I'd argue Vaporeon has better overall utility than Alomomola in Water Absorb, not to mention some actual special bulk. Even vaguely powerful special attacks threaten Momo, but Vaporeon can tank those with ease. Not to mention Vaporeon can actually threaten things with its base 110 Special Attack. Alomomola's threatened by literally anything with bulk that isn't weak to its Water STAB, especially if they pack Substitute. Regenerator's great, but Vaporeon's far more versatile, with more switching opportunities to make up for its slightly worse longevity.
I have got a suggestion, stoutland from unranked to ranked. This dog has got niche in uu, even if it is very small, of being a amazing sand abuser. It is useless by itself, but with sand support from hippowdon, it turns into a terrifying sweeper. IMO it should be ranked, even if weather has been nerfed, it manages to get atleast a couple of kills each game.
Ehh, Stoutland is extremely niche. If it should be ranked, I personally wouldn't put it any higher than C-. I also think Entei and Arcanine should be switched. Entei's only real niche over Arcanine is Sacred Fire, which I'll admit is a great move, but Entei's movepool is virtually nonexistent. Arcanine also has better abilities, and is more versatile - it can run defensive and offensive sets.
yey some ppl posted Will adress some of Doom's suggestions because I disagree with a lot of them. Alakazam: Mega zam's bulk was horrid and it was considered broken regardless, why do you even mention zam's bulk, it really doesn't need any. It's the tier's best revenge killer, and LO has absurd power. Weavile leaving the tier only makes it even more of a threat. Also, it has a superb support movepool, A+ is fine for it. Umbreon: One of the best special walls in the whole tier, and not many things can actually set up on it (unlike florges). A+ is probably a bit high, but B+ is way too low. A or A- imo. Mega Aerodactyl: A is probably not high enough for how good this thing is. Most ppl think Hone claws set, but mega aero is a superb user of taunt, and its a good defogger. If anything, it should be A+. Mega Ampharos: Superb defensive typing and stellar Special attack. All it needs is stab moves, and its actually bulky enough to use resttalk. This thing is both hard to kill and powerful, and totally deserving of A rank imo. Spoovo pretty much covered what I wanted to say on vap vs alo. Basically, if you still use phys def vap, you are doing it wrong. Being capable of walling the nido+mega toise core is rly good in this meta. Agree with rosi, very good (and powerful) hazard setter. Also agree with shuckle (for B-), because quite frankly, web isn't all that good in uu. Still a more viable webber than galv imo. Switching Arcanine and Entei: No no no. A pokemon's viability is not dictated by the amount of sets it can run, even more so if some of them are underwhelming. Arcanine's offensive sets face gigantic competition in UU, with Victini, Darmanitan, Infernape and Entei being in the tier. The only set "worth" running on arcanine is the defensive 1 like 95% of the time (doesn't mean it's a bad set). Sacred fire is a pretty godlike move. Burning bulky waters considerably reduces their survivability (and it can force suicune to rest sooner), which puts a LOT of pressure on your opponent's team. Entei is completely fine with sacred fire, espeed and stone edge (it could use a fightning move I guess). Definitely A+ material. Also, I think A- is a bit too high for arcanine, and that it could go B+, but I don't mind all that much. On to Nidomega's suggestion, stoutland is a little hard to rank. It is completely reliant on sand, but with said support, its really good. I'd probably rate it C+, because with the proper support, it's a monster. Would be cool if people could give their opinions on the suggestions I made in my previous post.
My opinion on a couple of these: Tentacruel from B to A-: This should surely rise, has amazing special bulk, being able to wall many special attackers that don't have a stab super effective move, and can set toxic spikes on them. It has great speed tier for a bulky mon, being able to outspeed a lot of mons in stall and spin on them. It can't be set up on either as it gets haze, while acid spray lets it weaken and threaten other specially bulky mons. Liquid ooze is a pretty decent ability too, making grass types like mega sceptile and chesnaught think twice before using giga drain and leech seed respectively. Gets both scald and knock off, two of the best moves in the game. Only negatives I can think of are lack of recovery and poor physical bulk. Tyrantrum from B+ to A- : Agreeing with this one too. Haven't used it much but I have faced banded and nothing that isn't a ground or steel type or chesnaught switches into head smash. Ground types other than hippowdon, donphan and swampert take huge damage if they switch into dragon stab, and steel other than mega aggron, doublade and bronzong don't like earthquake. It has pretty decent physical bulk allowing it to easily switch into physical flying and and fire type moves, like choice locked v-create, and get a free kill. Never seen rock polish but I can imagine it being pretty damn awesome against most of the fast mons and scarfers in the tier, while it also doesn't give a damn about espeed.
