[HGSS] 4th gen will always be the best gen

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Harry, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. Harry

    Harry Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've played since gen 3, and leaderboarded first on ever gen, on smogon for third and 4th, on PO for 4 and 5
    All I can say is that Gen 3 was too standardized. Skarmbliss errywhurr and boah tar, and gen 5 is too offensive with no balance. Don't get me wrong, they're all fun. I love all gens I play competitively. But gen 4 was way more intricate and developed and inventive than the others ever will. Thoughts?
     
  2. Galblade

    Galblade FAT PRINCESS

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,417
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gen 4 OU was the most centralised, boring tier I have ever played. Gen 4 UU though, was pretty good, albeit a bit centralised too. Gen 5 has only just begun, so no-one knows how this gen or any future gen will end up playing like. Creating a thread like this is probably a bit premature, gen 5 hasn't even been released to english speaking countries yet, and the third version (there always is one) could provide some major changes like Platinum did last gen.
     
  3. DDwhiscash

    DDwhiscash Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    1
    Man ...... Galblade just totally said everything I was about to say
     
  4. Archerknight

    Archerknight Legends

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    Archerknight
    Gen4 was ok; OU, UU sucked for me. Uber was o.k, although the pros were just pros. NU was good, and so was LC.
    UU was full of stall for me, and OU was too complex for me.
     
  5. coolking49

    coolking49 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ive only played gens 3/4/5, and only 4 really competitively, but my problem with gen 3 is that type coverage sucks on way too many pokemon, unless its a mixed attacker. Gen 5 just has too much stuff, though I suppose I'll get used to it eventually. My fav is gen 4 as well, though that could change as I play gen 5 more. If nothing else it may be later on just for the nostalgia value
     
  6. Nexus

    Nexus Legend Killer

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes Received:
    2
    GEn 4 is the best really! by a long shot!
     
  7. DDwhiscash

    DDwhiscash Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    1
    Its just way too early for a thread like this. Playing competitive Gen 5 when things are unstable is kinda pointless
     
  8. Cake

    Cake Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hive mind. Gen 3 was best. A lot of UU was viable in OU if you knew how to play it right. It felt like the least centralized metagame.

    Gen 2 was definitely the worst gen. A never ending loop of walls walling walls.

    That "coverage sucking" you say is something I personally like about gen 3. Typing actually matters offensively. I like the physical/special split but it's a double edged sword for me.
     
  9. Jcpdragonx

    Jcpdragonx the business business

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gen 4 will always be the best generation. In Gen 4 OU, there is nothing broken. Nothing completely dominates it (e.g weather, offence, stall, etc) and its just plain fun. Gen 5 is dumb, too many broken trollolols. Inconstant, sand storm, hyper offence and more I can't think off atm. I did not play much Gen 3, but its way to defensive and most teams have skarmblis or magnetrio (w/e its called).
     
  10. Harry

    Harry Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree, the special physical split was one of the coolest things GF ever did
     
  11. Wulfert

    Wulfert It is me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gen 4 > Gen 5
    I mean really.
    1. (The most important one) Lots of Pokémon became threats for Scizor. Urugamosu, Shandera, scarf Genosect
    On a more serious note... Gen 4 hyper offence was just clean, but hell. Ditto came in the picture and just ruins every HO team. Then we have that Mole which there aren't that many threats for..... er, something else but I can't think of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  12. coolguy31337

    coolguy31337 Amor Fati

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    0
    Having used HO a bunch this gen, I'd contend that although Ditto does change HO, it still does not ruin HO. First, dual screens should be up on a standard HO team anyway, which means you should be able to kill Ditto. Secondly, Ditto loses the boost your pokes get from LO, so using bulky sweepers will work. Third, Ditto can only reliably revenge when it's scarfed, which just means you get another easy opportunity to set up.
     
  13. MistBorn

    MistBorn Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm interesting comments Harry...
    I played gen4 a great deal, and saw the same pokemon, over, and over and over....
    It got kinda boring and repetitive, however I agree with you that it was intricate and balanced, which allowed real skill to shine through.

    This gen, hyper offence takes a certain aspect of skill away from most games IMO, as even top ranked players can easily set up a butterfly dance/ shell smash/bulk up/calm mind much easier then in gen4, and generally, the mons come with more attacking prowess.

