Mario

Discussion in 'Review' started by Micaiah, Jul 8, 2014.

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  1. Micaiah

    Micaiah Bop it

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    [​IMG]


    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SkySentinel/wat/master/Mario

    Hi this is a Mario theme (obviously) made by Sky Sentinel and I. It features many Mario characters from different series of games. Anyways, this theme is a simple one seeing as it was mostly made for me to learn how to code a bit.
    Roles

    Village

    Toad

    Just a villager that can be converted by Kamek into a Goomba

    Mario

    The main character of the games. We decided to give him a daykill and make him immune to daykills

    Luigi

    Luigi can kill people during the night using /gust. He is also immune to kills from the ghost mafia since in Luigi's Mansion he hunts them down with the poltergust.

    Donkey Kong


    Can protect one person during the night. Can evade 10% of nightkills

    MC Ballyhoo

    [​IMG]
    Can expose one person during the day, will be revealed. Can also inspect one person during the night once a game, will be broadcasted to everybody in the game.

    Rosalina

    Can distract 1 person during the night.

    Yoshi

    Has a vote of 3

    Starlow

    [​IMG]

    She can hax all nightkills except Luigi's gust

    Goombario

    Can tattle one person during the night to find out what actions they have (i.e User has no actions! or User can Distract!)

    Peach

    She can send a letter to one person during the night to reveal herself to them.

    Boomer

    [​IMG]

    Kills anybody that kills them (boom)

    Birdo

    Has a vote of -3

    Toadette

    She is a miller that thinks she is Toad

    Geno

    [​IMG]

    Can watch one person during the night, including himself

    Mafia Side One: Beanbean Kingdom

    Fawful

    [​IMG]

    I HAVE FURY! Can daykill everyday without being revealed. I HAVE CHORTLES!

    Popple

    [​IMG]

    Can kill during the night. Gets hax on Kill, Gust, Distract, and Protect.

    Cackletta

    [​IMG]

    Can kill during the night. Has a vote of 2. Every 2 nights, she gets stronger, gaining +1 votes until it caps out at +5.

    Mafia Side Two: Bowser's Castle

    Goomba

    Only appears when Kamek converts a Toad. Can shield a teammate during the night. Vote counts as -1

    Kamek


    Can kill one person during the night. Can transform a Toad into a Goomba. Can protect one person during the night.

    Bowser Jr.

    Can kill one person during the night. Can /toad, /mario, /peach, or /goomba to be inspected as those roles.

    Bowser

    Can kill one person during the night. Can kill a second person every two nights. If all of team dies he wins with Beanbean Kingdom, Ghosts, and Wicked Bros.

    Mafia Side Three: Glitz Pit

    Armored Harriers

    Can kill 1 person during the night. Immune to all kills. Vote of 0

    RAWK HAWK

    Can daykill once during the game, will be revealed. Has a vote of 100.


    Mafia Side Four: Wicked Bros.

    Wario


    Can kill one person during the night. Can waft (distract + poison) one person during the night.

    Waluigi


    Can kill one person during the night (cant be haxed). Can guard one person from Distracts, Kills, Gust, and Tattle.

    Ashley

    [​IMG]
    She can kill one person during the night. She can also shrink somebody else during the night to kill them, but this works only 40% of the time. Vote of two.

    Mafia Side Five: Ghost Mafia

    Boo

    Can kill during the night, pierces protect. Automatically dies when distracted

    The Brain

    [​IMG]
    Can kill during the night, pierces protect. Can also inspect one person during the night.

    Ok those are all of the roles in our theme. Now onto the spawn and priority

    List 1 (4~7 players):
    1. Toad (toad)
    2. Toad (toad)
    3. Geno (geno)
    4. Boo (boo)
    5. Toad (toad)
    6. Toad (toad)
    7. Boo (boo)

    List 2 (8~13 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Donkey Kong (kong)
    3. Peach (peach)
    4. Toad (toad)
    5. Geno (geno)
    6. Popple (popple)
    7. Boo (boo)
    8. Toad (toad)
    9. The Brain (brain)
    10. Toad (toad)
    11. Rosalina (rosalina)
    12. Cackletta (cackletta)
    13. Birdo (birdo)

