Common Combinations in Hackmons

Discussion in 'Gen 6 Discussion' started by Nightfall Alicorn, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    @Baron Corm, I can't see anyone having mentioned this but u have a mega latios set holding leftovers. Try soul dew for the mega's great stats + a free calm mind like boost. Also imposters don't get this boost which is good and means against a Blissey (if not eviolite Chansey) you can often win 1v1 although you probably need some instant recovery to compensate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015
  2. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    A set I've used with good success - also beats Impostor Chansey.

    Ho-Oh @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    Belly Drum
    Acrobatics
    Sacred Fire
    Earthquake

    Belly Drum maximises Attack and triggers Unburden. Acrobatics serves as the main STAB, and OHKOes just about everything not resisting it. Sacred Fire is the alternate STAB and hits Steel types hard - that high burn rate can also let me beat Sturdy Shendinja. Earthquake hits the Rock types that resist Ho-Oh's STABs.

    Rayquaza and Yveltal can both run very similar sets, and each has their own advantages.
     
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  3. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Here it is:


    [​IMG]
    credit to user litra


    S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the BH metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

    S+ Rank
    [​IMG] Chansey (Imposter, Fur Coat)

    S Rank
    [​IMG] Groudon-Primal (Tinted Lens, Contrary, Desolate Land, Mold Breaker)
    [​IMG]Kyogre-Primal (Poison Heal, Mold Breaker, No Guard)
    [​IMG] Rayquaza-Mega (Aerilate, Delta Stream, Gale Wings)

    A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

    A+ Rank
    [​IMG] Giratina (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Prankster, Fur Coat, Regenerator)
    [​IMG] Mewtwo-Mega-Y (Protean, Contrary, Mold Breaker, No Guard)

    A Rank
    [​IMG] Blissey (Imposter, Fur Coat)
    [​IMG] Mewtwo-Mega-X (Protean, Refrigerate, Pixilate, Contrary, Mold Breaker)

    A- Rank
    [​IMG] Aegislash (Prankster, Magic Bounce)
    [​IMG] Diancie-Mega (Pixilate)
    [​IMG] Gengar-Mega (Mold Breaker, Prankster)
    [​IMG] Shedinja (Sturdy)

    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

    B+ Rank
    [​IMG] Arceus-* (Poison Heal, Multitype, Magic Bounce, Simple)
    [​IMG] Regirock (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Fur Coat)
    [​IMG] Registeel (Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Fur Coat)
    [​IMG] Slowbro-Mega (Fur Coat, Regenerator, Unaware, Poison Heal, Simple)

    B Rank
    [​IMG] Aggron-Mega (Fur Coat, Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Filter)
    [​IMG] Audino-Mega (Poison Heal, Fur Coat, Regenerator, Magic Bounce)
    [​IMG] Dialga (Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker, Magic Bounce)
    [​IMG] Gyarados-Mega (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)
    [​IMG] Kyurem-Black (Refrigerate)
    [​IMG] Latias-Mega (Fur Coat, Contrary, Adaptability)
    [​IMG] Latios-Mega (Fur Coat, Contrary, Adaptability)
    [​IMG] Xerneas (Pixilate, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce)
    [​IMG] Yveltal (Aerilate, Poison Heal, Delta Stream, Gale Wings)

    B- Rank
    [​IMG] Cresselia (Poison Heal, Magic Bounce)
    [​IMG] Kyurem-White (Tinted Lens, Refrigerate, No Guard)
    [​IMG] Tyranitar-Mega (Sand Stream, Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)

    C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

    C+ Rank
    [​IMG] Aerodactyl-Mega (Mold Breaker, Poison Heal, Gale Wings, Magic Guard)
    [​IMG] Darmanitan-Zen (Contrary, Tinted Lens, No Guard, Simple)
    [​IMG] Deoxys-Speed (Mold Breaker, No Guard, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard)
    [​IMG] Lugia (Poison Heal, Regenerator, Magic Bounce, Fur Coat, Filter)
    [​IMG] Hoopa-Unbound (Contrary, Simple, Tinted Lens, No Guard, Adaptability)
    [​IMG] Regigigas (Poison Heal, Simple, Scrappy, Regenerator)
    [​IMG] Slaking (Poison Heal, Scrappy, Simple)

    C Rank
    [​IMG] Ho-oh (Magic Guard, Regenerator, Poison Heal, Gale Wings)
    [​IMG] Palkia (Primordial Sea, Tinted Lens)
    [​IMG] Zekrom (Tough Claws, Mold Breaker, Poison Heal)

