Shop

Discussion in 'Active Themes' started by IceKirby, Aug 8, 2014.

  1. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Aah, the capitalism! Gotta love having lots of money to buy whatever you like and do whatever you want!
    This is what this theme is about: Money!

    Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10065307/Mafia/Shop.js
    Configuration File: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10065307/Mafia/ShopSummary.js (use this file to read the theme's details, since reading the actual code may be hard with its 32k lines).

    Concept:
    Players gain Coins and can use them to buy items (abilities).

    Sides/Roles (each role is a side, and none of them gets team-reveal as this is faction-based):
    Hard Worker: Can work at night to gain 3~4 Coins (chance for 4 Coins is 20%). Maximum Coins: 9
    Thief: Can steal up to 2 Coins from another player every night. Maximum Coins: 9
    Rich People: Start with more Coins than other sides. Automatically gain 2 Coins every night. Has more items available. Maximum Coins: 15
    Philanthropist: Wins with all sides. Can publicly donate 2 Coins and 1 item (Shield, Dress, Lens, Gun or Sword) to another player at night. If lynched, first and last voters gain 5 Coins each. Maximum Coins: 0 (can't buy items)

    Items:
    Shield: Protect (1 coin)
    Dress: Distract (2 coins)
    Lens: Inspect(3 coins)
    Gun: Nightkill (4 coins)
    Badge: +1 vote (5 coins, permanent, max of 3 votes)
    Sword: Daykill (6 coins, reveals self but not role)
    Drug: Poison (4 coins, Rich People only)
    Speaker: Expose (4 coins, Rich People only, doesn't reveal self)

    Except for Badge, items bought can only be used once, but you can stock items to use later.

    Priority:
    [1] Rich with a Dress (Distract)
    [2] Thief with a Dress (Distract)
    [3] Worker with a Dress (Distract)
    [4] Worker (Work)
    [5] Philanthropist (Donate)
    [6] Thief (Steal)
    [7] Anyone (Buy item)
    [8] Philanthropist (Give item)
    [9] Anyone with a Shield (Protect)
    [10] Rich with a Gun (Kill)
    [11] Thief with a Gun (Kill)
    [12] Worker with a Gun (Kill)
    [13] Rich with a Drug (Poison)
    [14] Anyone with a Lens (Inspect)

    Spawn:
    The '5c' on roles names indicates their money. The '1v' indicates their vote, which is always 1 at game start.

    List 1 (4~9 players):
    1. Worker (poor-5c-1v-base)
    2. Worker (poor-5c-1v-base)
    3. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    4. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    5. Thief (thief-3c-1v-base)
    6. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    7. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    8. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    9. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)

    List 2 (10~20 players):
    1. Rich (rich-12c-1v-base)
    2. Rich (rich-9c-1v-base)
    3. Rich (rich-6c-1v-base)
    4. Worker (poor-5c-1v-base)
    5. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    6. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)
    7. Worker (poor-2c-1v-base)
    8. Thief (thief-6c-1v-base)
    9. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)
    10. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)
    11. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    12. Rich (rich-7c-1v-base)
    13. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)
    14. Thief (thief-6c-1v-base)
    15. Worker (poor-7c-1v-base)
    16. Rich (rich-6c-1v-base)
    17. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    18. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    19. Rich (rich-10c-1v-base)
    20. Philanthropist (conspirator)

    List 3 (21~31 players):
    1. Philanthropist (conspirator)
    2. Worker (poor-6c-1v-base)
    3. Worker (poor-5c-1v-base)
    4. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    5. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)
    6. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)
    7. Worker (poor-2c-1v-base)
    8. Worker (poor-2c-1v-base)
    9. Thief (thief-6c-1v-base)
    10. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    11. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    12. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    13. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)
    14. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)
    15. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)
    16. Rich (rich-12c-1v-base)
    17. Rich (rich-11c-1v-base)
    18. Rich (rich-10c-1v-base)
    19. Rich (rich-9c-1v-base)
    20. Rich (rich-8c-1v-base)
    21. Rich (rich-7c-1v-base)
    22. Rich (rich-6c-1v-base)
    23. Worker (poor-4c-1v-base)
    24. Thief (thief-5c-1v-base)
    25. Rich (rich-7c-1v-base)
    26. Worker (poor-7c-1v-base)
    27. Thief (thief-6c-1v-base)
    28. Rich (rich-13c-1v-base)
    29. Worker (poor-3c-1v-base)
    30. Rich (rich-6c-1v-base)
    31. Thief (thief-4c-1v-base)

    Possible Concerns:
    -Overall balance may need lots of tweaks, like starting coins, items price, money cap, etc.
    -Each side is given a different method to obtain more Coins, but those may need some balance. BTW, Hard Workers can gain more than the others because they can be distracted and prevented from working (Rich People are immune to that), while Thieves not only gain Coins, but they take them aways from opponents.
    -It's a faction-based theme, which may lead to people not knowing "who's bad", but I hope the item system is dynamic enough to not get people idling.
    -Should I make Philanthropist spawn earlier? It sounds like one of those roles that really spice a game.
    -Flavour worries: Rich People could use a better name (I initially had them as Bourgeois, but too hard too type). Some items could have better names (Lens, Badge, Speaker, Drugs).
    -Rich People automatically gain coins every night, but receive no message indicating that happened. Since that only stops when it caps, I hope it won't be a problem (also, /myrole will tell current coins).
    -The code has a feature not yet enabled on Mafia, but that will be available soon. Lack of that feature doesn't prevent theme from working, it's only a convenience thing.
    -Code is long but quite simple to edit :3 It was tested on my test server, so it should work fine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  2. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    This is a very intriguing concept. I'd like to see how it plays out.

    With regards to the structure, I have a few concerns. I haven't gone through all the code so sorry if some are redundant.
    • A shield is one coin; is the shield consumed when used? If not, I can see it leading to somewhat stalled situations. I can't read. 1x Protect might not even be worth a coin, unless you can use it on yourself.
    • Distract - all roles on the same side with a Dress have distract at the same priority. This can lead to overlap issues.
    • Lens at 3 might be too low. Considering that nearly everyone in the early game would be able to Inspect immediately. Even if it's one-off, that's pretty intense.
    Faction base is fine, although it could also be a village vs mafia setup as well. I think it would be more interesting to have Rich spawn in smaller groups but have significantly more resources, while making Workers work as a consensus village and aim to vote off technically "bads". The same goes for Thieves actually. It's more representative of 'class warfare', and also more interesting in the vote phase to have underfunded village against overfunded mafia. Even if you gave none of the sides startup.team-reveal, it would benefit from expanding the Workers and lowering the other sides' counts.

    As for flavor, Bourgeois is much better in my opinion. Lens/Badge/Drug are all simple and easy to type, I wouldn't worry about it.

    Balance and such would likely need testing to work out anything. Besides the structural things, the only thing I can recommend is possibly more expansive gameplay.

    Instead of simply having all Workers get 3-4 coins per turn, you could experiment with extra roles that get money through other means. What about a role like a Mortician who gets an amount of coins if someone dies (it could even be relative to how many coins the dead person has). Or a gunsmith that gets extra money every time a gun is purchased (and equivalents for other items). Not necessary, of course, but I think extra and more diverse roles could help!

    If you want to consider any extra items, what about a Neighbour command that only Workers can access? I think it would help for spreading information and giving village information to work with. It could be a Stamp or something, and probably cost 3. Also not necessary, but a suggestion.
     
  3. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    There's actually a hidden priority here too. The priority for distract and kill is Rich > Thief > Worker, but with number of coins (more = faster) and votes (more = faster) defining subpriority too. This means a Thief with 3 coins will distract before a Thief with 2.
    Considering a Gun is just 1 Coin away, having inspect too expensive would make people not use it at all.
    It could. The question here is "would it be better?". Not that I think it wouldn't be good (I think my first draft even was that way), but at some point I realized Faction-based would make more sense (I don't remember the reason now, but there was one).
    It should be fairly simple to have a Village vs Mafia format, but Mafia needs more factions themes, so I'd like to try that one before.

    I don't think I ever typed it right on a first try on the several times I had to before I decided to change to Rich People :x

    I like the Mortician idea. Gunsmith is Meh. I doubt people would buy Stamp at all even if it costed 1 Coin (Neighbour often looks like a consolation prize PR :x)
    But I see those like ideas for the future. The first version should be kept as simple as possible to keep the focus on the item system.

    BTW, added one more item to the Concerns section regarding the Philanthropist.
     
  4. Dreadpool

    Dreadpool Inb4 I die N1...

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    This is a really nice concept, good to give people objectives and choice that differ from time to time :)
    I like how each role is it's own side. Perhaps each side could have a boss role that gets an extra coin each night.

    Things to suggest:
    Sales, either a salesman or an item that gets a discount for a player/their team.
    Stealing from the shop: Get the item for free, 50% chance (maybe more) to fail and be banned/blocked from shopping for a while.
    Taxman: Takes money from a player based on how many coins they have.
     
  5. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Now that I actually went through the code I see what you mean. It shouldn't be a problem then, unless 2 of the same exact role distract. But that's not only unlikely but negligible.

    Gun should be more, too, in my opinion. I don' think it's balanced if Workers can Kill or Inspect every night. Inspect at 4 and Gun at 5 would be more fit imo.

    I think it would be. Up to you though.

    That's because Neighbor only functions as an unfalsifiable claim in most themes. However, in a theme where the entire side can buy something to verify their identity, it can be used to clean several people very quickly. Because anyone can claim "Worker", and no amount of counterclaims can disprove or prove it, the ability to give someone else a confirmation of your role is much more valuable.