    However I love the diversity of gen5, the vast array of Pokemon does cause a less balanced meta game,
    yet it also allows unpredictability and a greater level of innovation in the creation of teams. This leads to unexpected battles where you have to adjust and adapt, rather then follow a predictable formula, as happened in gen4.

    Or it could be that we are still getting used to gen5 and eventually, it will become as standardized as gen4.

    I for one, hope not, as Gen5 has brought with it an excitement to competitive Pokemon to all players, which the other gens may have lacked.
     
  14. Meteor64

    Meteor64 TM1337 Falcon Punch

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    4th gen sucked balls. Stealth Rock COMPLETELY ruins the competitive viability of some pokemon, and HO is no fun at all.

    Cake, you got it spot on. The difference between 4th gen OU and 3rd gen OU is that in 4th gen, OU consists of pokemon who can live with SR. A lot of otherwise decent niche pokemon are lost in the depths of NU due to SR (Regice and Charizard, for example). In 3rd Gen OU, you could quite safely use a LOT of UU pokes in OU, because they're actually quite capable pokemon who are on the whole outshone by others, yet they can fill in holes on a team rather effectively. Solrock is a good example of that.

    I think the type coverage within RSE is completely adequate. So what if Gyarados can't use STAB Water attacks? Hes still a really effective sweeper when used right. You can't just barge through a team with STAB attacks, n'd thats what I enjoy about it.
    Also, the fact you can have physical Hidden Power in Gen 3 kinda adds to coverage, doncha think? Believe it or not, Ninjask is one of the most effective Choice Banders I've ever used, simply down to Hidden Power Fighting.

    I wont pass judgement on Gen 5 as of yet, but I will say one thing- with this many pokemon in the game now, bans are inevitable. The more pokes you have, the less balanced the meta gets. Think about it, the more awesome pokemon they introduce each generation, theres gonna be more and more of these clogging up OU. And once a few of these stand out, then they're off to Ubers.

    Power Creep, guys. I saw it coming as soon as gen 4 showed its face, and I was right.
     
  15. Wulfert

    Wulfert It is me

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Likes Received:
    3
    damn, what a profesional
     
  16. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer SWAG

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's quite possible to use UU pokemon in OU in Gen 4, and the same is true for Gen 5. Stealth Rock does not render a pokemon useless if it's truly good; it's just that it makes it slightly more difficult to use the pokemon. Salamence was Uber in Gen 4, and it was weak to Stealth Rock. Regice and Charizard are bad, which is why they're NU, due to horrible typing and movepool, not because they're weak to SR. It's quite possible to run through a team with just STAB attacks in ADV just as it is in Gen 4; Heracross is a perfect example of that, attaining almost perfect coverage with its powerful dual STAB; it was even banned in Japan during Gen 3! However "right" you may think you are, power creep happens in every generation, and is not likely to go away anytime soon. The pokemon banned aren't just pokemon that "stand out," they're pokemon that are genuinely too powerful for the tier.

    SR does not have that much of an effect upon the competitive viability of various UU/NU pokemon, but helped to contribute the idea of power creep, allowing several sweepers to get OHKOs they would not get otherwise, like SD Lucario's CC vs. Skarmory. 3rd Gen (when I played it) was very stall-heavy, only balanced out by powerful wallbreakers like Heracross and Tyraniboah, and as such was not very fun to play, or at least not as fun as 4th Gen was. 5th Gen is still too early, with all of the pokemon still getting banned, to pass judgement upon.
     
  17. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Right, y'know, because HO totally existed before Gen IV.
    >Something new in a metagame makes it suck because stuff suddenly isn't as good as it was the previous generation.
    Gen II is sucks because pokes like Blissey and Skarmory completely ruined the viability of some Pokemon.

    Many teams in Gen 4 OU are easily swept by Rock Polish Aggron and Rhyperior. Uxie and Venusaur get just as much usage as any UUs in Gen III do. Slowbro possesses a perfect niche in OU, countering one of the most annoying attackers and walling a good amount of common threats. It does much better than Solrock does, though I'll admit Solrock has good use in OU.

    I like ADV more too, partly for the reasons you've mentioned. DP is almost as good. I never run Hyper Offence and yet I've peaked 37th on the ladder, btw using two of the least popular OU pokes there are. OU DP is not a small tier, and both BLs and UUs are used in it.
    They'll make space. For example, LittleUsed can fill a gap in-between UnderUsed and NeverUsed, and I wouldn't be surprised if they put a tier in-between OU and Ubers. No shit, stuffs gonna get banned. That's why we're testing.


