Narcotics

Discussion in 'Review' started by jahildebra, Jul 4, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    I actually think the Illegal drugs is underpowered, I have no idea why it is top on the windata but whatever. I still think Cocaine's reveal chance should alot lower or even it should have no reveal chance. 80% is alot and having 2 normal mafia's for those medium games still doesn't work so well, you should add another role to the Illegal drugs or buff Crystal Meth up.

    Why is Cannabis sided with two sides? Wouldn't it be better to make it sided byitself and win with the legal and illegal drugs? It would make more sense as well.

    I don't think the Controlled drugs is that underpowered or overpowered, it's fine. Having their team's night action revealed to the public isn't really useful and it only effects Nicotine as the rest of the role on the Controlled drugs doesn't have a night action.
     
  2. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Regarding the Illegal Drugs, you can look at the latest update (Rev 9) and see what changes I've made. With a bit of effort, I've managed to provide for balanced small games in addition to balanced large games with a bit of effort by making a Meth role that shares nightkills, appearing in games with less than 15 players, and having Crystal Meth kill independently of its team, appearing in games with more than 15 players. To accomodate for this, I split the miller role into a small-game miller that reveals as Meth and a large-game miller that reveals as Crystal Meth.

    Another major change I made is that almost all roles (The exceptions being the Alcohol, Chemical Buffer, and Urinalysis roles) can be converted now, as per Miki's suggestion earlier in the thread. Mafia roles don't receive daykills from the conversion so the Penicillium role doubles as a psuedo-inspector with conversions doubling as psuedo-inspections. Of course, nothing is actually revealed, so the mafia is more than welcome to explain their way out of it. It could also call for the lynching of some villagers that didn't want to use it or didn't use it in time. My explanation for not having Urin and the Chemical Buffers as being Penicillin-enabled is simple: Urin is revealed as soon as it exposes. Chemical Buffers are closely connected to Urin by the end of n1 or n2. Having them as Penicillin-enabled roles would mean that Penicillium would have at least one 100% trustworthy role to spam conversions on from the start, and even more if Penicillium connected to Urinalysis and the bodyguards. It seems to me like that would be way too overpowered. :/

    I went ahead and took up your suggestion of giving Cannabis its own side ("conspirators" is the proto-side, the translation is "Illegal/Controlled Drugs") while it only wins with the Illegal or Controlled drugs.

    For the Controlled Drugs, I quite like the idea of having public night actions because it gives the village more to deal with without actually doing more harm to them, and it fits the theme. (Controlled substances are strictly monitored and distributed by the government, etc.) I'll agree that there isn't much point to it at the moment save for Chloroform's poisoning, but I will point out that Oxycodone has inspecting as a public night action, too.

    I'll continue updated the theme as we go along. I haven't had the chance to participate in many "exceptional" test games; most of them play out in a standard manner and are under 15 players, so I'm doing what I can to make it more interesting and fix whatever I see as being wrong. All of the suggestions from QC are very much appreciated, as I still have close to no idea what I'm doing balance-wise, but with your guys' help I'm sure we'll soon arrive at a destination of some sort. c:

    Thanks again for all of the feedback and help so far! :3
     
  3. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Alright, so after playing several games, I've noticed that the spawn lists are very, very bad at accommodating to varying levels of players, so in Rev. 10 I've upped the number of spawn lists from 2 to 6. Each one accommodates for an additional 5 players, starting at 5, meaning that the max is only 30 players at the moment.

    In addition, I've added the Hydrocodone role as the alternative mafia's shared killer so that the Controlled Drugs can appear in smaller games, and tweaked the Controlled Drug's night messages so that they're easier to understand. I've also updated the tips with a short Night Actions section to let new players know that Controlled Drugs have their night actions made public.

    Lastly, I've removed Caffeine's ability to get hax as per Roild's suggestion, and Caffeine (Sugar-Laced) now gets hax on kills, inspects, and poisons. Sugar-Laced Caffeine has lost the ability to get hax on player names, and can now only get hax on side names and role names.

    I'm hoping that with all of these changes I'll start seeing much more balance in Narcotics games, no matter how many players.
     
  4. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    Here's a log.

    (17:23:09) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:09) Times Up! :
    (17:23:09) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (17:23:09) ±Game: You are a Urinalysis!
    (17:23:09) ±Game: You are among one of the most used drug testing procedures in the medical industry! Type /test [name] to perform a drug test on a player during the day. The player you perform the test on will be exposed by your test, but you will be revealed in the process! Don't worry, though, because you automatically evade daykills. Work with your fellow Consumer Drugs to weed out the harmful and addictive substances!
    (17:23:09) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:23:09) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Mike Senpai, Nitrogen, Paradoxial, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron, X-kingdra.
    (17:23:09) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:23:09) ±Time: Night 1
    (17:23:09) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (17:23:09) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:09) +Mike Senpai: hi
    (17:23:15) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:23:15) ±Role: Crystal Meth
    (17:23:15) ±Ability: A dangerous concoction of neurotoxins that can kill once during the night. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (17:23:15) ±Players: 16-30 Players
    (17:23:15) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:23:15) ±Role: Meth
    (17:23:15) ±Ability: A dangerous neurotoxin that shares a nightly kill with the Illegal Drugs. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (17:23:15) ±Players: 2-15, 26-30 Players
    (17:23:15) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (17:23:24) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:23:24) ±Role: Adderall
    (17:23:24) ±Ability: A useful amphetamine used to treat ADHD patients, but inspects and reveals as Crystal Meth. Sees itself as Caffeine, and appears as Caffeine on the team list. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:23:24) ±Players: 16-30 Players
    (17:23:24) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:23:24) ±Role: Dexedrine
    (17:23:24) ±Ability: A useful amphetamine used to treat ADHD patients, but inspects and reveals as Meth. Sees itself as Caffeine, and appears as Caffeine on the team list. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:23:24) ±Players: 4-15 Players
    (17:23:24) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (17:23:36) +Nitrogen: im urinalysis prs pm
    (17:23:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:48) Times Up! :
    (17:23:48) ±Pharmacist: Paradoxial (Caffeine) has been chemically neutralized!
    (17:23:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:48) ±Current Roles: Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:23:48) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Mike Senpai, Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron, X-kingdra.
    (17:23:48) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:23:48) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (17:23:48) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (17:23:48) ±Pharmacist: You can now use /test [name] to expose someone's role! You will be revealed, however.
    (17:23:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:54) +Steam Baron: Caffcide
    (17:23:54) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:54) ±Nitrogen: Hey, guys! My Urinalysis test came back positive: Steam Baron is the Meth!
    (17:23:54) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:23:59) +Steam Baron: I'm caffeine
    (17:24:06) +Steam Baron: stop trollin'
    (17:24:06) Tohjo left the channel.

    (17:24:06) MidwayMarshall changed names and is now known as MidwayMarshallZzz.

    (17:24:08) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:24:08) ±Role: Dexedrine
    (17:24:08) ±Ability: A useful amphetamine used to treat ADHD patients, but inspects and reveals as Meth. Sees itself as Caffeine, and appears as Caffeine on the team list. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:24:08) ±Players: 4-15 Players
    (17:24:08) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (17:24:17) +Nitrogen: or dexedrine
    (17:24:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:24:18) ±Current Roles: Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:24:18) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Mike Senpai, Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron, X-kingdra.
    (17:24:18) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:24:18) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (17:24:18) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (17:24:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:24:20) +X-kingdra: caffeine is dead
    (17:24:23) +Steam Baron: that too
    (17:24:27) +Steam Baron: I'm dexed then
    (17:24:36) +Nitrogen: i shall not vote at 6
    (17:24:44) +Steam Baron: I'm clean so...
    (17:24:46) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:24:46) ±Role: Penicillin (Consumer Drugs)
    (17:24:46) ±Ability: A helpful antibiotic that can kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on role lists. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:24:46) ±Players: Players
    (17:24:46) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:24:46) ±Role: Penicillin (Illegal Drugs)
    (17:24:46) ±Ability: An antibiotic that cannot kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (17:24:46) ±Players: Players
    (17:24:46) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:24:46) ±Role: Penicillin (Controlled Drugs)
    (17:24:46) ±Ability: An antibiotic that cannot kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (17:24:46) ±Players: Players
    (17:24:46) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:24:46) ±Role: Penicillium
    (17:24:46) ±Ability: A fungus that can convert another drug into Penicillin to grant it daykills. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:24:46) ±Players: 6-30 Players
    (17:24:46) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (17:24:48) +Nitrogen: you are not clean
    (17:24:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:24:48) Times Up! :
    (17:24:48) No one was voted off!:
    (17:24:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:24:48) ±Current Roles: Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:24:48) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Mike Senpai, Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron, X-kingdra.
    (17:24:48) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:24:48) ±Time: Night 2
    (17:24:48) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (17:24:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:24:53) night fury left the channel.

    (17:24:54) +Nitrogen: you can still be meth
    (17:24:56) +Steam Baron: either me or Nitrogen will lead this
    (17:25:02) +Steam Baron: I can see my team ya know?
    (17:25:04) +Mike Senpai: ._.
    (17:25:08) night fury joined the channel.

    (17:25:11) +Steam Baron: Caffeine, Chem buffer, penici and urinalysis
    (17:25:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:18) Times Up! :
    (17:25:18) ±Pharmacist: Mike Senpai (Chemical Buffer) has been chemically neutralized!
    (17:25:18) ±Pharmacist: Penicillium has given someone the power of Penicillin!
    (17:25:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:18) ±Current Roles: Dexedrine, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:25:18) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron, X-kingdra.
    (17:25:18) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:25:18) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (17:25:18) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (17:25:18) ±Pharmacist: You can now use /test [name] to expose someone's role! You will be revealed, however.
    (17:25:18) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:25) +Steam Baron: plz expose
    (17:25:27) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:27) ±Nitrogen: Hey, guys! My Urinalysis test came back positive: X-kingdra is the Meth!
    (17:25:27) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:31) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:31) ±Pharmacist: X-kingdra was purified through the power of antibiotics!
    (17:25:31) ±Pharmacist: X-kingdra (Meth) has been chemically neutralized!
    (17:25:31) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:31) Pokefreak102 left the channel.

    (17:25:35) +Steam Baron: btw I killedi t
    (17:25:41) +Steam Baron: *it
    (17:25:43) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:25:43) ±Role: Penicillin (Consumer Drugs)
    (17:25:43) ±Ability: A helpful antibiotic that can kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on role lists. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:25:43) ±Players: Players
    (17:25:43) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:25:43) ±Role: Penicillin (Illegal Drugs)
    (17:25:43) ±Ability: An antibiotic that cannot kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (17:25:43) ±Players: Players
    (17:25:43) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:25:43) ±Role: Penicillin (Controlled Drugs)
    (17:25:43) ±Ability: An antibiotic that cannot kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (17:25:43) ±Players: Players
    (17:25:43) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (17:25:43) ±Role: Penicillium
    (17:25:43) ±Ability: A fungus that can convert another drug into Penicillin to grant it daykills. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (17:25:43) ±Players: 6-30 Players
    (17:25:43) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (17:25:43) BBlade left the channel.

    (17:25:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:48) ±Current Roles: Dexedrine, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (17:25:48) ±Current Players: Ikarus.Petclass., Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby, Steam Baron.
    (17:25:48) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (17:25:48) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (17:25:48) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (17:25:48) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:25:50) +Steam Baron: gg Ikarus.Petclass.
    (17:25:54) ±Pharmacist: Steam Baron reported Ikarus.Petclass. as being a harmful substance!
    (17:25:58) ±Pharmacist: Ikarus.Petclass. reported Steam Baron as being a harmful substance!
    (17:26:02) ±Pharmacist: Sleep Kirby reported Ikarus.Petclass. as being a harmful substance!
    (17:26:05) +Ikarus.Petclass.: i fite back :3
    (17:26:08) +Nitrogen: no problem
    (17:26:10) ±Pharmacist: Nitrogen reported Ikarus.Petclass. as being a harmful substance!
    (17:26:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (17:26:11) Times Up! :
    (17:26:11) ±DEA Agent: After 3 reports, Ikarus.Petclass. (Meth) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Illegal Drugs!
    (17:26:11) ±Pharmacist: The Consumer Drugs (Nitrogen, Sleep Kirby and Steam Baron) worked together and managed to rid the world of dangerous and harmful narcotics!
    (17:26:11) ***************************************************************************************

    I don't really think Penicillium should be in the early games. As you can see in this one it converted the Dexedrine and then they killed the meth.

