ThemeWar

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by IceKirby, Mar 29, 2015.

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  1. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10065307/Mafia/ThemeWar.js

    This theme was quite popular back when themes first started to appear (it was one of the themes that made me like themes).
    To those who don't know it, this is a Mafia vs. Mafia theme that puts baddies from the most popular themes to fight each other. I updated it with more current sides and stuff (some bias included, can't deny).

    Here's the list:
    Zelda: Ganondorf, Koume, Kotake
    FF*: Kefka, Kuja
    Elements: Arsenic, Mercury, Lead
    Kirby: King Dedede, Waddle Doo, Gordo, TAC**
    SSBB: Pokémon Trainer, Lucario, Pikachu, Jigglypuff
    Myth: Hades, Cerberus x2~3
    Naruto: Orochimaru, Kabuto
    FE: Ephidel, Nergal, Limstella, Sonia
    Body: Rabies, Flu x2
    DN: Ryuk, Rem x2
    ClanWar: Village Leader
    Weapons: Pen***

    *Kefka and Kuja are connected from the start.
    **TAC's /steal works a bit different here since no Ax Knight/Sleep Kirby. It keeps the target's role, but makes one of their abilities weaker. For most of them, it means one of their actions get recharge or cannot be used at all. Also, one role from each team is immune to it.
    ***Pen can fake-expose as Waddle Doo, Nergal, Kotake, Kuja, Kabuto, Pikachu, Rem, Lead, Cerberus, Village Leader or Flu.

    Here's what happens when TAC uses steal on someone:
    Zelda: Ganondorf (Immune), Koume (no daykill), Kotake (no distract)
    FF: Kefka (affected by distractors), Kuja (Immune)
    Elements: Arsenic (inspect with recharge), Mercury (Immune), Lead (protect with recharge)
    SSBB: Pokémon Trainer (Immune), Lucario (No day inspect), Pikachu (Affected by PL), Jigglypuff (No PL)
    Myth: Hades (Immune), Cerberus (No hax)
    Naruto: Orochimaru (Immune), Kabuto (No bomb)
    FE: Ephidel (No inspect), Nergal (Immune), Limstella (No distract), Sonia (no stalk)
    Body: Rabies (vulnerable to nightkills, distract and poison), Flu (Immune)
    DN: Ryuk, Rem (Vulnerable to PL)
    ClanWar: Village Leader (Vote as 2)

    Looking at the roles list, some of them may seems weaker, so I gave them better priority to make up for that.

    Spawn List:
    List 1 (4~5 players):
    1. Lead (lead)
    2. Mercury (mercury)
    3. Koume (koume)
    4. TAC (tac)
    5. Pen (pen)

    List 2 (6~7 players):
    1. Mercury (mercury)
    2. Lead (lead)
    3. Lucario (lucario)
    4. Pikachu (pikachu)
    5. King Dedede (dedede)
    6. Gordo (gordo)
    7. Pen (pen)

    List 3 (8~11 players):
    1. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    2. Kotake (kotake)
    3. Mercury (mercury)
    4. Lead (lead)
    5. Kefka (kefka)
    6. Kuja (kuja)
    7. Hades (hades)
    8. Cerberus (cerberus)
    9. Arsenic (arsenic)
    10. Pen (pen)
    11. Rabies (rabies)

    List 4 (12~13 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. Pen (pen)
    13. Rabies (rabies)

    List 5 (14~16 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. King Dedede (dedede)
    13. Waddle Doo (waddledoo)
    14. Pack kirby_member: 1. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%] | 2. TAC (tac) [50.00%]
    15. Pen (pen)
    16. Pack pseudo_solo: 1. Rabies (rabies) [50.00%] | 2. Village Leader (villageleader) [50.00%]

    List 6 (17~19 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. King Dedede (dedede)
    13. Waddle Doo (waddledoo)
    14. Pack kirby_member: 1. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%] | 2. TAC (tac) [50.00%]
    15. Nergal (nergal)
    16. Ephidel (ephidel)
    17. Pack fe_member: 1. Limstella (limstella) [50.00%] | 2. Sonia (sonia) [50.00%]
    18. Pen (pen)
    19. Pack pseudo_solo: 1. Rabies (rabies) [50.00%] | 2. Village Leader (villageleader) [50.00%]

