Gengar

Discussion in 'Outdated Ubers Analyses' started by Shadow Sneak, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. Shadow Sneak

    Shadow Sneak came in like

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    Shadow Sneak
    Gengar
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Overview
    -Mega Gengar is a metagame-defining Pokemon
    -Its ability, Shadow Tag, allows Gengar to trap and eliminate threats to your team
    -A 170 Sp Atk and 130 Spd stats are just scary, it reaches 439 Sp Atk with a neutral nature
    -Always struggles get in safely, or evolve safely rather despite it's 3 immunities (Fighting and Normal are uncommon bar Arceus, and Ground but you lose the latter after evolving)
    -Extremely frail on the physical side, base 80 Def and base 60 HP are bad

    [​IMG]
    Offensive
    Gengar (F) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sludge Wave
    - Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Destiny Bond
    - Taunt

    -This one set is a check to several threats in Ubers, depending on what you are trying to trap
    -Sludge Wave is a nightmare to fairies, who are everywhere in Ubers
    -OHKOs Geomancy Xerneas before a boost and 2HKOs cleric variants (252 HP / 252 SpDef)
    -Focus Blast smacks Extreme Killer and Dark types (better to Sludge Wave against Yveltal though)
    -Shadow Ball is secondary STAB, nice for hitting Giratina or Mewtwo much harder, but isn't recommended as Ghost types cannot be trapped
    -Hidden Power Fire is primarily for Scizor who can Pursuit trap Gengar but also deals heavy damage to Ferrothorn and Forretress
    -Taunt pairs well with Shadow Tag, shutting down stall

    [​IMG]
    Perish Trapper
    Gengar (F) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Perish Song
    -Destiny Bond / Shadow Ball
    -Substitute
    -Protect / Taunt

    -An alternative to the offensive trapping set
    -Shadow Tag traps annoying stall mons
    -Perish Song kills both mons on the field off in 3 turns
    -Substitute+Protect can be used in conjunction to stall out the Perish Song turns, and on the last turn you can swap out
    -Taunt could be used over Protect to prevent possible phazing, etc.
    -Max HP since there are no attacking moves

    Other Options
    -There are no other full sets that Gengar could run, and its remaining moves don't serve a big purpose
    -Hypnosis is an option, poor accuracy but is handy to putting an opposing mon to sleep
    -Dazzling Gleam 2HKOs Yveltal, but you really should never attack it with Gengar head on as Sucker Punch OHKOs
    -Icy Wind is great against Landorus-T, Rayquaza, and Deoxys-S leads
    -Disable is a fun move to use but hard to fit on either sets

    Good Partners
    -Yveltal and Gengar are practically best friends, they complement each other in many ways
    -Gengar eliminates annoying stallish mons, Fairy-types, and other Pokemon that give Yveltal trouble
    -Yveltal can take Dark, Ghost, Psychic, and Ground moves for Mega Gengar, all 4 of its weaknesses
    -Yveltal can also form a good TurnTrap core with Mega Gengar, U-Turning on the opponent's switch and trapping them
    -Mega Gengar also works well with offensive partners, or on an offensive team. Most HO teams can't deal with the constant switching of stall, but Gengar can trap one member of the stall core and kill it off
    -It appreciates other VoltTurn users to get it in safely
    -Dragon types who dislike Fairies

    Checks and Counters
    -Countering Gengar is impossible, as it decides what it traps
    -Revenge killing Choice Scarf users are a common way to get rid of Gengar
    -One of the most common checks to Gengar are Pursuit Trappers, but Gengar can carry a move to check all the common ones
    -For Scizor it can use Hidden Power Fire, Tyranitar and other Dark types are smacked by Focus Blast, and the uncommon Pursuit Aegislash is hurt by Shadow Ball. Spiritomb and Skunktank work as well but their niches are pretty small outside of trapping Mega Gengar
    -Mewtwo is another counter, outspeeding before and tieing in speed after the Mega Evolution.
    -Yveltal can switch into a Sludge Wave and smack back with Sucker Punch or Dark Pulse
    -Bulky Ground types can easily take it down post-Evolution, such as Groudon or Landorus-T
    -A lot of the walls Gengar would be trapping could hold a Shed Shell (Blissey, Sylveon)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  2. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Overview
    -With Gengarite introduced, Gengar becomes an annoying Pokemon to deal with (annoying doesn't do it enough justice imo, more like "metagame defining")
    -Shadow Tag abused with Chandelure last gen, with Mega Gengar's stats and typing it is abused even more (worded kinda oddly)
    -A 170 Sp Atk and 130 Spd stats are just scary, it reaches 439 Special Attack with a neutral nature
    -Base 95 Sp Def is great for a Pokemon as offensive as Mega Gengar (when you say great, it makes it sound like MGengar is a SpDef behemoth whereas it's mediocre when you factor in base 60 HP and no EV investment)
    -Always struggles get in safely, or evolve safely rather despite it's 3 immunities (Fighting and Normal are uncommon bar Arceus, and Ground but you lose the latter after evolving)
    -Extremely frail on the physical side, base 80 Def and base 60 HP are bad

    [​IMG]
    Offensive
    Gengar (F) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sludge Wave
    - Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Destiny Bond
    - Taunt