    Completely unrelated:
    ADV>DP>BW. I'd put GSC in between DP and DW... but I've never played it. Sounds fun though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  18. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer SWAG

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol what the hell
     
  19. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Note that Rock Slide is not one of Heracross's STAB.

    Bug/Flying/Ghost/Poison are fairly common in OU too, especially Flying, not really Bug. Heracross's OP source isn't coverage, it's 225 and 180 BP moves paired with 383 Attack, or 574 with Guts. Rock Slide and HP [Ghost] are what give Heracross coverage, but they don't do enough to Heracross's checks without Guts activated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2011
  20. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer SWAG

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...I never said Rock Slide was STAB on Cross. The only types in OU that resist its dual STAB are Flying and Ghost; that's extremely good coverage, only missing out on maybe 6 pokemon in OU. And, as you said, HP Ghost and Rock Slide deal with the ones that resist both; after a Guts boost, basically everything it hits neutral is OHKOed or easily 2HKOed with its STAB moves alone.
     
  21. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Last I checked Gengar and Weezing are OU. And other Heracross resist Bug/Fighting, along with the moderately used Gyarados and Crobat (Gen 4 nubs use these :P). But you're right, 10 pokes resisting is pretty good for ADV. Look what Salamence got; Heracross is lucky to get two STABs that are physical, really. Poor Absol.
     
  22. Abry

    Abry Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gen 3 is the best if you l2p without using always same shit. Italy played RSE till last year (on NBS), and, let me say for example, at the moment Exeggutor is more used than Blissey; just this. Skarmbliss is a setup field for lots of powerupper that let you smash other's team; just use it, don't start with "RSE=SkarmBliss+Dusclops+Swampert+Tyranitar+Heracross" and you'll have fun playing this gen.
     
  23. evolutia

    evolutia Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    I personally find Generation 3 (RSE) to be the most enjoyable generation. I found that I could pretty much use whatever pokemon I want because I can supplement that pokemon's weakness with my predictions.

    I hate Generation 4 because it introduced Stealth Rock. A pokemon should never lose 49% of it's HP just for switching in, it's just absurd. The offensive power-creep was also unsettling, you could simply use moves and power though resistances. UU was pleasant though, well it would be if it wasn't for constantly testing. The OU players would have never tolerated 1 or 2 ubers getting dropped down every month.

    Gen 5 is still very young. I'll withhold on that for now.
     
  24. Austin Tandy

    Austin Tandy New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah the 4th generation was the best.
     
  25. EonFriend

    EonFriend Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stealth rock was the ONLY flaw in gen 4. It was the one fine detail that prevented gen 4 from being an almost perfect competitive generation. I have cribbed about Stealth rock a lot by now, so much so that I have started to live with its presence in gen 4 (like I have a choice!). For one, the physical-special split just rocked! It started to make things look a lot more sensible. The new evolutions introduction was also nice. Gen 4 OU became pretty slow paced after Salamence was banned, but before that, it used to be a total brawl! Even now, although stall has become a little more common, there is still room for offense and balance. Gen 4 UU wasn't as centralized (Heatran had more of an effect on OU than Venusaur did on UU). With bulky attacking dominating that tier, along with a plethora of options, especially when Heracross decided to pay a visit, UU was nice. No comments about NU and LC since I haven't gone there. Ubers.........not my thing......

    When you compare Gen 4 to gen 5, it looks like a completely different game altogether. Gen 5 is tending towards Bulky offense, but with a much forceful stress on "Only the strong will make it". Gen 5 is a lot more reckless and rough. Gen 4 was much calmer and smooth. Gen 5 is good, but Gen 4 rocked!
     
  26. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    I agree with you for the most part, but Skarmbliss really isn't much set-up fodder... Blissey can cripple sweepers and Skarmory can phaze them. Maybe if there were pokes that could OHKO Blissey or Skarmory after a stat-boost on the switch this would be true, but it's not. CM Jirachi and Celebi are the only Special Offenders I can think of that set up on Blissey and survive. Skarmory, on the other hand, is almost never set up on by anyone because it can phaze everything. The only threat to it is Scare Fire, which Physical Sweepers will use if they have access to it (Salamence, Blaziken). Therefore, Skarmbliss is not a cheap noobish tactic to victory, as there are gaps and weaknesses that need to be covered up. For example, CM+Roar Raikou can get rid of Celebi and Jirachi, and Bulky Waters (<3) defeat Dragon Dancers.