    Probably would work fine as early as 10 or 13, and would definitely help make games more interesting. However, the danger is that such large introductions of resources in such small games would throw balance off and make games pretty random. Could you make Philanthropist give only money (not items) in smaller games?
     
  6. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    That would likely lead to games having a slow pacing, since it would take more time to get money for the information/offensive items.
    Increasing the price only for Gun could work, but for both it could make Lens being picked even less, since players would likely save coins more often.

    Noted in case I try the village setup later.

    Philanthropist can only give 1 item per turn, so even in 10p I don't think it would be too much. But I was thinking about having it on 12p+.
    BTW, I'm thinking about putting a recharge on the give item commands so Philanthropist won't throw swords to everyone (possibly a different recharge for each item).
     
  7. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Fair point. Since it's factional Inspect isn't as big of a deal. And Gun isn't overpowered if some factions become connected through Inspects (two of the same side can BG each other). Most of my thoughts/concerns were coming from a village vs mafia standpoint, but factionally it should work fine as is.

    This is probably the best way to balance it.
     
  8. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    Granted this theme a special testing period to make transitioning to the new QC system faster and smoother.

    PS: UpdateCharges is throwing an error. I assume Mafia needs to be updated, correct?
     
  9. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Yes, it needs (its been almost 2 months since last update :x).
    But lack of UpdateCharges will not break the theme or anything.
     
  10. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    First log (7 players): https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz4qry9byozef2z/Shop_2014.09.16_22.51.txt
    Log 2 (9 players): https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fak4pnji1x42cv/Shop_2014.09.16_23.17.txt
    Log 3 (6 players): https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6tblmfgiwvl5ae/Shop_2014.09.16_23.49.txt

    I could try the "Use an action at the same night when that item is bought" mechanic (similar to EV), but I'm not sure if it's possible for this theme. Reminding that Log 1 still didn't have the updateCharges thing, which should make the game more convenient (log 2 has).
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2014
  11. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Played my first game of it today and didn't realize Thieves didn't know each other, can you edit that in your role description in the OP? Also is it possible to lay out the things you can buy every time you get a different amount of coins? Might be better for new people to know what you can buy (didn't see anything come up past gun in the list of items when I played, as I only got the list of items available during night 1)
     
  12. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    List of items you can buy is always available with /myrole. What I can do is show it at the end of every night so players will always see them.

    Thieves don't get team-reveal because they are not "mafia". This is a faction-based theme.

    EDIT: Made a few changes. Mostly minor stuff for convenience (like the /myrole message being automatically displayed at the end of the night if you gained/lost coins), but there's also an important change: Priority for Buy Items was changed to be slower than /work, /steal and /donate. This means you can try to use the newly-gained coins from those commands at the same night you receive them.
    BTW, commands to Buy Item are not blocked by distract.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  13. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    I bought a badge n1. I had 7 coins d1.

    (21:55:56) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:55:56) Times Up! :
    (21:55:56) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (21:55:56) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (21:55:56) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (21:55:56) ±Game: You have 5 coins. Items you can buy: Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (21:55:56) ±Current Roles: Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (21:55:56) ±Current Players: Epikhairz, Fiery Espeon, MeowMix, Metallica, RiceKirby, T. E. Lawrence, Veteran Padgett, Water.
    (21:55:56) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief
    (21:55:56) ±Time: Night 1
    (21:55:56) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (21:55:56) ***************************************************************************************

    (21:56:26) ±Game: You have chosen to badge Veteran Padgett!

    (21:56:35) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:56:35) Times Up! :
    (21:56:35) ±Game: You stole 2 coins from Epikhairz!
    (21:56:35) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Badge (increases your vote by 1)! I see you still have 2 coins!
    (21:56:35) No one died! :
    (21:56:35) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (21:56:35) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (21:56:35) ±Game: You have 7 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 6 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (21:56:35) ***************************************************************************************


    (21:58:05) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:58:05) Times Up! :
    (21:58:05) ±Game: You stole 2 coins from Metallica!
    (21:58:05) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Gun (can /kill during the night)! I see you still have 5 coins!
    (21:58:05) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Lens (can /inspect during the night)! I see you still have 2 coins!
    (21:58:05) *** Oh, you died. And to make things worse, your family is now fighting over the inheritance!
    (21:58:05) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named Veteran Padgett died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (21:58:05) ***************************************************************************************
     
  14. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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  15. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    Obey to Kyubey
    My first Shop game
    (21:58:12) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:58:12) Times Up! :
    (21:58:12) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (21:58:12) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (21:58:12) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (21:58:12) ±Game: You have 5 coins. Items you can buy: Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (21:58:12) ±Current Roles: Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (21:58:12) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Synortex, TraceOfLife, VirajVora, obey to kyubey.
    (21:58:12) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief
    (21:58:12) ±Time: Night 1
    (21:58:12) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (21:58:12) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:58:14) +TraceOfLife: thats dumb
    (21:58:18) obey to kyubey: Saboteur is like boycotter, but his curses endure only 1 night
    (21:58:21) VirajVora: I did buddi
    (21:58:23) VirajVora: buddy
    (21:58:33) ±Game: You have chosen to steal TraceOfLife!
    (21:58:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:58:51) Times Up! :
    (21:58:51) ±Game: You stole 2 coins from TraceOfLife!
    (21:58:51) No one died! :
    (21:58:52) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (21:58:52) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (21:58:52) ±Game: You have 7 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 6 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (21:58:52) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:58:52) ±Current Roles: Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (21:58:52) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Synortex, TraceOfLife, VirajVora, obey to kyubey.
    (21:58:52) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief
    (21:58:52) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (21:58:52) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (21:58:52) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:03) Synortex: who took my coins?!
    (21:59:08) +TraceOfLife: thief u suck
    (21:59:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:21) ±Current Roles: Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (21:59:21) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Synortex, TraceOfLife, VirajVora, obey to kyubey.
    (21:59:21) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief
    (21:59:21) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (21:59:21) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (21:59:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:35) BulbasaurDBeast: wow i get voted npw
    (21:59:37) BulbasaurDBeast: noe
    (21:59:39) BulbasaurDBeast: now
    (21:59:42) obey to kyubey: Sooo we are 3 three tieves against 2 workers ?
    (21:59:43) ±Shop Owner: VirajVora voted for BulbasaurDBeast!
    (21:59:43) ±Shop Owner: TraceOfLife voted for BulbasaurDBeast!
    (21:59:47) +TraceOfLife: yeah bye
    (21:59:48) VirajVora: Team
    (21:59:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:51) Times Up! :
    (21:59:51) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named BulbasaurDBeast was lynched by 3 person(s)! And they had no life insurance!
    (21:59:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:51) ±Current Roles: Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (21:59:51) ±Current Players: Synortex, TraceOfLife, VirajVora, obey to kyubey.
    (21:59:51) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (21:59:52) ±Time: Night 2
    (21:59:52) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (21:59:52) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:54) BulbasaurDBeast left the channel.
    (22:00:02) obey to kyubey: 3 persons ?
    (22:00:08) obey to kyubey: weren't only 2 votes ?
    (22:00:18) ±Hint: You can only use this action on yourself!
    (22:00:19) Synortex: ./badge
    (22:00:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:00:21) Times Up! :
    (22:00:22) ±Game: Someone stole 2 of your coins!
    (22:00:22) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named VirajVora died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (22:00:22) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (22:00:22) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (22:00:22) ±Game: You have 5 coins. Items you can buy: Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (22:00:22) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:00:22) ±Current Roles: Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (22:00:22) ±Current Players: Synortex, TraceOfLife, obey to kyubey.
    (22:00:22) ±Current Team: Thief
    (22:00:22) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (22:00:22) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (22:00:22) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:00:28) +TraceOfLife: lmao
    (22:00:33) +TraceOfLife: its ok
    (22:00:39) Synortex: so trace is badged? idek
    (22:00:40) +TraceOfLife: i have distract
    (22:00:44) +TraceOfLife: i dont
    (22:00:50) ±CommandBot: The command badge doesn't exist
    (22:00:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:00:51) ±Current Roles: Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (22:00:51) ±Current Players: Synortex, TraceOfLife, obey to kyubey.
    (22:00:51) ±Current Team: Thief
    (22:00:52) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (22:00:52) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (22:00:52) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:01:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:01:21) Times Up! :
    (22:01:21) No one was voted off!:
    (22:01:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:01:21) ±Current Roles: Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (22:01:22) ±Current Players: Synortex, TraceOfLife, obey to kyubey.
    (22:01:22) ±Current Team: Thief
    (22:01:22) ±Time: Night 3
    (22:01:22) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (22:01:22) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:01:25) obey to kyubey: there is an inspect to buy ?
    (22:01:33) ±Game: You have chosen to steal TraceOfLife!
    (22:01:41) ±Game: You have chosen to gun obey to kyubey!
    Disconnected from Server! If the disconnect is due to an internet problem, try to reconnect once the issue is solved.
    (22:02:20) Connected to Server!
    (22:02:20) The server refused the reconnect attempt with the reason: Your IP is too different from what's expected.
    Disconnected from Server!
    (22:02:20) Attempting a new connection.
    (22:02:21) Connected to Server!
    (22:02:24) obey to kyubey joined the channel.
    (22:02:24) Welcome Message: Type /mafiarules to view the rules, /help to see handy hints, and /roles themename:rolename to find info on a specific role | Mafia Last Updated: September 16th | Prevent Teamvote has been changed. You can now either use /teamvote or just vote your partner twice! (Up + Enter is a quick way)
    (22:02:24) ±Info: A Shop-themed mafia game is in progress! You can join the next game by typing /join during signups after the game finishes!
    (22:02:24) Welcome Message: The updates are available at http://pokemon-online.eu/ -- report any bugs on the forum.
    (22:02:24) *** Type in /Rules to see the rules. ***
    (22:02:24) ±CommandBot: Use !commands to see the commands!
    (22:02:24) ±CountBot: Max number of players online was 1556.
    (22:02:24) ±CountBot: Server uptime is 27d 4h 8m 6s

