Hello Safari, and welcome to the first Pyramid Viability Rankings! "What is the point of Viability Ranking?" To decide which groups of Pokémon you can use to make you most justified in raging when you lose to RNG. "How do I post here?" You can contribute by suggesting changes in ranks for various Pokémon. Be sure to back this up with evidence, such as: "One time Kakuna found 100 candy dust in an Empty room, so it should be S tier." "That sounds complicated. How else can I help?" Just use this thread to talk about Pyramid in general. Ranking Council: i pmed some ppl on the server S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who are extremely helpful and impact the metagame in a major way. These Pokemon can either fulfill a variety of roles or are superlative in performing one task on a team. Mega Altaria Swampert Blaziken A Rank: Pokemon generally perform very well in the tier, but have some minor flaws that prevent them from fulfilling their roles consistently. Although helpful, they usually require a bit more team support than S-Rank Mons. A+ Aegislash Aurorus Venusaur Zapdos A Drifblim Greninja Keldeo Hydreigon Scizor Togekiss Thundurus A- Articuno Dragonite Gourgeist Froslass Poliwrath Shiftry Skarmory Empoleon Klefki B Rank: Pokemon usually have some sort of major flaw that prevents them from being a more common presence in the Pyramid. However, they still are able to perform their roles very well with proper team support. B+ Bisharp Charizard Chesnaught Masquerain Moltres Noivern Salamence Smeargle Torterra Virizion Weavile B Chandelure Cobalion Emolga Lanturn Magnezone Garchomp Raikou Rotom B- Archeops Azumarill Galvantula Kingdra Lucario Steelix Talonflame C Rank: Pokemon have notable niches in the metagame, but usually require significant support. These Pokemon face competition for their roles from the higher ranked Pokemon, but can find still find use. Abomasnow Xatu Ferrothorn Gardevoir Gliscor Gyarados Tyranitar Blacklist: A special place for the Pokémon which while seeming viable, don't actually have a practical use due to inferiority complexes or just being bad. Infernape inb4 sued for plagiarism
What device are you on? I got Mega Altaria from a different site, but it appears the same size 32x32 for me. For Infernape, Blaziken is just superior because it can do hazards. Blaziken is in S tier due to its vast versatility, with two 4x effective hits (Ice and Steel) for Statues, excellent synergy with other top tier mons who need Steel and Dark types removed (as in Hydreagisken) for both Hordes and Mystery Mons, and an impressive repertoire of 5 Hazard moves. Although Infernape can do most of these roles, Blaziken can clear Plants, Flamethrowers, Boulders, Ice Pillars, and Darkness, while Infernape can only clear Flamethrowers and Ice Pillars. If Blaziken didn't exist Infernape could be A or A-, but it's too outclassed to be viable if you have the choice. I /guess/ you could justify running Infernape if you already have the other 3 Hazards covered, but the extra 4 BST isn't worth the effort.
Add placings for these, in their Mega forms they become far more viable in Pyramid than their original form. Mega Gyarados (much stronger Greninja, less hazard moves) Mega Ampharos (3fluffy5me) Mega Sableye
I saw Gourgeist listing B on this list IMO its a pokemon that deserves to be in the higher tier pokemons. The ghost type works really well with random attacks and grass is a good fill since the metagame lacks some good grasstypes. Right now they have overlaps with other S rank typings, (fighting and ground which are covered by blaziken and swampert) Ghost does also overlap, but if you are not using Aegislash, Gourgeist can give you some good coverage over that and bring a good grass to the table
Where should these rank? Afaict Mega Gyarados is only missing Echoed Voice compared with Greninja. The BST difference is significant, but this doesn't matter during Statues and Mystery Mons, which is when I think you'd use a Dark/Water most. I could see justifying A- for Mega Gyara though, 1 HM for 110 BST is about even. Mega Ampharos definitely gets a spot for being a good Electric (there are so few). Dragon is a pretty bad type vs Statues, and it only gets 1 HM, but it will be useful vs Mystery Mons and Hordes. It deserves a spot above Raikou, but it's not exceptional in anything. B+ maybe? Mega Sableye seems outclassed by Spiritomb by 5 BST. Neither of them get any HMs, but two 4x hits (Psychic/Ghost) can't be overlooked. I'll also add Dedenne to B+. Fairies and Electrics are both pretty scarce, and it can add a lot of coverage to Dark/Water/Flying Mystery Mons. Gourgeist does stand out as a decent Grass in a meta where Grass is pretty bad. The reason I didn't list it higher is that it's outclassed in almost every aspect, and only useful as a very specific role-player. For HMs, it gets only Disable, and while Fences are probably the hardest to clear, Chesnaught can also clear them with Mud Shot. I disagree that Gourgeist is good for Defense Rooms: it gets 6 resistances and 5 weaknesses. This is rather mediocre, and as far as Ghosts in that tier, Rotom gets 7 resistances and 3 weaknesses, and in Grasses, Ferrothorn has 9 - 2. Gourgeist is probably best with Statues and Mystery Mons, but Shiftry has slightly better coverage. Overall Gourgeist does have a niche though, so I'll consider bumping it up to B+.
