Spiritomb

Discussion in 'Outdated Ubers Analyses' started by C AllStar, May 28, 2014.

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  1. C AllStar

    C AllStar Member

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    Based god Spiritomb
    upload_2014-5-28_15-2-4.jpeg

    Overview:

    -Niche pokemon
    -Great typing giving it crutial immunity to Psychic, Normal and Fighting as well as resistance to Poison
    -Able to trap and kill huge threats like Mega Gengar, Mewtwo and Deoxys-A
    -STAB Foul Play hits the majority of Ubers for decent damage
    -Lackluster defences causing it only able to switch into immunities safely
    -Shallow movepool and low offensive stats making it setup bait for many dangerous sweepers, mainly Xerneas and CM Arceus formes
    -Prone to status and easy to wear down without recovery


    Trapper
    Spiritomb @ Assault Vest
    Trait : Infiltrator
    EVs : 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Pursuit
    - Foul Play
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Sucker Punch


    -Traps every Mega Gengar set except those with the rare Hypnosis
    -Avoids a 2HKO from Mega Gengar even with Shadow Ball's SpDef drop, Sludge Bomb poison or one hit critting.
    -Infiltrator beats Substitute Mega Gengar
    -Pursuit is the most important move on the set, giving it a way to trap Mega Gengar, Non-X Mewtwos and Deoxys-A
    -Foul Play deals major damage to most Ubers thanks to their high attack stat.
    -Checks Extremekiller which cannot OHKO it at +2 and is 2HKOed by the combination of Foul Play and Sucker Punch
    -Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak provides weak but occasionally useful priority
    -Can play mind games with Deoxys-S with Foul Play, Shadow Sneak and Pursuit and limit it to one layer of hazard
    -Max EVs on attack to maximize damage and the rest is put into HP to give it nice mixed bulk

    Other Options:
    -Lackluster movepool gives it little other options
    -Will-O-Wisp, Swagger, Hypnosis, Pain Split, Memento are all interesting support moves that make Spiritomb less of a setup bait but giving up Assualt Vest puts Spiritomb in the 2HKO range of Mega Gengar's Shadow Ball and Mewtwo's Fire Blast
    -Return is a decently-powered move but doesn't serve any extra purpose
    -Nasty Plot and Calm Mind are good boosting moves but simply doesn't work in Ubers

    Good Partners and Synergy:
    -Spiritomb doesn't need much support since it is usually the one providing support
    -Defog support from Arceus formes is nice since Spiritomb is worn down easily without any recovery. In return, Spiritomb traps Mega Gengar which is the biggest threat to Defog Arceus
    -Wish and Cleric support from Clefable, Chansey, Xerneas etc. In return, Spiritomb traps Mega Gengar, allowing them to run item other than Shed Shell

    Checks and Counters:
    -Xerneas doesn't take much from any of Spiritomb's attack and can either OHKO back or set up with Geomancy
    -Any non-SD Arceus formes that isn't weak to Dark can either cripple Spiritomb with status or set up on its face
    -Spiritomb's bulk isn't good even with Assualt Vest and is 2HKOed by most offensive pokemons in Ubers. Most of them need to beware of Foul Play though.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  2. Shadow Sneak

    Shadow Sneak came in like

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    Tbh I love how you turn uncommon mons into nice niches in Ubers its simply epic.

    I don't know what to suggest man it looks like you covered everything but I'll wait for other qc for their input

    keep up the good work :]
     
    C AllStar likes this.
  3. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    QC Rejected 1/3

    This thing's niche is way too restricted. It does do a decent job at trapping those 3 mons and checking Ekiller, but that's literally all it'll ever do. Its stats are awful, its moves are weak as balls except for Foul Play against some mons, its move pool is basically non-existant, it's incredibly prone to status and well it kinda just sucks. There's no reason not to run Tyranitar/Aegislash/Scizor if you want a Pursuit trapper instead of Spiritomb in Ubers.
     
  4. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    252+ Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 306-360 (86.6 - 101.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 251-296 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Spiritomb: 100-118 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 272-324 (104.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    not bad actually, this makes me curious
    u don't check ekiller, but u deal with mmy and mega gar pretty well, which are huge annoyances to stall teams
    imma test it a bit before I reject/accept it
     