    (22:02:24) +TraceOfLife: you hard workers should vote with me
    (22:02:31) ±Shop Owner: Synortex voted for obey to kyubey!
    (22:02:34) Synortex: yolo
    (22:02:35) ±Shop Owner: obey to kyubey voted for Synortex!
    (22:02:40) ±Shop Owner: TraceOfLife voted for obey to kyubey!
    (22:02:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (22:02:41) Times Up! :
    (22:02:41) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named obey to kyubey was lynched by 2 person(s)! And they had no life insurance!
    (22:02:41) ±Shop Owner: 'I am a Hard Worker myself, so I can sympathize with people like Synortex and TraceOfLife, who win only with honest methods!'
    (22:02:41) ***************************************************************************************

    Seems a nice game, the only problem I found is this:
    (21:59:21) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (21:59:21) ***************************************************************************************

    (21:59:35) BulbasaurDBeast: wow i get voted npw
    (21:59:37) BulbasaurDBeast: noe
    (21:59:39) BulbasaurDBeast: now
    (21:59:42) obey to kyubey: Sooo we are 3 three tieves against 2 workers ?
    (21:59:43) ±Shop Owner: VirajVora voted for BulbasaurDBeast!
    (21:59:43) ±Shop Owner: TraceOfLife voted for BulbasaurDBeast!

    (21:59:47) +TraceOfLife: yeah bye
    (21:59:48) VirajVora: Team
    (21:59:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (21:59:51) Times Up! :
    (21:59:51) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named BulbasaurDBeast was lynched by 3 person(s)! And they had no life insurance!
    (21:59:51) ***************************************************************************************

    as you can see the voters are only 2 but because one of them has 2 as vote power: the bot message said that it was lynched by 3 persons, it could be a good choice to modify the lynching message from "lynched by X person(s)" to" received X votes".
    Or some other less confusing message.
     
  16. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    You don't get it, Trace is a person, OfLife is another =P

    Meh, "received X votes" sounds so lame. I will see if I can find a better option before changing to that.
     
  17. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    Then it's wrong anyway because Viraj and Vora too are two persons ;)
    Anyway you are right "received X votes" is lame, change it with wathever you like it.
    Maybe something like:
    ±Shop Owner: I heard that a ROLE named NAME has X outstanding invoice(s)! So we kicked them out from the market!
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2014
  18. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Fiery Espeon
    (15:27:03) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:03) Times Up! :
    (15:27:03) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (15:27:03) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:27:03) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:27:03) ±Game: You have 6 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 6 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:27:03) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:27:03) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Bowser, Diamondslight, Disgruntled., FhKyle, Fiery Espeon, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Super Kami Guru, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:27:03) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief
    (15:27:03) ±Time: Night 1
    (15:27:03) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (15:27:03) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:05) Bowser: oh Christ this game is gonna be great
    (15:27:06) Disgruntled.: I'm fed up with village..I don't mind who wins..as long as its not them, -Disgruntled. then strikes a pose-
    (15:27:07) Super Kami Guru: ^
    (15:27:07) ikoke joined the channel.

    (15:27:12) XY OU battle between Judaistic and ikoke started.

    (15:27:21) ±Game: You have chosen to steal Diamondslight!
    (15:27:23) Mixed X/Y battle between killer zs and xs and the kids are alright started.

    (15:27:23) ±Game: You have chosen to sword Fiery Espeon!
    (15:27:24) the kids are alright forfeited against killer zs and xs.

    (15:27:24) Fiery Espeon: os many rich
    (15:27:27) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (15:27:27) ±Role: Philanthropist
    (15:27:27) ±Ability: Can give a Sword, Gun, Lens, Dress or Shield to another player every night. Can give 2 coins to another player every night. If lynched, first and last voter gain 5 Coins each. Wins with anyone.
    (15:27:27) ±Players: 14-30 Players
    (15:27:27) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (15:27:28) +Sanaki: Philanthropist on me pls
    (15:27:30) Mixed X/Y battle between ShadowXT and killer zs and xs started.

    (15:27:37) Fiery Espeon: Philanthropist on me
    (15:27:40) Fiery Espeon: i ly
    (15:27:40) *** Super Kami Guru philanthropist's sanaki
    (15:27:40) Hopkirk: i come from poor family, all died
    (15:27:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:43) Times Up! :
    (15:27:43) ±Game: You stole 2 coins from Diamondslight!
    (15:27:43) ±Game: Someone stole 2 of your coins!
    (15:27:43) ±Game: Someone stole 2 of your coins!
    (15:27:43) ±Shop Owner: You don't have enough coins to buy a Sword!
    (15:27:43) No one died! :
    (15:27:43) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:27:43) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 2 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:27:43) ±Game: You have 4 coins. Items you can buy: Gun (nightkill, 4 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:27:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:43) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:27:43) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Bowser, Diamondslight, Disgruntled., FhKyle, Fiery Espeon, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Super Kami Guru, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:27:43) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief
    (15:27:43) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (15:27:43) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:27:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:43) -greninja- won against [P4L]MNOPYZ Strife.

    (15:27:44) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:44) ±Shop Owner: Did you guys see when Synortex sliced Disgruntled. with that awesome sword? I can sell you a sword identical to that one for only 6 coins!
    (15:27:44) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Rich named Disgruntled. died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:27:44) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:48) Fiery Espeon: someone stole me
    (15:27:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:51) ±Shop Owner: Did you guys see when Super Kami Guru sliced Bowser with that awesome sword? I can sell you a sword identical to that one for only 6 coins!
    (15:27:51) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Worker named Bowser died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:27:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:51) Fiery Espeon: /
    (15:27:51) ShadowXT forfeited against killer zs and xs.

    (15:27:53) +Sanaki: rip
    (15:27:54) Fiery Espeon: *two people stole me
    (15:27:57) +Sanaki: wait
    (15:27:58) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:58) ±Shop Owner: Did you guys see when Silent.Angel4 sliced Fiery Espeon with that awesome sword? I can sell you a sword identical to that one for only 6 coins!
    (15:27:58) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named Fiery Espeon died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:27:58) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:27:59) Pichu King: lol
    (15:28:01) Fiery Espeon: [Dead] .....
    (15:28:02) Super Kami Guru: triple rip
    (15:28:02) Bowser: [Dead] oh
    (15:28:06) Bowser: [Dead] well fuck that
    (15:28:09) Bowser: [Dead] shit game was shit
    (15:28:13) Saffron: reminds me of castle
    (15:28:13) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:28:13) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:28:13) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Diamondslight, FhKyle, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Super Kami Guru, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:28:13) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (15:28:13) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:28:13) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:28:14) Fiery Espeon: [Dead] fucking Silent.Angel4 always targets me
    (15:28:16) Super Kami Guru: ikr
    (15:28:19) Mixed X/Y battle between killer zs and xs and fragm started.

    (15:28:24) Pmd2 Grov: All that Dking
    (15:28:27) Super Kami Guru: castle was horrifying.
    (15:28:30) +Sanaki: ok
    (15:28:30) Super Kami Guru: team kills everywhere
    (15:28:33) Pmd2 Grov: ^
    (15:28:34) killer zs and xs forfeited against fragm.

    (15:28:36) Super Kami Guru: as far as the eye can read
    (15:28:41) Jessiquanda: castle was the best
    (15:28:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:28:43) Times Up! :
    (15:28:43) No one was voted off!:
    (15:28:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:28:43) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:28:43) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Diamondslight, FhKyle, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Super Kami Guru, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:28:43) ±Time: Night 2
    (15:28:43) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:28:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:28:45) Super Kami Guru: lolno
    (15:28:55) Jessiquanda: everybody hated it
    (15:28:57) Fiery Espeon: [Dead] IF Silent.Angel4
    (15:28:58) Super Kami Guru: ikr
    (15:28:58) Fiery Espeon: [Dead] is thief
    (15:29:01) Synortex: ^^
    (15:29:01) Fiery Espeon: [Dead] im going to fucking quit
    (15:29:05) Jessiquanda: but it was hillarious when bombs got stuck with killers
    (15:29:05) Super Kami Guru: hating it was too mainstream
    (15:29:13) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:13) Times Up! :
    (15:29:13) No one died! :
    (15:29:13) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:13) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:29:13) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Diamondslight, FhKyle, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Super Kami Guru, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:29:13) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (15:29:13) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:29:13) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:14) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:14) ±Shop Owner: Did you guys see when Sanaki sliced Super Kami Guru with that awesome sword? I can sell you a sword identical to that one for only 6 coins!
    (15:29:14) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Rich named Super Kami Guru died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:29:14) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:20) +Sanaki: y that was obv
    (15:29:21) +Sanaki: rich
    (15:29:23) Mixed X/Y battle between Kruizer and killer zs and xs started.