    Everything else though looks pretty good at the moment and I will probably make up my decision when the testing period is over.
     
  5. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    I would suggest making it so that mafia roles can kill when cursed by Pennicillium. Otherwise it becomes too easy to scum hunt based on who doesn't use the kill or who can't be cursed.

    The win data is confusing, but I'm just going to assume the identical sides should be merged.

    (15:08:07) 1: Illegal Drugs. Times Won: 15. Average Players per win: 10.67
    (15:08:07) 2: Consumer Drugs. Times Won: 9. Average Players per win: 9.44
    (15:08:07) 3: Illegal Drugs. Times Won: 4. Average Players per win: 7.5
    (15:08:07) 4: Consumer Drugs. Times Won: 3. Average Players per win: 7

    Or,

    (15:08:07) 1: Illegal Drugs. Times Won: 19.
    (15:08:07) 2: Consumer Drugs. Times Won: 12.

    The village is not doing very well, and I think the reason is that it cannot seem to get organized properly. Maybe you should make Urinalysis have a revealing expose? Having someone for PRs to PM and BGs to Protect would improve the theme in my opinion. And it wouldn't be gamebreaking since PRs can't be empowered by Pennicillium.
     
  6. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Sorry for the delayed response here, I've had my plate full for the past few days. Anyways...

    Regarding Penicillium, granting the daykills to the village is something that I don't think I'll retcon because the village needs more of a diverse toolset for fighting off the mafia, especially taking into to consideration that the windata for Consumer Drugs doesn't look too good. I don't think I'll give the Mafia the ability to daykill after conversion again, but I think I may have a compromise in removing the millers' ability to daykill after conversion. This would reduce random daykilling in small games (Like in the log Nitrogen posted where Dexedrine randed and won immediately) without giving the Mafia a huge upper hand. It would also make scum hunting a bit harder for the Penicillium role knowing that the miller behaves the same way as the mafia does for conversions.

    For Urinalysis, the /test command actually DOES reveal who the Urinalysis is, but nobody seems to notice for whatever reason. I'm not quite sure why. I think a good solution here would be to make Urinalysis's identity a tad more obvious in the expose message or just have the game tell everybody who Urinaylisis is, akin to SI in which the LC role is announced. I'll probably just make the reveal a bit more obvious in the expose messages, and if that doesn't work out I'll try something else.

    Thanks for the suggestions, guys!
     
  7. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    24
    PO Trainer Name:
    Sky Sentinel
    (20:10:48) ±Murkrow: Sky Sentinel disabled theme Narcotics.
    Testing over?
     
  8. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    I haven't played this theme alot during the testing due to some internet problems but from what I can see the illegal drugs and the village seems to be doing well.

    The reason why people didn't notice that the test command reveal who the Urinalysis is before is because it was shown in the bot (if you know what I mean). Like here this is part of a log (17:23:54) ±Nitrogen: Hey, guys! My Urinalysis test came back positive: Steam Baron is the Meth! It shows me as the bot but that is now fixed now the person is revealed in the /expose message. In SI, it shows the bot then it says 'The Laser Cannon is (name)'', which can be clearer.

    There was some problems with the miller role but that has been fixed.

    There seems to be more changes needed with this theme and some has been made, I'm going to be thinking of giving this a re-test if more changes are needed.
     
  9. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    I think a lot of things need to be addressed before this theme is ready for the server. The complications of extra bodyguards in 11+ sized games, in addition to the Pennicillium role being overly safe with whom it can grant, make the village side too simple in my opinion. I would like to see this improved with a re-test [1].
     
  10. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    I'll give this a re-test when you balance out the village a bit more and maybe the illegal drugs.
     
  11. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    I'd certainly be up for another week of testing, as I've had a lot of fun working on this theme. I'll make some modifications and see if I can balance out the village/mafia more. I have an idea in that Penicillium's convert will have a 50% chance of granting a daykill to the mafiosi, which would make things more interesting without giving the mafia too much power (100% chance of daykills) or stripping them of too much power (0% chance of daykills). I'll see what else I can come up with and post changes once I've revised the theme a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  12. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Right!

    After a few extra role additions, Narcotics is now at Rev. 10.75. New roles have been added so that each mafia role has a chance of converting to one of two roles when being converted; the role in which they're granted a daykill, and the role in which they aren't. I've also tweaked a bit of the flavour text, so nothing too special there, but I have given the two miller roles their daykills back. With the mafia being able to daykill after conversion again (But only at a 50% rate of success) I figured the millers might need to have their kills back, plus they see themselves as caffeine so not being able to kill would be a dead giveaway as to their actual role. (Kind of ruins the miller role.)

    I'm hoping this will add a bit more balance in the long run, especially in large games where the Controlled Drugs didn't seem to be doing very well.

    If you guys have any more suggestions for me regarding balance, I'm all ears. c:
     
  13. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    I would like to see this theme be in play again on the server as there has been quite alot of changes made recently so I'm going to give this a Test [2].
     
  14. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    I'll give this the final Retest [3] as I've been busy lately and I have only played a few games, so I'd like to see how the new changes you made will affect the gameplay.
     
  15. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    A log here with the changes added in. Village seems to have the win again, maybe remove one of the Chemical Buffers? Doesn't make sense to have 2 that's already connected.


    (16:42:59) ±Game: Theme Narcotics won with 4 votes!
    (16:42:59) ±Game: Type /Join to enter the game!

    A Narcotics-themed mafia game is starting, Nitrogen!
    (16:42:59) ±Game: It's drug versus drug as the Consumer, Controlled, and Illegal Drugs battle it out! The energy of Caffeine can let it see the future, and the power of the Penicillium fungus can grant daykills to almost anyone! Even though their night activity is made public, the Controlled Drugs like Chloroform pose a serious threat with their poisonous chemical properties! Even Alcohol has joined the fray, lurking in the shadows as a powerful rogue. Can the Consumer Drugs purify the world of harmful narcotics before it's too late? (Now with tips!) Theme by jahildebra; PM with any comments, suggestions, or concerns.
    (16:42:59) ±Game: Nitrogen, Paradoxial, Diancienite, _EdwardElric_ joined the game!
    (16:43:00) ±Game: Zack joined the game!
    (16:43:02) ±Game: Chulbul Pandey joined the game!
    (16:43:02) ±Game: Keima K joined the game!
    (16:43:03) ±Game: slayer97 joined the game!
    (16:43:03) ±Game: BulbasaurDBeast joined the game!

    (16:43:09) ±Game: Hurry up, you only have 30 seconds more to join!

    (16:43:11) ±Game: look1456 joined the game!
    (16:43:14) +Mikee22: Narcotics>Naruto x)
    (16:43:14) BBlade joined the channel.

    (16:43:17) ±Game: Mikee22 joined the game!
    (16:43:22) ±Game: Wizard joined the game!
    (16:43:27) +Chulbul Pandey: n
    (16:43:28) +Wizard: hello
    (16:43:33) +BulbasaurDBeast: hi
    (16:43:34) +Mikee22: Don't do drugs kids
    (16:43:35) +Paradoxial: Narucotics
    (16:43:39) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:43:39) Times Up! :
    (16:43:39) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (16:43:39) ±Game: You are a Chemical Buffer!
    (16:43:39) ±Game: Use your neutralizing properties by typing /guard [name] to protect other drugs from neutralization and poisoning during the night. You are automatically aware of all other Chemical Buffers, but you can't protect them due to your identical chemical properties. Work with your fellow Consumer Drugs to take out the harmful and addictive substances!
    (16:43:39) ±Game: The Chemical Buffer is Diancienite, Nitrogen!
    (16:43:39) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:43:39) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Chulbul Pandey, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Paradoxial, Wizard, Zack, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:43:39) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (16:43:39) ±Time: Night 1
    (16:43:39) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (16:43:39) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:43:41) +Keima K: too late
    (16:43:43) +Keima K: nah
    (16:43:50) ±Dratini: folagor017 was muted by Mahnmut for 2 hours! [Reason: spam] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
    (16:43:50) +Paradoxial: urinalysis here
    (16:43:54) +Paradoxial: PRs PM
    (16:43:59) +Paradoxial: bg on me
    (16:44:01) ±Hint: Nope, this wont work... You can't target your partners!
    (16:44:02) Keima K is active and ready for battles.

    (16:44:05) ±Game: Your partner (Diancienite) has decided to guard 'Paradoxial'!
    (16:44:06) +Chulbul Pandey: ok
    (16:44:08) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (16:44:08) ±Role: Insulin
    (16:44:08) ±Ability: A macromolecule that allows sugar to enter cells. Vote counts as 2. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (16:44:08) ±Players: 11-30 Players
    (16:44:08) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (16:44:14) +Chulbul Pandey: who's villager?
    (16:44:14) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (16:44:14) ±Role: Cocaine
    (16:44:14) ±Ability: A deadly alkaloid that can inspect at night and kill during the day, but will be revealed. Aware of Alcohol's identity. Vote counts as 2. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (16:44:14) ±Players: 11-30 Players
    (16:44:14) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (16:44:18) +Paradoxial: caff
    (16:44:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:19) Times Up! :
    (16:44:19) ±Pharmacist: A pungent, earthy odor is wafted your way. slayer97 has revealed themself to be the Cannabis!
    (16:44:19) *** You have been chemically neutralized! ***
    (16:44:19) ±Pharmacist: Nitrogen (Chemical Buffer) has been chemically neutralized!
    (16:44:19) ±Pharmacist: Penicillium has given someone the power of Penicillin!
    (16:44:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:44:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Chulbul Pandey, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Paradoxial, Wizard, Zack, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:44:19) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (16:44:19) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (16:44:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:25) YummyCookies joined the channel.

    (16:44:28) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:28) ±DEA Agent: Paradoxial's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: Zack is the Meth!
    (16:44:28) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:35) +look1456: nice
    (16:44:38) +slayer97: nice
    (16:44:40) +Chulbul Pandey: but there is only 1
    (16:44:41) +Chulbul Pandey: :
    (16:44:43) +Chulbul Pandey: *:S
    (16:44:45) +Zack: um I'm caffeine no joke
    (16:44:48) +Chulbul Pandey: n
    (16:44:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:49) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:44:49) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Chulbul Pandey, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Paradoxial, Wizard, Zack, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:44:49) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (16:44:49) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:44:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:44:50) +Chulbul Pandey: u liar
    (16:44:51) +Chulbul Pandey: i am caff
    (16:44:57) +Wizard: hmm
    (16:44:58) BBlade left the channel.

    (16:44:59) ±Pharmacist: Chulbul Pandey reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:01) +Paradoxial: dexedrine
    (16:45:02) ±Pharmacist: slayer97 reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:02) +Chulbul Pandey: he's meth
    (16:45:02) ±Pharmacist: BulbasaurDBeast reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:02) BBlade joined the channel.

    (16:45:03) ±Pharmacist: look1456 reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:05) +Paradoxial: ...
    (16:45:06) ±Pharmacist: Mikee22 reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:09) ±Pharmacist: Wizard reported Zack as being a harmful substance!
    (16:45:09) +Zack: g a me told me.
    (16:45:13) +Paradoxial: just follow exposed meth
    (16:45:15) +Paradoxial: thanks village
    (16:45:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:19) Times Up! :
    (16:45:19) ±DEA Agent: After 9.5 reports, Zack (Dexedrine) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Consumer Drugs!
    (16:45:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:45:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Chulbul Pandey, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:45:19) ±Time: Night 2
    (16:45:19) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:45:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:23) +Paradoxial: owait
    (16:45:26) +Paradoxial: nvm -.-
    (16:45:27) +Chulbul Pandey: oh too bad
    (16:45:27) +Mikee22: ;-;
    (16:45:28) +Paradoxial: I can't read
    (16:45:30) Psyayeaye left the channel.