  5. C AllStar

    C AllStar Member

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    I disagree. There are currently many pokemon more niche than Spiritomb being considered viable in Ubers. Aegislash basically only counters Xerneas (some varients can even beat it) and loses to everything else. It can trap Mega Gengar with Pursuit but cannot counter Xerneas after doing so, forcing you to carry another Xerneas check if you want to use it as a trapper, thus defeating the whole purpose of using it. Scizor is another niche mon that mostly only checks Xerneas and Extremekiller (not even reliably thanks to the rise of fire moves) and lose to most of the other Ubers. It does have some cool support moves like Defog and Pursuit but it isn't a good user of those moves. For Pursuit, Scizor lacks the switch in opportunity to do it frequently while cannot even do so in front of things it is supposed to check or it will risk being overwhelmed by their boosted attacks. Mega Scizor doesn't trap Mega Gengar well since both Shadow Ball and Focus Blast are 2HKO and Bullet Punch faila to OHKO back. Tyranitar has major issues with Focus Blast even when equipped with Assualt Vest and isn't good this gen in Ubers. Spiritomb is able to deal with any Mega Gengar set even with some occasional hax and the rare substitute, which can screw usual trappers hard. Aside from trapping Mega Gengar, it provides extra benefits of checking Mewtwo, Deoxys-A as well as Extremekiller when hazards or not up. Foul Play's power is underated as even Mega Blaziken, which resists the move, cannot set up in front of it without getting into Shadow Sneak's KO range. Using Spiritomb allows you to have a trapper to Mega Gengar, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A as well as a soft check to Extremekiller all in one slot. It isn't that big of a set up bait thanks to Foul Play dealing major damage to physical attackers. Being status prone is one disadvantage I forget to mention but it is usually used in stall or balance which commonly runs a cleric, making it less an issue. I think that Spiritomb has enough viability in Ubers for an analysis.
     
  6. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    Yes, Aegislash isn't the best mon outside of its niche of countering Fairy types. But it can act as a Dragon type attack sponge, spread Toxic, use King's Shield to annoy physical attackers and act as a check to Mewtwo and Deoxys-A too. So calling Aegislash more niche than Spiritomb is just a lie.

    First off, if you're using Mega Scizor to check Gengar you're going to use a SpDef spread, something along the lines of 252 HP / 56+ Atk / 200 SpDef. This way you avoid the 2HKO by Shadow Ball and/or Focus Blast, whereas Bullet Punch is a 2HKO and Pursuit is a OHKO if switching.
    252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 133-157 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    56+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 127-151 (48.4 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    Also checking Xerneas is such a hugely important niche for every team, and if you can do things like trapping Gengar, checking most Ekiller and Defogging on top of that, you have a niche that's bigger than Spiritomb's

    just lol. I don't know what tier you've been playing but Sand is fantastic in XY Ubers. Also Tyranitar should never ever run Assault Vest, just no.

    I stand by the fact that there's no reason to use Spiritomb, when there's mons out there who are much better than it is at its job. Also Spiritomb isn't even a remotely good check for Ekiller: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 251-296 (82.5 - 97.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

    On top of that you lose to every single other SD Arceus that's out there. You're massive set up fodder for CM mons and Xerneas, status completely fucks you over as well as residual damage as a whole, you have no way to recover and your attacks are piss weak except for Foul Play against some targets. I don't even know why you're talking about Mega Blaziken not being able to set up when it can just do this: 252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Spiritomb: 237-279 (77.9 - 91.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

    I'm still rejecting this.
     
  7. C AllStar

    C AllStar Member

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    Aegislash is pretty much only a sponge and can do nothing back to what it supposed to sponge. Dragon types all have secondary STAB or powerful coverage to demolish it. Palkia often runs Rest to cure from Toxic while Dialga is simply immune to it. Others like Rayquaza and the rare Reshiram just OHKOs with their powerful fire moves. King's shield is heavily prediction reliant and many common physical moves in Ubers doesn't even make contact. It is only a really soft check to Mewtwo and Deoxys-A when Fire Blast and LO Knock Off 2HKOs it respectively while the switch in to Aegislash is pretty predictable (I know prediction shouldn't be used as argument but still...) Spreading Toxic is nice but Aegislash doesn't even get much chance to do so and many Uber teams are well-prepared for status spamming and carry Cleric or Rest mons. It isn't even a reliable Xerneas counter as Sub GeoXern beats it while Physically Defensive RestTalkCM Xern just sets up over it. It is pretty bad to be honest.

    Mega Scizor isn't that good at checking Xerneas and Extremekiller nowadays thanks to the rise in usage of fire moves on those mons in order to beat Mega Scizor (and also Ferrothorn to a certain extent) so Mega Scizor isn't that reliable on its main role. Mega Scizor can run a specially defensive spread to trap Mega Gengar but this isn't even close to reliable thanks to how easy Mega Scizor is to wear down. Mega Scizor can be a Defogger in theory but usually is just bad a that role since there is rarely a chance for it to Defog when so many things can just directly threaten it while it cannot even Defogger safely on the pokes it supposed to check or risks being overwhelmed by them. I am not saying that Mega Scizor is more niche than Spiritomb. I am just comparing both of them as they both have a niche in Ubers as a check to certain top threats. (Extremekiller, Xerneas and sometimes Mega Gengar for Scizor vs Mega Gengar, offensive Mewtwo, Deoxys-A and Extremekiller without hazards)