    List 3 (14~19 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Donkey Kong (kong)
    3. Peach (peach)
    4. Toad (toad)
    5. Goombario (goombario)
    6. Popple (popple)
    7. Boo (boo)
    8. Toad (toad)
    9. The Brain (brain)
    10. Toadette (toadette)
    11. Rosalina (rosalina)
    12. Cackletta (cackletta)
    13. Birdo (birdo)
    14. Boo (boo)
    15. Toad (toad)
    16. Toad (toad)
    17. Kamek (kamek)
    18. Bowser (bowser)
    19. Luigi (luigi)

    List 4 (20~28 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Donkey Kong (kong)
    3. Peach (peach)
    4. Toad (toad)
    5. Goombario (goombario)
    6. Fawful (fawful)
    7. Boo (boo)
    8. Wario (wario)
    9. The Brain (brain)
    10. Toadette (toadette)
    11. Rosalina (rosalina)
    12. Cackletta (cackletta)
    13. Birdo (birdo)
    14. Boo (boo)
    15. Toad (toad)
    16. MC Ballyhoo (ballyhoo)
    17. Kamek (kamek)
    18. Bowser (bowser)
    19. Luigi (luigi)
    20. Waluigi (waluigi)
    21. Boo (boo)
    22. Puni Elder (elder)
    23. Bowser Jr. (bowserjrtoad)
    24. Ashley (ashley)
    25. Popple (popple)
    26. Toad (toad)
    27. Toadette (toadette)
    28. Boo (boo)

    List 5 (29~40 players):
    1. Mario (mario)
    2. Donkey Kong (kong)
    3. Peach (peach)
    4. Toad (toad)
    5. Goombario (goombario)
    6. Popple (popple)
    7. Boo (boo)
    8. Wario (wario)
    9. The Brain (brain)
    10. Toadette (toadette)
    11. Rosalina (rosalina)
    12. Cackletta (cackletta)
    13. Birdo (birdo)
    14. Boo (boo)
    15. Toad (toad)
    16. MC Ballyhoo (ballyhoo)
    17. Kamek (kamek)
    18. Bowser (bowser)
    19. Luigi (luigi)
    20. Waluigi (waluigi)
    21. Boo (boo)
    22. Puni Elder (elder)
    23. Bowser Jr. (bowserjrtoad)
    24. Ashley (ashley)
    25. Fawful (fawful)
    26. Armored Harrier (adonis)
    27. Armored Harrier (adonis)
    28. Rawk Hawk (RAWK)
    29. Toad (toad)
    30. Starlow (starlow)
    31. Boomer (boomer)
    32. Boo (boo)
    33. Toad (toad)
    34. Toadette (toadette)
    35. The Brain (brain)
    36. Toad (toad)
    37. Geno (geno)
    38. Toadette (toadette)
    39. Goomba (goomba)
    40. Toad (toad)

    [0] Waluigi (Guard)
    [1] Goomba (Shield)
    [2] Wario (Waft)
    [3] Rosalina (Distract)
    [9] Kamek (Protect)
    [10] Donkey Kong (Protect)
    [11] Bowser (Kill2)
    [12] Beanbean Kingdom (Kill)
    [14] Bowser's Castle (Kill)
    [15] Armored Harrier (Kill)
    [16] Wicked Bros. (Kill)
    [18] Ashley (Shrink)
    [18] Luigi (Gust)
    [19] Ghosts (Kill)
    [25] Peach (Write)
    [30] Goombario (Tattle)
    [31] Kamek (Transform)
    [32] The Brain (Inspect)
    [33] MC Ballyhoo (Inspect)
    [40] Bowser Jr. (Mask)
    [99] Geno (Watch)

    I also want to say that I totally didn't steal format from AOT

    Ok well this is our theme, have fun reviewing :]
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  2. Roild

    Roild Member

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    The pictures.... They are real. x_x
     
  3. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    The code also has a lot of placeholder roles which were made so it was easier for us to find sides and group the sides together, they're all hidden properly though
     
  4. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    I don't get why all those people who makes Mario themes insists on having Donkey Kong. It's been several years since Donkey Kong got its own universe and only appear on Mario Kart/Party games. If you want a BG, put freaking Yoshi on its place.
     