    (15:29:28) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:28) ±Shop Owner: How annoying, this rich guy won't stop shouting "Diamondslight is one of the ~TargetSide~!" with their speaker!
    (15:29:28) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:36) Insane Player: BEST EXPOSE
    (15:29:37) Saffron: lol
    (15:29:38) +Sanaki: lol
    (15:29:38) +Diamondslight: o.o?
    (15:29:38) Insane Player: ~targetside~
    (15:29:40) Hopkirk: looks like a little bug
    (15:29:40) Synortex: wat
    (15:29:43) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:29:43) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Rich, Rich, Rich, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker, Worker.
    (15:29:43) ±Current Players: -greninja-, Diamondslight, FhKyle, Hopkirk, Insane Player, Jessiquanda, Lady Marian, Pichu King, Pmd2 Grov, Saffron, Sanaki, Silent.Angel4, Synortex, VirajVora, malfiaman123.
    (15:29:43) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (15:29:43) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:29:43) ***************************************************************************************

    There is an expose bug. Btw, peak games are horrifying. People are comparing it to castle. You should definitely make Swords and Guns much more pricier in Peak games.
     
    Hopkirk likes this.
  19. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Oh, I will fix it later today. Feel free to ask for a disable for now (I will ask for an enablement when I fix it).

    About peak and prices, I have been thinking about ways to increase the pacing for games, since I have seen some 4p games taking 6 turns. My idea is to increase the price for Gun and Sword, make players gain more coins per turn and possibly make Dress and Lens cheaper.
    The idea is to make players buy more items other than Gun/Sword so games are more dynamic. I will also tweak initial money so swords are not so common on D1.
     
  20. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    When you get prices set, you should add a guide to /tips so I know how much a sword costs.
     
  21. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Now that we have seen some games, I wanted to know who's interested in seeing this theme with a Village vs Mafia setup instead of a faction-based.

    Another idea that I had (regardless of format) is to add one extra role to each side, something like Worker (Can gain 1~2 coins with /work) and Hard Worker (Can gain 3~4 coins). Possibly the weaker version would also have access to less items (example: normal Workers can't buy Sword, but Hard Workers can). The idea here is to encourage even more the use of cheaper items like Dress, Shield and Lens.
     
  22. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    Idk whether a village vs mafia setup would be better or worse. The Hard Worker idea sounds good though.
     
  23. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Gun should be nerfed a bit. Badge and Gun are the same price now. It would be better if Gun was pricier, or Badge was less expensive. I think making Gun cost 6/7 coins would be the better option, and if that is done, then Badge can stay as 5 coins. Also, shouldn't dress be pricier than lens? If you think about it, Distracting someone is more of an advantage and the better command in this kind of setup.
     
  24. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Remember that Badge is permanent, while each Gun will only give you 1 shot.
    Also, if I made guns even more expensive the games would end being even slower.

    I don't think so. Remember, items are 1-shot only, so a dress will distract someone for one night (which is indeed strong as it prevents Workers/Thieves from obtaining money, but it's still for a single night), but a Lens will give you information (another player's role) which lasts for the whole game.
    Dress can indeed be lethal, but if it was made more expensive than no one would bother buying it.
     
  25. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I'm gonna hop back into Mafia and try to get this started, then review from there. Only played one game so far, so yeah.

    EDIT: Didn't see it got disabled, I'll look over things in the next few days then.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  26. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
  27. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Alright, got a few games in, including with some new people, so time to review this thing.

    Creativity - 4/5

    While it may not be the most exciting topic in the world (unless you're a teenage girl who works at Hot Topic but shhh), the theme most certainly creates its own feel to it. We have no theme like this on the server as it is, and the theme allows for the player to play as they wish. There's nothing truly off-beat as it stands right now either, so you're pretty solid in this department.

    Cohesion - 5/5

    As I said in the Creativity section, there's nothing truly off-beat here. Everything is pretty simple and creates its own little world: You got the people trying to earn their way through life, petty thieves trying to steal, rich people boasting how they have more wealth, and the Philanthropist just trying to help. Nothing seems wrong about it, so you get a 5/5 here.

    Craftsmanship - 4/5

    The only problems I have here are how there's an unevenness in sides during odd-numbered player games and how the Thief can only steal up to 3 coins when the workers can earn 4-5 every night. I'd include some possibility for the Thieves to steal 4 or 5 because, as it stands, disregarding overlap in stealing, Thieves "earn" their cash slower, thus giving the Workers a slight advantage. Besides that, everything else is pretty stable.

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow) - 5/5

    For this part of the review, I grabbed 3 people who had never played the theme before, one who played Mafia and just hadn't played Shop before, one who never played Mafia, and one who never played Mafia with English not being their natural language. We played a game and everyone grasped it pretty easily from what I asked afterwards, with the game being pretty straight-forward for each of them (except for the third person from time to time). Combined with the pacing being at just the right spot, you get a 5/5 here.

    Concept - 5/5

    In recent Mafia history, we've seen themes overlap each other in terms of ideas, whether it be copying standard roles and just reshifting them or basically a reskin of a former theme. This theme does neither of that, allowing for a simplistic experience on the channel that is like no other. There's no defined teams, but at the same time there's ways to go about doing this in your own way and it just makes this game a standout to me. With a unique playstyle to the theme as well as high replay value, you get a 5/5 here.

    Total - 23/25
     
  28. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I'd love to do that, but given how complex the code already is, making /steal having a chance to steal more is not possible. Actually, even if the code was simpler it would probably not be possible.
    The thing is that while Workers gain more money than Thieves, Thieves can also hurt their enemies when they gain money, so that kind of balances the difference in coin gain.
    What can still be tweaked is the amount each gain and the chance for Workers to gain a bonus. For example, I could keep the same rates as now (Worker gain 4~5, Thief steal 3), but make the chance for Worker to gain 5 really small (below 5%). Or I could make Workers gain 3~4 coins instead, but with a higher chance for 4 coins (over 50%).

    On a different topic, I was thinking if the theme needs another solo role to threat everyone and work as a common enemy (similar to Neighbour Assassin in ClanWar and Shedinja in Trainers). It may help putting pressure on players so they will try lynch people more often.
     
  29. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    That could work, it'd just have to be tested to see if the balance still survives. And I'd go with 3~4 coins then if you were to change it.
     
  30. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

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    Creativity - 5/5
    I found that this theme pushed the current limits on creativity, It made a new niche in Mafia, and a whole new flavor, and I enjoyed playing this immensely. The Buy/Steal commands and the ability to collect $$ and use it to buy things to further yourself and your team, and I found this to be very different and very well implemented. Good Job

    Cohesion - 5/5
    Its a theme of its own, it flows well, it stands out and everything works out well. I don;t think anything much else has to be said, cohesively, its a work of art, and it simulates life in a way.


    Craftsmanship - 5/5
    I honestly feel that the theme is fine as it is. I understand what @Joeypals!! is saying about balance, but in my honest view, The theives hurt and steal at the same time, so it would be natural for them to earn less because they have the potential to take a good chunk out of the villies. It just all makes sense y'know?

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)- 5/5

    I'll be honest with you here. I was kinda retarded when I first played this theme, and didn't grasp the concept at all, but upon seeing other players play it for the first time, either first time playing mafia, or first time playing shop, they understood how it went fine. It flows well and doesn't feel artificial.

    Concept - 5/5
    Brand new concept, brand new theme. It's totally different from what other themes are offering, and isn't that the point here? I don't think anymore has to be said. Its fresh, Its lemony, Its Will Smith.

    Total - 25/25


    I may have been a bit lenient here and there, but I honestly feel that this theme is as close to perfect as you can get. Its just so different, but yet it flows so well and is so fun to play
    Good job!
     
  31. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I will have to contest that rating. 25/25 is too exaggerated. Let's point some problems with the review:
    -Creativity should mostly cover about flavour of the theme (how well it's built, how the roles are characterized, game messages, etc). Gameplay/mechanics have their own criterion (Concept). This point is also partially true to Joey's review.
    -The Cohesion part as a whole was very poorly elaborated. It feels like you don't even know what's supposed to be said here.
    -If you didn't grasp the concept at all when you first played, then how can it get a 5/5 on an aspect that involves Learning Curve? It doesn't make much sense in my opinion. If you had a problem here, I'd like you to explain it better so I can improve it.

    Overall, I'm not satisfied with only saying "This is good" or "this works". I want to hear which part of the theme makes you think that for each criterion.
     
    Joeypals!! likes this.
  32. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Creativity - 4/5
    Build (or rather, buy) your own village. Currency is definitely something which hasn't been explored yet in Mafia, so the resemblance to an MMORPG is quite appealing. All power roles items are quite standard but there's only so much you can do with a new mechanic.

    Cohesion - 4/5
    In terms of society, you've created that economic hierarchy of the rich, the middle-class, and the criminals that steal to survive yet sometimes end up better off than the working class. I guess what you could do to improve the total cohesion of the theme is make items which directly counter each other, like a Mask to avoid inspects but I'm afraid of making things too complicated for new players.

    Craftsmanship - 4/5
    I was always skeptical of the balance for Clan War-esque themes but because everyone operates with the same ability (getting money) it's not too bad. There's definitely a lot of room for players to make their own playstyles and change the way the game is going but when I played it it felt really slow, as in you couldn't actually pull off informed lynches from Day 1 on and there's no kills early either so you're just kinda stuck there hoarding supplies. That's really the bi issue for me here.

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)- 3/5
    As I said above, pacing seems kinda meh. The theme struggles from a lack of reliable information because no one knows their team since there's no mafia side and therefore no informed minority, which is the case for Clan War-style themes so that's not too bad. If you don't use /tips you won't be able to see the full inventory of items and having to refer to that is mildly inconvenient.