Well, first off, I'd bump Greninja up to A+. It's got a shitload of hazard moves and as you said, Water/Dark is fantastic for hiddens/statues. As Mega Gyara's about even, I'd put it in A+ as well, very top notch considering the parallels. (why doesn't BST matter?) B+ sounds fine for Mega Amphy, and by extension Dedenne. Rather rare typing, but it's helpful for when the situation arises. As for Sableye, you're right. I'd add these few as well in some capacity, after this I'll leave ya alone aha. Mega Charizard X Mega Pinsir Mega Sceptile (Mega) Metagross
I don't understand the hype over Greninja. It gets 3 hazard moves, which isn't bad, but it's certainly not top tier because of that. Water/Dark I wouldn't say is fantastic for statues. It has 5 SE and 6 NVE and none of those are 4x effective. I can only think of a few Mystery Mons that are weak to Water/Dark also, and those often have better options to hit them with. Overall I don't see a reason to put it in A+ when it's at best above average at a few tasks. Edit: It gets 4 HMs, oops. Maybe A. Have you ever used any of these? I'm sure these have niches, but it's hard to go on just theory for unique pairings like Charizard X (same reason I don't have Dialga in S). Is there anything that distinguishes Mega Pinsir from other Bug/Flying?
Slaking works pretty well in inverted challenges so it should be placed here aswell, dunno what rank tho lol.
From my pastebin quick guide. I'm sure this team can be improved but it is a good starting point for people new to pyramid. If you don't have articuno then replace it with another flying type. Articuno Torterra Aegislash Klefki Swampert Hydreigon Blaziken Aegislash Togekiss Stuff: Floor 3 or higher use steels for hiddens Highest hp does loot rooms - use a pokemon that doesn't share types with the show pokemon Hydreigon + Aegislash is ideal for hordes. If either is available then bring it. Wait a turn to use second clue unless very vague clues. Often times it can be plugged into veekun after the first 3 hints. Bring steels for defence rounds. Plants: Razor Wind, Slash Water: Powder Snow, Surf Boulder: Superpower, Telekinesis Toxic: Defog, Mist Pit: Fly, Vine Whip Ice: Heat Wave, Chip Away Flame: Hydro Pump, Vacuum Wave Electric: Disable, Mud Sport Dark: Flash Cannon, Echoed Voice
This thread has been dead for a month now, so I dunno how ok it is for me to bump this, but it's still relevant, so... I got to 5060 points and 7-4 with the following team: -Swampert, Blaziken, Aegislash -Klefki, Articuno, Chesnaught -Aegislash, Hydreigon, Torterra I actually disagree with this set up, because Team 1 is helpless against attacking Water opponents, and Team 2 is helpless combating Fire. Also, in old Pyramid, I've heard that Aegi-Hydrei-Blazi was universally one of the best, if not THE best to take out hordes. But I don't know how much of that is still true nowadays. Whenever I try that combination out, it seems to get perfect clearance a lot less. That's not even considering the type bans hordes sometimes put.
