[Approved] don't be boring tournament

Discussion in 'Tournament Applications' started by Duncajuwon, Oct 1, 2014.

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  1. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    No one expects Gyarados to use hyper beam
    The pidgy's like waaaat

    Introduction: Hi. My name is Duncajuwon. I usually only play ubers seriously, and play other tiers for fun. When I saw Zorodark's Ubers Forum Challenge, I got interested. I tried it, and I realized how hard it was. I thought that it would be really fun if this was used for OU, but with some additional twists. Most people are uncreative, and build teams by copying Smogon's main set, or using PO's most used set. This will force people to be more creative and try some new sets.

    Format: The set of each pokemon on every team must not be the #1 Set used on PO's stat usage. I don't know when this tourney will start, so the stats will be based on the month that had ended right before the start of this tourney. But in addition, I will be randomly selecting which tier each matchup plays, out of Ubers, OU, UU, LU, NU, and LC. If you have questions on whether your set is different enough from the #1 set, pm me I will respond. I'll be using this to check
    http://stats.pokemon-online.eu

    Rules:
    -
    Must be played in the tier I randomly select for that matchup
    - BO1, Finals will be BO3
    - First round is 2 weeks, rest is 1 week
    - Sets must not be #1 on Forums

    P.S: I'm also willing to do a different tier each week, instead of each matchup.
     
  2. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    "- Sets must not be #1 on Forums"
    Stats page not forums. Small but important :^]

    I would personally rather the tier was not randomly selected each week and was instead in some manner of sensible order, but I'd rather the first or last week not be LC as well.

    The main problem I have with this is where do you draw the line of what counts as the "most common set" or "too close to it", the most used Talonflame set is;

    Talonflame @ Choice Band
    Adamant; Gale Wings
    252/4/252
    • Tailwind
    • U-turn
    • Flare Blitz
    • Brave Bird
    Now if I wanted to run CB Talonflame, could I remove Tailwind and use a 3 moves Talon. Moreover could I edit my speed EVs to outspeed Jolly Terrakion and put more in HP or Defense. Could I do both but not either of those individually. You could say "don't use CB mon if CB is the most common set"

    But what if I wanted to use a CB Dragonite with Dragon Claw / Ice Punch / Thunderpunch / Espeed or something (read: I don't) that set is far more distinctive from the standard CB than DDnite is, but it's still a CBnite. Just a bad one. So saying "no CB sets if the top set is CB" is also dubious. Those are the only classifications I can think of that aren't completely arbitrary and they both have major flaws. You have to decide what the "defining characteristic" of each set may be in each case individually. For CB Talon it might well be the Choice Band. But for DDGyara it is Dragon Dance, while for Mega Manectric, none of its sets have such a definitive characteristic until you start seeing Magnet Rise, it's just all 4 attacks.

    Personally I think the definition is too dubious, so I'll put a reject (1/2) on the board.

    @Raducan @Xdevo @Samphire

    Sorry for the late reply n_n
     
  3. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Considering I ran that Ubers challenge, I guess I can give you some input. The ladder challenge was pretty fun and it got good results with SongSing winning with a team consisting of Specs Xerneas/Band Extremekiller and other stuff you normally wouldn't see.

    On the other hand, it completely ruled out the usage of other hipster mons (like I wanted to use Hippowdon but it only has one really viable set so I couldn't). It's the same as Weavile's Mega Manectric example and that's the biggest con about the challenge, namely completely ruling out a couple of pokémon that could be fun and "not boring" otherwise.

    If the host draws a clear line, the definition doesn't have to be dubious. If the top set for Dragonite is CB, you can't use CB. No matter what kinda lousy coverage moves you run, you can't run the set. You can run Offensive DD, Paraspreader, Monoattacker, CBBnite etc. If the top set for Gyarados is DD Mega Gyarados, you can't run that, but you would be allowed to run DD regular Gyarados which functions completely differently, RestTalk mono attacker DD or physically defensive.

    So yeah the pro is you'll see a ton of cool sets on certain mons, but the con is you won't see other mons at all because they only have 1 set.

    EDIT: I'd definitely suggest that everyone pm's you their teams and you stick this to OU only too because otherwise it's gonna get messy.
     
  4. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    M8, ur not meant to post in tour threads that aren't yours but your post is constructive and from experience and ily so I'll let you off.

    The things I am most worried about are something like Greninja.
    4 attacks LO Greninja is currently the most used set.
    But does SubNinja or Spikes Frog function differently enough to count as a new set? Honestly I don't know, same would, imo, go for Defog Skarm and not-Defog Skarm, these are the kinds of sets that I don't know where one would draw the line with them. Sets where the change is one move but the functionality is completely different because of that one move. Another example, although not one that affects this tour, offensive Landorus-T, one with Rock Polish one with SR and one with SD.

    If you really can draw a distinctive and easy to follow line with such things I would be fine with this tournament. I'll reserve changing to an approve until I can see that.
     
  5. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    "fuk ur standard shit" tour imo

    But yeah, this is pretty much the same kind of problem Zoro and I ran into when we were discussing the Ubers challenge.