    Concept - 4/5
    Every role is a key role because everyone has the equal opportunity to make plays over the course of the game, but as we saw from the communist model of society, equality =/= efficiency, so you spread the amount of potential across all the roles rather than just a few and see how people play it out. Therefore the amount of key roles seems a bit too much, although from a player's perspective it's pretty fun to play.

    Final Score - 19/25

    Running Total - 67/75
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  33. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    The part about creativity is really the only decent part of this review. While it isn't great, it at least describes that the use of money in the theme is innovative. The other sections need to do that as well. In Cohesion for example, instead of just saying "The theme flows well" you should talk about specific examples from the theme such as how the theme pits the honest hard-workers against the thieves who earn money through dishonest methods and the possibly dishonest rich people, how does the philanthropist fit into that, and how well do the mechanics fit with each other and the purpose of each role.

    A big concern is that in the Course section you say you had trouble grasping the concept the first time you played the theme, yet you didn't explain what the problem was and even gave a score of 5 for that section. If there is a potential issue with the theme you need to let Rice know or else he can't try to fix it.

    You can resubmit a review for this theme if you want, but this review will not count. Make sure that your reviews cover the specific details of a theme and cover the topics described in the reviewing guidelines. Also, please don't put everything in bold. It hurts my eyes.
    Creativity-
    How well the theme role matches its derived source (adapted themes) or creates a unique lore (original themes).
    How creative the game messages, roles and sides names and overall flavour is.

    Cohesion-
    Overall consistency of elements throughout the theme;
    Avoiding conflicting or contradicting statements (2 Roles saying they are the Strongest) or concepts (Robot in Middle Ages) in the theme;
    How well the elements in the theme mesh together to create a strong bond rather than scattered and random characters;

    Craftsmanship (Balance, Tactics)-
    How fair the game is for all sides that spawn in any game size.
    Which advantages each side has, and how other sides can fight them.
    How much the theme allows players to change the game using their own skills, tactics or mind games.

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)-
    How easy is to learn the theme's roles, sides and rules specific to theme.
    Overall pace of the game (deaths, information, plot twists, etc)
    How easy is to follow what's happening during a game.

    Concept-
    Key roles and rules for the theme
    What makes the theme fun to play

    Running Total - 42/50
     
  34. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I added Philanthropist on small games (giving less coins/items, of course) in the hopes it can speed up the game a bit.

    I also wanted to know if you find better to have the /myrole text always listing all items that role can buy at all times (regardless of having enough coins or not) or if it's better to keep it the way it is currently (only show items the player has enough coins to buy).
     
  35. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    While I like how the /myrole text is currently, I can definitely see the use in providing the whole list (adds incentive to save up). I'd try having all the items in /myrole and see how people react.
     
  36. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    *crickets*

    Creativity-

    Class warfare. Literally. It's definitely a unique spin on a classic concept, and it offers the basis for a very interesting factional setup. A unique lore is presented, and for the most part it is believable. Rich people get lots of money for no reason, while Workers must laboriously type /work every night. Thieves don't create money, but steal it from others. They are all natural enemies. And they all have a natural motive that anyone can understand: money. And for some reason they decided to have a confrontation in some poor fellow's shop (well, he won't be poor soon).

    The items more or less make sense, at least in an abstract sense. Guns kill, Swords are more dramatic, Shields block bullets, Dresses are a reference to the Pretty Lady role, Lens to the Inspector, etc. The fact that Rich people have a wider assortment of items at their disposal is a neat feature. Overall there isn't anything that doesn't make sense, but they could be improved... maybe. I would say that the items are overly simplistic if anything, but I can't complain too much because the theme would be in danger of becoming too confusing if they were more complex. I would suggest more creative stuff (idk, like a Mirror which causes you to be Inspected as the role that Inspects you1) but I hesitate to suggest making this theme too convoluted, as the whole money system is already a lot to take in for players. At your discretion, I think it could be beneficial to add more items in the future, and for now I won't detract too much on the basis of simplicity.

    1: I also don't imagine this would be very fun to code.

    The messages are charmingly (sickeningly) capitalistic. Almost every message points to money as being the most important thing, as if slighting the importance of other factors (like, y'know, dying), which is a great feature for a theme based on money. For example:

    "killusermsg" : "*** Oh, you died. And to make things worse, your family is now fighting over the inheritance!",
    Illustrates the theme of capital very well. Even the drawmsg:

    Shop Owner: Wait, where did everyone go? If everyone dies like this, I will go out of business!

    Upholds this mentality. The help messages and win messages are also very good, generally. However, I will nitpick at some of the text.

    Shop Owner: 'Damn those Thieves! ~Players~ always steal me and get away with that!',

    Grammatically, it fits better, and it also rolls of the tongue better. That is too close to the clause it's referencing to function as a relative pronoun. It would work if it was something like: "~Players~ always steal from me! I can't believe they get away with that!", but otherwise it sounds awkward.

    It also might help to make the Philanthropists' help explain how they are interested in the fight. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense that they're just giving away free stuff. Perhaps it could explain that you are supporting the winning side for your own protection. This effectively plays out in games as it is, because often when the Philanthropist is discovered by someone, they can be blackmailed (e.g., give me a Sword or I'll expose and lynch you!). Which reminds me:
    If lynched, the first person to vote you will gain 3 coins each

    The each is a remainder from the first help which has the first and last person to vote gaining coins. It should be removed for small game Philanthropist.

    Overall, the flavor is strong, with my only main complaint being that the content of the actions are too simple. Because there are only 8 items and 4 roles, with 2 of those items being exclusive to Rich, there is room for expansion. But at the same time this theme might not benefit from overcomplexity.

    4/5

    Cohesion-

    Drawing on the above section, the roles interact very well. Workers work for money, Thieves steal but do not create money, and Rich people passively gain wealth. This opens up a lot of unique interactions. Thieves hurt their target while benefitting themselves, which means they outpace both Rich and Workers if they are not stealing from their teammates. However, Workers outpace everyone as long as they are not targeted. Furthermore, both roles are susceptible to stalling via Dresses, while Rich will always get money no matter what.

    These are interesting interactions. There is also no overlapping flavor, and each role is suited to their abilities with their faction. It could be possibly be improved by diversifying roles, but I already took a point off for simplicity and there's nothing strikingly wrong with the way it is.

    Even the individual actions also interact interestingly. For example, you can block a gunshot with just one Shield, which costs 1/5 of said Gun; however, the use of the shield has to be precise, since if you spend every turn buying a Shield you will quickly bankrupt yourself. Dresses allow you to subdue an enemy indefinitely and prevent them from using anything, and as every faction makes more than a Dress costs every role can make use of it at one point or another.

    5/5

    Craftsmanship (Balance, Tactics)-

    The game is fairly balanced all sizes, but there are a lot of factors to consider as the spawn changes. Statistically, Thieves will become weaker the larger the game gets due to the randomness of night 1 stealing. For example, Thieves have a 1/3 chance to teamsteal in 4p, but 2/5 in 6p. The larger the game gets, the more likely they are to hit a teammate. This isn't an issue so much once Rich are introduced, although the patter resumes: they have or 1/4 chance in 12p, 3/11 in 22p. It isn't as critical in larger games, but it's very noticeable in the difference between 4p and 6p. Teamstealing vs hurting opponents is a huge difference in small games, and it can lead to the game being decided by-and-large by n1 steals.

    The only factors that can affect balance are how much a role makes and the amount of money they start with. There is the added ability to buy extra items for Rich, but they don't factor in hugely I think.

    Let's look at 6p, assuming random steals:

    Workers get 4c*(90%) + 5c*(10%) - 3c*(60%) = 2.3 coins on average. Start with 3 coins.
    Thieves get 3c - 3c*(40%) = 1.8 coins on average. Start with 4 coins.

    This is an ideal setup. It's very balanced in theory, and I think in practice too.

    12p:

    Workers get 4c*(90%) + 5c*(10%) - 3c*(4/11) = 3 coins on average. Average start money is 3.5.
    Thieves get 3c - 3c*(3/11) = 2.18 coins on average. Average start money is 4.5.
    Rich get 3c - 3c*(4/11) = 1.91 coins on average. Average start money is 12.

    This is less balanced. The gap in average income between Workers and Thieves is pretty big. Much smaller is the gap between Rich and Thieves. Despite this, the gap in starting money is largest between Thieves and Rich. This seems off, because the Rich get barely less money per turn with random steals, and also start with way more money. This can be counteracted by the fact that Steals will be less random starting n2 or n3, but there is still an argument for buffing Thieves here.

    Thieves are also hurt whenever Philanthropist spawns, simply because they waste a turn of getting money if they hit them.

    I sort of went over the advantages of each side and such above, so I'll just re-iterate. Workers create money for themselves, Thieves hurt their targets while running away with money, and Rich are not deterred by PLs. It's a solid basis for gameplay.

    As for in-depth gameplay, I think some strategies are too dominating. Dresses are fairly cheap and incredibly effective in subduing a target, and there is not much in the way of countering this. I don't think increasing the price of Dresses would help (this would just hurt Thieves and Rich a lot actually, since they wouldn't be able to stall someone while making money), but introducing a counter-strategy would be conducive to strategic gameplay. I also think Badges should be slightly more expensive. Guns are not very appealing when you can increase your vote count for the rest of the game for equal price - the badge effectively gets you a kill by voting someone 1v1, and also protects you from lynches in the future - also Badges have priority because the lynch happens before the next night - also Guns can be blocked by Shields, while Badges can only be blocked by Badges.