  5. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    i don't see how that matters at all, this is clearly a general Mario theme.
     
  6. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Keeping Donkey Kong is a thing (IMO he's not really necessary in any Mario theme unless it was Mario Kart/Party), but why is DK in while Yoshi is not?
     
  7. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    I'm sure we could find a role for Yoshi somewhere.

    I just want to outline how the spawn works:
    It's set up kind of like movies, with most mafias coming in all at once (few exceptions). It takes a lot of its playstyle from Zelda, being based around a daykiller. The boos are in early, with a Bodyguard (they pierce anyway, and popple can hax just about everyone here), so Mario can't claim until Rosalina distracts them to death/geno finds them (watching isn't super reliable). The boos are meant to be weak, but populated, like Vaati's minions.
    In "nonpeak" games, the game is basically the same but without Mario, it's more like "Geno tries to figure out who dies", might give Geno slight hax or add another PR later, maybe even swap in some Toadettes and put in Goombario (toadettes tattle as having kills) with a stalker (maybe Yoshi could fit here!), could be interesting. Also, Popple might become a werewolf (kill distracts) in the future, for when he's alone in smallish games.
    The whole Glitz Pit mafia comes in in really big games, but that can be changed by removing a Boo or a Toad if that's really not cool. Finally, in lists 3 and 4? Geno is replaced by Goombario as far as information gathering goes, and does not appear again until much later.
    "The Brain" can be changed to "Brain" in case having "the" causes confusion when there are a couple, also Ballyhoo will expose them as "the The Brain" i think

    finally the pastebin will be most likely changed to a github sometime in the future for editing's sake
     
  8. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Make Yoshi the bodyguard and then "find a role" for DK :D
    It makes a lot more of sense for Yoshi to be a BG. In games like Super Mario World, Yoshi means an extra hit you can take. DK would be better like a Bulletproof role or some other thing associated with its muscles (like a vigi), I don't think I ever saw DK having a protective role in a Mario (or even a DKC) game.
     
  9. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    Obey to Kyubey
    About DK i do not understand why he is sided with mario, in the Mario games he was always the Opponent never the ally, maybe he is not evil or a real enemy but they never have been on good term.
     
  10. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Mario and Donkey Kong are occasional rivals, nothing more, and he is staying as the bodyguard
     
  11. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    My only comment is I kinda of find it a pet peeve that Mario always ends up being a daykiller role. I understand that he's the star, but he's balanced in everything, not excelling in anything, thus the whole "RAHHH!!! Offensive!!!" thing doesn't make sense for me.

    Besides that, this looks decent, I'll take another look at it later.

    EDIT: I'll go ahead and explain my first comment more. Mario has so many forms, from Cat to Fire to Ice to Penguin to Frog... list goes on and on. It's so diversified that limiting his power to just a daykill seems lazy and not really using the character. Karp and I were planning on making a Mario theme, but since you two beat us to it I'll share what one of our plans were.

    To include the forms, we were going to give the main characters (we decided on Rosalina, Mario, Luigi, Blue Toad, and Peach cause it was on 3D World at the time) a chance of being converted into a midway form to where the character would use a /hit command to then randomly receive a boost in their powers, based on what they convert to. We had decided this conversion would take place when the miller dies, which would make the role much more important than usual.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  12. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    mario is the centeal role of the mario theme and we decided to base the theme around a daykiller, so there you go

    real quick: boo has been changed to identify distracters instead of die to them (quite a change huh) and theme is being changed to github
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  13. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I understand that, but there's ALOT you can do with Mario and doesn't really stand out as unique. There's alot more that can be done.
     
  14. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    who said every single part of a theme had to be unique?...

    I'm concerned that everyone is more worried about the actual characters playing the roles instead of the roles themselves
     
  15. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Because flavour is actually important. Not more important than gameplay, but not less important either. Put any of them aside and you will have, at best, an average theme.