    Having said that, I'll explain why ADV is my favourite. It's just neat, yet complex, and each match has both long term goals and short term goals, and accomplishing them can accomplish a complete sweep. DP is cursed with priority and Stealth Rock (yes, I agree that Stealth Rock is annoying, mainly because it means you can only switch in your sweeper so many times). In ADV, however, if you bring the opponent's Swampert down to 25%, a DD Mence carrying Scare Fire sweeps Skarmbliss and Celebi and Raikou that might be on a team. However, if they also have a Dusclops, you have to bring that down too. The first to eliminate all of their counters for their sweepers wins, which is much more interesting that the disorderly brawl that the more recent generations are. Scizor's Bullet Punch hurts the game too much, and if one thing could be taken out of DP I'd wish it be the spam of priority moves.
     
  27. BlackNite

    BlackNite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gen 4 is definitely the best. The Pokemons weren't that creative as older ones but I liked it better than 5th Gen. I'm probaly the only person here who thinks Dream World is bad but Dream World just kinda sucked. The abilities are making some Pokemon too well Popular. There's lots of people here who thinks that Dream World is cool but it just doesn't work for me.

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?4439-Dream-World-Nightmare
     
  28. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    3
    @BlackNite
    Much like Heatran was too popular? Scizor was too popular? SR was too popular? :P

    There's always going to be something super-popular no matter the gen. Pokemon goes through fads too. XD
     
  29. Skillie

    Skillie New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gen 4 was very good but probably not the best.
     
  30. SalvaPot

    SalvaPot Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    I started playing like this in Gen4, so i cant tell if gen5 would be better or not, with more options for the metagame i think gen 5 could be awesome
     
  31. OneKer

    OneKer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    the Gen4 was becoming very monotonous, but it was fun playing it, especially UU and LC. I really liked

    but I hope that the Gen5 will be better
     
  32. yiran

    yiran Become a Magical Girl!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    0
    Generation 5 is way too centralized. If it's not a weather team it's almost destined to fail (except for very cleverly built teams). Oh, and not to mention Shandera.
    I'm quite liking LU right now.
     
  33. JackTim

    JackTim Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gen4 was way too monotonous like OneKer says. The cores were the same in every team and it that really made me sick after a while, so I quit playing. The good thing about gen5 is that you have to be really creative sometimes, especially when you're playing against weather-teams. I think I like gen5 better so far.
     
  34. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    B. Rizzo
    4th Gen the best? No... 3rd gen was the best for me, but honestly i'm liking 5th gen a lot more. It plays well, even when Shandera was on everyone's teams, and weather teams were more commonplace I still had no trouble. The only I have trouble with is team building, which was always been a problem for me; but as far as i'm concerned 5th gen is quickly becoming number one for me. 3rd Gen was a thinking man's game, 4th Gen made people throw prediction clear out the fucking window, and now 5th gen is making strategic team building more commonplace again.
     
  35. ASH_CHAMPION

    ASH_CHAMPION A very useless person~

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    553
    PO Trainer Name:
    Meh
    ^ I dont agree. Building stragetic teams, Well everyone i know is always focusing on building either an Anti Weather or A weather team. Gen 4 was the best, no over centralisation
     
  36. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    3
    @Meh
    Wasn't Heatran at 30-something percent usage or so? :P

    In Gen 5, I don't believe anything ever reached 25%, let alone 30+.
     
  37. Christos

    Christos Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    39
    4th Generation is my favourite.Many of you say that there was overcentralisation and there was (to be honest) around Heatran but only heatran.But the metagame was very balanced and everything had its pros and cons.In 5th Generation doesn't happen.Every competitive player who doesn't play weather must have a pokemon or two to stop weather and this makes teambuilding much more difficult as you have to include pokemon like TTar and Conkeldurr to stop weather.
     