Now that regular Metagross has returned, I'd like to propose A Rank. It's very powerful, pretty bulky and it can run a lot of different sets (Stealth Rock, Choice Band, Assault Vest, Mixgross, Agiligross).
A- to A+ Mega Pidgeot is one of the best, if not the best Mega's in UU currently. The ability to spam 100% Hurricanes is truly amazing, as not alot of mons in UU appreciate switching in to it. It also has access to Heat Wave, which helps deal with the Steel resistance on it's flying moves. It can decimate teams with it's Work Up set, and can also be supportive with Defog, U-Turn and Roost for longetivity. Very good mon which should rise. A to A+/S Feraligatr is a monster in UU, and is definitely one of the top threats in the UU metagame. It's DD and Swords Dance sets are both really amazing on destroying balance teams. Can run Ice Punch to deal with Salamence, and with Sheer Force and Life Orb, it can 2HKO practically the whole tier. Defining mon. A+ to S Although it is somewhat outclassed by Salamence, Hydreigon is one of the best if not the best wallbreakers in the tier due to it's sheer power and movepool. It can run variety of sets, and can effectively choose and pick it's checks and counters. Also can give team great momentum with U-Turn. It is really difficult to switch in on this mon, and should rise. (P.S Remove Tornadus-T :)
i cant see dugtrio being lower than b, c is criminally low. i found a new love in building dug offense and holy shit is it aids, it traps and ohkoes the following. victini, entei, tentacruel, empoleon, ampharos, raikou, infernape, cobalion, manectric (it lives an hp ice/grass), klefki, 2hkoes blissey while to can only s-toss, metagross, etc. i was kinda reluctant to post about it just cuz i dont want it used against me but its really, really fucking good. i run banded because the teams i have it on, i have no use for rocks and id rather ensure ohkoes so banded is fine. it does require basic prediction or volt/turn but for the utility it has its completely worth it. reun should be a+ honestly, it sets up on too much of the tier and the lack of knock off now with crawd, weavile, etc gone its become that much more of a threat. it 6-0es stall by itself and if balance doesnt have like a krook or something its gnna rip thru it. support gatr for s because of reasons ive mentioned before in suspect discussions. i could also see hydreigon being s material but not sure yet. mega pidg should be a+, confuse garbage coupled with an extremely solid speed tier and spatk with no guard hurricane is really hard to deal with. and that work up refresh set is savagery.
Moved Tyrantrum from B+ to A-. Incredibly easy to use, CB easily 2hkos most walls, offense struggles vs the rock polish set and it can double as a nice fire check thanks to 4x resist. Moved Tentacruel from B to A- for reasons mentioned above; great support mon with solid typing, access to Tspikes + Rapid Spin, can check multiple special and physical attackers including fighting types and fairies etc. Mega Pidgeot: Spoiler Would support Mega Pidgeot moving to A+. Has access to 100% Hurricane (with 30% confuse rate) + heat wave making it incredibly difficult to wall; the only things that enjoy switching in are dedicated special walls (and Maero), most of which can lose 1v1 with the help of some confusion, has U-Turn to keep momentum fairly easily, out speeds most of the tier barring scarfers + a few megas which gives it an amazing match up vs offense and has a couple of other options with sets like Defog or Work up which can fulfil different roles. Reuniclus: Spoiler Would support Reun moving to A+; became a lot better with Crawdaunt and Weavile leaving the tier, sets up on a ton of pokemon thanks to amazing bulk + recovery, can't be worn down with any form of residual damage which helps it outlast many of it's checks and can run multiple sets with things like trick room and LO making it very potent against all play styles. Feraligatr: Spoiler Don't think I can support Gatr to S; Does have great swords dance and dragon dance sets, but still struggles getting past bulky waters and walls like chesnaught or tangrowth and doesn't have the greatest speed either; at base 78 it still finds itself being out sped by a lot of common offensive mons even after a DD. I also think compared to the other S ranked mons, Gatr is kind of one dimensional; Mence gets a few good offensive + defensive sets and Victini can go mixed, CB or Scarf, where as with Gatr you know what kinda thing it's gonna being doing from team preview, I think somewhere around the A/A+ rank is fine. Hydregion: Spoiler Have trouble supporting Hydregion for S rank too; can be incredibly difficult to wall with mixed sets running Iron Tail or Superpower etc, but struggles slightly with 4mss and can still be walled well enough by special walls, bulky waters like Milotic & Vap or other things like specially defensive Gligar and Avest mons; doesn't have the greatest speed for an offensive mon either, base 98 is just below that 100 mark so it is out sped by a lot of crucial offensive threats, however I do think it's a top mon with a lot of utility and is incredibly easy to fit on teams with mixed and scarfed sets so keeping it A+ is fine imo. Forretress & Swampert: Spoiler Would support Forre moving up from B+ to A-, not sure about pert; both are pretty effective and fairly easy to fit on teams, Forre is a great spinner, can keep momentum and pivot on some powerful physical attackers as well as being able to run a nice custap set and stack hazards for HO. Pert on the other hand isn't quite as versatile, it does do it's job well and is a great fire check but still struggles to wall many threats without recovery and doesn't have the same utility as a mon like Forre, don't think it's just quite A rank material, but still solid enough for somewhere in B/B+. People's thoughts on some of the unranked mons? Haven't had too much time to test Metagross myself but could imagine it fitting in somewhere around the A-B ranks, same goes for Pangoro and Seismitoad; will try to get some more thoughts on these before too long.