    (16:45:35) +Paradoxial: what is words
    (16:45:35) +Chulbul Pandey: but u said he was meth
    (16:45:42) +Paradoxial: could have been dex
    (16:45:48) +Paradoxial: it's a miller
    (16:45:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:49) Times Up! :
    (16:45:49) ±Pharmacist: Penicillium has given someone the power of Penicillin!
    (16:45:49) No one died! :
    (16:45:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:49) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:45:49) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Chulbul Pandey, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:45:49) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (16:45:49) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (16:45:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:51) +_EdwardElric_: what role is inspector in this theme?
    (16:45:57) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:57) ±DEA Agent: Paradoxial's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: _EdwardElric_ is the Caffeine!
    (16:45:57) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:45:58) +Chulbul Pandey: idk
    (16:46:01) +Paradoxial: ok
    (16:46:04) +Chulbul Pandey: liar!!
    (16:46:04) +Paradoxial: confirmed clean
    (16:46:07) +_EdwardElric_: Chulbul Pandey claimed caffiene
    (16:46:09) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:09) ±Pharmacist: Chulbul Pandey was purified through the power of antibiotics!
    (16:46:09) ±Pharmacist: Chulbul Pandey (Dexedrine) has been chemically neutralized!
    (16:46:09) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:10) +_EdwardElric_: kill it with fire
    (16:46:14) +_EdwardElric_: or not
    (16:46:15) [test] Tickles left the channel.

    (16:46:15) +Paradoxial: that's what I expected
    (16:46:16) Synortex joined the channel.

    (16:46:16) +Paradoxial: lel
    (16:46:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:46:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Mikee22, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:46:19) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (16:46:19) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:46:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:22) +Paradoxial: well
    (16:46:24) +Paradoxial: Imma rand
    (16:46:26) ±Pharmacist: Paradoxial reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (16:46:30) ±Pharmacist: _EdwardElric_ reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (16:46:30) Disarray joined the channel.

    (16:46:31) ±Pharmacist: slayer97 reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (16:46:33) ±Pharmacist: look1456 reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (16:46:38) ±Pharmacist: BulbasaurDBeast reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (16:46:41) +_EdwardElric_: shouldnt prs pm me if im cleaned?
    (16:46:42) +Mikee22: you honestly have something against me
    (16:46:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:49) Times Up! :
    (16:46:49) ±DEA Agent: After 7.5 reports, Mikee22 (Meth) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Illegal Drugs!
    (16:46:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:49) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:46:49) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:46:49) ±Time: Night 3
    (16:46:49) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:46:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:46:50) +Paradoxial: ...?
    (16:46:54) +Paradoxial: sorry?
    (16:47:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:19) Times Up! :
    (16:47:19) No one died! :
    (16:47:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:47:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:47:19) ±Time: Day 3 (Standby)
    (16:47:19) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (16:47:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:29) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:29) ±DEA Agent: Paradoxial's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: Wizard is the Cocaine!
    (16:47:29) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:35) +Paradoxial: get that
    (16:47:38) +_EdwardElric_: eat it!
    (16:47:39) Mikee22 left the channel.

    (16:47:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:49) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Cocaine, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:47:49) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, Wizard, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:47:49) ±Time: Day 3 (Voting)
    (16:47:49) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:47:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:47:51) ±Pharmacist: Paradoxial reported Wizard as being a harmful substance!
    (16:47:53) ±Pharmacist: BulbasaurDBeast reported Wizard as being a harmful substance!
    (16:47:53) ±Pharmacist: slayer97 reported Wizard as being a harmful substance!
    (16:47:57) ±Pharmacist: _EdwardElric_ reported Wizard as being a harmful substance!
    (16:48:08) Stocke joined the channel.

    (16:48:10) ±Pharmacist: look1456 reported Wizard as being a harmful substance!
    (16:48:15) +Paradoxial: cannabis, reveal to me
    (16:48:18) +Paradoxial: I am friendly scum
    (16:48:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:48:19) Times Up! :
    (16:48:19) ±DEA Agent: After 7.5 reports, Wizard (Cocaine) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Illegal Drugs!
    (16:48:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:48:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Cannabis, Chemical Buffer, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:48:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, _EdwardElric_, look1456, slayer97.
    (16:48:19) ±Time: Night 4
    (16:48:19) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:48:19) ***************************************************************************************
    upload_2014-7-28_16-53-49.png Friend joined
    meeps logged in.
    (16:48:24) meeps joined the channel.

    (16:48:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:48:49) Times Up! :
    (16:48:49) ±Pharmacist: slayer97 (Cannabis) has been chemically neutralized!
    (16:48:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:48:49) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:48:49) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, _EdwardElric_, look1456.
    (16:48:49) ±Time: Day 4 (Standby)
    (16:48:49) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (16:48:49) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:48:53) +Paradoxial: LMAO
    (16:48:57) +Paradoxial: he actually revealed to me
    (16:48:57) +look1456: lol
    (16:49:05) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:49:05) ±DEA Agent: Paradoxial's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: Keima K is the Meth!
    (16:49:05) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:49:09) +_EdwardElric_: gg
    (16:49:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:49:19) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (16:49:19) ±Current Players: BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite, Keima K, Paradoxial, _EdwardElric_, look1456.
    (16:49:19) ±Time: Day 4 (Voting)
    (16:49:19) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (16:49:19) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:49:22) ±Pharmacist: BulbasaurDBeast reported Keima K as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:23) BBlade left the channel.

    (16:49:24) ±Pharmacist: Paradoxial reported Keima K as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:26) BBlade joined the channel.

    (16:49:28) ±Pharmacist: look1456 reported Keima K as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:30) ±Pharmacist: _EdwardElric_ reported Keima K as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:35) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (16:49:35) ±Role: Crystal Meth
    (16:49:35) ±Ability: A dangerous concoction of neurotoxins that can kill once during the night. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (16:49:35) ±Players: 16-30 Players
    (16:49:35) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (16:49:35) ±Role: Meth
    (16:49:35) ±Ability: A dangerous neurotoxin that shares a nightly kill with the Illegal Drugs. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (16:49:35) ±Players: 2-15, 26-30 Players
    (16:49:35) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (16:49:36) ±Pharmacist: Keima K reported Keima K as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:39) ±Pharmacist: Diancienite reported BulbasaurDBeast as being a harmful substance!
    (16:49:40) ***************************************************************************************
    (16:49:40) Times Up! :
    (16:49:40) ±DEA Agent: After 6 reports, Keima K (Meth) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Illegal Drugs!
    (16:49:40) ±Pharmacist: The Consumer Drugs (Paradoxial, _EdwardElric_, BulbasaurDBeast, Diancienite and look1456) worked together and managed to rid the world of dangerous and harmful narcotics!
    (16:49:40) ***************************************************************************************

    Looking back at the log I've just noticed a grammar mistake on the roles list. On Meth it says that it shares a 'nightly kill', I think you mean night kill. I also don't think you need to put ending part on that bit 'with the illegal drugs' it can just be with it's team.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  16. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Alrighty then. I'll go ahead and patch up the typos there (thanks for pointing that out!) and adjust the spawn for 11+ players games. I like having the chemical buffers connected, but yeah, having more than one in a small game like that seems a bit overpowered.

    EDIT: Changes have been made, and we have arrived at Rev. 10.80!
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  17. canterbury egg

    canterbury egg New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    PO Trainer Name:
    Canterbury Egg
    I think I mentioned this awhile back. If you want to have two chemical buffers in the small games, just make a different chemical buffer role that only spawns in small games and isn't connected. Change the description to say something like "knows other chemical buffers in large games". That way, everyone's happy!
     
  18. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    I think that's what I'll do if the new spawn lists don't work out. I haven't been in a game of Narcotics since the last update, though, so I haven't decided anything yet.
     
  19. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    So, after having played a few games (some peak, some non-peak) most of them played out rather smoothly. The changes to the spawnlist seem to have contributed to the balance of the theme, and I've just put up another update (Rev. 10.96) to sand off a few rough edges I'd just noticed.

    Now, when a player that has been converted to Penicillin is killed or voted off, their role will appear as "Penicillin (~Old Role~)" instead of "Penicillin" to prevent confusion. When exposed or inspected, they still appear as "Penicillin" so that this doesn't affect the current balance of the theme. Since my last post, I've also tweaked both of the miller roles' dummy command to be the regular /boost command with a 100% chance of failing so that they get the "You could not boost this night" message after using it, and I've also changed Alcohol so that it evades Meth's kills as well as Crystal Meth's because Meth can appear alongside Alcohol in larger games.

    Hopefully I'll be able to hop on my computer tonight and get some logs for QC, as I haven't had a chance to do so while working mainly off of my phone. c:
     
  20. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    With two bodyguards, the village is rather strong. Though they cannot protect each other, they are also Masons, and their ability to block 2 kills can strengthen the village quite a bit. I don't think that's a problem necessarily, but I'm somewhat against repeat roles. I'll get to that in a bit.

    I don't see Penicillium granting very much anymore, either because they decide not to grant, or because they keep finding mafia. If you want to add risk/reward into this theme, I think it would be best to enabling all roles except Urinalysis to use Penicillium's upgrade. The village doesn't need any more safety nets. If Penicillium decides to give someone a daykill, they should be willing to take the risk that they're not on your side. After all, mafia is a game of guessing who is and who is not on your side.

    I have a couple other concerns, besides balance. Mainly, it is that the theme does not bring as much that is new to mafia as it could. The one unique role, I have already expressed qualms about because it is low risk / medium (?) reward. I think that can be improved. I can see Penicillium be the role that draws players to join Narcotics, but I would like to see it worked on still.

    Beyond that, I would encourage more diversity. There are 16 roles total, 2 of which are millers for villager. Many roles are recycled in the spawn, both village and mafia. While it isn't game-breaking, it would be nice to see more diversity in roles, as that tends to bring diversity in gameplay.

    Structurally, games look a lot better than they did at the beginning of the first testing period, and I might be ready to accept it with a few more tweaks.
     
  21. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    If you are going to have masons in the game, it is better for them to have a different action other than protect as village is quite OP at the time being. You can have simple masons that has minus votes and can claim to connect for the village but that would be better for bigger games.

    Anyway here's a log.

    (01:23:10) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:23:10) ±Game: Nitrogen started a game with theme Narcotics (Drugs)!
    (01:23:10) ±Game: Type /Join to enter the game!
    (01:23:10) ***************************************************************************************

    A Narcotics-themed mafia game is starting, Nitrogen!
    (01:23:10) ±Game: It's drug versus drug as the Consumer, Controlled, and Illegal Drugs battle it out! Penicillium can grant most drugs a free daykill with the power of Penicillin, but harmful substances only have a 50% chance of receiving it. The Controlled Drugs have public night actions operating under the watch of the government, Caffeine's sugar-laced insomnia lets it see at night, and the league of Chemical Buffers offer protection for the Urinalysis test; the Consumer Drug's only hope in stopping the Illegal and Controlled Drugs! Can they purify the world of harmful and addictive substances before it's too late, or will the powerful rogue Alcohol stop them in their tracks? (Rev. 10.96)
    (01:23:10) ±Game: Nitrogen joined the game!
    (01:23:11) +Parasol Kirby: bop
    (01:23:13) ±Game: Nolan Ryan joined the game!
    (01:23:14) ±Game: Blanc. joined the game!
    (01:23:14) ±Game: Synortex joined the game!
    (01:23:15) ±Game: Kenneth P. joined the game!
    (01:23:15) ±Game: CanadianPianoMan joined the game!
    (01:23:16) ±Game: ghastly joined the game!
    (01:23:16) +maiTneko: lol
    (01:23:18) ±Game: Violet joined the game!
    (01:23:19) +Vongola Decimo: Let's all ignore claims from now on
    (01:23:20) ±Game: Vongola Decimo joined the game!
    (01:23:22) ±Game: Mikee22 joined the game!
    (01:23:29) +Blanc.: i wasn't reading chat
    (01:23:33) Autumn left the channel.