    C- Rank
    [​IMG] Garchomp-Mega (Poison Heal, Mold Breaker)
    [​IMG] Kangaskhan-Mega (Parental Bond, Poison Heal)
    [​IMG] Reshiram (Contrary, Desolate Land, Poison Heal, Tinted Lens, No Guard)
    [​IMG] Venusaur-Mega (Magic Bounce, Regenerator, Filter)
    [​IMG] Scizor-Mega (Primordial Sea, Magic Bounce, Prankster)

    D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

    D Rank
    [​IMG] Alakazam-Mega (No Guard, Tinted Lens, Magic Guard)
    [​IMG] Altaria-Mega (Pixilate, Poison Heal)
    [​IMG] Banette-Mega (Prankster, Poison Heal)
    [​IMG] Charizard-Mega-Y (Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Regenerator, Gale Wings)
    [​IMG] Deoxys-Attack (Protean, Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker, No Guard, Contrary)
    [​IMG] Gourgeist-Super (Primordial Sea, Prankster, Filter, Poison Heal)
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn (Primordial Sea, Regenerator, Prankster)
    [​IMG] Heatran (Levitate, Regenerator, Fur Coat)
    [​IMG] Houndoom-Mega (Desolate Land, Tinted Lens, No Guard)
    [​IMG] Lucario-Mega (Adaptability, No Guard)
    [​IMG] Mawile-Mega (Huge Power, Regenerator)
    [​IMG] Sceptile-Mega (Contrary, Tinted Lens)
    [​IMG] Shuckle (Poison Heal, Prankster, Magic Bounce, Regenerator)
    [​IMG] Skarmory (Primordial Sea, Magic Bounce, Prankster, Regenerator)​
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
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  4. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Good idea with the viability ranking - I'd also suggest leaving some common abilities next to the Pokémon.
     
  5. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    I've added a link to that post on first page here. I really think users would benefit from that list. @Funbot28
     
  6. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    I would add No Guard to every single speedy special attacker you have listed (except Mega Diancie, that thing needs its Pixilate). Spamming low accuracy moves like Steam Eruption, Zap Cannon, Blue Flare, Hurricane, and Blizzard is fun as hell. I've found Primal Ogre in particular to be really good at it.

    I'd also move MegaLatias up a whole 2 or 3 ranks, at least putting it above its brother. Soul Dew+Fur Coat makes it hit like a truck AND be nearly impossible to kill at the same time.

    Other possible ones:

    MegaGross: Imagine Mega Aggron, but with better offenses, speed, and mixed bulk.

    MegaMence: Mostly the same Pokemon as MegaRay, but it's increased speed and bulk has proven useful on occasions and usually made up for the lack of firepower. I've also found that having both of them can be devastating if not prepared for right.

    Thundurus-I/T: I mentioned last page that it is one of the best Rain abusers in the tier. STAB perfectly accurate Thunder+Hurricane works amazing with Drizzle/Primordial Sea, some random Water move, and some filler setup/coverage/utility move. I like Therian Forme because I find that the power is sorely needed over the speed, but if speed is what you want, Incarnate works too I guess.
     
  7. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Contrary Reshiram needs to be added, that thing is incredible. STAB V-create which boosts your Speed and Defences, STAB Draco Meteor and Overheat basically become 130 power STAB Nasty Plots, it never disappoints me. Just get rid of the completely broken and totally overcentralising Impostor Chansey and you're golden.

    Reshiram @ Flame Plate
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    V-create
    Overheat
    Draco Meteor
    Roost
     
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  8. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Well, for a way past Imposter Chansey, why not just run Draco Plate and Dragon Judgment? Chansey wouldn't be able to use it against you, you'd 4x resist the Fire moves, and you still have Overheat for the Nasty Plot boost. Fairy sure that tricks works in hackmons... right?
     
  9. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    Spooky/whatever plate imposter blissey exists anyway
     
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    That's a good idea Spoovo, thanks.

    Wouldn't Blissey rather run Leftovers? The Plates would be incredibly situational for it.

    Also, another set which I've found works well:

    Shaymin-S @ Sky Plate
    Trait: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    Tail Glow
    Seed Flare
    Judgment
    Giga Drain

    With Tinted Lens, you no longer need to worry about Seed Flare's crap coverage. Tail Glow takes your Special Attack up to 847. Seed Flare is the main STAB, and thanks to Tinted Lens 2HKOes 252/252 Calm Giratina at +3. Judgment and Sky Plate let you beat Impostor Chansey, although if you're not worried about that you can use a Life Orb with Oblivion Wing. Giga Drain can keep your health up.
     
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  11. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    Crap, Tinted Lens, another ability that works on every Pokemon in the freaking game...