Cobalion from C to somewhere in B: C rank is low for this beast. It is one of the best fighting type in the tier. It has a pretty good speed, solid typing and physical bulk which lets it set up at least once per game, magnet rise lets it set up on every ground type in the tier except hippo and lets it wall stuff like mega aero and tyrantrum who have to rely on earthquake as coverage. Speaking of tyrantrum, cobalion is the best offensive switch in for head smash in the tier, and also perhaps the best knock off absorber. It is a good u turn switch in too, and completely walls mega beedrill. Has good utility is stealth rocks, taunt, volt switch (the only fighting type in the tier other then infernape that has a pivoting move I think).
Agree with Cobalion going up to B, while it may be weaker than Lucario and Mienshao it's faster and much bulkier, meaning it's harder to revenge kill. I'd also like to suggest moving Cresselia up to somewhere in B. It's incredibly bulky, and is a great check to dangerous Pokémon like Salamence, all Fighting types and the Nidos. As a testament to its incredible bulk, with the right investment it can avoid a 2HKO from Mega Beedrill's U-turn. It can also be a bulky sweeper with its SubCM set - its better Speed and bulk give it a niche over Reuniclus. Seriously underrated, deserves B rank.
I updated the ones that were the most obvious/less controversial. Moved Forry to A- Moved Mega Pidgeot to A+ Moved Kyurem to B+ Moved Cresselia to B (I still think it deserves higher tbh) Moved Reuniclus to A+ Moved Cobalion to B I'd like to have more opinions on other stuff such as Honchkrow (read my other post, I still think A- is too high), Metagross, Pangoro and Seismitoad.
Alright I've changed a few thangs (altho I doubt any1's gonna care). Feel free to discuss. Porygon2 from B to A: Walls half the goddamn tier. Cresselia from B+ to A: See porygon2. Hippowdon from B to A: Doesn't die much, and one of the most reliable SR setter. Cobalion from B to A- (probs deserve higher): Pretty freaking good mon, 1 of the best offensive sr setter, good stabs/stats. Cofagrigus from B to C+: Lol what is cofag doing in B. Knock off is still a thing and that hurts. Abomasnow from C+ to A-: Theres not a whole lot of (common) stuff that can effectively wall mega snow. Mandibuzz from Unranked to A: Taunt+toxic is pretty deadly, and it's an excellent defogger. Honchkrow from A- to B: Powerful but theres so much stuff that can beat it it's sad. Almost every fightning type outspeeds and KOs. Mega Sceptile from A- to B: It's really not that strong. Also cost opportunity because it takes a mega slot. Mega Houndoom from A- to B+: See sceptile, although it's movepool is arguably better and it can actually break stuff, which is why I'm placing it in B+. Mega Aerodactyl from A to A+: This thing is just superb in the uu meta. 1 of the few good mega pidg checks. Potentially S imo. Feraligatr from A to A+: This could probably be S tbh, it hits stupidly hard and has good coverage with ice punch/crunch. Krookodile from A- to A: Stab Knock off is broken, this could probably be A+ tbh. Doublade from B+ to A: This thing's typing is just awesome in uu. Walls a ton of stuff and hits fairly hard. Mega Sharpedo from B+ to A-: Crunch hits stupidly hard, can even break through suicune if it avoids a burn. Whimsicott from B to A-: Prankster encore is stupidly good in a meta filled with cunes, snorlaxes and cm cress. Also it somewhat checks gatr, mence and hydreigon. Slurpuff from B to A-: This thing is just terrifying. Machamp from B+ to A-: Dynamicpunch+ really good coverage, this thing is extremely annoying to play against. Kyurem from B+ to A-: Yeah this thing hits hard. Also sub roost can be a nightmare to face. Umbreon from A+ to A-: This thing isn't so hot anymore. Basically a special wall that struggles with some of the tier's most common special attackers (Hyd, mega toise, zam and suicune are all examples). It could drop to B+ and I wouldn't mind. Theres probably a couple of stuff that still needs changing but oh well. I didn't discuss the changes much since I'm doing a lot of them, but feel free to post if you disagree with some of them. Edit: Trevenant from B to C-: This thing is bad don't use it.