    List 7 (20~23 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. King Dedede (dedede)
    13. Waddle Doo (waddledoo)
    14. Pack kirby_member: 1. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%] | 2. TAC (tac) [50.00%]
    15. Nergal (nergal)
    16. Ephidel (ephidel)
    17. Pack fe_member: 1. Limstella (limstella) [50.00%] | 2. Sonia (sonia) [50.00%]
    18. Pack poketrainer: 1. Pokémon Trainer (Squirtle) (pokemon_trainer_squirtle) [50.00%] | 2. Pokémon Trainer (Ivysaur) (pokemon_trainer_ivysaur) [50.00%]
    19. Pack ssbb_member: 1. Pikachu (pikachu) [50.00%] | 2. Lucario (lucario) [50.00%]
    20. Jigglypuff (jigglypuff)
    21. Pen (pen)
    22. Pack pseudo_solo: 1. Rabies (rabies) [50.00%] | 2. Village Leader (villageleader) [50.00%]
    23. Pack pseudo_solo: 1. Village Leader (villageleader) [50.00%] | 2. Rabies (rabies) [50.00%]

    List 8 (24~25 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. King Dedede (dedede)
    13. Waddle Doo (waddledoo)
    14. Pack kirby_member: 1. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%] | 2. TAC (tac) [50.00%]
    15. Nergal (nergal)
    16. Ephidel (ephidel)
    17. Pack fe_member: 1. Limstella (limstella) [50.00%] | 2. Sonia (sonia) [50.00%]
    18. Ryuk (ryuk)
    19. Rem (rem)
    20. Rem (rem)
    21. Pack poketrainer: 1. Pokémon Trainer (Squirtle) (pokemon_trainer_squirtle) [50.00%] | 2. Pokémon Trainer (Ivysaur) (pokemon_trainer_ivysaur) [50.00%]
    22. Pack ssbb_member: 1. Pikachu (pikachu) [50.00%] | 2. Lucario (lucario) [50.00%]
    23. Jigglypuff (jigglypuff)
    24. Pen (pen)
    25. Pack pseudo_solo: 1. Rabies (rabies) [50.00%] | 2. Village Leader (villageleader) [50.00%]

    List 9 (26~37 players):
    1. Kefka (kefka)
    2. Kuja (kuja)
    3. Hades (hades)
    4. Cerberus (cerberus)
    5. Cerberus (cerberus)
    6. Mercury (mercury)
    7. Lead (lead)
    8. Arsenic (arsenic)
    9. Ganondorf (ganondorf)
    10. Koume (koume)
    11. Kotake (kotake)
    12. King Dedede (dedede)
    13. Waddle Doo (waddledoo)
    14. Pack kirby_member: 1. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%] | 2. TAC (tac) [50.00%]
    15. Nergal (nergal)
    16. Ephidel (ephidel)
    17. Pack fe_member: 1. Limstella (limstella) [50.00%] | 2. Sonia (sonia) [50.00%]
    18. Ryuk (ryuk)
    19. Rem (rem)
    20. Rem (rem)
    21. Pack poketrainer: 1. Pokémon Trainer (Squirtle) (pokemon_trainer_squirtle) [50.00%] | 2. Pokémon Trainer (Ivysaur) (pokemon_trainer_ivysaur) [50.00%]
    22. Pack ssbb_member: 1. Pikachu (pikachu) [50.00%] | 2. Lucario (lucario) [50.00%]
    23. Jigglypuff (jigglypuff)
    24. Rabies (rabies)
    25. Flu (flu)
    26. Orochimaru (orochimaru)
    27. Kabuto (kabuto)
    28. Flu (flu)
    29. Pen (pen)
    30. Village Leader (villageleader)
    31. Rem (rem)
    32. Mercury (mercury)
    33. Flu (flu)
    34. Cerberus (cerberus)
    35. Pack fe_member: 1. Sonia (sonia) [50.00%] | 2. Limstella (limstella) [50.00%]
    36. Pack ssbb_member: 1. Lucario (lucario) [50.00%] | 2. Pikachu (pikachu) [50.00%]
    37. Pack kirby_member: 1. TAC (tac) [50.00%] | 2. Gordo (gordo) [50.00%]
    Spawn is split into several lists to make sure a team member won't spawn by itself.

    Priority:
    [1] Nameless Morph (Shield)
    [2] Limstella (Bind)
    [3] Jigglypuff (Distract)
    [4] Kotake (Distract)
    [5] Kefka (Kill)
    [6] TAC (Steal)
    [7] Lead (Protect)
    [7] Waddle Doo (Protect)
    [7] Kabuto (Protect)
    [8] Toxic Elements (Poison)
    [8] Pokémon Trainer (Ivysaur) (Poison)
    [8] Rem (Poison)
    [9] Underworld (Kill)
    [10] Flu (Kill)
    [11] Ryuk (Kill)
    [11] Ryuk (Write)
    [12] Dedede Mafia (Kill)
    [13] Pokémon Mafia (Kill)
    [14] Orochimaru's Forces (Kill)
    [15] The Dread Isle (Kill)
    [16] Gerudo (Kill)
    [17] Village Leader (Kill)
    [18] Nergal (Morph)
    [19] Arsenic (Inspect)
    [19] Ephidel (Inspect)
    [20] Sonia (Stalk)

