Changing Set Level in Common XY Tiers to 50

Discussion in 'Simulator Suggestions' started by Kyrk, Jul 6, 2014.

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  1. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    In Pokemon X and Y, the most common set level for all battle formats (singles, doubles, etc.) is level 50. So for people actually testing their teams for in-game play, I believe the set level for the PO tiers (or at least the XY tiers) should be set to 50 as well.

    The difference between level 50 and 100 pokemon (apart from the higher level and stats) is the EV stat distribution; at level 50 it typically takes 8 EVs instead of 4 to raise a stat by 1 point, meaning if you're attempting to create more complex spreads than 252/252/4 for your pokemon, you'll be having trouble accurately testing them out.

    For example, say I wanted to make an Adamant Talonflame with enough Speed EVs to outspeed max Speed Jolly Excadrill by 1 point. At level 100 Talonflame only needs 60 Spd EVs to outspeed Excadrill; however, at level 50 Talonflame needs 68 Spd EVs in order to do the same thing, otherwise I'll only wind up speed-tieing whenever I try using that level 100 spread over to in-game, which makes a small yet significant difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  2. SongSing

    SongSing KILLL

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    This could make it impossible to use some moves on pokes that don't breed :\
     
  3. Hannah

    Hannah Come a little closer

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    Yeah, but the goal of Pokemon Online is to simulate online play which is basically what a lot of the optimization is for.
     
  4. Crystal Moogle

    Crystal Moogle Ayaya~ Administrator Administrator

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    I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean moves that are learnt past level 50?
    Because online play just levels them down, so you can have a level 100 moveset fine in a level 50 battle. Also why things like Hydreigon would be fine.
     
  5. SongSing

    SongSing KILLL

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    Oh, I didn't realize it worked that way :p Yeah that's what I meant

    I guess this would be ok, but I feel like it would be too big of a change somehow
    I'm against it, but I don't have a good reason so whatever
    maybe make some kind of clause or new tiers or something
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  6. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    If you are trying to make EV spreads for level 50 Pokemon, you can just change the level in the team builder. Same as you would set the level of your Pokemon to 5 if you were trying to make a spread for LC.

    I don't think that in-game tiers being level 50 by default is a reason to make PO's tiers also be level 50. Especially since the reason for Pokemon to be set to level 50 in-game is to save time training Pokemon, which isn't an issue on a simulator.
     
  7. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    If you change your pokemons' levels to 50, you can't test those (or your preferred spreads) effectively on the ladder unless you want to battle pokemon twice your level. The simulator is intentionally made for testing teams to use in-game, so I can't see why the simulator pokemon shouldn't be the same level as in-game, at least for X/Y.
     
  8. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Damage calcs do change pretty significantly between level 50 and 100 and some speed tiers change from level 100 to level 50 when taking into account things like Choice Scarf and Tailwind. It shouldn't matter if it is easier to play at level 50 ingame if they still allow you to play at level 100 if there are significant changes between the game at the two different levels.
     
  9. Veteran Padgett

    Veteran Padgett TFT Main Developer Developer

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    I never said you should use level 50 Pokemon to battle level 100 ones. I just said that you shouldn't have any problems figuring out what ev spreads you need at level 50 since you can set the level in the teambuilder (as well as in Smogon's calculator, etc).

    What teams are you trying to test? I'm kind of confused about you mean by in-game play, because the level of your Pokemon is only ever altered in the GBU, Battle Maison/Test/Factory, or at VGC live tours. Random Battle and VGC are already level 50 on the server though. In other battles one of the players decides the rules and some of the options allow for your Pokemon to be level 100. There's nothing stopping you from having a level 100 OU battle on your DS for example.
     
  10. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    If I or someone else tries to battle with their PO or Smogon singles teams for wifi battles, the standard rules would normally have them be set to level 50. While there's an open level option to battle where you can battle with pokemon that are level 100, they have to be that level prior to the battle, meaning it's not nearly as common as level 50 battles due to the lack of pokegen for 6th gen pokemon.
     
  11. Khristophoros

    Khristophoros New Member

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    The simulators have always been a totally different experience from the real games. I could see the merit to adding a level 50 tier to help people test for the real games but most people play on here to play at level 100. It's what we like because we've been playing on simulators since early gens before competitive pokemon in the real games was very accessible. There was a time when you had to link cable with people to play them, and there were no in-game places that standardized level 50 play.

    As you said, level 100 play and level 50 play are totally different games. It's not just speed tiers, but also the fact that stat differences in general become more extreme. It's not fair to most of the simulator players to take away the level 100 play.

    Furthermore, people who wish to test for level 50 play have no use for the tiering system, so what would be the point of setting the main tiers to level 50? Those people should be testing on tierless X/Y to get the closest thing to the real game experience, without sleep clause or whatever. So the best option is to add a level 50 X/Y tier that has no restrictions at all.
     
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