    I love Hackmons
     
  12. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    For the viability rankings I would add magic guard to the common abilities for mega diancie and mega aerodactyl since a stab LO head smash with no recoil is a dangerous thing not forgetting the poison, leech seed, curse, hazards, partial trapping moves etc that don't cause you a slow painful death. Also in what world is darmanitan zen more viable than mega venu (which BTW I think should have prankster)? Overall a good list though and I would suggest it's own thread like many other viability rankings. Edit: OMG gourgeist
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
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  13. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    No way is Reshiram C-. Contrary STAB V-create, Overheat, Draco Plate Judgment to beat Impostor Chansey, late game it's amazing. B+/A- IMO.
     
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  14. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    I do not agree Reshiram should be B+/A-, i think it should be C+ the max
     
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  15. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

    That is Reshiram. Its main flaws are its hazard weakness and average speed, but it's got great attacking stats, superb offensive typing and is one of the best Contrary abusers in the tier. B- at worst.
     
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  16. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    I have seen contrary Mega Char X used in a similar way with higher att and speed to make use of v create so I think that should earn mega char x at least a D ranking. Also can someone please explain darmanitan zen's "notable niche"?
    I would also add that I think mega Aero should be moved up into at least low B since I believe its advantages of excellent speed and great use of magic guard with 2 stab recoil moves out weigh the flaw of comparatively low bulk and attack stat for this tier. And yes I did just call 135 base attack low.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  17. BillyGotMad

    BillyGotMad New Member

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    Under the simple ability, why not minimize instead of double team??
     
  18. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    Minimise has a downside of taking double damage from certain moves. Although it does +2 evasion. Double Team +1 but doesn't have the negative effect. Kinda a toss up for more evasion but for risk or lessor for more safety.
     
  19. TraceofLife

    TraceofLife Lucky Strike

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    Evasion is banned though?????
     
  20. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    From Balanced Hackmons only.

    Personally I think it would be hilarious if stuff like Body Slam Mega Ray became popular because of minimize.
     
  21. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    I run an unaware in every team which deals with evasion boosters effectively as well as most other stat boosters (not speed though). Something like unaware soul dew mega latios for its insane special bulk can deal with most things like quiver dance primal kyogre and moody pokemon.
     
  22. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    I didn't know Unaware ability effected evasion. I imagine Unaware with Chansey holding Eviolite would be a powerful Special Defence tank. Hadn't tested it yet though.
     
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  23. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Ayup. Unaware ignores everything except Speed. Evasion is just forgotten because it's never used in standard play.
     
  24. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    I think Reshiram is a viable mon by itself, but due to the presence of Soul Dew Contrary Mega Lati@s that just outclass it, it cannot mold itself in the current metagame.
     
  25. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Lati@s doesn't outclass it - Lati@s doesn't get STAB V-create.
     
  26. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Yes, but Lati@s have better bulk, and more attacking presence while also being faster and not being weak to SR
     
  27. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    A very small problem with mega latios/as compared to reshiram is that they are pretty much guaranteed to be holding soul dew which allows a prankster spore to be sure about a lack of goggles and maybe in some other small situations it may matter. After all any predictability can be used against you.
     
  28. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Or just not use soul dew? Mega latias especially has more than enough bulk naturally to use V-Create on a contrary set and then just start throwing around Draco Meteors with any item it wants. Much more than reshiram at least, and with only 10 less special attack to boot. Only real problem is that it's weak to both Refrigerate and Pixilate where Reshiram isn't.

    I didn't even know soul dew worked on the mega forms, if they didn't need their stones like in hackmons.
     
  29. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    I just felt like reshiram needed some love, that's all. (ILY reshiram <3)
     
  30. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    Protean mega alakazam: moves like King Shield, Moon Blast, Earthpower and some other coverage or utility move. The extremely high speed means even when modest it out speeds things such as mega ray, mega mew two x, mega gengar etc and with 175 base SpAtt it certainly hits hard with king shield to help with its physical frailness and to check most -ates.
     
  31. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    With respects to the initial ability list in this thread I think it is incorrect to say that no guard does not apply to balanced hackmons. There are many different mons that can run no guard + dynamic punch, zap cannon, hurricane, focus blast (no longer focus miss) or inferno. I have seen at least m mew2 x/y and thunderus with this ability used to good enough effect that I think it deserves a mention.
     
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  32. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    The thread's title is "Common Combinations in Hackmons" not "Common Combinations in Balanced Hackmons". But I've left note if the ability is not availble "w/ No Guard Ability (n/a in Balanced Hackmons)" for example.
     