    (01:23:35) +Blanc.: since thats way to tiring
    (01:23:37) +Vongola Decimo: aka ignore

    (01:23:40) ±Game: Hurry up, you only have 30 seconds more to join!

    (01:23:47) ±Game: Terrible Ivan joined the game!
    (01:23:54) +Mikee22: I suck at this one
    (01:23:55) +RiceKirby: Not reading chat = not reading the game y/y
    (01:23:57) Parasol Kirby changed names and is now known as Misa Amane.

    (01:23:58) ±Game: Misa Amane joined the game!
    (01:24:00) Evil Kirby changed names and is now known as Pichi.

    (01:24:06) +Mikee22: *Hopes for the best*
    (01:24:08) +Nitrogen: the chat isnt the game the game is the chat
    (01:24:09) ±Game: You already joined!
    (01:24:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:24:11) Times Up! :
    (01:24:11) The Roles have been Decided! :
    (01:24:11) ±Game: You are a Chemical Buffer!
    (01:24:11) ±Game: Use your neutralizing properties by typing /guard [name] to protect other drugs from neutralization and poisoning during the night. You are automatically aware of all other Chemical Buffers, but you can't protect them due to your identical chemical properties. Work with your fellow Consumer Drugs to take out the harmful and addictive substances!
    (01:24:11) ±Game: The Chemical Buffer is Nitrogen!
    (01:24:11) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:24:11) ±Current Players: Blanc., CanadianPianoMan, Kenneth P., Mikee22, Misa Amane, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:24:11) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:24:11) ±Time: Night 1
    (01:24:11) Make your moves, you only have 40 seconds! :
    (01:24:11) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:24:16) ±Dratini: Stefan@ was muted by Hikari for 2 hours! [Reason: Rule 5] [Channel: Tohjo Falls]
    (01:24:19) +Misa Amane: t
    (01:24:19) +Misa Amane: '
    (01:24:21) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:24:21) ±Role: Hydrocodone
    (01:24:21) ±Ability: An addictive opioid painkiller that shares a nightly kill with the Controlled Drugs. Night actions are public. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (01:24:21) ±Players: 11-15, 26-30 Players
    (01:24:21) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:24:21) +Vongola Decimo: booster g
    (01:24:27) +Misa Amane: more like boos
    (01:24:28) +Misa Amane: t
    (01:24:30) +Synortex: heart here
    (01:24:37) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:24:37) ±Side: The Alcoholic Drinks consists of: Alcohol.
    (01:24:37) ±Side: The Consumer Drugs (Village) consists of: Adderall, Caffeine, Caffeine (Sugar-Laced), Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillin (Consumer Drugs), Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:24:37) ±Side: The Controlled Drugs consists of: Chloroform, Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, Penicillin (Controlled Drugs).
    (01:24:37) ±Side: The Illegal Drugs consists of: Cocaine, Crystal Meth, Meth, Penicillin (Illegal Drugs).
    (01:24:37) ±Side: The Illegal/Controlled Drugs consists of: Cannabis.
    (01:24:37) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:24:45) +Misa Amane: o wait
    (01:24:47) +Misa Amane: CHINCA
    (01:24:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:24:50) Times Up! :
    (01:24:50) ±DEA Agent: The Controlled Drug activity records show that Blanc. was killed by Hydrocodone!
    (01:24:50) ±Pharmacist: Blanc. (Caffeine) has been chemically neutralized!
    (01:24:51) ±Pharmacist: Misa Amane (Dexedrine) has been chemically neutralized!
    (01:24:51) ±Pharmacist: Kenneth P. (Hydrocodone) has been chemically neutralized!
    (01:24:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:24:51) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:24:51) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:24:51) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:24:51) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby)
    (01:24:51) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (01:24:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:24:59) Blanc. left the channel.

    (01:25:03) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:03) ±DEA Agent: ghastly's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: CanadianPianoMan is the Penicillium!
    (01:25:03) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:07) +ghastly: oop
    (01:25:09) +CanadianPianoMan: Hi there.
    (01:25:11) SlowToke left the channel.

    (01:25:12) Cybz left the channel.

    (01:25:13) +Synortex: ...gj
    (01:25:15) +Vongola Decimo: ghastly ur bad
    (01:25:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:20) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:25:20) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:25:20) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:25:20) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting)
    (01:25:20) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:25:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:27) +CanadianPianoMan: PRs wanna PM?
    (01:25:32) +Mikee22: rand?
    (01:25:33) +Nolan Ryan: what prs
    (01:25:37) SlowToke joined the channel.

    (01:25:44) +Mikee22: Not leading tho
    (01:25:45) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:25:45) ±Role: Chemical Buffer
    (01:25:45) ±Ability: A neutralizing chemical solution that can protect other drugs. Aware of other Chemical Buffers, but cannot protect them. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (01:25:45) ±Players: 1-30 Players
    (01:25:45) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:25:46) +Synortex: buffer and insulun
    (01:25:49) +Synortex: -_-
    (01:25:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:50) Times Up! :
    (01:25:50) No one was voted off!:
    (01:25:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:50) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:25:50) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:25:50) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:25:50) ±Time: Night 2
    (01:25:50) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:25:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:25:59) ±Game: You have chosen to guard ghastly!
    (01:26:01) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:01) ±Role: Penicillin (Consumer Drugs)
    (01:26:01) ±Ability: A helpful antibiotic that can kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on role lists. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (01:26:01) ±Players: Players
    (01:26:01) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:01) ±Role: Penicillin (Controlled Drugs)
    (01:26:01) ±Ability: An antibiotic that has a 50% chance to kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (01:26:01) ±Players: Players
    (01:26:01) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:01) ±Role: Penicillin (Illegal Drugs)
    (01:26:01) ±Ability: An antibiotic that has a 50% chance to kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:26:01) ±Players: Players
    (01:26:01) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:01) ±Role: Penicillium
    (01:26:01) ±Ability: A fungus that can convert another drug into Penicillin to grant it daykills. Illegal and Controlled drugs only have a 50% chance of getting a daykill from conversion. Cannot convert Alcohol, Chemical Buffer, or Urinalysis. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (01:26:01) ±Players: 6-30 Players
    (01:26:01) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:26:02) ßroken Glass joined the channel.

    (01:26:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:20) Times Up! :
    (01:26:20) No one died! :
    (01:26:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:20) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:26:20) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:26:20) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:26:20) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby)
    (01:26:20) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (01:26:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:22) FrontierDarkness joined the channel.

    (01:26:24) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:24) ±DEA Agent: ghastly's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: Nolan Ryan is the Hydrocodone!
    (01:26:24) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:25) +Synortex: wait what
    (01:26:27) +ghastly: best pitcher
    (01:26:32) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:32) ±Role: Hydrocodone
    (01:26:32) ±Ability: An addictive opioid painkiller that shares a nightly kill with the Controlled Drugs. Night actions are public. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (01:26:32) ±Players: 11-15, 26-30 Players
    (01:26:32) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:26:35) SlowToke left the channel.

    (01:26:37) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:37) ±Role: Crystal Meth
    (01:26:37) ±Ability: A crystallized concoction of neurotoxins that can kill once during the night. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:26:37) ±Players: 2-5, 16-30 Players
    (01:26:37) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:26:37) ±Role: Meth
    (01:26:37) ±Ability: A dangerous neurotoxin that shares a night kill with its team. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:26:37) ±Players: 6-15, 26-30 Players
    (01:26:37) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:26:45) SlowToke joined the channel.

    (01:26:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:51) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Hydrocodone, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:26:51) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Nolan Ryan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:26:51) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:26:51) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting)
    (01:26:51) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:26:51) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:26:59) ±Pharmacist: Synortex reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:01) ±Pharmacist: Terrible Ivan reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:03) ±Pharmacist: CanadianPianoMan reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:03) ±Pharmacist: Nitrogen reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:04) ±Pharmacist: Vongola Decimo reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:04) ±Pharmacist: ghastly reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:05) ±Pharmacist: Mikee22 reported Nolan Ryan as being a harmful substance!
    (01:27:13) MJ AFK changed names and is now known as Michael Jackson.

    (01:27:15) Michael Jackson is active and ready for battles.

    (01:27:20) +Nolan Ryan: Violet is meth
    (01:27:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:20) Times Up! :
    (01:27:20) ±DEA Agent: After 8 reports, Nolan Ryan (Hydrocodone) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Controlled Drugs!
    (01:27:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:20) ±Current Roles: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:27:20) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Nitrogen, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:27:20) ±Current Team: Caffeine, Chemical Buffer, Dexedrine, Insulin, Penicillium, Urinalysis
    (01:27:20) ±Time: Night 3
    (01:27:20) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:27:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:26) +Synortex: kay
    (01:27:26) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:26) ±Role: Crystal Meth
    (01:27:26) ±Ability: A crystallized concoction of neurotoxins that can kill once during the night. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:27:26) ±Players: 2-5, 16-30 Players
    (01:27:26) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:26) ±Role: Meth
    (01:27:26) ±Ability: A dangerous neurotoxin that shares a night kill with its team. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:27:26) ±Players: 6-15, 26-30 Players
    (01:27:26) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:27:28) Michael Jackson left the channel.

    (01:27:45) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:45) ±Game: No such role in this theme!
    (01:27:45) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:27:49) ±Game: You have chosen to guard ghastly!
    (01:27:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:50) Times Up! :
    (01:27:50) *** You have been chemically neutralized! ***
    (01:27:50) ±Pharmacist: Nitrogen (Chemical Buffer) has been chemically neutralized!
    (01:27:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:50) ±Current Roles: Caffeine (Sugar-Laced), Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:27:50) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:27:50) ±Time: Day 3 (Standby)
    (01:27:50) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! :
    (01:27:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:51) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:51) ±Role: Penicillin (Consumer Drugs)
    (01:27:51) ±Ability: A helpful antibiotic that can kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on role lists. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (01:27:51) ±Players: Players
    (01:27:51) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:51) ±Role: Penicillin (Controlled Drugs)
    (01:27:51) ±Ability: An antibiotic that has a 50% chance to kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Controlled Drugs.
    (01:27:51) ±Players: Players
    (01:27:51) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:51) ±Role: Penicillin (Illegal Drugs)
    (01:27:51) ±Ability: An antibiotic that has a 50% chance to kill during the day. Turns back into the original role after one turn. Appears as the original role on the role lists. Sided with Illegal Drugs.
    (01:27:51) ±Players: Players
    (01:27:51) *** *********************************************************************** ***
    (01:27:51) ±Role: Penicillium
    (01:27:51) ±Ability: A fungus that can convert another drug into Penicillin to grant it daykills. Illegal and Controlled drugs only have a 50% chance of getting a daykill from conversion. Cannot convert Alcohol, Chemical Buffer, or Urinalysis. Sided with Consumer Drugs.
    (01:27:51) ±Players: 6-30 Players
    (01:27:51) *** *********************************************************************** ***

    (01:27:56) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:56) ±DEA Agent: ghastly's (Urinalysis) test came back positive: Mikee22 is the Meth!
    (01:27:56) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:27:56) +Vongola Decimo: ah
    (01:28:00) +Vongola Decimo: nice and boosted
    (01:28:03) +ghastly: m e t h o d
    (01:28:03) +CanadianPianoMan: 2/3 actually meth
    (01:28:14) +Synortex: yolo it
    (01:28:16) +Violet: lynch me first
    (01:28:18) +Violet: i gtg
    (01:28:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:28:20) ±Current Roles: Caffeine (Sugar-Laced), Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:28:20) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Mikee22, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:28:20) ±Time: Day 3 (Voting)
    (01:28:20) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:28:20) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:28:22) +Vongola Decimo: ,,
    (01:28:23) +ghastly: ask for sla y?
    (01:28:23) +Synortex: ask for a slay
    (01:28:27) +Violet: slay me, please
    (01:28:28) ±Pharmacist: Synortex reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (01:28:30) +Mikee22: I mean y'all are gonna vote me out anyways
    (01:28:30) ±Pharmacist: ghastly reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (01:28:32) ±Pharmacist: CanadianPianoMan reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (01:28:32) ±Pharmacist: Terrible Ivan reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (01:28:37) ±Pharmacist: Vongola Decimo reported Mikee22 as being a harmful substance!
    (01:28:45) +Pichi: Reason for slay?
    (01:28:46) +Synortex: get 2 meth out at once then xD
    (01:28:48) BRODIE joined the channel.