(04:24:33) fitzy: plants - poison powder (04:24:33) fitzy: water - misty terrain? (04:24:33) fitzy: boulder - Drill run (04:24:33) fitzy: toxic - twister (04:24:33) fitzy: pit - string shot (04:24:33) fitzy: ice - scald (04:24:33) fitzy: flame - gust (04:24:33) fitzy: electric - discharge (04:24:33) fitzy: dark - shadow sneak
Updated the tier list to reflect updates. Venusaur wasn't even ranked before lol. Posting a bit of reasoning for the more important changes. Mega Altaria A+ -> S - Irreplaceably strong in hidden and defense rooms. Also pretty good in hordes and hazard rooms. Hydreigon A+ -> A Dragon not as dominant anymore in horde rooms, and horde rooms are really the only thing Hydreigon is exceptionally good at. 4x Fairy weakness makes it risky to use in hidden rooms. In defensive rooms, it has to deal with a lot of random Bug and Fighting moves (lots of stuff gets random Fury Cutter or Brick Break). And it has ZERO 4x attack types, meaning it's actually pretty bad for statue attacking. Blaziken S -> A+ Okay, Blaziken is clearly one of the best mons. It get 2 4x attack types for statues/hiddens (Ice and Steel) and is even surprisingly good in Defensive rooms. Not to mention a plethora of hazard rooms. I just don't think it has the same absurd usefulness of Swampert and Mega Alt. I think Swamp and Alt should be on every team is possible, whereas Blaziken is, while by all means useful, not irreplaceable. Aurorus A -> A+ Aurorus is about as good as Blaziken, maybe a little less. It gets a 4x attack type, and is insanely good at smashing statues. In hidden rooms, defense is a bit of an issue, with lots of Steels and Fighting types to look out for, but if you read a Flying type it will die. Dragon is also very common. But even better is Aurorus' hazard move pool, which has a unique combination of Discharge and Powder Snow. These HMs are pretty uncommon (see: viable Elecs and Ice) so they don't overlap much. Aurorus is also a champ at Inverted battles. Aegislash S -> A+ Aegislash is a one trick pony. It has awful HMs. It has beyond horrific offensive potential, especially on statues. In defensive rooms, it isn't even the best option imo (Skarmory is better), but it sees a lot of use anyway. I would drop Aegislash to A but people would freak out too much. The one thing it is really good at is turtling in Hidden / Strong rooms. Unless you can't read a Primal Groudon or Mega Camerupt you're pretty much safe from disaster, while resisting all the Psychics/Flyings/Dragons/Fightings in the legendary pool. Scizor B -> A Great HMs, it's useful to be able to hit Plants twice. Only 1 weakness, which means it's great to use in the endgame where at 2x hit will kill you anyway (because who cares if it's a 4x hit at that point). Also pretty good in Hidden / Strong room. Venusaur ??? -> A Amazing HM pool. It can clear 2 Pits without even using up your slot for Fly. Poison Powder and Grassy Terrain are also fantastic, because they're so freaking rare they never overlap. I could buy an argument for A+. Not to mention being able to hit Fairies in a Horde where Steel is nerfed is very useful. --- I am also wondering where to rank the Nidos. They seem like they should be B+/A- with the ability to smash open Boulders, but they don't have much else going for them.
Er some Suggestions.. Mantine : ??? -> B- Learns a good amount of HM's though the typing is not excellent.Needs more Testing though. Skarmory : A- -> B+ Learns a fair amount of HM's but its typing causes many problems.Get hits by neutral moves most of the time while in defense compared to Aegislash. Venusaur : A -> A+ Unique combination of HM's (String Shot/Poison Powder/Grassy Terrian/Vine Whip) and does good work in Hazard Control Teams most of the time.
Do we have a list of what moves clear what hazards? Also do you have a suggested team for people who never Pyramid and don't know what teams to bring?
@Joeypals!! 's team should work http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/34890/#post-481743 No megas or legends required. Most of my teams nowadays use Mega Alt so they aren't ideal for beginners unless you have a stash of mega stones. Mantine for B+. It's at least as good as Masquerain. Skarmory is better in defense room than Aegislash. Skarmory: 6 neutral, 2 weakness, 10 resist/immune Aegislash: 2 neutral, 4 weakness, 12 resist/immune While Aegislash has overall more resistances, Skarmory is less than half as likely to take a super-effective hit. Two of the weaknesses Aegislash gains, Ground and Dark, tend to be on a lot of random attackers through Mud Slap and Knock Off/Fling. Electric, Ice, and Fire tend to be on elemental attackers which are easily read (if it's elemental punches for instance you can use something like else). Skarmory also is part of a Skarm/Swamp/Mega Altaria horde combo which beats literally everything except pure Ghost. Only downside is Skarmory's horrible BST which makes it lose matches it should win, like Espurr and Tauros. Hydreasishpert is maybe a bit better overall (it loses to Dark and Gliscor but has higher BST overall) Venu should probably be A+ but I'm not sure yet. I should also add Drifblim (forgot about it) to A or A- I think for its hazard moves. It's decent in defense rooms as well.