  38. mael

    mael np: diary

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    216
    serioulsy guys, i think that DPP has by far the best metagame.
    Reasons:
    Nothing is really broken, you dont have too use one Pokemon to counter a broken one so the teams dont have always the same Pokemon. Everything has at least 5 checks or counters. One thing i like too is that every playing style can have succes. In Gen 5 for example you will not find a HeavyOffense team in the top 20 of ladder. In gen 3 there is no HeavyOffense and All-Out-Offence has more to do with luck than with skill so you can play only stall or semistall. The next thing is that its not Overcentralizied. Heatran has a high usage, but its only heatran and in gen 5 there are Pokemon with nearly as much usage as heatran has. And BW has about 150 Pokemon more. Also dont say that you cant use lower Tier'd Pokemon in OU, I know a guy using whiscash Succesfully in OU and winning tours with it. One thing that makes DPP the best generation is that it has a balance between Speed and Bulk. In ADV (RSE) it is not important to have a revengekiller or fast Pokemon in your team because there are enough bulky pokemon to kill them and enough things that wall them. In BW everything is about speed. If you are not fast enough you will get killed by a sweeper before you can say "cookie". Gen 4 has the perfect balance between speed and bulk, thats what makes it so lovely for me. The next thing i would like to mention is that in Gen 3 the lower Tiers are really hard to play. There is no balance because there are not more than 15 really usefull Pokemon and most of them need really skill to play. Ofc you can play something like Warturtle in NU if you are pro enough to use it, but that doesnt matter. Its hard for newcomer to be creative. In Gen 5 the lower tiers are really funny to play, because the metagame is pretty similar to the OU metagame of DPP. Its true that DPP UU is more than only overcentralizied. Its everything about Milotic/Venusaur/Arcanine/Mismagius. They are overused , but the difference between DPP UU and Adv UU is that you can use other Pokemon succesfully. You dont have to be a pro to win with Exeggutor in UU (It was NU, but its still not used in this tier). The reason for overusing Milo and bros is that the player are too lazy to try to find an anti-metagame Pokemon. I dont play much ubers so i wont say anything about it. The next thing i would like to talk about is Teambuilding. Seriously what do you have to be aware of when you make a Adv Team? Stall, Salamence, Heracross and Tyranitar. And in BW? Weather, Genesect, Breloom, Blaziken, Dragonite and thats it. In DPP every Pokemon can be a threat and you have to think about much more Playingstyles. You need a Stallbreaker, a HeavyOffense Counter, a Sweeper to beat BulkyOffense and now you have to cover all these offensive threats like Infernape, Machamp, Rotom, Dragonite, Gyarados etc etc. So it takes much more skill to make a good DPP Team. Support is a very Important thing in DPP. This broken BW sweepers often have only one sweeper and you can get a sweep easily when this one is removed.

    In my Opinion:
    DPP > Adv > BW > GSC

    but everybody has his own opinion
     
  39. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    3
    You can use lower tiered Pokemon in BW OU too. :P
    Ninjask, Xatu, Sableye, Murkrow, etc. Heck, Hail as a whole.
    And oddly enough Deoxys and Mew, but whatever. XD

    In BW we also have Reuniclus, Ferrothorn, Chans/Blissey, etc. who are ridiculously slow. The only time you need Speed is when your attacking stats are high and your defensive stats are low, which also holds true in DPP. No Heavy Offense counter? Swept by Latios. No Sweeper? Beaten by SubRoost Starraptor--in the OU tier, by the way.
    I would argue that more skill is needed in BW because of the incredible amount of threats. :P

    I think you're seriously underestimating BW threats. :P
    Do remember the former Ubers are almost all in here, bar Garchomp. I wouldn't say that every Pokemon being a threat is any different for BW than for DP. I've run teams without effective stallbreakers and was subsequently raped by stall.
     
  40. mael

    mael np: diary

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    216
    Ferro and blissey and this stuff are staller. Reuniclus is played as CM "sweeper" but this set is more stalling than sweeping. I didnt want to say that HO has no counters, i just wanted to mention that HO is too easy countered and you will not see it used succesfully. And ofc you are raped by stall if you dont have a stallbreaker but normally a mixedsweeper is enough in BW, because the Pokemons are too powerfull. Which top 50 team has one of the low Tier'd Pokemons you mentioned? It doesnt need more skill because most of this threats are handled by the common sandstorm combination or by Ferro/Jellicent. I threw my team together in 5 minutes and reached nearly 1400 points, so where the hell is the skill? Also if you are beaten by SubRoost Staraptor your Team definitly has not even one good wall, or your opponent was smart enough to take it out, which means you let it die too early. The fact about the speed is that there are too much High Attack/Low deffense sweeper and the attack stat is most time tremendous. I still think that gen4 needs more skill while it is much funnier.