    (01:28:49) +Vongola Decimo: >reason
    (01:28:49) +Violet: need to leave
    (01:28:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:28:50) Times Up! :
    (01:28:50) ±DEA Agent: After 6 reports, Mikee22 (Meth) has been confiscated and quarantined with the other Illegal Drugs!
    (01:28:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:28:50) ±Current Roles: Caffeine (Sugar-Laced), Dexedrine, Insulin, Meth, Penicillium, Urinalysis.
    (01:28:50) ±Current Players: CanadianPianoMan, Synortex, Terrible Ivan, Violet, Vongola Decimo, ghastly.
    (01:28:50) ±Time: Night 4
    (01:28:50) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! :
    (01:28:50) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:28:50) +Vongola Decimo: >gtg
    (01:28:55) +Pichi: oh I'm blind
    (01:28:58) ±Slay: Violet will be slain by Pichi after the phase ends!
    (01:28:59) +Violet: ty
    (01:29:00) +ghastly: >le meme arrow
    (01:29:09) +Vongola Decimo: >wynaut
    (01:29:09) +Pichi: Don't join next game, etc.
    (01:29:21) ***************************************************************************************
    (01:29:21) Times Up! :
    (01:29:21) No one died! :
    (01:29:21) ±Slay: Violet (Meth) was slain by Pichi!
    (01:29:21) ±Pharmacist: The Consumer Drugs (Terrible Ivan, Vongola Decimo, CanadianPianoMan, ghastly and Synortex) worked together and managed to rid the world of dangerous and harmful narcotics!
    (01:29:21) ***************************************************************************************

    Looking at this medium game there is no point to have the Controlled Drugs's action to be revealed as their only action for these medium games is kill.

    Mafia does seem quite UP as both sides only have a kill, you could try adding a mafia protector which can stop x-fires and having a mafia PL as well or a role in one of the mafia sides that has more than one vote. If not then you should give the mafia's chance of day killing back when converted to 100% or lower the village's to 50% as well.

    There is a grammar issue with Hydrocodone (it is the same as the last one I said). It shows that it shares a nightly kill, again I think you mean night kill.

    Have you fixed the windata issue yet? I know it's a new month now so it won't show the last month's windata but last time I saw it shown Illegal drugs and consumer twice as it was like different sides (correct me if I'm wrong) so you should've combined them together.

    I haven't really played much bigger games but I'm guessing the balance is probably better in the bigger games than medium games and small games. I can see that the game has been improving through balance since the changes you made and since the re-test has started - there are just some little tweaks you just need to do and the theme will be looking towards an accept.
     
  22. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Thanks for the input!

    The issues with the windata have been caused by a change of the codenames for the village and the mafia; I didn't know at the time that changing them would mess up the windata so hopefully that will correct itself in time.

    Otherwise, I'm working on the theme as I write this. The main change I'm making is to have Hydrocodone be a shared poison role (to make the night messages more meaningful,) and I'm playing around with the idea of a Mafia PL like Nitro suggested. Also, I'm fixing the typo in Hydrocodone's role info.

    I'll post again once I've finished trimming things up. c:
     
  23. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    (16:11:36) ±Murkrow: Miki Sayaka disabled theme Narcotics.

    Re-test is long over. I'm still not ready to Accept it as it is now. I'd like to chat with you on the server if possible, or at least go over a few more things here, when you return / finish the above mentioned adjustments.
     
  24. Trolls

    Trolls Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    29
    PO Trainer Name:
    Trolls
    Just waiting for more tweaks that are going to be made as you said and we'll see if it's ready for the server yet.
     
  25. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Oh, gosh. I actually updated the theme on the 7th but I must've forgotten to post here in my late-night/early-morning stupor. 3AM will do that to you, I guess.

    Anyways, I updated the theme so that Hydrocodone now has a shared poison as opposed to a shared kill so that the night messages are a bit more meaningful and the two mafias are more diverse. To keep Hydrocodone consistent with Chloroform, it's also immune to team-poisoning. Chemical Buffers can be converted into Penicillin now, as promised, and the typo in Hydrocodone's role info has been fixed.

    I'm still considering the idea of a Mafia PL, but I don't see anywhere in the current spawnlist I could squeeze one in without unbalancing things. My current consideration is making two roles that can PL once every other night and share a kill/poison with the Meth/Hydrocodone role. That way, it'd allow the Mafia to PL without disrupting the current balance of shared kills in the spawnlists, but I'm still not 100% on the idea yet.

    EDIT: I just updated Penicillium's help and info text to reflect the Chemical Buffer change, as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  26. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    563
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fate Testarossa
    All right. Apologies for taking forever to finally review this theme, but here I go. I will warn you now that some of these suggestions may be quite picky.
    Code (text):
    1. "info": "A common medicinal drug test that can expose other drugs during the day. Evades daykills. ~Sided~",
    This is Urinalysis, but I think this should also include somewhere that the user is revealed. Nothing major, just a suggestion for those new to the theme or something along he lines of that.

    Code (text):
    1. "info": "A neutralizing chemical solution that can protect other drugs. Aware of other Chemical Buffers, but cannot protect them. ~Sided~",
    This needs to include what the protect does, and by that I mean basically if it also protects from poison. Maybe it could be edited to say something like
    Code (text):
    1. "info": "A neutralizing chemical solution that can guard (protect + safeguard) other drugs. Aware of other Chemical Buffers, but cannot protect them. ~Sided~",
    I would actually push for this and the reason for that is to clarify if a certain role can claim. For instance, if I was Urinalysis and I checked Chemical Buffer's info, I would be under the impression that it can't protect from poison, so I might choose not to claim until all poisoners are out of the game, when in fact, I could have claimed the first night. Just an example, but hopefully you see the point I'm trying to make.

    Code (text):
    1. "actions": {
    2. "night": {
    3. "inspect": {
    4. "target": "Any",
    5. "priority": 31,
    6. "common": "Self",
    7. "broadcast": "team"
    8. }
    9. },
    This is part of Cocaine's code. Assuming Cocaine gets team-reveal-with-roles (I believe it does), "target": "Any" should be changed to "target": "AnyButTeam" to prevent wasting inspects on confirmed teammates.

    Since this next part is a lot of coding, I am going to use screenshots instead. http://puu.sh/aLAlW/ce6fd8e878.png and http://puu.sh/aLAqZ/f4b1cb5151.png
    For both of these, you have "common": "Role", but since one role is "mafia_sharedpoisoner_a" and the other is "mafia_sharedpoisoner_b", their poison command is actually unshared. Furthermore, the poison from "mafia_sharedpoisoner_b" is NOT broadcasted to the public. I think that should be fixed (either the info is changed to say the poison is NOT shared, or the coding is changed so that the poison is shared between the two roles or the entire team). Hydrocodone and chloroform also need to be told, both in "help" and in "info" that the poison takes 2 nights to kill. Same thing goes for Alcohol, whose poison takes 3 nights to kill.

    Code (text):
    1. "inspect": {
    2. "command": [
    3. "dummy",
    4. "inspect"
    5. ],
    6. "target": "Any",
    7. "priority": 32,
    8. "common": "Self",
    9. "broadcast": "team",
    10. "dummybroadcastmsg": "±DEA Agent: The Controlled Drug activity records show that ~Target~ was inspected by Oxycodone!"
    11. }
    I believe "target": "Any" should be changed to "target": "AnyButTeam" to prevent wasting inspects on teammates they already know...unless this was intentional in hopes that Oxycodone could "clean" a person of that side by inspecting them. I'm really not sure.

    Code (text):
    1. "info": "An addictive opioid painkiller that can inspect at night and kill during the day, but with a small chance of being revealed. Night actions are public. ~Sided~",
    This was taken from Oxycodone. Might as well add 5% into the info for those that are curious. Again, really minor, and it really doesn't matter if you don't add it, since people can always check the code themselves (even though some are too lazy to).

    Penicillin (Sugar-Laced Caffeine) doesn't have any hax in its code, as shown here. http://puu.sh/aLF8e/2633500665.png

    Code (text):
    1. "help": "You are a helpful antibiotic! Too bad you're a harmful Illegal Drug on the inside, because your were unable to fight through the purifying powers of Penicillin! As a result, you don't get a daykill, and you've been stripped of your powers for the rest of the day.",
    This is failed Cannabis. Small grammar nitpick, but 'because your were unable' should be changed to because you were unable. Additionally, for the sake of clarification, you may want to change 'powers' to voting powers. Then again, keeping just powers may also tell them that they can't reveal themselves to anyone the following night.

    http://puu.sh/aLG7Q/fc15bb24c4.png The person with this role is told that they have only lost their voting power, not their ability to reveal themselves to someone during the night, but with the coding in the screenshot, they in fact are unable to reveal themselves to someone (albeit it's only one night, but still). Also, both "role": "killer-conspirator" and "role": "failure-conspirator" need to have "winningSides": ["mafia1", "mafia2"] added.

    Lastly, this is in general for every role that gets converted by Penicillin. With the exception of Insulin, every role that is converted by Penicilin loses access to their night commands and daytime commands. I'm not sure if this was intentional, but I'm not really a fan of that as it severely cripples the role it is converting (even though they gain a daykill). I'd personally prefer it if the convert simply granted them a daykill while keeping their original night and day commands.
    Outside of Urinalysis, village has just about no way of getting any information. Once the Urinalysis is out, it almost seems like it's just a randing game for village with Penicillin being the one to give them daykills. Cannabis is an interesting role, but its problem is if it reveals itself to someone sided with the village, it's all over for them. Maybe they could have an inspect or get hax on the mafia? The mafia also seem to be very weak, especially in the smaller games. Five player setups are 4v1, and even with the miller in, I just don't see that lone mafia winning. I feel like the Caffeine in the 9th spot of the spawn list (roles2) should be replaced with a mafia role. Oddly enough, the only role I see that would fit here in such a small game setup would be Oxycodone (at least it seems like it would work there to make a 5v2v1 setup at 8 and a 6v2v1 setup at 9). For roles3, Hydrocodones alone are way too weak, seeing as their only action is to poison; not only that, but the poison takes 2 nights to kill and is broadcasted to everyone. Roles3 seems very village sided, as it ranges from 7v2v2 to 11v2v2; another mafia role should be added somewhere there. Considering Cocaine is the only role on Illegal Drugs that can kill Alcohol, I might consider making the daykill not reveal at all (or maybe a small reveal chance) because as I said before, all of these mafia appear to be quite weak. With that said, mafia should be able to daykill 100% if they get converted by Penicillin. Having it at 50% just makes it even harder for mafia to win as Penicillin can easily pick off mafias if their converted target doesn't daykill. I wouldn't know how big games would go, but I think roles5 and roles6 are fine as they are. The thing I would suggest the most, as Nitrogen has also said, would be a mafia PL, because Urinalysis is basically invulnerable as long as Chemical Buffer stays alive. Removing Urinalysis's evasion to daykills would be useful as well. I do realize that Cocaine could still daykill it, so maybe you could make it reveal daykillers (like Apollo, Eye, or Pinkie Pie as example roles). There are also quite a few villagers in the spawn as the games get larger. I would suggest possibly adding in a few additional PRs for larger games, as too many villagers can make a theme dry (so to speak). Mafia are pretty desperate for some buffs as well (I promise I won't spam this): a PL, inspect, stalk, one time pierce kill, decent hax on PRs, any of those or whatever else comes to mind. It would be kind of interesting to see Alcohol have 2 daykills if it was converted by Penicillin, especially because it's a solo role and can't be converted by Penicillin. To summarize, mafia are too weak in terms of numbers and power so they need buffs, while village could use a few more PRs to break up the number of villagers in the theme. Penicillin is the shining role of this theme, so keep that as is (I still recommend making mafia have 100% chance to daykill if they are converted, and converted roles shouldn't be stripped of their powers). Cannabis is interesting as well, but it needs a way to find other mafia.
     