Plants-Razor Wind/slash/Poison Powder Water Stream- Powder Snow/ Surf/Grassy Terrain Boulder-Superpower/ Telekinesis/Drill Run Toxic Gas-Defog/ Mist/Twister Pit-Fly/Vine Whip/String Shot Ice Pillar- Heat Wave/Chip Away/Scald FlameThrower- Hydro Pump/ Vacuum Wave/Gust Electric Fence- Disable/ Mud Sport/Discharge Darkness- Flash Cannon/ Echoed Voice/Shadow Sneak
I think Blaziken is safe to put back on S It does enough stuff to qualify as it is(For one Plant and Flame being hardest hazards to deal with reliably), but it's overall p good multi-purpose anyway , and steel statues are threatening to the point where they alone would make it S even if it didn't have so many others roles and/or Mega Access. Sableye All To Blacklist since Spiritomb has higher bst than even mega Sableye and has same HMs I think (Shadow Sneak and Telekinesis)
Articuno B+ -> A- Blaziken A+ -> S Greninja A- -> A Keldeo A- -> A Klefki B -> A- Venusaur A -> A+ Zapdos A -> A+ Dragonite A -> A- Empoleon A -> A- Torterra A- -> B+ Drifblim to A
I will update this soon, because a lot of mons got buffed in the update. The changes are posted here for... reasons. There are three main changes you should know about: Hazard rooms: On the surface hazard rooms' difficulty has been increased. They deal more set damage if not cleared, and can have a higher rate of hidden at lower levels. Also, abilities can clear hazards.Additionally, a new hazard, Barrier has been added. The list of hazards and what can clear them now reads: Code (text): 0. Plants - Slash Poison Powder Razor Wind + Tough Claws 1. Stream - Surf Grassy Terrain Powder Snow + Swift Swim 2. Boulders - Superpower Telekinesis Drill Run + Telepathy 3. Gas - Twister Defog Mist + Snow Cloak 4. Pit - Fly Vine Whip String Shot + Levitate 5. Chip Away Scald Heat Wave + Flame Body 6. Flames - Gust Hydro Pump Vacuum Wave + Flash Fire 7. Fence - Discharge Disable Mud Sport + Sand Force 8. Dark - Flash Cannon Echoed Voice Shadow Sneak + Illuminate 9. Barrier - Iron Head Bulldoze Teleport + Infiltrator Lastly, you can only encounter 9 of these hazards per run. The hazard you do not encounter is determined by the last digit of the number of the last Pokémon in the leader's party. For instance, the leader bringing Venusaur in the third slot (#3) prevents you from encountering Gas. Use this to expand versatility amongst teams. Statue rooms: These deal less damage, but take longer to clear. They also deal less damage to each player after sustaining heavy damage.Also, the third type will not be revealed until it is broken, so be ready to use your math skills to figure them out. Flower Girl: Use this costume to make single-type Pokémon perform better. It buffs them in most rooms. Overall changes: Tweaks to damage in rooms. Notably Puzzle rooms can deal a lot of hurt now. Trainer rooms also deal damage at a higher rate without a perfect score.Also, earlier floors deal higher damage, so it's important to stay focused from the beginning.You are less likely to encounter the same room twice in a row.That's all for now, let me know if you have any questions in the thread!
Wow, this got outdated. So we had a conversation on the server and came up with this kind of update to the rankings given some new stuff. Top tier (ordered) S++: Swamp S+: Mega Altaria Blaziken S: Magearna Skarmory Zapdos Venusaur High tiers (not ordered) A+: Hydreigon/Togekiss/Aurorus/Empoleon/Articuno/Drifblim/Tapu Koko A: Aegislash/Greninja/Scizor/Charizard/Poliwrath/Chandelure A- Masquerain/Rotom-N/Dragonite/Salamence/Mantine/Froslass/Mega Metagross/Mega Garchomp Mid tiers: B+ Arcanine/Tyranitar Tapu Koko and Magearna are fairly untested and mainly theoretical, but they are somewhat common now so worth a shot. Spoiler: Breakdown by room effectiveness Top TiersRankTotalHazardDefenseHorde/TrainerStrongStatueMega SwampertS++461179610SwampertS++441078610Mega