    And to be fair, this theme is weak on the flavour aspect. Not only because of the lack of Yoshi (which I still think it should be a BG, but won't mention this anymore unless I have something new to add), but because it hardly feels like Mario. You try to get characters from different Mario games, but that only makes it hard to visualize this theme a a concise representation of what the Mario series is. It would feel a lot more Mario-esque if you focused on stablished characters instead of random characters without any charm or relevancy to the franchise as a whole.

    If you want an example to prove my point, then look at this: http://pastebin.com/Um9USHMW
    This is the first Kirby theme added to the server. It was made by someone else and finished before I could finish my version (which forced me to use a different name). It has lots of characters from different games, yet it feels random because it uses characters like Prince Fluff and Galacta Knight which are hardly relevant to the series, instead of focusing on the core characters.
     
  16. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    The Mario RPG and Party games are just as much a part of the series as Mario himself is, the theme is about memorable characters from the entirety of the Mario universe and you're worried about yoshi isn't in it yet! I don't know what the problem is with us trying to be unique, but if you want every single version of a mario theme to be MARIO VS BOWSER VS WARIO and that's it then go get black mage's theme, if it's more "Marioesque"
    Super irrelevant as marx himself was only in one game (and a remake of that game!), Zero was in one, and dark matter was in three (one of which he was referred to as !?), even RSK was in only one game
    Fawful was in 3, Popple was in 2, Cackletta first main antagonist associated with both them
    Glitz Pit only paper mario side, 4 paper mario games, key characters/memorable characters in a very well known/beloved game in the series
    If you want Yoshi in so much think of something else for him, we already have a bodyguard.
     
  17. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    You may criticize BM's version for its gameplay, but the flavour was almost perfect. It felt like a Mario game. IMO, it was one of the themes that had the most well built flavour of all I've seen here (which is why I tried to help him remake it often).

    You are missing the point here. It's not about the number of appearances, it's about its relevance. Marx and Dark Matter/Zero may have few appearances, but they are all important. So much that they keep re-using or making references to them all the time.

    Meanwhile, who the heck is Puni Elder? Boomer? Heck, even Geno feels out of place here (and I'm a big fan of Mario RPG). In terms of flavour, this theme is one step away of reminding me of therealkuja themes (if you remember that guy). Choosing a more specific subset of the Mario universe would make the theme way more charming. The Mario series is too big to try to fit all of its spin-offs in a single theme.
     
  18. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    The one thing I'll agree with you on there is about Puni Elder, does kinda suck. Didn't want mayor Peach.
    Now that I think about it, Yoshi would make a good mayor. There are a ton of Yoshis. Makes a lot more sense than a single Yoshi being a bodyguard, to me.

    That said yoshi is the new mayor

    Boomer is the only thing we could even think of for a bomb without dipping back into thousand year door/original paper mario again for an actual bobomb, he's a Pixl from Super Paper Mario (a whole new race), they're kinda like powerup fairies, and boomer's power is explosions. Boomer for me is the most iffy role other than Puni Elder, would be open to replacements for him too. I just don't remember Mario working with anyone who exploded before without going to Paper Mario, where common enemy species join his team

    However, Geno and Donkey Kong are staying how they are

    EDIT: This brings up something interesting, Birdo and Yoshi are usually associated with each other and could be masons but that might be too much like cook and mini (actually would be exactly like them)
     
  19. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Going with what Rice said, this theme would overall work better by focusing on a single game, cause right now it looks like "I'm just gonna pull this character and this character... ooh and this guy too because they've been in a Mario game!". Hardly meshes. Just relax and consolidate on one game. Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario 3D World anyone?

    EDIT: Also, do the auth just get to bypass the "one theme per topic" rule or something? I've delayed my Mario theme TWICE because Natsu Dragniil's version is in review (and still is, mind you) and you guys just roll in like "Yeah, forget that rule cause it's our party, we'll do what we want".
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  20. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    By that logic, there are ton of Toads too, so they would be an even better Mayor.
    Donkey Kong never protected anyone on any game (Well, he kinda protected Diddy on SSBB... by punching him). Yoshi does that all the time. Why it is so hard to admit that Yoshi is the perfect character for a protective role? Yoshi as a Mayor makes no sense at all, the role is "Yoshi", not "Yoshis".
    Are you worried that people will compare it to previous themes? Can't you see that every theme had Yoshi as a BG because it made a lot of sense? Are you going to ruin your theme only because of that?
     