  27. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Thanks for the thorough review!

    This is a lot to process, but I like a lot of your suggestions and will be making some more changes to the code. I realize that as of right now, the initial curse status for Penicillin roles DOES carry through one night, so I'm going to do some poking around and see if changing the curseCount to 0 might be a fix for that. If not, I'll just add the commands for each role onto each Penicillin role for the time being.

    I'll make some more tweaks here and there and come back with a list of things I've changed.
     
  28. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Reporting in with Rev. 11.00!

    As per Elijay's suggestions, I've added more detail to the info text of Urinalysis, Chemical Buffer, and Oxycodone and I've fixed the typo in the help text for Cannabis. Cocaine's inspect can't be wasted on teammates now, while Oxycodone can still inspect teammates to "clean" them. The two Hydrocodone roles now share poisons properly, and all poisoning roles have their poison count in both their help and info text now. Oxycodone is also now immune to team-poisoning as well, so it isn't immune to the temporary "cleaning" offered by its teammates poison messages. Cannabis also has a small chance of getting hax on the Mafia during the night to improve its chances.

    I've also introduced two new roles: Heroin and Methadone. (As well as their converted Penicillin roles.)

    Heroin, on the Illegal Drugs, can sedate one person every night. This is essentially a distract, and it has priority over protects/safeguards and, therefore, the ability to stop bodyguards from doing their jobs.

    Methadone, on the Controlled Drugs, can sedate one person every night. This is, again, essentially a distract, and has priority over protects/safeguards. Methadone's distract has priority over Heroin's to give the Controlled Drugs more of an edge over the Illegal Drugs to make up for their public actions and inability to kill.

    For the spawnlists, the distract roles have been added to roles3 and up, with Methadone appearing as early as 11 players and Heroin appearing in games of 21 players or more. Methadone appears earlier than Heroin to give the Controlled Drugs a better chance of winning than before. The lists have also been adjusted in places so that there can be no more than 4 villagers at a time, with the exception of in games over 31 players. This should give more people a chance to play as a fun role instead of just standing about as the villager. I'll be updating the OP sometime soon, but I'm knee-deep in farm work at the moment so it might be a while.

    So, with the introduction of the Mafia PLs, and with the tweaks introduced, feel free to point out any further inconsistencies, typos, imbalances, etc. so I can diddle around with the theme some more. Tell me what you think!
     
  29. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    3
    PO Trainer Name:
    Pandaofazn
    I still feel that a majority of the time, Penicillin will end up attempting to convert roles that aren't on the legal's side. I think that all sides should be able to get converted by Penicillin, with the legal's gaining a buff, and the controlled/illegals getting a nerf? On the other hand, maybe that would end up being too OP for villy and far too UP for the drugs.

    How about a role in villy which has a small % chance to hax who Penicillin is going on. It would help the effectiveness of Penicillin doing what it is supposed to be doing.
     
  30. jahildebra

    jahildebra Starman Jr.

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    PO Trainer Name:
    jahildebra
    Oh lord, it's been a month (and a rather hectic one at that.)

    Pretending like I haven't disappeared at all:
    Looking at the role distribution (let's just say we're in a game with 16 players as an example) there would be 8 village roles and 8 mafia roles, so with Urinalysis revealed there would be an 8/15 chance of converting a non-consumer drug. This WOULD be a problem, but there is a 50% chance of the receiving mafia role getting the debuff as opposed to the buff, meaning that there'd only be a 25% chance of a mafia role benefiting from Penicillium's conversion.

    This sounds balanced to me, but then again this is my first theme, so I'm probably wrong.

    And about the village role that hax's Penicillium: That actually sounds brilliant. I'm not sure how much of an advantage it would grant to the village, but if I introduced that role and removed the 50% chance for mafia roles to get the debuff then that means the mafia would constantly be under the pressure of knowing that if they kill an important village role that the aforementioned village "spotter" could reveal them and put them under the spotlight. This sounds like a wonderfully mafia-ish gameplay element but I'm uncertain as to how it would affect balance.

    I'd like to hear from some other QCs/experienced theme authors before jumping on this (it'd be a shame if I went through and removed all of the debuff code only to realize that it would completely ruin the theme as it stands) and changing what I have.

    Thoughts?
     
  31. Pandaofazn

    Pandaofazn Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    3
    PO Trainer Name:
    Pandaofazn
    In that explanation, yeah, that is pretty balanced. Don't mind me
     
  32. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    967
    Granted this theme a special testing period to make transitioning to the new QC system faster and smoother.
     
  33. Pangaea

    Pangaea resto en peaco

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    46
    Who are the new QC? :0
     
  34. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,096
    Likes Received:
    967
    Me, myself, and I.
    Oh and Veteran Padgett I guess if he wants to tyrant along with me for a few days until we get the new system launched.
     
  35. Cheezeburgar

    Cheezeburgar dankest john

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    578
    PO Trainer Name:
    John
    OK, so I will be giving this theme an official review HELLO : ]

    Let's get it started!

    TECHNICAL STUFF
    First thing's first, I have to check for spelling mistakes, coding errors, etc, all that delicious technical stuff. And I have found...

    No spelling errors!
    No coding errors!
    Clean descriptions of all roles and all sides!
    Clean winmessages, killmessages, and all that good stuff!
    Now as far as "useless information" goes, there are definitely ways that many descriptions can be reworded into shorter lengths, but to still include the same amount of information given originally. For example:
    "help":"You are an addictive opioid that is commonly used for treating severe pain. Help out your fellow Controlled Drugs by inspecting during the night with /inspect [name]. Remember that as a Controlled Drug, your night actions are monitored and made public without revealing you. Due to your dangerous side effects, you can use /kill [name] during the day, but you have a 5% chance of being revealed!",
    can be changed to:
    "help": "You are a rather addictive opioid commonly referred to as a painkiller. You can /inspect during the night and /kill during the day, but you have a 5% chance of revealing yourself!"

    Other than that, all is good!


    CREATIVITY!!

    The fact that you took a concept in real life and morphed it into a theme rather than adapting one from a game or such is quite impressive, and that alone deserves a lot of credit. You took a few uncommon drugs into account when forming the village side of this theme, and that is great. But when it comes to mafia it is the usual drugs, which I agree is hard to derive from, but why not do a little bit of research and include something like Krokodil?

    Secondly, the theme has an overall official/top secret/businessman feel to it. The wording on the drugs mafias seems way to formal. An example to improve this would be instead of saying

    "You are an extremely addictive opioid! Work with your fellow Illegal Drugs to take out the Consumer Drugs and the Controlled Drugs! Due to your analgesic nature, you can use /sedate [name] to sedate one other person during the night, preventing them from acting!",

    say something along the lines of "You are one of the most brutal, addictive and harmful drugs out there. When you get inside someone's system with /sedate, you render them unable to do anything that night due to the wicked hallucinations they were too busy being worried about."

    Overall, this theme deserves a 3 for creativity, but there is a lot of potential within it.

    COHESION!!

    This theme feels rather simple, in a good way. Not too many solo roles, not to many mafias, and a balanced amount of variety within the mafia. It is quite easy to understand not only what the theme itself is playing around, but what the author was thinking while he wrote this theme. That is, until you get to the larger game spawn list. I will get further into this on later criteria, but the spawn list is quite off-putting.

    Anyways, the way you developed the village side is nice. Has an edgy/official tone to itself and roles compliment each other rather well. I do not agree with the tone the mafia has been given though, it is the same conflict as stated above in the "creativity" criteria. I feel it simply does not fit the theme well.

    I don't spot any complications with the characters, other than the two mafia being seemingly identical at first glance. Almost like the bloods and the crips. No complexions here though.

    Will give this a 4 for cohesion.

    CRAFTSMANSHIP!!

    On my first glance at the spawn list, I knew there were somethings that could've been made better. List 3 is rather mafia sided, especially if there are only 11 players in the game. Two millers and not a single villager? That's crazy. Same thing goes with all the other lists. Especially List 1. I wouldn't put millers in before villagers. This practically renders the inspector useless.

    Also, I do not see a point in having more than one conspirator, even in larger games. This could actually even tilt the outcome of the game towards the mafia's side even more, since conspirators side with mafias over village. Same thing with having two daykillers. Two is too many in my opinion, even if they are unaffiliated with each other.

    One more thing, is the amount of bodyguards, especially in list 4. Isn't that just unnecessary? Two is reasonable, but having three, especially in a 16 player game is just a waste of a role since they all share BG's anyway. Could at least make one into a spy or something, something useful.

    Lastly, looking at list 6, I have only one thing on my mind. "Why are there so many freaking PR's and not a single villager until the 27th person?" This baffles my mind. And on top of that, you put the villagers last for every spawn list. This means there will always be minimal amount of villagers in the actual game.

    Before I finish this section, I would just like to say that maybe separating the safeguard and protect roles onto two different characters, and then fixing the spawn lists, would drastically improve village's chances of winning.

    Overall 2 for this section.

    COURSE!!

    So from trying this out on RiceKirby's simulator, and just from reading your summaries and the general code, I seem to be able to follow along quite well. I was tripped up a few times, but that is normal of a new theme (even though this isn't quite new). There aren't too many different types of PR's, mafias, solo roles, and other complicated stuff that is likely to make people have headaches while playing, and that is a great thing. The "plot" is quite easy to understand as well, and did not take that much getting used to. I assume for this theme one can go from complete noob to average player in probably a minimum of two games played.

    Generally, I like what I have seen in this criteria, but as it isn't quite perfect, I will give it a 4.

    CONCEPT!!

    This theme shows how difficult it is to master concepts. I feel like here mafia can just randkill at their will and hope to hit something good. This isn't enjoyable, people want to use strategies and not just rely on "OMG he's targetting him def, so we shud vote him pls lgi." One thing that has come to mind while writing this is having a mafia that inspects as a bodyguard, so he is free to fakeclaim BG especially in big games. Now this would be great, except it would make mafias even better than they are now.

    The Key role for the village is the inspector, and this is clear. So what happens if they get daykilled d1? Game is probably over for the village. Especially when there's two daykillers in the larger games. Village relies too much on this one person, you should make it similar to Ness, whereas if one person dies, another becomes stronger (possibly a mayor, etc). I understand that inspector can daykill, but 5% is just too low for a village daykiller in my opinion. This can either be increased, or moved to a separate character, or kept the same, depending on how the rest of the theme changes.

    The two daykillers are clearly key roles in this theme as well, and they seem quite overpowered at the moment. Maybe village needs a daykiller as well, or maybe everyone should just be a bomb. Lastly, the last key role in this theme is Alcohol. Alcohol can either be a good player and try to win the game by making strategic kills, or they can just randkill and get away with it until they get revealed. I feel as if Alcohol has way too much influence over the game at Spawn List 6 (even though we won't be getting there for a bit).

    To sum up these last three paragraphs, I give this theme a 3 for concept.