    Edit: a counter-strategy for Dress could be something like a Cloak which Safeguards, so as to allow someone with at least 1 coin to break away from a chain of endless PLs. Probably should block Inspect/Distract/Poison, but not /Steal.

    The balance could use tweaking, and some of the dominant strategies deter creative gameplay. However, there are no outstanding problems. At the very least, some prices and starting wealth could be tweaked.

    3/5

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)-

    This theme isn't as 'complicated' as it unique. Once you understand the basic concepts and how the money system works, the rules come along very quickly. Most of the recommendations I've made involve making it more complicated, so it wouldn't make very much sense for me to take off point for complicatedness here. The items are easy to learn, and the details of the prices and abilities are always a few keystrokes away. Other than that, there are only 4 roles to remember, so there shouldn't be any trouble here. There's nothing confusing about the events of the game as far as I can tell either.

    The pace is the only concern I have, and I agree with Windblown. It is hard to get find your teammates, and almost impossible to confirm yourself to a teammate. Lenses and Speakers spread information, but they both have their faults. Lenses take until the night after they are purchased to be useful, and if they are misused on someone that died, for instance, it takes another 2 nights to get information. Speakers just cause factionalization and group voting, making too much information. Ultimately, it is more appealing for many players simply to stock on Badges and have a vote war, and basically rand. This isn't game-breakingly bad, but it could possibly be improved by creating more "soft" information. There is some soft information (like 'someone buying a Sword n1 is probably a Rich') but it is usually not applicable. The most applicable soft information is steals - thieves can confirm who they are based on who they stole. It's generally hard to read anyone's role based on their abilities and interactions with other players. I suppose I'm going back to gameplay on this subject, but it is somewhat lacking in terms of Course as well because finding information is dominated by an arguably better strategy of 'every player for themselves'.

    On the plus side, the pace is prone to exciting twists, especially in games with Philanthropists. There won't be many games repeated step-by-step, creating lots of a variety, which is healthy for pace.

    4/5

    Concept-

    There is honestly not much to say on the negative for this section. This is a fun theme. Everyone can buy their preferred items and decide their own game plan. Workers, Thieves, and Rich each have several strategies they can use based on they choose to purchase. Even being Philanthropist and playing the silent conspirator is fun. I can't say that the gameplay is perfect, and there are certainly ways that strategies can be diversified or improved. However, the wide variety of elements at each players' disposal affords many an interesting scenario to be created. The resource-based approach to factional mafia is extremely appealing, and nice change of pace from the status quo.

    5/5

    Total: 21/25
    Running Total - 63/75
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  37. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I have been awake until so late that's already getting early here, so I will only comment a few things now and leave the rest for later.
    1. Text stuff will be fixed, obviously.
    2. I don't personally find Dress tactics to be that strong. I recall being able to exert a great amount of control in some games by buying 2 Lens N1, while Dress barely has helped me so far. It could be that I suck at being a lady, but I can only imagine those tactics being that strong on really small games, since on larger games you would need to slow down yourself for too long while other players can still do their thing.
    3. There are a few reasons Riches begin with so much more money than the rest, but the main one is: if they get locked in a 1vs1 fight against a Thief, they wouldn't be able to outclass them. Another relevant thing is that they can't use the money at the same turn they gain it, so they are even more vulnerable to being stolen.

    EDIT: Now that I'm more awake, let's answer more of those comments:

    Oh god, that would make the code go from 70k lines to over 120k :x
    More items could come in the future though, but I'd rather keep them as simple as possible so the focus is still the money system.
    BTW, you said there are "only" 8 items, but I actually think that's already a lot. Just think how long the "You can buy the following items" line already is :x

    A fair suggestion. I will try something about it.
    EDIT: Here what I came up with. A bit long, but it should work. Wording could be improved.
    "help": "You are into charity, so you can give 1 item to another player every night with /sword, /gun, /lens, /dress or /shield. You can also give 2 coins to another player with /donate [name]. If lynched, the first and last person to vote you will gain 5 coins each, so be careful with greedy players in case you are revealed! You believe all sides are victims of this harsh capitalist system, so you are helping them all and therefore can win with anyone.",

    There's still the pending idea of having normal and weak versions of each role (e.g.: Worker gains 2 coins, Hard Worker gains 4), although I think those would fit better a Village vs Mafia format.

    I could make Thieves steal normally from Philanthropist, possibly with some side effect, like being immune to Steals for the next turn so it won't be an unlimited source of money. Or I could not have that side effect, since that would mean a Thief would be able to get money easily, but would be unable to hurt other teams by stealing them.

    By the way, another thing that can hold back Thieves is that if their target has little to no money, they will not be able to use their stealing ability to the fullest, while Workers and Rich People don't need to care about who got the money, so maybe Thieves really need a small buff on some sizes.

    Yeah, Badges do seem to be a crowd's favorite. Will consider increasing the price by 1 coin (more than that would be overkill).
    As for counter-acting Dress, I'd rather simply have Shield blocking Distract and Kill, but nothing else. It's better than introducing a new defensive item that you never know when it actually made the difference.

    More soft information sounds like a good idea. I will think some stuff for that, and I also accept more suggestions on this aspect. The theme really do lack some stuff to allow players reading each other's behaviour.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  38. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    For soft information, you could make an item that inspects how many coins a target has. Though even at 1 coin it probably won't be used that much since Lens is barely more and is also more concrete. Then again it could be more helpful to know where the target is at in terms of wealth in addition to gaining a hint about their role. It would at least allow the option of making gameplay more diverse.

    The Mirror item is an extreme example of an item you could add. But it could help nerf Lens. Just for fun, I thought about how it might be added without exploding the code. It would be easy if addCharges worked for defensive modes, but I don't think it does. Then you could just add evadeCharges and have the evade message say "~Target~ is the ~Side~" instead of "~Target~ is the ~TargetSide~". Yeah, when it comes down to it you'd have to do so many complicated dummy messages with different conditions for when they respond that would be easier just to make a duplicate of every role, which is saying something. Not a good idea.

    I'll see if I can find any logs of Dress dominating too much. I know it works in theory, and I've had games where it worked as well. Here's the theory:
    A Thief starting with 4 coins can get 7 by stealing, thereby buying a Lens and going back to 4. The next night they can Inspect someone, and even if they're stolen by another Thief either night they'll have enough money to buy a Dress that night. At that point, they can Steal+PL a Worker until they're completely bankrupt, while making 1 coin per turn. Once the target is bankrupt the Thief can simply alternate between PLing/Stealing to keep them out of the game, which means they can spend more resources getting a Badge or Lens to focus on other targets. The only way the Worker can break out of this is by having more vote power and voting off the Thief, and it will be impossible for the Worker to buy a Badge once the stalling has begun. If they spent their money on a Gun or Shield, it's pretty much wasted since they can't do anything to break the stall. Of course there are other factors going on which might interrupt the stall, like teamstealing or a random Worker with a Sword, but especially in a small games like 4-8p the ability to completely subdue someone creates a huge advantage.
    It would be useful to have even a 1 coin item just for blocking PLs so you can escape these kinds of stalls.

    Making Shield block Dress would solve the Dress spam problem, but it would also make Shields too valuable imo. You would be immune to basically anything during the night if you had a Shield. I think it's better if you can get a guaranteed kill on someone with Dress+Gun, and giving it a priority Safeguard+Protect would encourage Shield+Badge stacking (which is already done too much). A Safeguard item would still be very useful, especially for Workers who have the lowest priority on Distract.

    I do think gameplay would benefit from pushing Badge up to 6 as well. There's almost no reason to buy a Gun which can be PL'd or Protected against, while the Badge is reusable and also offers defense.
     
  39. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Those kind of "items so weak people wouldn't buy even if it costed 1 coin" can be balanced by having them coming in bulk quantities (1 coin for 3 of those items to inspect money, for example), so these suggestions are still valid.

    The idea is to have Shield only blocking Kill and Distracts, so poison, steal and inspect would still work normally, so you still would be vulnerable to lots of stuff. Losing the ability to distract + kill for a certain death could indeed be an issue, but I still don't think a new item focused on safeguard would make people change the way they play it at all.
     
  40. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

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    Here's that game log. Yes I did find an error.

    (15:40:46) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:40:46) Times Up! :
    (15:40:46) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (15:40:46) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:40:46) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 3 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:40:46) ±Game: You have 4 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 9 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 5 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:40:46) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:40:46) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:40:46) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:40:46) ±Time: Night 1
    (15:40:46) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (15:40:46) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:40:53) Analytic: ok
    (15:40:55) Miki Sayaka: time to abuse dress
    (15:40:56) Analytic: who wants a gun
    (15:41:00) ±Game: You have chosen to steal Nilon!
    (15:41:01) Laughing Jack: meeeee
    (15:41:02) ±Game: You have chosen to lens Miki Sayaka!
    (15:41:04) Analytic: if not I will give miki a dress
    (15:41:07) Analytic: for being kawaii
    (15:41:09) Laughing Jack: MEEE
    (15:41:10) Laughing Jack: Lol
    (15:41:22) Miki Sayaka: .
    (15:41:26) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:41:26) Times Up! :
    (15:41:26) ±Game: You stole 3 coins from Nilon!
    (15:41:26) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Lens (can /inspect during the night)! I see you still have 4 coins!
    (15:41:26) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating a Dress to Miki Sayaka!
    (15:41:26) No one died! :
    (15:41:26) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:41:26) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 3 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:41:26) ±Game: You have 4 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 9 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 5 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:41:26) ±Charges left: 1x Inspect, 1x Distract
    (15:41:26) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:41:26) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:41:26) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:41:26) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:41:26) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (15:41:26) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:41:26) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:41:31) Analytic: >double steal
    (15:41:34) Laughing Jack: r00d
    (15:41:35) Miki Sayaka: wow you make my life too easy
    (15:41:42) Analytic: workers
    (15:41:45) Angel of Chaos joined the channel.