Honestly can see Mega Pidgeot to S STAB Hurricanes hit stupidly hard, adding in a 30% chance to confuse (which happens often) which kind of limits defensive switchins. 121 Speed is also amazing, outspeeding things like Alakazam and Salamence. Has Heat Wave for coverage, and Sub Work Up sets completely destroy stall. Yes, there is Mega Aero, but it does not appreciate switching into Hurricanes, which can lead to confusions. Best Mega in the tier imo. Edit: Also agree with Feraligatr to S
Yeah, see this thread uptadet would be very nice o.o Agreed with virtually almost everything, Cobalion is more A material instead of A-. Amazing typing, reliable SR setter, i always feels that him rarely suffers from 4MSS, also he's one of the best offensive-oriented checks of Hydreigon, Mega Bee and Snorlax. Although Magnet Rise is a really cool option, i like to use him as a lure against some offensive threats with Shuca or Chople Berry too, and some traits like Taunt + SR, (ofc) Magnet Rise, and Thunder Wave fits very well on him. But get hard-walled by Doublade or Chandelure sucks. Cresselia should be around A- i guess. idk if it's only me, but the presence or Jir itself always hinders Cresselia as a set-up sweeper (something similiar happened whenever i used Reuniclus and he wasn't banned). But of course this isn't a valid aspect to talk about it. Most of the best mons in higher ranks can apply offensive pressure against it, and the lack of a good longevity (8 PPs on Moonlight sucks) makes Cress's life even more harder, it's not uncommon to pressure a lot via U-Turn abusing, encore, beating it 1v1 with Lax, por example. Even with these flaws, i really like to use Cresselia as a defensive glue which can support the team with Lunar Dance, TWave, and gives some useful traits, like a safe switch-in against virtually every moveset of the Nidos and Mence. For other mons, Lucario should be A+ > A. Top set-up sweeper of the tier, regardless if SD or Nasty Plot, flexible coverage, but somehow i feel there are some aspects that hinders him, like Doublade, Mence and Cresselia being really good fits on bulky | balanced builds (but the Reuniclus ban was a huge for him), and he dies just against everything @_@. Stealing momentum vs locked Hydreigon and Jirachi (if Inner Focus) is really cool, though. Jirachi in A > A+ is perfect for me, one of the best support mons of the tier, if not the best. Scarf + good speed tier is pretty convenient with U-Turn, since it resists Stealth Rock, can rk Hydreigon, Mence (if locked on Outrage or Adamant, otherwise 50/50), and the possibility of Trick makes the majority of its defensive resists hesitate against it. Healing Wish also is one of the best supports which a offensive team could wish (no pun intended). Defensive movesets also can run a specific cover move to lure some of it's checks (Moonblast, Grass Knot, Thunderbolt). Also, SubToxic is strong af vs some matchups. Mega Swampert fits well on A+ IMO, especially with Victini's presence on the meta. Cool situational SR setter, and even better attacker under the Rain. 3HKO Celebi with Ice Punch really sucks, but the ability of pressure a lot of squads + Fire-resist | Electric-type immunity makes Swampert even better. Even some walls don't like to switch-in against him (P2 vs M-Swamp in the Rain eventually gets flinched by Waterfall, Cress's Moonlight only recovers 1/4 of its HP). Mega Amphy and Aggron fits in A- better, i mighty try to reasoning them later, i just feel they aren't so useful as they were in XY UU. Shuckle should drop to C i guess... really acts as a defensive setter, and even though he can alleviate some issues like (Webs + SR in 1 slot, Encore or Mental Herb to shut down some hazard control or pressure), he almost always fails to do his job. Klefki could be maybe A- or A, i didn't used it too much to take a solid conclusion, but fast Spikes | TWave, or even Sunny Day and Rain Dance + typing are really cool aspects. Slowking and Heliolisk for A- or B+ looks cool, Porygon-Z | Zoroark | Dugtrio | Galvantula fits better the B-Rank description. Cloyster should drop do C, Weezing is niche but fill some cool roles (Ground-immunity, Fight-resist, Toxic Spikes setter), so it's a cool C mon.