    ~CONCLUSION(TL;DR)~

    I feel as if i may have reviewed a bit strictly, but I am definitely confident about all the points I have given. Many changes can be made to make this theme better, and it would be great to see them. The strongest part of this theme was that the overall theme fit into pretty much every aspect of the characters and nothing contradicted anything else. This is essential of all themes, that there isn't one role who claims to be the most powerful/OP and another who claims to be it as well. So for this review I have given a total of.....!!!
    16 (SIXTEEN) (SIEZE) (DIES Y SEIS) etc
    points!!

    Feel free to comment on anything that I've said, or even PM me about your theme. I liked most of what I saw, and look forward to the next reviews of this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  36. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    Review #2!

    Creativity-

    The flavor is one of the strong points of this theme. The text is very well done, and the roles are well-explained while not overbearing. Each of the drugs seems to have a chemically valid reason it's able to the things it does. As far as I can tell, there are no inconsistencies. A lot of the elements flow smoothly together and nothing seems out of place. The text is very technical, giving it the feeling that you're really getting info from a pharmacists, but not so convoluted that you can't tell what's going on. The attention to detail is evident, and adds considerably to the quality of the theme. Overall, the text is exceptionally good.

    A lot of themes on the server are derived from established universes, in which everything already has a role of which things are to be expected of them. It can be challenging to create a new lore out of elements not necessarily connected by an existing story and have it make sense. This theme accomplishes this well. The lore this creates, in which drugs of different legalities are in conflict, is easy to get used to. The concept is creative, and enhanced by the smooth adaption of real world substances into logical mafia roles in reasonable factions.

    Score: 5/5


    Cohesion-

    The elements in this theme logically fit their expected roles. There aren't any roles that shouldn't exist. As I already covered above, there are no apparent inconsistencies either.

    My only concern with cohesion is that there are some roles that apparently overlap. For instance, Meth and Crystal Meth are both on the same side, are chemically similar, and possess the same abilities (a single nightkill). It's not really clear why they both exist or why there abilities are the same if they are different substances. In general, the theme would benefit from higher diversity between roles, especially among those on the same side (there's a lot of repetition).

    However, for the most part the elements mesh well together and the repetition of certain roles doesn't hurt cohesion too much.

    Score : 4/5


    Craftsmanship (Balance, Tactics)-

    Looking a few setups in particular to gage balance and craftsmanship.

    5p -
    This setup is 4v1 with a public expose. Although there is a miller, there is only so much Crystal Meth can do to win this setup.

    Let's look at the odds of Uri winning assuming village plays in their best interests. That means, the Uri claims night 1, Chemical Buffer PMs and protects Uri, and Uri exposes someone other than Chem Buff. Let CMeth's kill be random, unless Uri is not protected because Chem Buff died. Assume Uri exposes the remaining role if it's alive day 2.

    CMeth kills Chem Buff [33%]
    ->Uri exposes Caffeine [33%]
    --->CMeth kills Uri [100%] Village 1:1 rands for 50% win. 5.56%
    --->CMeth kills Caffeine [0%] Village 1:1 rands for 50% win. This is an option in place of the above, both are 50%.
    ->Uri exposes Adderall [33%]
    --->CMeth kills Uri [100%] Village best option is to vote the exposed for 0% win. 0%
    ->Uri exposes CMeth [33%]
    --->CMeth kills Uri [100%] Village best option is to vote the exposed for 100% win. 11.1%

    CMeth kills Caffeine [33%]
    ->Uri exposes Adderall [50%]
    --->CMeth kills Chemical Buffer [100%] Village 1:1 rands for 50% win. 8.33%
    ->Uri exposes CMeth [50%]
    --->CMeth kills Chemical Buffer [50%] Village 1:1 rands for 50% win. 4.17%
    --->CMeth kills Adderall [50%] Village wins 100%. 8.33%

    CMeth kills Adderall [33%]
    ->Uri exposes Caffeine [50%] Village already wins. Uri can wait one more day and confirm the suspect, but village wins 100%. 16.67%
    ->Uri exposes CMeth [50%] Village wins 100%, miller died. 16.67%

    Total win percentage for village is 1/18 + 1/9 + 1/12 + 1/24 + 1/12 + 1/6 + 1/6 = 70.83%
    This is slightly too favored to the village side. The main problem here is that if CMeth kills Adderall, it actually cannot win. This is because CMeth cannot claim anything except villager/miller. It loses by claiming Buffer, and it cannot counter Uri's claim because its expose is broadcast. Unfortunately, this setup does not lend itself to mind-games or tactics, so these percentages will not be affected by player skill, unless it's to the extent that they don't claim Urinalysis or Protect a claimed teammate. Thus, the results will be largely contingent on the random kill night 1. Persuasiveness won't be a factor in many games, as there's only a 36.11% chance it will even come down to a rand.

    6p -
    We go from a very village-favored scenario to a complete reversal. While this setup is much more interesting, it still has issues with balance.

    I won't do a full stats chart this time, but the best option for village is for Uri to claim and get Chem Buff and Penicillium to PM. Pen can empower Chem Buff, while Chem Buff protects Uri. If Chem Buff lives (requiring that Pen lives since curse is low priority), they can get a solid kill off without risking that Meth gets a hold of the boost. Furthermore, this requires the Dexadrine was the role that died, so the Meth are more or less exposed at this point since Uri+Chem+Pen are connected. This is another scenario where the village auto-wins if the mafia hit the miller. However, if Chem Buff dies, the odds are very bad for village. Uri can't provide any useful information in this setup (for the most part), so the village has to successfully rand twice - at 5 and at 3 - in order to win (the first rand being a 2:1 and the second 1:1). This projects a 33% victory for village - very low.

    This setup is thus almost entirely dependent on who dies n1 again. If Pen or Chem dies, the village rands twice in a row. If Dex dies, the village wins 100%. If no one dies, assuming Chem has the Pen power, village wins 100% again. If Pen grants powers randomly, then it there's a chance the mafia wins automatically through killing day 1. If Chem protects Pen, there's a slightly better chance for village to get the daykill, but in this case, Chem getting the daykill or not isn't a big deal, because either way, it's a rand with 2 mafia suspects and 1 village suspect, and this will happen in the vote phase even if the daykill isn't secured. In fact, the daykill is more likely to be a hindrance for the village than an asset. The only way it could help the village is if Pen was a VCLR and had priority over mafia kills. Even if that were the case, this would only help in 3v2 scenarios during the night, which would imply the vote failed. Anyhow, there are not many ways for this be mixed up, since mafia counter-claiming Chem or Pen is not an option.

    Again, the n1 kill decides too much and there isn't room for creative plays.
    10p -
    This is just 6p except with 4 more villagers. While it doesn't have the problem of being mafia biased like 6p, it has many other problems in common. Luck plays a huge factor in this setup. Sugar-laced hax will cost the mafia many games simply out of fortunate conversions and that 8% revealTeam. It isn't overwhelmingly strong, but the fact that it can happen randomly and have such a decisive effect on the game detracts from gameplay. More villagers means it's less likely for Chem Buff to die, and with fewer millers the mafia will be exposed way too easily. 8v2 is simply unviable with this kind of setup. It would be too much work to do a full statistical analysis, but I'd expect them to win less than 10% of games. Perhaps it would benefit by incorporating more mafia sides, and giving the mafia some power to influence the game (other than kill).

    11p -
    Now we're back to mafia bias: 6v3v2. While this setup is better at larger numbers when more villagers are added, here it is overwhelming since the village can easily be outvoted by the first vote phase. Meth is protected by the fact that there are 2 millers, while Hydro+Methadone are in larger numbers and more overwhelming. Because they can PL stall the Meth, they will easily win once the village is subdued. N1 deaths will affect the game severely again, but even with xfire I see the village losing a lot. The only chance they have is by Chem Buff acting as a pseudo-samurai and getting boosts from Pen, but even with this, the chance of villycide will drive them into an ever worse situation. There's also the fact that if either Pen or Chem Buff dies, the upgrade will not be transferred.

    At 5p, the smallest spawn, and at turning point right before or after new lists are introduced, the game is extremely unbalanced. Games may be more balanced at 7 or 8, and at 13, but there are some setups that are completely lopsided. The theme would benefit from integrating more mind-games and tactics, with the public PL and existence of millers are really the only opportunities to take advantage of. There is the ploy that mafia have to explain why they didn't kill if Pen grants them and fails, but that only happens half the time, and can easily be countered by claiming that you didn't want to hit a PR. Many games are decided at once if a certain role dies, leaving the game wanting more tactical game-design.

    Score: 1/5

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)-

    As I sort of covered in the Cohesion section, this theme is easy enough to learn. The roles and sides are straightforward. The only instances it's confusing is when there are roles with the same abilities but different names (Meth/Crystal Meth).

    The death pace is fairly stable, since for the most part mafia can only nightkill. It gets shaken up a bit by Penicillium, for better or for worst. The 50% chance to fail on mafia, which I believe was added for balancing reasons, can hinder the pace. Whether the mafia needs buffing or not, a 50% chance to either give the mafia an extra kill, or on the flip-side, expose the mafia because they could not use the nightkill, will shift the game considerably. While it will not happen in every game, a coin-flip having the potential to create such a decisive factor in any game is problematic.

    As for information, there's an exposer with fairly secure protection, which can expose and clean villagers for the majority of a game's lifespan. While this isn't inherently problematic, it means the mafia rely on millers to stay hidden. There are also no reverse millers or anything that allows villagers (not millers) to be framed. Also, with the exception of the 50% fail chance for Penicillium on Mafia, there's no other way for the village to get consistent information. There is also the random hax. Because villagers but not millers can promote into haxing villagers, mass-claiming becomes more deadly the mafia - even when 4-5 villagers spawn - because by n2 or n3 there is a good chance of adderall to know who they are if the other caffeine(s) have promoted successfully. While this doesn't clean adderall, it can be used to clean the sugar-laced caffeine by process of elimination. This isn't necessarily bad for balance, but it hurts the flow by increasing variance.

    By increasing variance, I mean that if one random event happens, it will have a larger impact on increasing the relevance of luck in the theme. If by a 30% chance, Caffeine becomes Sugar-Laced, not only does it introduce an 8% hax that will influence the game, it also means that the mafia has 1 fewer role they can claim. The impact of random events (Pen failing on mafia, Caffeine converting) can both have large impacts on the flow of the game. Because they're luck-based and can't be controlled or planned, it's detrimental to flow.

    On the plus side, I think entry level players would find this theme appealing because of the extreme safety of Urinalysis, and the twists caused by the aforementioned random events. It's also fairly easy to learn, and there are not too many roles to memorize.

    Score: 3/5

    Concept-

    I will reiterate that the flavor and universe-building in this theme is very well done. However, the gameplay does not build off the established universe as well as it could. My main concerns are:
    • There are many repeated roles, and few unique ones. As village, you can spawn as Caffeine, Insulin, Urinalysis, Penicillium, or Chemical Buffer. That's only 5 unique roles, with the only twists being that you might promote into Sugar-Laced, or that you might expose as Mafia. Both Mafia factions have a designated PL - the only difference is a different name. Crystal Meth and Meth do the same thing, despite being on the same side.
    • There are not many roles to look forward to being. Among the village, Urinalysis is the most interesting role because you get to choose whom to expose, but it doesn't require using a great deal of strategy either. Penicillium is also interesting because because it allows players get to take turns daykilling. Most mafia roles are too straightforward - Meth can only kill, Chloroform can only PL, etc. Alcohol is a powerful solo role that would be fun to play as, but it doesn't spawn for quite a while. Cannabis is perhaps the most interesting role, because it has vote power and wins with multiple mafia factions. That's 4 roles out of 21 (when Alcohol spawns) that I think can looked forward to. The rest are basically cookie cutter.
    • Games will play out with too little variance affected by player skill; what variance there is will be random. I covered this in the above section, but it does matter for concept as well.
    On the plus side, Penicillium introduces an element of chaos which players of any role can look forward to. The theme would benefit from adding more unique roles, or more roles in general, rather than having them repeat the same ones. The Mafia factions could have a more interesting relationship than the division of one poisons and the other one kills. Penicillium can suspect a Mafia role if they fail to use the daykill, and though I've expressed concerns about that dynamic previously, besides this there is a minimality of mind-games.