  33. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Active Member

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    Ok, want to brig up some discussion points:

    [​IMG] A+ to S
    • Amazing power with Protean, with right moves, it can 2hko pratically the whole tier
    • Checks and counters to it are little to none, besides things like FC Chansey and bulky PH P-Ogre
    • Weak to common threats like Mega-Rayquaza and -ate spam in general
    [​IMG] A to A+
    • Similar reasons to the other Mewtwo form, but has more variety in it's sets
    • However, it arguably has more checks and counters, especially FC Chansey
    [​IMG] A to B+/B
    • Gets completely outclassed by Chansey in every way, only use is to use it as a pseudo Chansey so you can have more than two Imposters
    • Also has the niche to hold an item besides Eviolite, but still Chansey can bluff another item to surprise opponents
    [​IMG] A- to B
    • Really big threat in the meta, easily being able to sweep if used correctly
    • However, is extremely prepared for in the meta, every team has a way to deal with it
     
  34. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    If I recall Parental Bond (n/a in BH) with Sacred Fire can double burn it down if lucky. But of course, Stealth Rock and Leech Seed should eliminate Shedinja. I think players get scared because of Endeavour but better bringing it down ASAP than letting it take advantage of sweeping the opponent.
     
  35. willdbeast

    willdbeast All round nice guy

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    Just use a sandstorm team like I do and dealing with shedinja is ezpz (although I run a shedinja myself on this team with safety goggles) and also magic guard shedinja with sash/recycle has some potential to evade your carefully planned shedinja traps but only really works when paired with sturdy shedinja of the same move set for bluffing power.
     
  36. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Hello again,

    I ve started playing BH a few weeks ago.

    There is alot of theorymoning before starting to build a team, for me this was/is the main appeal of BH.
    Everything is broken and yet everything is checked.

    The tier is list fairly accurate, although too many pokes are listed as viable. I think only ~30 pokes are capable of winning.
    Main Reasons are;
    Pretty much every singletype poke is outclassed by Arceus.
    STAB V-Create from P-Groudon is stronger than +4 Att Arceus Extreme Speed
    Latias-Mega with Soul Dew can 2HKO Diagla with Spacial Rend, Diagla cant 2HKO back without Adamant Orb.


    I made my own tier list, i can post it if anyone wants to know. Format, 6 pokes per letter, 2 in each category (S+->D-)
    The main differences to Funbot28 are;

    I consider Mewtwo X stronger than Y. X is the strongest and fastest physical sweeper.
    Y faces competion from Primal Kyogre and Lati@s-Mega, its easier to revengekill and harder to make Imposterproof.

    Blissey A- is ok, Imposter with Lefties is better vs burns, Leech Seed or alongside boosters.
    Imposter Blissey beats most stuff 1on1, depending on item.

    Shedinja is S- for me. The simple fact that other S members need specific moves to beat it shows how big its influence really is.
    On top of that Shedinja can escape form any deadly situation.

    Lati@s-Mega are way too low, they are so strong on the special side with Soul Dew. Latias-Mega is better than Latios-Mega due
    better stat distribution. Soul Dew boost also helps against Imposter Evolite Chansey.

    Hoopa-B can solosweep and is Imposterproof, on top of that Giratina nor Latias-Mega are able to wall it.

    Kyruem-B tends to get walled by Primal Groudon, same with Diancle-Mega, Chansey countersweeps force you to run bad coverage sets
    or Kings Shield somewhere.

    Sceptile-Mega is underrated, having both STAB on Draco Meteor and Leaf Storm with Spore Immunity.
    Its strong enough to 1HKO Latias-Mega/P-Groudon/P-Kyogre at +2.
     
  37. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

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    I dunno, every single thing on Funbot's tierlist with a single type has either extreme stats that Arceus doesn't or it has access to an overpowered ability (Mega Kanga in particular). The only exceptions are arguably Xerneas and Cresselia.
     
  38. Joyverse

    Joyverse Back for a blast!

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    Here's a dumb AF set.

    Arceus @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait- any -ate ability
    Adamant/Jolly
    252 EVs in all except SpA

    - Belly Drum
    - Extreme Speed
    - Earthquake
    - Filler
     
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  39. Nightfall Alicorn

    Nightfall Alicorn Left Pokémon Online, most likely not coming back.

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Nightmare Moon
    If you can sneak the Belly Drum in successfully, Arceus will still obtain the title of Extreme Killer. :o

    Edit: Do not bring it out against an Imposter Chansey holding Eviolite though or it can backfire major badly. Maybe for a safety Mega Steelix with defence bulk might be able to endure and Whirlwind it if the worse case should happen if using Fairy-ite. Avalugg might block from Ice-ite too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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  40. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Speaking of priority. I think the -ate restriction is unneeded. Either full ban or full usable.

    There is nothing to revengekill when everything has 252/252 in HP/Def, and if they boost their stats any Imposter can countersweep.

    At first i used Kyurem-B, but with a few defence boosts the Imposter M-Ray becomes unkillable regardless.
    Refrigate Kyurem-B cant even 1HKO Evolite Chansey M-Ray at +0 Def. (81.8 - 97.1% with Extreme Speed).
     
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