    -This one set is a check to several threats in Ubers, move set depends on what you want to trap
    -Sludge Wave is a nightmare to fairies, who are everywhere in Ubers
    -OHKOs Geomancy Xerneas before a boost and 2HKOs cleric variants (252 HP / 252 SpDef)
    -Focus Blast smacks Extreme Killer and Dark types (better to Sludge Wave against Yveltal though) and Steel types (like Ferro, Heatran)
    -Shadow Ball is secondary STAB, nice for hitting Giratina or Mewtwo much harder, mention how Ghosts can flee MGengar (and thus why Shadow Ball isn't always a great choice on MGengar
    -Hidden Power Fire is really just for Scizor, who is a common check to Mega Gengar (also Ferrothorn and Forretress, though the latter isn't common)
    -Destiny Bond is the Xerneas check, being able to tank a Moonblast (and any other moves bar Psyshock) (weird wording, also +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 239-282 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO, that's WITHOUT rocks so MGengar is a pretty awful check to Xerneas) so yeah just get rid of that line
    -Taunt pairs well with Shadow Tag, shutting down stall

    [​IMG]
    Perish Trapper
    Gengar (F) @ Gengarite
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    -Perish Song
    -Destiny Bond
    -Substitute
    -Protect / Taunt

    -Certainly inferior to the offensive set, but this set has its perks ("certainly inferior is a lie", this set does completely different things -> apples and oranges)
    -Shadow Tag traps annoying stall mons
    -Perish Song kills both mons on the field off in 3 turns
    -Substitute+Protect can be used in conjunction to stall out the Perish Song turns, and on the last turn you can swap out
    -Taunt could be used over Protect to prevent possible phazing, etc.
    -Max HP since there are no attacking moves
    I really like Shadow Ball on this set somewhere (probably slashed next to DBond but I'd like to hear QC's opinions on that)

    Other Options
    -There are no other full sets that Gengar could run, and its remaining moves don't serve a big purpose
    -Hypnosis is an option, poor accuracy but is handy to putting an opposing mon to sleep
    -Dazzling Gleam 2HKOs Yveltal, but you really should never attack it with Gengar head on as Sucker Punch OHKOs
    Icy Wind!: beats Rayquaza, Landorus-T anti-leads Deoxys-S, pretty neat move.
    Disable is fun to mess with the opposing pokemon but hard to fit on either of those sets


    Good Partners
    -Yveltal and Gengar are practically best friends, they complement each other in many ways
    -Gengar eliminates annoying stallish mons, Fairy-types, and other Pokemon that give Yveltal trouble
    -Yveltal can take Dark, Ghost, Psychic, and Ground moves for Mega Gengar, all 4 of its weaknesses
    -Yveltal can also form a good TurnTrap core with Mega Gengar, U-Turning on the opponent's switch and trapping them
    -Mega Gengar also works well with offensive partners, or on an offensive team. Most HO teams can't deal with the constant switching of stall, but Gengar can trap one member of the stall core and kill it off
    -VolTurn in general to get it in
    -Dragons that like Fairy types out of the way


    Checks and Counters
    Countering is impossible because MGengar decides what it'll trap.

    -Taking down Gengar isn't very hard, but doing so without losing one or two Pokemon on your team, is a challenge
    -The most common checks to Gengar are Pursuit Trappers, but Gengar can carry a move to check all the common ones
    -For Scizor it can use Hidden Power Fire, Tyranitar and other Dark types are smacked by Focus Blast, and the uncommon Pursuit Aegislash is hurt by Shadow Ball. Spiritomb and Skuntank actually work consistently but their niches are awfully small outside of trapping Mega Gengar
    -Mewtwo is another check/revengekiller, outspeeding before and tieing in speed after the Mega Evolution, fears Shadow Ball though.
    -Yveltal can switch into a Sludge Wave and smack back with Sucker Punch or Dark Pulse
    -Bulky Ground types can easily take it down post-Evolution, such as Groudon or Landorus-T
    -revenge killing with choice scarf users is one of the most common ways to get rid of it
    not exactly a counter, but some of the really obvious gengar bait mons can opt to run shed shell
     
    Fixed likes this.
  3. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Do you plan on implementing the changes anytime soon? The analysis is poor at the moment and in some parts just plain incorrect.
     
  4. Shadow Sneak

    Shadow Sneak came in like

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    Terribly sorry about the inactivity on this one. I updated based on feedback
     
  5. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Looks much better.

    Review c&c, there are a few contradictions in there since the update

    Mention the one turn lag before gar mevos where he is vulnerable to pursuit trappers in general

    Mention sub in set comments of the offensive set as an option to avoid trappers
     
  6. Dreams

    Dreams Active Member

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    [​IMG]
    (Gengar-Mega) (F) @ Gengarite
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 168 HP / 124 SpD / 216 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Reflect Type
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Rest
    This set probably deserves a mention too
    Gets past Landorus-T, Gliscor, Ferrothorn, Scizor, ResTalk Kyogre, Support Groudon and Tyranitar and some other stuff I might have missed out , Fixed told me about this set a couple months ago but I never got around to posting it here until I saw a thread featuring this
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
    Fixed likes this.