming yourselves as "Representatives" as if this was a Sindicate. You should instead get a reputation before committing a severe burial.

    And everyone knows that users don't like their personel."
    [End of Translation]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  16. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    So for people who might care about this but don't have 7 hours to read everyone's life story, can we get a tl;dr other than a server is banned from the registry?
     
  17. Zoroark

    Zoroark Stay Firm Forum Moderator Server Moderator Forum Moderator Server Moderator

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    PO Trainer Name:
    SkyPhoenix / Zoroark
    I think the main idea is that they want their server back. But seems like they can't help it to add a bunch of other stuff that makes the main topic completely confusing.
     
  18. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Rabīdoragon
    To resume things: In my 7 hours of posts nobody has said a reason for what PE must remain banned, simply because they dont have anything to say or simply because they dont want to read all those blocks of text, even the initial accusing group doesnt have an argument, so knowing all this, dont you think the most appropriate and fair decision to take is to simply remove the ban?, i mean, it literally takes like 5 minutes to remove it and end all this, an action that is also going to be of great help to the PO community in general

    I dont see any of the auths having something against the lift of the ban, and i suppose that you are included, so i dont really see the problem.

    This topic was extended so much due to the lack of an official position, at least we want to hear a definitive answer to our petition, even if it is negative (with the reasons of such decision if possible), thats all we want to close this
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  19. Strudels

    Strudels ・◡・ Super Moderator Server Administrator Super Moderator Server Administrator

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Strudels/Ripper Roo
    Old registry bans were cleared recently. If you can put the server back up and everyone stays out of trouble then there shouldn't be any further issue.
     
  20. ZoroarkShade

    ZoroarkShade Living in the New World.

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Devsaider
    08/19/2016
    PE was again banned from registry ...
    And this time we were in maintenance without users ...
    I do not know what the reason is again ...
     
  21. Rabidragon

    Rabidragon Sakura's pet in Liga America

    Joined:
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    PO Trainer Name:
    Rabīdoragon
    Try to talk with an authority first, i thought this thread was closed and the original issue was resolved, if it happened again then is a new and different case that shouldnt be discussed here since all the previous posts are now full of outdated info that may cause confusion, so is not educate to revive this old thread every time it happens

    I was satisfied with the resolution of the original petition, but since im no longer informed about the activities of the server since it was reopened i dont want this new case mixed with the old one that was resolved, specially since this thread contains a lot of now unnecessary information, so if an auth is still reading this please close this thread when possible to avoid any future revivals
     
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