    (15:41:46) Analytic: have the advantage now!
    (15:41:56) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:41:56) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:41:56) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:41:56) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:41:56) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (15:41:56) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:41:56) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:41:56) Miki Sayaka: analytic you were double-stolen?
    (15:42:03) Analytic: y
    (15:42:06) Miki Sayaka: then you must be worker
    (15:42:10) Analytic: you mean
    (15:42:11) Laughing Jack: ooooo
    (15:42:12) Analytic: philan
    (15:42:14) Analytic: but
    (15:42:19) Miki Sayaka: hmm
    (15:42:21) Analytic: vote me for free coins right?
    (15:42:24) ±Shop Owner: Miki Sayaka wants Laughing Jack's money!
    (15:42:30) ±Shop Owner: Laughing Jack wants Miki Sayaka's money!
    (15:42:31) ±Shop Owner: RiceKirby wants Miki Sayaka's money!
    (15:42:33) Miki Sayaka: help
    (15:42:34) ±Shop Owner: Analytic wants Laughing Jack's money!
    (15:42:34) Laughing Jack: Omg them typoes
    (15:42:36) Miki Sayaka: 9_9
    (15:42:38) Analytic: ties are good
    (15:42:40) Laughing Jack: ^
    (15:42:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:42:41) Times Up! :
    (15:42:41) No one was voted off!:
    (15:42:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:42:41) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:42:41) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:42:41) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:42:41) ±Time: Night 2
    (15:42:41) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:42:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:42:41) Miki Sayaka: inb4 badge
    (15:42:44) Laughing Jack: Yay
    (15:42:45) Miki Sayaka: inafter*
    (15:42:49) Analytic:Miki Sayaka are you thief
    (15:42:52) Miki Sayaka: n
    (15:42:54) Miki Sayaka: i am pl
    (15:42:55) Analytic: k
    (15:42:58) Laughing Jack: These commands give the most hilarious game messages :P
    (15:42:58) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect RiceKirby!
    (15:43:01) ±Game: You have chosen to distract RiceKirby!
    (15:43:04) ±Game: You have chosen to steal Nilon!
    (15:43:08) ±Game: You have chosen to dress Miki Sayaka!
    (15:43:10) ±Game: You have chosen to shield Miki Sayaka!
    (15:43:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:43:11) Times Up! :
    (15:43:11) ±Game: You used a Dress! You still have 0 left!
    (15:43:11) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating 1 Coins to Nilon!
    (15:43:11) ±Game: You stole 2 coins from Nilon!
    (15:43:11) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Dress (can /distract during the night)! I see you still have 4 coins!
    (15:43:11) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Shield (can /protect during the night)! I see you still have 3 coins!
    (15:43:11) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating a Gun to Miki Sayaka!
    (15:43:11) No one died! :Wait, where's the Inspect result?
    (15:43:11) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:43:11) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 3 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:43:11) ±Game: You have 3 coins. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 9 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 5 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:43:11) ±Charges left: 1x Kill, 1x Inspect, 1x Distract, 1x Protect
    (15:43:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:43:11) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:43:11) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:43:11) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:43:11) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (15:43:11) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:43:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:43:17) Miki Sayaka: wtf
    (15:43:31) Miki Sayaka: I found an error ?
    (15:43:32) RiceKirby: Wow someone came to me
    (15:43:36) Laughing Jack: ooo
    (15:43:40) Analytic: wat's that error
    (15:43:41) Laughing Jack: Error?
    (15:43:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:43:41) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:43:41) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:43:41) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:43:41) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (15:43:41) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:43:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:43:58) Nilon: uhoh, error
    (15:44:00) Miki Sayaka: .
    (15:44:02) RiceKirby: Are you sure the error is not your brain?
    (15:44:03) RiceKirby: !
    (15:44:06) [OG]Julio left the channel.

    (15:44:06) Miki Sayaka: o:
    (15:44:07) Analytic: !
    (15:44:07) Nilon: !
    (15:44:08) Laughing Jack: Lmao
    (15:44:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:11) Times Up! :
    (15:44:11) No one was voted off!:
    (15:44:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:11) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:44:11) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:44:11) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:44:11) ±Time: Night 3
    (15:44:11) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:44:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:16) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect RiceKirby!
    (15:44:18) ±Game: You have chosen to dress Miki Sayaka!
    (15:44:21) ±Game: You have chosen to distract RiceKirby!
    (15:44:23) Analytic: I am
    (15:44:27) Analytic: hoping Miki Sayaka didn't rob me n1
    (15:44:28) ±Game: You have chosen to steal Nilon!
    (15:44:32) ±Game: You have chosen to protect Miki Sayaka!
    (15:44:33) Analytic: and giving free stuff >.<
    (15:44:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:41) Times Up! :
    (15:44:41) ±Game: You used a Dress! You still have 0 left!
    (15:44:41) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating 1 Coins to RiceKirby!
    (15:44:41) ±Game: Your target (Nilon) had no coins to steal!
    (15:44:41) ±Shop Owner: Here's your Dress (can /distract during the night)! I see you still have 1 coin!
    (15:44:41) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating a Dress to Miki Sayaka!
    (15:44:41) No one died! : ._.
    (15:44:41) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:44:41) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 3 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:44:41) ±Game: You have 1 coin. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 9 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 5 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:44:41) ±Charges left: 1x Kill, 1x Inspect, 2x Distract, 1x Protect
    (15:44:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:41) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:44:41) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:44:41) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:44:41) ±Time: Day 3 (Standby)
    (15:44:41) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:44:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:44:46) Miki Sayaka: lol
    (15:44:50) Laughing Jack: whoisthief
    (15:44:54) Laughing Jack: o-o
    (15:44:55) Analytic: someone should bye lens
    (15:44:57) RiceKirby: Wow Philanthropist
    (15:44:57) Miki Sayaka: tf is this
    (15:45:00) Laughing Jack: tf?
    (15:45:05) Major Mango left the channel.

    (15:45:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:45:11) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:45:11) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:45:11) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:45:11) ±Time: Day 3 (Voting)
    (15:45:11) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:45:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:45:13) Nilon: The frienf
    (15:45:13) Analytic: it is wtf without w
    (15:45:16) Miki Sayaka: .
    (15:45:18) Laughing Jack: I know
    (15:45:18) Laughing Jack: xD
    (15:45:19) Zomboy joined the channel.

    (15:45:19) Jumpeon joined the channel.

    (15:45:20) Jumpeon left the channel.

    (15:45:24) Jumpeon joined the channel.

    (15:45:31) Analytic:Miki Sayaka should lead rand y/y
    (15:45:31) Miki Sayaka: .
    (15:45:35) RiceKirby: y
    (15:45:36) Nilon: Y
    (15:45:38) Miki Sayaka: imo we should
    (15:45:40) Laughing Jack: Not me :P youneedmyface
    (15:45:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:45:41) Times Up! :
    (15:45:41) No one was voted off!:
    (15:45:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:45:41) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:45:41) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:45:41) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:45:41) ±Time: Night 4
    (15:45:41) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:45:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:45:41) Miki Sayaka: wait for inspector to claim
    (15:45:43) Laughing Jack: myface
    (15:45:44) Laughing Jack: o
    (15:45:44) Nilon: y not?
    (15:45:45) ±Game: You have chosen to distract RiceKirby!
    (15:45:45) ±Game: Your target(s) are RiceKirby!
    (15:45:48) ±Game: You have chosen to distract Nilon!
    (15:45:48) ±Game: Your target(s) are RiceKirby, Nilon!
    (15:45:53) Miki Sayaka: Phila stop helping me
    (15:45:54) Analytic: Nilon you better settle this by tomorrow
    (15:45:55) ±Game: You have chosen to inspect RiceKirby!

    (15:45:56) ±Game: You have chosen to dress Miki Sayaka!
    (15:46:00) ±Game: You have chosen to steal RiceKirby!
    (15:46:02) xXLucasXx left the channel.

    (15:46:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:46:11) Times Up! :
    (15:46:11) ±Game: You used a Dress! You still have 0 left!
    (15:46:11) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating 1 Coins to Nilon!
    (15:46:11) ±Game: Your target (RiceKirby) had no coins to steal!
    (15:46:11) ±Shop Owner: You don't have enough coins to buy a Dress!
    (15:46:11) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating a Lens to Nilon!
    (15:46:11) ±Game: You used a Lens! You still have 0 left!
    (15:46:11) ±Info: RiceKirby is sided with the Hard Workers!!

    (15:46:11) No one died! :
    (15:46:11) ±Game: You are a Thief!
    (15:46:11) ±Game: Honesty can go to hell, you need money and you need it fast! Every night, you can type /steal to steal up to 3 Coins from another player. You can buy items which give you limited access to other actions (type /gun to buy a Gun, /shield to buy a Shield, etc).
    (15:46:11) ±Game: You have 1 coin. Items you can buy: Sword (daykill, 9 coins), Badge (extra vote, 5 coins), Gun (nightkill, 5 coins), Lens (inspect, 3 coins), Dress (distract, 2 coins), Shield (protect, 1 coin).
    (15:46:11) ±Charges left: 1x Kill, 1x Protect
    (15:46:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:46:11) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:46:11) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:46:11) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:46:11) ±Time: Day 4 (Standby)
    (15:46:11) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:46:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:46:11) ±CommandBot: The command badge doesn't exist
    (15:46:32) RiceKirby: Oh look, someone tried to steal me
    (15:46:37) Jumpeon left the channel.