    I have personally made a sand team in Ubers originally aimed to troll some guy I know. I tried laddering with it but it could never get over 1550. While the reason may be my team just sucks (5-minute team) or I don't really have the patience to ladder much, I just don't think sand is anything fantastic in Ubers. Last gen, Ubers sand is a good but not great playstyle. This generation with the weather nerf, Tyranitar needs to be alive much longer in order to keep sand up. Consider that the most common items on Tyranitar last gen are Focus Sash, Chopple Berry, Lum Berry etc, Tyranitar is usually more efficient at the role of suicide lead (not exactly, but can't find the precise word to describe). Otherwise Tyranitar is easy to wear down and lack switch in opportunites (RockCeus isn't a good defogger for this reason). Excadrill is extremely threatening in sand but keeping up sand and wearing down bulkier pokemons is pretty hard with the remaining 4 slots. Ubers sand has potential but I really won't call it a fantastic playstyle at the moment. Plus, Assault Vest is mentioned only to emphasis that even the bulkiest of Tyranitars cannot reliably Pursuit trap Mega Gengar.

    Yes but Extremekiller still needs LO as item (I use it every time but some teams may not want Arceus to wear down so fast) and rocks (not exactly easy to remove even with Defog Arceus but still comparatively easier than last gen) as well as mid-to-high damage rolls to OHKO Spiritomb. Plus, many Extremekillers now forgo Earthquake for fire moves just to deal with Mega Scizor, making Spiritomb's role easier. Spiritomb may lose to other SD Arceus formes but my point is they can't setup in front of Spiritomb to as +2 Foul Play and Sucker Punch 2HKOs Arceus Formes that doesn't resist dark (no one uses SD Darkceus and Fightceus). Mega Blaziken is mentioned not because Spiritomb can check or counter it, but to say that Mega Blaziken can't use Spiritomb as setup bait when Foul Play deals too much damage to it. It can even survive one Flare Blitz from Mega Blaziken and the recoil damage will bring Mega Blaziken down to the 2HKO range of Foul Play + Shadow Sneak. I am not saying that Spiritomb should be staying on these things but Spiritomb isn't an automatic bait to these things is a huge plus for it.

    Being a set up folder for CM mons and Xerneas is bad but this doesn't completely kills Spiritomb's viability. Spiritomb isn't an one-man army and for example, Clefable, just takes care of every single CM mons and Xerneas. Clefable also provides Heal Bell and Wish support for Spiritomb, allowing it to last longer. Status vulnerability and ease to wear down is a huge letdown for Spiritomb but this is same for Aegislash and also Mega Scizor to a certain extent.

    I never say that Spiritomb is a top tier threat in Ubers and I admit that it just fills a niche in Ubers. I can understand that why you consider that it as unviable in Ubers and its role is certainly restricted in Ubers. However, I think that having a reliable check to Mega Gengar, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A as well as soft check to Extremekiller and Deoxys-S (limiting to one layer of hazards with some prediction) as well as hitting moderately hard to prevent being a massive set up bait is too big of a niche to be neglected. I still stand by my stance that Spiritomb deserves an analysis in Ubers but I respect and your opinion. I hope that you can do some playtests on Spiritomb and probably have some new thoughts on it. Thanks for the rate though.
     
  8. Hack

    Hack Well-Known Member

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    I think it has a little niche, but Skuntank feels cooler as it can defog!

    The problem i feel is that the set itself is kinda unfeasible, assault vest should never be used on stall mons (you want to use this mon as a pursuit trapper for stall obv) as the user loses out on the ability to spread status, heal itself or in some cases phaze. Spiritomb would probably much rather use a set with Rest/WoW/Pursuit/Filler to actually fit in on a stall build. I do think the niche is a bit too small though so I wouldn't exactly recommend an analysis.
     
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  9. Deleted

    Deleted New Member

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    I don't think it's too bad on stall teams actually. You should never underestimate Mega Gengar as it can make some stall pokemon unviable by itself. A good example is Chansey, who should never be used in ubers...unless you run a pursuit trapper like this one that never lets Gengar mega evolve and stay in to start trapping. There could be other lower tier options (not sure) but Spiritomb does the job somewhat better than the more common pursuit trappers. Tyranitar hates Focus Blast. Aegislash is a bad idea since most Gengars carry Shadow Ball and even if they don't you risk Destiny Bond and losing your Xern check. Scizor is better but you have to watch out for Hidden Power Fire, SubPerish and Destiny Bond. Aegislash and Scizor also have their flaws as Xerneas checks.

    It is a niche indeed, but on a full stall team it could very well be worth it to sacrifice a slot for something that handles Gengar 100% of the time. It also helps a bit with Mewtwo and Deoxys which is nice. You should run another Ekiller check though. Also move 4 HP EVs to SpD in order to take less damage from hazards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  10. Raducan

    Raducan Well-Known Member

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    Locking, 'cause the creator is forum banned!
     
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