    Joeypals!! likes this.
  21. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    No

    It was discussed with Roild extensively
    They already have a role
    No

    I'm about to stop responding to the both of you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on a broad spectrum of mario games considering there are so many
     
  22. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    So in other words, you're going to ignore two people with large amounts experience trying to HELP you when you're sitting here rejecting everything that we're saying... are you kidding me? And since when is Roild the messiah of Mafia? I've asked Windblown, Withoutatrace, AND Fuzzysqurl on the matter and they told me to hold on, wait, so I have been while Natsu's theme is in review. If I were to pull what you pulled, what I be subjected to scrutiny just because I'm a regular member?
     
  23. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Yes
    Lol Roild is in charge of QC and Mafia Review
     
  24. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    So in other words, Fuzzysqurl doesn't matter, Windblown doesn't matter, and Withoutatrace don't matter... glad to see where your views lay.

    Aren't authors, oh idk, supposed to TAKE criticism? You may not see it, but you've basically told Rice and I "fuck you, how I see things is right, forget Selena since I won't let her have any say in this, forget experience.".

    I really hope your attitude is taken into account by the reviewers. Have a nice day!
     
  25. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    I don't have adequate time to accurately respond to this thread right now, but I prefer speaking for myself rather than someone saying i said something that I don't fully know what you're trying to say I said.

    Response to flavor:
    Why do Fruit have actions? It makes no sense a Kiwi can inspect or a Mango can kill.
    Why doesn't everything in SSBB have a kill? Can't they all kill in the game?
    What makes Cactuar think he is Locke? Why does he only see Kefka too?
    Why doesn't FE restart at night 1 when a PR dies? Yes, I'm implying soft resets.

    The theme author has control over their flavor. They can deny suggestions if they want. They can choose to agree with them if they want.
     
  26. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    What I was referring to you 3 for was when I asked if I had to wait to post a theme with the same topic in Review and all 3 of you had told me "Yeah, probably". So I sat and waited for Natsu's theme to be either Rejected or Approved (btw, he posted a second version) while these two jumped in and were able to without any visible reprecussions. I honestly don't see how that's fair to me, or Natsu for that matter.
     
  27. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    I didn't say that, I said Roild was in charge of QC because he is.

    Taking criticism is completely different from implementing it, we have indeed rejected your ideas a few posts ago so you should leave it alone maybe?

    the only bad attitude i see here is yours, can you calm down? the only thing I did was change yoshi to a mayor and make donkey kong a bodyguard, is that like, attitudey? I've constantly made posts that donkey kong was the bodyguard, and that is not changing, although I appreciate your concern about the well being of our theme.

    If you want to talk about how unfair the review process is, post somewhere else. This is a thread about Micaiah and I's mario theme, not about complaining that the posting of it is unfair.
     
  28. Dreadpool

    Dreadpool Inb4 I die N1...

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    Going back to the DK/Yoshi Debate.
    In my opinion Yoshi is a more prominent Mario cast member than DK is.
    Lets look at the main series (Side series like party and kart always feature both [discounting Super Mario Kart which only had Yoshi out of the two]) DK has had next to no involvement in main Mario games, Yoshi is in nearly every one tbh.

    Yoshi should have a more central role in the the theme than DK, BG are the spines of most themes and without them village is done 9/10.

    That said I see toadsworth as more of a Mayor type anyway.
     
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  29. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Fine, I'll lay it out then. The flavor sucks for reasons that both RiceKirby and I said, who you're apparently ignoring. And last I checked, the themes are supposed to be unique, but all I see is borrowed ideas for the main roles (Link in the form of Mario, Hermes in the form of Peach, Zorua in the form of Bowser Jr., Salamence in the form of RAWK HAWK, list goes on and on).
     
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  30. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    There's no debate, DK is the bodyguard in this theme
     
  31. Dreadpool

    Dreadpool Inb4 I die N1...

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    There was a debate, one side suggested Yoshi be BG, the other side suggested/stated otherwise.
    Ergo there was a debate.