    (15:46:40) Analytic: but you had no coins
    (15:46:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:46:41) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:46:41) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:46:41) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:46:41) ±Time: Day 4 (Voting)
    (15:46:41) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:46:41) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:46:46) Miki Sayaka: you must be phila?
    (15:46:53) RiceKirby: Of course
    (15:46:53) Analytic: ok I want 3 coins
    (15:46:56) RiceKirby: I gave myself a coin
    (15:46:56) Analytic: .vote RiceKirby
    (15:46:59) Nilon: Playing on a phone suckd
    (15:47:01) Miki Sayaka: seems legi
    (15:47:02) Laughing Jack: ^
    (15:47:02) Miki Sayaka: t
    (15:47:04) Laughing Jack: arrow block
    (15:47:05) meeps left the channel.

    (15:47:05) Laughing Jack: mofo
    (15:47:06) Laughing Jack: :c
    (15:47:07) ±Shop Owner: RiceKirby wants Miki Sayaka's money!
    (15:47:10) ±Shop Owner: Miki Sayaka wants RiceKirby's money!
    (15:47:12) Miki Sayaka: help
    (15:47:14) Miki Sayaka: it's the phila
    (15:47:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:18) Times Up! :
    (15:47:18) No one was voted off!:
    (15:47:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:18) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:47:18) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Miki Sayaka, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:47:18) ±Current Team: Thief, Thief
    (15:47:18) ±Time: Night 5
    (15:47:18) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:47:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:19) RiceKirby: Yes I am
    (15:47:22) ±Game: You have chosen to kill RiceKirby!
    (15:47:28) [OG]Julio joined the channel.

    (15:47:28) Analytic: Nilon use the lens now
    (15:47:28) ±Game: You have chosen to steal Nilon!
    (15:47:29) ±Game: You have chosen to dress Miki Sayaka!
    (15:47:34) ±Dratini: Johan696 was mysteriously kicked by Hoppie! [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
    (15:47:37) Laughing Jack: hoppie
    (15:47:38) ±Game: You have chosen to protect Miki Sayaka!
    (15:47:40) Laughing Jack: Lol
    (15:47:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:48) Times Up! :
    (15:47:48) ±Game: The Worker came to you last night! You were too busy being distracted!
    (15:47:48) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating 1 Coins to RiceKirby!
    (15:47:48) ±Shop Owner: You don't have enough coins to buy a Dress!
    (15:47:48) ±Game: The Philanthropist is donating a Shield to Laughing Jack!
    (15:47:48) *** Oh, you died. And to make things worse, your family is now fighting over the inheritance!
    (15:47:48) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named Miki Sayaka died recently! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:47:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:48) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:47:48) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:47:48) ±Time: Day 5 (Standby)
    (15:47:48) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (15:47:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:47:56) Miki Sayaka: [Dead] gdi
    (15:47:57) Analytic: ):
    (15:47:58) Miki Sayaka: [Dead] I got
    (15:48:01) Laughing Jack: othanx:D
    (15:48:02) Miki Sayaka: [Dead] pl+killed
    (15:48:03) RiceKirby: Wow something finally happened
    (15:48:05) Analytic: I did get robbed
    (15:48:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:48:18) ±Current Roles: Philanthropist, Thief, Worker, Worker.
    (15:48:18) ±Current Players: Analytic, Laughing Jack, Nilon, RiceKirby.
    (15:48:18) ±Time: Day 5 (Voting)
    (15:48:18) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (15:48:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:48:22) RiceKirby: Analytic, are you the Worker?
    (15:48:35) ±Shop Owner: Laughing Jack wants Nilon's money!
    (15:48:35) Analytic: obviously
    (15:48:44) ±Shop Owner: RiceKirby wants Nilon's money!
    (15:48:44) [OG]Julio left the channel.

    (15:48:48) Miki Sayaka: .
    (15:48:48) Angel of Chaos left the channel.

    (15:49:01) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:49:01) Times Up! :
    (15:49:01) ±Shop Owner: I heard that a Thief named Nilon didn't pay 4 invoice(s) and got lynched! And they had no life insurance!
    (15:49:01) ±Shop Owner: 'I am a Hard Worker myself, so I can sympathize with people like RiceKirby, Laughing Jack and Analytic, who win only with honest methods!'
    (15:49:01) ***************************************************************************************
    (15:49:04) RiceKirby: PL'd for 3 nights
    (15:49:10) ±Dratini: beat rriiver butt was mysteriously kicked by RedJoker25! [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
    (15:49:10) Laughing Jack: I had Badge and sword xP
    (15:49:10) Analytic: too kawaii 4u

    (15:49:12) *** ::: ::: Log for Shop-themed mafia game ::: ::: ***
    (15:49:12) Players: RiceKirby (Worker), Nilon (Thief), Laughing Jack (Worker), Analytic (Philanthropist), Miki Sayaka (Thief)
    (15:49:12) *** NIGHT PHASE 1 ***
    (15:49:12) RiceKirby used: /work RiceKirby, /gun RiceKirby, /lens RiceKirby, /dress RiceKirby, /sword RiceKirby
    (15:49:12) Laughing Jack used: /work Laughing Jack
    (15:49:12) Miki Sayaka used: /steal Nilon, /lens Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:12) Nilon used: /steal Analytic, /sword Nilon
    (15:49:12) Analytic used: /dress Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:12) *** STANDBY PHASE 1 ***
    (15:49:12) *** VOTING PHASE 1 ***
    (15:49:12) Miki Sayaka used: /vote Laughing Jack
    (15:49:12) Laughing Jack used: /vote Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:12) RiceKirby used: /vote Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:12) Analytic used: /vote Laughing Jack
    (15:49:12) Lynched: No one
    (15:49:12) *** NIGHT PHASE 2 ***
    (15:49:12) Laughing Jack used: /work Laughing Jack
    (15:49:12) RiceKirby used: /distract Miki Sayaka, /kill Miki Sayaka, /work RiceKirby, /badge RiceKirby, /gun RiceKirby, /dress RiceKirby
    (15:49:12) Nilon used: /kill Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:17) Miki Sayaka used: /inspect RiceKirby, /distract RiceKirby, /steal Nilon, /dress Miki Sayaka, /shield Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:17) Analytic used: /gun Miki Sayaka, /donate Nilon
    (15:49:17) *** STANDBY PHASE 2 ***
    (15:49:17) *** VOTING PHASE 2 ***
    (15:49:17) Lynched: No one
    (15:49:17) *** NIGHT PHASE 3 ***
    (15:49:17) Laughing Jack used: /sword Laughing Jack
    (15:49:17) RiceKirby used: /distract Miki Sayaka, /kill Miki Sayaka, /work RiceKirby, /gun RiceKirby, /badge RiceKirby, /dress RiceKirby, /shield RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) Miki Sayaka used: /inspect RiceKirby, /dress Miki Sayaka, /distract RiceKirby, /steal Nilon, /protect Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:17) Analytic used: /dress Miki Sayaka, /donate RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) *** STANDBY PHASE 3 ***
    (15:49:17) *** VOTING PHASE 3 ***
    (15:49:17) Lynched: No one
    (15:49:17) *** NIGHT PHASE 4 ***
    (15:49:17) Miki Sayaka used: /distract RiceKirby, /distract Nilon, /inspect RiceKirby, /dress Miki Sayaka, /steal RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) RiceKirby used: /kill Miki Sayaka, /distract Miki Sayaka, /protect RiceKirby, /work RiceKirby, /badge RiceKirby, /gun RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) Laughing Jack used: /work Laughing Jack
    (15:49:17) Analytic used: /lens Nilon, /donate Nilon
    (15:49:17) *** STANDBY PHASE 4 ***
    (15:49:17) *** VOTING PHASE 4 ***
    (15:49:17) RiceKirby used: /vote Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:17) Miki Sayaka used: /vote RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) Lynched: No one
    (15:49:17) *** NIGHT PHASE 5 ***
    (15:49:17) Miki Sayaka used: /kill RiceKirby, /steal Nilon, /dress Miki Sayaka, /protect Miki Sayaka
    (15:49:17) RiceKirby used: /distract Miki Sayaka, /kill Miki Sayaka, /protect RiceKirby, /work RiceKirby, /badge RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) Laughing Jack used: /badge Laughing Jack
    (15:49:17) Analytic used: /shield Laughing Jack, /donate RiceKirby
    (15:49:17) *** STANDBY PHASE 5 ***
    (15:49:17) *** VOTING PHASE 5 ***
    (15:49:17) Laughing Jack used: /vote Nilon
    (15:49:17) RiceKirby used: /vote Nilon
    (15:49:17) Lynched: Nilon (Thief)
    (15:49:17) *** GAME END ***
    (15:49:17) Winners: Hard Workers (RiceKirby, Laughing Jack and Analytic)

    So, I couldn't Inspect while I was being donated stuff. The Inspect worked fine when I was not donated.

    The PL stall did fall through because I ended up PLing and Stealing my teammate for the entire game ('cause my lens wasn't working). If I had just 1 more coin to buy that dress night 4 it would have worked! I could have also saved the Dress instead of using both night 4.