AltariaS+425109108BlazikenS+421077711YveltalS40881086MagearnaS392111196ZapdosS3999777Giratina-OS401091074DrifblimS-3898498WhimsicottS-3888886Rotom-FanS-3889777Tapu KokoS-38598106High TiersRankTotalHazardDefenseHorde/TrainerStrongStatueSkarmoryA+37610975VenusaurA+37107767ArticunoA+37104599Tapu FiniA+37910954HydreigonA+36671085TogekissA+3658887ChandelureA+36107766TyranitarA+36551088ShiftryA+3676887GolurkA+3667887Mega AerodactylA3595768GreninjaA3577876FlygonA3596686FlorgesA3558886MimikyuA3538897EmpoleonA3469887LugiaA34105766ScizorA3498674Rotom-WashA3497765Rotom-NA3486677FroslassA3496586CrobatA3498566Mega GarchompA3466886WeavileA3444998VolcaronaA3496766JellicentA3459866Primal GroudonA34469510DialgaA34510982Alolan SandslashA3384777AegislashA3349974LatiasA3387963PoliwrathA3398547AurorusA33815910MantineA3397656DragoniteA3367965Mega Charizard XA33871053CharizardA-3266668Rotom-CA-3285577Rotom-HA-3284677Rotom-FrostA-3283489Mega MetagrossA-3268954GourgeistA-3237877AbsolA-3296575KyuremA-3246688GalvantulaA-3296377Mega SteelixA-3298933RibombeeA-32 8798DrilburA-3296366MamoswineA-3275677HeatranA-32561064 MasquerainB+3196466SpiritombB+3157487CameruptB+31367510KrookodileB+3126887GolduckB+30107643KingdraB+30107643GliscorB+3077754Alolan NinetalesB+3063489Alolan GolemB+3036489ZekromB+3048954ShedinjaB+3077385HaxorusB+3078762TyrantrumB+3026886KabutopsB+3095466DiancieB+29 21098HoundoomB+2936776StunfiskB+2967556TornadusB+2967754BearticB28101377TropiusB2895464ArcanineB2856764SlowbroB2896643VenomothB2796354ClaydolB2776446NidoXB2776356RaichuB2746377MismagiusB2756565ArmaldoB2794455KartanaB2739933BisharpB2737764SurskitB2798244Alolan ExeggutorB2775663Farfetch'dB2796543Kommo-oB27171045ParasectB-2674474QwilfishB-2668543HariyamaB-2675545JynxB-2643576GengarB-2656564GardevoirB-2673376TorterraB-2664565LudicoloB-2666356MagnezoneB-2646844 MewC+25125233Mega AggronC+2548823ExeggutorC+2575563DragalgeC+2548742Kommo-oC+251410 Alolan RaichuC+2546375PinsirC+2474554VolcanionC+2455644VictiniC+2436654LucarioC+2437752SerperiorC+2455653MarshadowC+2417754RhyperiorC+2463456NincadaC+2445465ChesnaughtC2345653CradilyC2344555DewgongC2365354BuzzwoleC2326555MagcargoC2332567NosepassC2354356NihilegoC2312677CrabominableC2333557SmeargleC22153 4 GalladeC2274542DrapionC2237552WigglytuffC-2136552ProbopassC-2153544TerrakionC-2124645 PangoroD2055532HawluchaD2037523HelioptileD2046253SalazzleD1834335MalamarD1855242AbomasnowD1734334LunalaD1614443TrubbishD1626323GirafarigD1556121ToxicroakD1435411
We just finished ranking 74 Pokémon on their viability, now it's time to make it all outdated! Updates (12/16/2019): Anagram Rooms: Types must be revealed - at least one of the two "bad type" Pokémon must be dual type. Hopefully this doesn't crash! Strong Rooms: Now have 3 difficulty levels - basic, megas or formes, and all-inclusive. That means at higher levels Alolan/Galarian formes can appear, and megas won't appear on floor 1. It will tell you what subset can appear, so keep that in mind! Hazard Rooms: Code (text): fence -> mechas: lose sand force, mud sport. gain telepathy, signal beam boulders: lose telepathy, gain sand force barrier: lose bulldoz, gain minimize ice: lose flame body, gain thick fat pit: lose vine whip, gain power whip dark: lose flash cannon, gain moonblast The hazard room anthology now looks like this: Code (text): 0. Plants - Slash Poison Powder Razor Wind + Tough Claws 1. Stream - Surf Grassy Terrain Powder Snow + Swift Swim 2. Boulders - Superpower Telekinesis Drill Run + Sand Force 3. Gas - Twister Defog Mist + Snow Cloak 4. Pit - Fly Power Whip String Shot + Levitate 5. Ice - Chip Away Scald Heat Wave + Thick Fat 6. Flames - Gust Hydro Pump Vacuum Wave + Flash Fire 7. Mechas - Discharge Disable Signal Beam + Telepathy 8. Dark - Moonblast Echoed Voice Shadow Sneak + Illuminate 9. Barrier - Iron Head Minimize Teleport + Infiltrator Horde Rooms: Banned types changed to Trap types, they deal damage to the user (equal to 10 x the floor) instead of nerfing the mon. Also some tweaks to ban frequencies.