    If you can draw the line somewhere and stick with it for the whole tour, I think it'd be okay.

    ily Zoro
     
  6. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    I'm not really sure where Zorodark drew the line, so I just pm'ed him my team
    since @ZoroDark has experience running this kind of tour, I would love it if he wanted to co-host with me
    I was thinking that if only one move is different, but the entire function of the pokemon changes, it would be okay
    so to Weavile's post, yes, I believe that spikes greninja is different enough, but not Sub greninja, since the spikes greninja's function is far different from 4 moves lo greninja. and yeah, I would say don't use CB talon flame in that scenario
     
  7. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    I kinda don't like how subjective the "differences" between "sets" are. I do like the idea behind the tour, but the subjectivity really turns me off. If the host(s) is/are able to get back to /all/ of the players after submitting teams and give ample time for preparing, changing, and testing the teams, I'd think it'd be a good tournament, but I don't think it's all that possible.

    Not giving a verdict now, but leaning reject
     
  8. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    I think that telling all players to pm me the teams can fix a lot of the holes
    all of you guys said
    I'm not really busy now a days, so yeah, it's possible for me to get back to all the players that submit their teams, in most likely a day or so, and should i extend the period of each round since they'll have to wait for my approval?
    And I agree that doing a different tier makes it a lot harder, so if you guys think I should stick to OU throughout the tour, then I can do that too, although the main reason I wanted to do different tiers if because i think that most of the lower tier players don't get to experience in these tours since its usually always ou based, so i would rather give a schedule at the beginning, but if you guys think using ou throughout would be more productive, then i would do that
     
  9. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    If you want to stick to any one of the lower tiers I would be happy with that as well. It's just the changing tiers makes it very awkward for you and the participants who have to build a bunch of teams.
     
  10. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    eh i guess i'll stick to ou, since i lower tier has such a small fan base
    If i tell them to pm me the teams they are going to use, i think that'll solve a lot of problems
    but what other problems do you guys think there are? I'm open to changing anything to get this tour approved

    p.s: i pmed zorodark asking how he specified his tour, and if he wanted to co-host
     
  11. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

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    With Zoro having experience in this format and a consistent tier over the course of the tournament I would be fine with approving this now, it doesn't have to be overly strict on the definitions as long as you are precisely consistent throughout.
    Approve 1/3
     
  12. Duncajuwon

    Duncajuwon Active Member

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    @ZoroDark and I are co-hosting the tournament
    (08:23) ZoroDark: hi
    (08:23) Duncajuwon: hi
    (08:23) Duncajuwon: are u interested in co-hosting?
    (08:23) ZoroDark: yeah sure

    edit: we also decided that the players must pm their teams to one of us, then if they want to use another team the next week, etc. they must re-pm their team to one of us. so that means they don't have to post the link/pastebin to the battle.
    (08:24) Duncajuwon: i was wondering
    (08:24) Duncajuwon: what'd u do to keep it less ambiguous?
    (08:25) ZoroDark: uhm
    (08:25) ZoroDark: idk for ubers
    (08:25) ZoroDark: it's pretty clear for most mons at least
    (08:25) ZoroDark: for ou i guess you could
    (08:26) ZoroDark: make a list for the top 20 mons or something at least
    (08:26) Duncajuwon: i mean like
    (08:26) Duncajuwon: i remember
    (08:26) Duncajuwon: i pmed you about deo-a
    (08:26) Duncajuwon: did u count sr 3 attacks and 4 attacks as the same set?
    (08:26) ZoroDark: i think i counted
    (08:26) ZoroDark: sash as one set
    (08:26) ZoroDark: and then lo attacker as another one
    (08:27) Duncajuwon: oh yeah
    (08:27) ZoroDark: the most important part is probably
    (08:27) Duncajuwon: i guess doing top 20 list would be good
    (08:27) ZoroDark: that if you make a decision
    (08:27) ZoroDark: you're consistent in it
    (08:27) Duncajuwon: do you think its necessary to have everyone pm their teams to us?
    (08:27) ZoroDark: only round 1
    (08:27) ZoroDark: have the winner report the teams or something
    (08:28) Duncajuwon: okay
    (08:28) Duncajuwon: i'll ad that in the thread
    (08:28) ZoroDark: well actually
    (08:28) ZoroDark: team preview is not important lol
    (08:28) ZoroDark: it should be
    (08:28) ZoroDark: people pm their teams r1 and then
    (08:29) ZoroDark: either stick with the team or
    (08:29) ZoroDark: resubmit if it they're gonna use a new one or something
    (08:31) Duncajuwon: and have them post link to battle to check?
    (08:32) ZoroDark: or honestly we could just like
    (08:32) ZoroDark: let the opponent check
    (08:32) ZoroDark: even though i guess that
    (08:32) ZoroDark: makjfamodijfamlkd
    (08:32) ZoroDark: submitting teams is the best way
    (08:32) ZoroDark: even if it means getting flooded with pm's .cry
    (08:36) Duncajuwon: yeah i agree
    (08:36) Duncajuwon: so
    (08:36) Duncajuwon: have them submit teams, and if they want to use another one, resubmit?
    (08:37) ZoroDark: ya
    (08:37) Duncajuwon: okay
    (08:37) Duncajuwon: i g2g
    (08:37) ZoroDark: alright
    (08:37) Duncajuwon: cya
    (08:37) ZoroDark: ya cya
    (08:37) Duncajuwon: i'll post later
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
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  13. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    With these changes I'm going to approve

    Approve 2/3
     
  14. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    lol @ZoroDark is such a bae

    approve 3/3

    grats, I'll add it to the Tour Schedule in a few minutes.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask any TDs, good luck!

    edit: added to tour schedule
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014
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