    Probably will be called a killfest and stuff (since it is one), but it's quite a fun theme since everyone is Mafia.
    For anyone wondering, the criteria I used to choose the themes that would appear here was:
    1. Themes that existed in the original version and are still relevant to this day. (Zelda, FF, Elements, Myth, ClanWar).
    2. Popular and approved Village vs Mafia themes not focused on gimmicks (SSBB, Naruto, FE, Body, DN).
    3. Pen, because awesome.

    Yes, there are probably other themes that could get in too, but some bias is necessary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2015
  2. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

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    Cohesion-
    I feel like the theme comes together as a whole, and brings everyones favourite roles together. It has great flavour and everything lends itself towards making the theme as a whole, each role and element helps to create, what I feel is an amazing theme and a new masterpiece. Good Job! Its consistent and every theme has some of their most notable villains. I like it.
    5/5

    Creativity-
    Oh dear god, this is honestly amazing! The amount of creative genius in this theme, to mix and match everyones favourite themes together and incorporate it in a new theme that mashes it all up and spits it out at you. This, I believe, is the first of its kind that I have witnessed, its new, its brilliant and it has a level of addictiveness that I feel will make it one of everyones favourite themes. If I could give you more than 5, believe me, I would.
    5/5

    Craftsmanship (Balance, Tactics)-
    Balance wise, I was hesitant at first, but after a few games, it seems pretty balanced to me. The /wininfo data, while quite new for this month lends itself to reinforce this. Initially, I thought have kefka and kuja linked together may be a little unbalanced, but having so many killers and poisoners seems to balance that quite nicely. Tactic wise, it pretty much is a war. Each team has their strengths and weaknesses, and they have to work together in order to achieve a win. Some teams need to keep other faction members alive in order to win themselves, i.e, a team would want to keep kuja alive for a night if all they have left is 1 killer vsing a ganon. However, with the high amount of killers, there is a probable chance that an entire faction could be wiped out in N1. Is there any way to solve this? Apart from that, no other comments.

    4/5

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)-
    Roles are good, Learning curve wise is pretty simple, experienced players will pick it up relatively quickly, and new players can learn by playing themes that are incorporated within the theme and vice versa. It flows very well and has a good pace. Nothing wrong here.
    5/5

    Concept-
    Its fun and simple, its a new concept that brings a multitude of themes into one and brings them all to life at once. Its a good concept, and one that has plenty of flavour and life. I see nothing wrong with the concept at all. Just wanting to clarify that this would not fall under the "ClanWar" banner. Apart from that, everything's good.
    5/5

    Total: 24/25
     
  3. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

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    Well, technically speaking, it isn't necessarily new in a sense. There have been ThemeWars in the past, and while the concept of the theme is unique, it isn't really something foreign to veteran players. So saying it's new is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
     
  4. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    If there's one aspect I think this theme is far from deserving a full score, it would be this one. Except for the fact that all sides are picked from mafia from other themes, there's practically no cohesion among them at all. Each one is part of a completely different universe that barely relates to each other in any way.

    The original ThemeWar was made 4+ years ago, even before I made my first theme. Hardly anything new, and even if it was, I don't think that alone is enough for a full score. You know, it's not a good idea to find one single good point and use only that to justify a full score.

    Wow, the aspect I focused the most when making this theme is the only one that you give a lower score?
    No, there's no way to prevent a side from being eliminated N1, and nor there should exist one. It's part of the game, not a an exclusive issue of this theme.

    Nothing to complain here, but I'd appreciate some harsher criticism. Although I agree the game pacing is better than I anticipated and learning curve is quite easy (since people will know the roles from other themes), I wouldn't mind some nitpicks.
    Also, this is hardly similar to ClanWar. ClanWar is kind of "Village vs Village", while this is "Mafia vs Mafia". And even then, what's wrong with being ClanWar-ish? Wow I'm blind, I did not see the "not" in the ClanWar phrase. But the question remains, why not being ClanWar is a bad thing?
     
  5. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

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    Would be happy to re-review if you would like me to.
    Just asking because iirc, weren't ClanWars erased from mafia?
     
  6. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Requesting thread locked as I plan focusing on other projects. I feel like the 'Mafia' theme somehow already fills for this theme's concept, so at least for now I won't keep working on this theme. If anyone wants to keep working on this theme, PM me and I will gladly help.
     
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