    Not saying what you should do, your theme you make it how you want. I was only providing my opinion on the situation.
     
  32. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    I appreciate your opinion, and I appreciate your understanding!
    Also, Toadsworth was considered for Mayor, but now we have the highly requested Yoshi in his place.
     
  33. Micaiah

    Micaiah Bop it

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    Sooooo
    Like was said before, we discussed this with Roild so if you have problems with this, then take it to him.

    I REALLY dont see what is the problem with having Donkey Kong as the Bodyguard. He has appeared in the Mario series often, is a memorable character of the series etc. He is staying there. Can we move on for this? Like I have actual concerns about the balance of the theme and if all of the roles are fun to plays as etc. Tbh im just letting sky post bc im shit at posting on fourms (dont know how!!) but we do talk about every little change and stuff.
     
  34. RudeStyle

    RudeStyle A year late x D

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    This is so stupid. A well known member constantly picking on a minor detail, when i think of mario, DK is one of the first to come to mind. For one he is a common MK Character which is a successful series its self, and yoshi works as a mayor and is a central role. Picking on such a tiny detail instead of progressing the theme. Waste of time even posting ._.

    That's way too harsh, and unprofessional when reviewing a theme. '-'


    I like the theme, it's balanced and features both well known characters and some not so well known characters which isn't a bad thing. Personally I think it makes the theme more interesting then just the same old main characters,focusing on one game wouldn't help with flavor whatsoever. Although it would be nice if you could expand on mario since he does have many "powers" you could utilize which would help with the flavor but it's not a major detail. Like you could do Bee mario,rock mario,cloud mario or ice mario. There is so many to play with n_n.
     
  35. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    There's your answer on that :(
     
  36. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    That doesn't mean the author should just put whatever action they want for a character. Flavour is important, if you for example put Mewtwo as a villager character in a Pokémon theme all players will say "Why the hell is Mewtwo a villager?".
    Flavour should be given the same treatment that all other aspects receive when a theme is being reviewed, because players actually care for that. Players love when Sephiroth kill Aerith and then Cloud kill Sephiroth. Players love when Link kill Ganondorf. Players love when Red catches 6 Fire-type pokémon in Trainers. People complained all the time when Themis was Myth's Vigilante. You can't simply put flavour aside as if it's just a minor detail.
     
  37. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    Then the theme doesn't pass Review. If it does, then it doesn't get played. When it doesn't get played, we remove it and laugh at the author for being too thick headed. Not everyone is receptive to suggestions, I once worked on a theme with someone that way. Its just who they are, no sense getting all worked up over flavor, they're digging their own grave at this point.

    Besides, I don't really see a difference between Yoshi being Mayor or BG. One he can use a shell to protect someone (I'd personally do this 'cause its easier), the other he could throw a shell and it contains more votes or something. It's all about how you word it. The examples you listed were more "major" characters, in this case, Mario would be the character in focus. If Mario was a Villager, or a basic Mayor (like 2-4 votes), then I'd have a problem.

    I've run into flavor issues where I have to stretch someone's abilities to try to make it canon. ROTK was a prime example of this. Everyone was based on a fighter in a war. Obviously not everyone can kill, so some had to be altered to direct attention towards what I wanted. Most of the Bodyguards fall into this category. I selected "slower" characters that usually wore more armor and just said they were bodyguards.
    There's also literally zero flavor behind Diao Chan's anti-kuja vote and night/day bomb, the Lu Bu part had flavor, but the rest was just making up a role to fit in the theme.

    All I'm saying is, if you can fake it, it can be your flavor. (PS: No one scrutinize Ocean please. I know Angel Fish aren't actually angels and can't shine lights on people. Gurry shark should be a poison bomb, not a poisoner. Dolphin has zero reasoning why its a Kuja, or why when Blue Whale dies it converts. And so on.)
     
  38. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Or Yoshi could have a 'call' command instead of like an egg command, since the reason he's mayor is because there are dozens of Yoshis (call for friends!)
     