    The rules are fairly straightforward - but this doesn't make them bad. A theme can be very straightforward and still good, if its gameplay is interesting enough. The concepts are simple: follow Urinalysis' exposes, Protect the leader, and grant Penicillin to village roles. Unlike some other themes, for instance Kirby, it's extremely easy to complete the former two goals because there are no reverse millers or complicated protection system. The only role that distinguishes this theme from others is Penicillium. I can't say the key rules of this theme are particularly exciting. For instance, if people join the game for the sole purpose of getting granted by Pen, the theme is basically defeated in Pen dies n1. This theme would benefit greatly from greater diversity and more compelling gameplay features. Consider giving more mafia roles unique abilities, and creating more distinct village roles.
    Score: 2/5

    Overall: 15/25


    It's evident by the amount of revisions this theme has undergone that you have put a lot of effort into this theme. Although I do not believe it is ready for the server yet, I hope that you will continue to work with it.

    Running Total: 31/50
     
  37. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    129
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fiery Espeon

    Creativity-

    The idea and concept of the theme is very well thought, well versed and is easy to understand. I especially, like the creativity in info msgs/help msgs and the role pairings. Some of the sides/roles are really whimsical, and overall you did a good job of being creative with this. Just because drugs are drugs, people would like to the play the theme just because of the concept, and without the concept, you have achieved great flavor in the theme.
    Score: 5/5

    Cohesion-
    I am going to agree with Miki Sayaka here, that Crystal Meth + Meth being on the same team and basically the same actions does not show cohesion. Why bother to code a totally different role, for the same side and the same action? I guess you could argue it is for flavor wise, but something else could have been done, while still keeping it balanced. For example, regular Meth could be able to "power up" to Crystal Meth, during the 3rd night or something like. And Crystal Meth could have had 2 votes, 20% chance to evade nks, ect, which in turn could have also balanced out another role. I also wish there was something else was going on. It seems the theme is one noted, and could use for a diversity on the types of roles. On the plus side, there are no other big problems, than the ones stated and there are not any inconsistencies to be heard of.

    Score : 3/5


    Craftsmanship (Balance, Tactics)-
    I remember when i was testing the theme, there were some major balance issues. 6 players mainly, as you added another Meth, and replaced something with Penicillin. Penicillin has a 2/3 chance of enabling Meth. Which really is a bad thing. If any single role dies, it will be 3v2. If Meth gives enabled by Penicillin, there is a 1/3 chance of hitting Urinalysis, which would give the win to Meth. the only thing village can try to do is for Urinalysis not to die or to not grant Meth. As there is a lot of miscommunication n1, there is a slim chance of it happening. These problems show up in later spawns too, as 11-15 spawn is also awry, the village has too much control over the mafia, and adding a conspirator doesn't really help it. Although the Cocaine role is helpful to the mafia in this certain spawn, other improvements can be made.
    Score: 1/5

    Course (Learning Curve, Flow)-
    For one thing, I think the help/info msgs are all great. People will have an easier time to memorize the roles/sides of this themes, than a lot of other themes on the server. As Miki Sayaka also mentioned, Crystal Meth + Meth gets a little iffy, and I think Urinalysis's role could be explained better. The theme itself is easy to learn for already existing players, and i think new players will be able to pick it up faster than usual. i would even say it is like Zelda, simple and easy to understand, with a great concept. The few problems were already named, and if they are fixed, the theme would be perfect as a learning tool for new players.

    Score: 4/5

    Concept-
    I have already stated that the idea of the theme itself, is pretty good. However, the problems outlined in my post show that these problems take away from teh theme and concept. I agree with my fellow QC, that roles are repeated onto different sides, and that makes it a bit iffy, Also, I believe in simple roles with a few complex roles to be a great theme. This has simple concepts, such as Meth, Urinalysis, Chemical Buffer. I would have liked to have seen more innovative roles, roles that were complex in order to balance out the simpleness. Penicillin is a big problem for me, as it randomly gives the mafia a huge advantage, or the village minimal advantage. Also, besides the fact that there are drugs in the theme, and it is really creative, nothing else compels me to the theme. Like i said, role innovation was needed.

    Score: 2/5

    Overall: 15/25

    Running Total: 46/75

    I hope you can work on changes, before the last QC members gives the 4th review.
     
  38. Fate Testarossa

    Fate Testarossa Unbreakable Bond

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    563
    PO Trainer Name:
    Fate Testarossa
    "Now it's my turn!" -Jax, Grandmaster at Arms

    Creativity
    A majority of the themes are centered around some kind of video game, while this theme focuses on creating a lore uniquely centered around conflicting drugs. The game messages are quite informative and detailed as well as accurate. Each role's ability or abilities logically match the given information. The game messages are exceptional and the superior flavor of this theme lends it even more credibility. I'm certain making an entire theme revolving solely around drugs wasn't simple considering there was no existing template to base your ideas on (such as the video games that the majority of themes center around), but you've clearly achieved that.
    Score: 5/5

    Cohesion

    A few of the help messages do seem to be a little bit lengthy, but not to the point that people are hindered from completing their actions the first night (although they may cut it close at least until they become accustomed to gameplay). The overall concept of the theme is solid, and I feel that this is in fact a cohesive theme and not a random collection of drugs recklessly thrown together. As Miki said, Meth and Crystal Meth are essentially carbon copies of each other, so one of them either needs to be changed or removed. Regardless, this one minor problem does not significantly detract from the overall theme.
    Score: 4/5

    Craftsmanship

    While I do see you have made a few changes to the theme per some of the suggestions posted earlier in this thread, there are still quite a few balancing issues present. In 5 player setups, the lone Crystal Meth really doesn't stand a chance assuming Urinalysis claims and receives the protection it needs. The miller may allow for a rand at 3 in some cases, but outside of that there's really nothing it can do. Games of 6 are practically coin flips determined by who the mafia kills night 1 or who Penicillium grants night 1 (if they do grant anyone). As the games get larger up to 10, there is a greater chance that the village will win, but the problem is the mafia end up having little chance of winning in games of 9 and 10, as they are 7v2 and 8v2. Even if the mafia were granted a daykill after the first night in these setups, they'd still have a decent chance of losing with the numbers the village has (especially with Urinalysis revealing during the day). Numbers is a problem again in games of 11, this time for village instead of mafia. A 6v3v2 (6v5 in terms of village against mafia) means that mafia will just about always outvote village on the first day, unless Pencillium grants the first night and the recipient daykills a mafia role. In games of 11 to 15, Meth alone is simply far too weak, even with the millers in. It only has a factional kill, whereas the Controlled Drugs have a PL (which they honestly were in great need of having) and broadcasted actions to help them play mind games. Games of 16 (8v8 in terms of village vs mafia) to 20 have the mafia strong enough to last in longer games to the point where village has to rely on Penicillium's granting abilities and subsequent daykills to win; keep in mind that Oxycodone can inspect and daykill with a mere 5% reveal chance. Also be aware that if the granted daykill has been used and Urinalysis reveals a mafia, the other mafia + Cannabis, who alone has a 2.5 vote and wins with any mafia, can easily turn it on the village during the voting phase even if there is a bit of crossfire. Unfortunately, the numbers game only gets worse for village as the amount of players increases to 21 (10v11 in terms of village vs mafia) to 25, which is further compounded by the fact that Cannabis spawns twice. The largest games seem a bit more manageable due to the extra villagers and a third Chemical Buffer. While large games probably won't be played for a while, I did feel the need to address them anyways. Since my main issue with the small and medium sized games is mainly numbers, I would suggest removing a Hydrocodone and replacing it with a Caffeine and changing one of the Meths to a Heroin. Another mafia role could probably added at the 14th or 15th spot, but I personally believe it should be a solo role, yet Alcohol might be a bit strong for games of this size. Heroin should also replace one of the Crystal Meths in games of 16 to 20, as Cocaine's daykill reveals it. The Controlled Drugs are noticeably stronger than the Illegal Drugs as their PL spawns sooner, they have more strength in numbers (in games of 11 through 20), Oxycodone can daykill with a slim 5% reveal chance whereas Cocaine's daykill will always reveal, and their PL (Methadone) has a higher priority than the Illegal Drugs' PL (Heroin). Lastly, as I mentioned before, I still believe that mafia granted daykills by Penicillium should have a 100% chance of being able to successfully daykill as the chance of failure takes away from Penicillium's potential and can make it easier for the village to find the mafia.
    Score: 1/5

    Course

    This theme revolves around how much information the village (and mafia) can obtain through the exposes of Urinalysis, and centering the theme around a single role is best for helping newer players learn and adapt to a theme. One notable problem with this is that if the Urinalysis dies, the game essentially becomes considerably more luck based as the village is forced to rely on the small hax Sugar-Laced Caffeine receives and on the much more riskier daykills granted by Penicillium (if it isn't granted to a mafia role). Since both of these are unreliable, it's all randing for the PRs (who to protect, who to grant a daykill). The village roles are pretty simplistic and easy to learn even for newer players. The mafia roles and abilities may take a bit more time, given the additional information they are given as well as the Controlled Drugs' actions being broadcasted to the public, but it's nothing too overwhelming. The broadcasted actions at the end of the night, coupled with the exposes and daykills can be a bit difficult for players to keep track of (especially for those granted by Penicillium as they need to make sure they don't mistakenly teamkill based off information from exposes during each day). The 50% fail chance for mafias that are granted by Penicillium will slow the pace of the game, more so in smaller games and mainly because the village's only firepower comes from Penicillium.
    Score: 2/5

    Concept

    While Urinalysis makes the game simple for newer players to learn and follow, Penicillium is the shining role of this theme that makes it so exciting. However, that is also the only element of excitement this theme has to offer (at least in terms of the village), which means that a lot of players may lose interest in the theme if Penicillium is killed or lynched. Of course, adding another role that can daykill would be a stretch, as Oxycodone can daykill, and Cocaine can as well if they are bold enough; too many daykillers can detract from the overall theme and turn it into a luck-based randing fest. The village PRs are relatively simple and outside of Penicillium, leave a bit to be desired. Additional PRs with differing abilities (PL, inspect, stalk, watch, hax, evade chance, bombs) will definitely be a valuable asset to the theme; they don't all have to be in the game at once either--consider implementing spawn chances. These will keep the game interesting as the dynamic of the theme will change depending on which roles (and their respective abilities) spawn without overwhelming players with too much to follow. Some of the mafia roles are quite enjoyable and require a bit of thinking to succeed. Oxycodone is probably the strongest mafia role with the ability to inspect and daykill with almost complete impunity. Cannabis is by far the strongest mafia conspirator I've seen, provided it's played properly. Hydrocodone is able to use the fact that its actions are broadcasted to its advantage by playing mind games with the opposing factions.
    Score: 3/5

    Overall: 15/25

    Grand Total: 61/100
     
  39. Duster

    Duster dodgerswin 2018

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    699
    side question, have we checked/should we be checking if the theme author is still interested in maintaining the theme (or is even active on po!)

    if the theme author isn't interested, and no one wants to pick it up, i don't see much point in giving feedback...

    writing a review now, will be posting soon
     
  40. Whereabouts Unknown

    Whereabouts Unknown Absolutely Stunning Forum Moderator Channel Leader Forum Moderator Channel Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    538
    PO Trainer Name:
    Miki Sayaka
    @Duster We have four Reviews, a fifth isn't necessary.

    @jahildebra, your theme has gone through Review, and although it earned a test, it has been tested on the server for the last month as it is. If you can make an argument for why it deserves two weeks more of testing, and how you will improve in based on these reviews, please do so. Otherwise, there is no reason for us to re-review your theme. At the very least, let us know you're still alive.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.