[RBY] Bind / Clamp / Fire Spin / Wrap Ban Vote

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Halsey, Jun 22, 2014.

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What in your your opinion is the best option? (Post why in the thread if you wish to do so)

  1. Ban those moves

    34.4%
  2. Ban the combination of those moves + Agility

    13.1%
  3. Do Nothing

    52.5%
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  1. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom Active Member

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    ZOMG A REASON TO USE BLIZZARD ON CHANSEY

    I DON'T WANT TO USE BLIZZARD ON CHANSEY BAN DRAGONITE

    (I actually do use Blizzard on Chansey for this exact reason; also the chance of winning a freeze war isn't that lopsided as the other Chansey will have to Softboiled first.)

    40.71% between the four of them isn't "rare" in my book. "Uncommon", maybe.

    Dragonite outspeeding something with Thunder Wave actually hurts it if it wants to set up Agility - it will have to Agility twice instead of just once.

    If it chooses to Wrap against something slower without using Agility first, then it's locked into Wrap and a faster Pokemon can switch in and force it out.

    I just showed that said "major damage" is 95% certain to be less than anything with Explosion would do. Do you not have eyes or something? Or do you think Explosion should be banned, too?
     
  2. Dre.

    Dre. Member

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    Tauros is more of a diceroll because it's usually dependent on crits and paraslams to do its job. Those are sub 50% probabilities. whereas dragonite has an 85% chance every turn to do its job. In other words, tauros is much more dependent on luck most of the time than dragonite is.

    As for the 'slow tank' pokemon that dragonite can supposedly set up on, those pokemon would be the rocks, snorlax and possibly eggy if you consider eggy a tank too. Rocks 2HKO and threaten bslam paralysis, lax threatens paralysis and can boom to put nite in KO range of an ice attack, and eggy can either boom or potentially status with either sleep or paralysis.
     
  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom Active Member

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    Lax doesn't need to boom to put Dnite in KO range of an Ice attack, unless you're talking about something dumb like Blizzard Rhydon. Snorlax's Body Slam alone will guarantee a Chansey Ice Beam OHKO and almost guarantee a Tauros Blizzard OHKO (381-448 damage; Dragonite has 385 HP). The only common Ice move that won't KO after a Body Slam would be Snorlax's own Ice Beam (the mono-lax set)... and if Snorlax has Ice Beam, Dragonite will DEFINITELY be in OHKO range from Ice attacks after taking a hit.
     
  4. Jørgen

    Jørgen Sniper

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    Oh is this still a thing? I think wrapping is a super-cheesy strategy and often aggravating to play against, but I'm pretty uncomfortable with banning it. My litmus test for whether something is ban-worthy is determining that it's just too good not to use (by its own merits, not in reaction to something else the way Skarm was used in GSC for a while). Frankly, wrap is not that good, not even Dragonite AgiWrap mega-cheese. Misses are likely, and very costly because all the good wrappers are weak to boltbeam and don't handle paralysis well at all.

    It's hard for me not to find parallels with Sleep Perish Trap in GSC, a similarly cheesy strategy that I have no qualms about being banned. However, Hypnomissy is useful outside of trapping shenanigans and doesn't actually run a whole lot of risk by attempting to score free kills. Thus, even though it's more a sneaky mon than one that's overpowered in a traditional sense (e.g., Snorlax), I'd still be inclined to use it on every team if I didn't care about being honorable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom Active Member

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    The big difference I can see is that GSC HypnoMissy gets safe switches into quite a few things (Miltank, a lot of Laxen, non-HP-Ghost Forretress, non-Dbond Gar, potentially even Machamp) and RBY AgiNite switches into fuck-all besides Mega Drain Egg because Body Slam, Thunder Wave and Blizzard are all everywhere. If Nite had Missy's typing I'd 100% support a ban to Ubers. But it doesn't; it's instead got the worst typing of any OU mon (except possibly Victreebel if you're counting it as OU; even then it's close).
     
  6. Dre.

    Dre. Member

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    It only seems cheezy because the non-wrap sentiment makes it a rare strategy, and rare strategies that drastically differ from the norm always come across as gimmicky. If wrap had been an accepted part of the community the whole time, the meta had been allowed to grow it wouldn't be considered cheezy.

    If anything, explosion is much more gimmicky mechanically, because one turn of prediction/luck can heavily snowball momentum either way in a battle. It's just that no one sees it as gimmicky because it's an accepted part of the meta.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
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  7. Isa

    Isa Well-Known Tauros

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    As per the results of the vote in the poll, Wrap will stay unbanned on Pokémon Online.

    Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion.
     
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