  39. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    It's not like DK being the BG is a completely unreasonable role assignment flavor-wise. I'm fine with it, if people on server want to complain, that's the theme authors' issue and I'm really not going to bother people about things like slight imperfections in regards to idealistic flavor

    Before anyone wants to comment on how the above post's reason for mayor Yoshi makes no sense I could point out a whole lot of abilities that make no sense flavor wise (eg Near's 2.1 votes due to his "adorable hair-twirling tendencies")

    I'm pretty sure I told Joey that before Natsu Dragniil's theme came into review, I do remember telling him to wait, but I'm not sure of the exact reason, but bear in mind that the theme was declined by QC first time around and the 2nd theme doesn't seem to have that much of a difference and/or improvement. That doesn't really justify putting this theme up I guess, but this is more of something for @Roild to address since Sky alluded to him approving it, so don't bring me in to this because my opinion actually /doesn't/ matter

    The underlying reason for most Mario themes not doing well in Review, at least imo, is precisely because there's so much stuff to use in Mario that everyone is getting a different idea of what kind of flavor to expect, not to mention a lot of characters and some of their roles could be taken from SSBB (Mario, Luigi, Peach, DK, Bowser, Wario). The latter isn't SSBB's fault, and I know at least in this theme the roles aren't directly copied (Mario is samurai v villager, for example), but you do see them repeated, which is something that just at a subliminal level doesn't feel right

    As for this theme it is recycling a lot of role archetypes as Joey pointed out. In the OP you mentioned how the inspector inspects actions and a mafia role that becomes stronger over time - Trainers does the first part, and your only really 'unique' role isn't even attributed to one of the most iconic Mario roles (I think? Point is you didn't give it to Bowser over Cackletta, and people will think of Bowser first when Mario villains are brought up, but this Bowser in the theme isn't really anything special). That, along with village being pretty lackluster, doesn't really give people something to be excited for when the theme is started. When you start Space Invaders you look forward to being the Laser Cannon (most people, at least). When you start Final Fantasy you look forward to taking down Kuja and Kefka as well as being Cloud. (Cackletta I suppose may reach the kind of danger Kuja poses to the village, but it takes a few nights to get going, which is more reminiscent of Ultimecia tbh because large votes are very important lategame). You get the point though, I ask that you don't really scrutinize my examples because that's not the focal point of my argument.

    Re: flavour on the theme holistically, you have to concede that @IceKirby makes a point when he says that the theme doesn't feel like Mario because most of the things that you pulled from other games aren't as popular as most things you have when you think of Mario. I really don't know the Mario universe that much, but Bob-omb > Boomer in the bomb slot because the Bob-omb actually is more iconic (I've only seen it play a good role in Paper Mario games though in the form of Bombette and Bobbery iirc, so I can't help you there).

    It doesn't have to focus on one Mario game in particular, although that does work, and you don't have to give a fuck about people on server who complain "why don't you just make it Mario in general" (at least not without posting on forums) because the flavor angle is much easier ***just a side rant here, you can keep it Mario universe as a whole

    Point is diversity isn't necessarily better than popularity in terms of a mafia theme. This theme already has Mario / Bowser / Wario sides, it's kind of a given that you'll have sides built around those characters so don't say "not every theme has to be MARIO V BOWSER V WARIO" when it's pretty damn hard to make a Mario theme on everyone without including those two mafia sides

    On a side note it would be much easier for people to argue about iconic games/characters that could go in if you added from which game a character comes if it isn't obvious (and I guess you don't have to bother about things like Luigi and Peach and Mario obviously. but you should note exactly what games people like Wario and DK do appear in, as it's not obvious outside of Mario Party/Kart)

    PS: is it me or is there a ton of Paper Mario line representation
     
  40. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Bob-omb is also a helper NPC in Mario 64 and a neutral NPC in some Mario Party boards (at least the N64 ones), but it still has a stronger presence as an enemy than as an ally, so it's understandable if Bob-omb is not put with village.

    As a last attempt to get Yoshi as a BG, I'd like to remind everyone that Yoshi has an whole game series where all he does is protect Mario (AKA Yoshi's Island series). You can ignore if you want, and I'm not even going to say "You definitely have to put Yoshi as a BG" this time, but this argument is actually really good, so I have to put it here, and I would appreciate if you actually put some thought into it.
     
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