I prettified and reformatted your list, you're welcome! All I have re the placement is IMO Rotom-H is much better than mid B, I'd argue A-. Lemme spend a lot more time playing before I offer more opinions tho.
3 answers in the same day what's going on. Yeah as I said, I'm fine with moving cobalion to A (I just went for the safe play and placed it in A- h3h3). It's just rly good in this meta. Idk about mega pidg in S; it really does only 1 thing. It's insanely good at it, but fitting a decent answer to it on one's team is perfectly doable, I don't think it deserves S. Not sure I can get behind cress in A-, sure it gets voltturned on a lot but throwing t-waves is just insanely good. It's probably best used as pivot/support (cm rest can be hard to deal with tho). The amount of stuff it can check is pretty high and very valuable on a number of archetypes. Luke probably needs to step down from A+. It struggles a fair bit against offense and has annoying 4mss. Ability to go for both sides of the spectrum is pretty scary tho, I'd be fine with it in A. Agree with Mega Aggron in A-, but not amphy. Mega Ampharos is 1 of the very few victini answers in the tier, and it walls mega pidgeot which is incredibly valuable (probably the reason why it's slightly better here than it is in smogon uu). Jirachi to A+ I am fine with, it does a lot of stuff so well it's insane (sub toxic is pure savagery). Mega pert's pretty solid and I also think it deserves A+, its typing and stats are really strong in uu, and it has good utility. Klefki is probably the best spike stacking mon in the meta atm, and it checks a decent amout of stuff. Superb support mon, I think it deserves A. The B-C ranks is pretty much a shitfest right now tbh, but yeah P-Z, Zoro, klef and duggy probably all deserve better. Shuckle is pretty "heh" and probably deserves C+ or something. Heliolisk in D is ridiculous since that mon's pretty good on voltturn. Rotom-c probably deserves B+ or A-. Also slowking should probably be somewhere near A-. If I were to rank galv, it would probably be B or B-, web is fairly match up based and the tier has a good deal of usable defoggers/spinners. Sorry this is in no particular order kek.
I only kind of dabble in UU when I can't get LU or NU battles, but if I can offer some opinions: Tentacruel - A- to like B+ or B. Tenta can be a good mon, but it is beat out as a bulky water by other bulky waters in the tier, is beaten out as a hazard remover by a lot of other pokemon (there are a lot of useful Poison and non grounded Pokemon in the tier to fit on teams that spreading/absorbing T-Spikes or Toxic isn't "that" great, and several choices are better Defog/Spinners). The only niche it has on others like it would be a better speed than most water types, Knock Off access too, and occasionally an ability to surprise with an offensive set because it gets Swords Dance, decent enough speed, and a useful Physical movepool. Looking at the other options, it lacks normal fire power tbh, and a lot of it's ability hinges on Scald burns, also it doesn't like taking hits from many things. I like the octo-squid thing, but I feel A is too high for it. Galvantula - Why is this thing C? It's a pretty decent Pokemon truthfully. Sets Webs and has fairly good special move pool. Also compoundeyes making Thunder have better accuracy? That's a strong shot at getting a Paralysis on an opponent. It won't be KO'ing many things, but it will definitely hinder opposing teams, as well it has moves that can act as answers to "checks/counters" doing a fairly strong damage to them. I think it at least deserves somewhere in the B's, not sure if I could support a high B+, but maybe just B. Amoonguss - I don't see this thing anywhere on the list. I mean I wouldn't mind if you gave it back to us for LU, but it's decent enough as a bulky Grass to spread Spore/Stun Spore, and Poison/Grass is fairly decent. I could see a B- at least for this thing, if you realize it exists. I forgot this thing is currently OU, because whatever reason, so ignore this one. Tornadus-I - I'm pretty sure one of the faster and most versatile Pokemon in the game, deserves better than C+. Sometimes one of those hit or miss Pokemon depending what coverage you go with, but it can hit efficiently, and just be a roadblock for some Pokemon in the tier, won't wallbreak the walls really, but as a mixed attacker or just purely niche with set ups like Rain or Bulk Up, it can be pretty efficient. Switching into it can be a pain if you aren't really prepared for it, or you're just unlucky at burning it if it is mostly physical. Moltres - Where is fire bird on this list? I mean I know rocks can be a bitch to something like it, but it's a god damn phoenix. I mean kind of same boat as some other special attackers because stuff like Blissey or Cune can be annoying, but Phoenix likes to try and at least destroy stuff, and can be a versatile niche that's at least worthy of B- minimum, B+ when you realize you can steadily build around a Moltres to inflict damage, though B+ for me is kind of pushing it since 90 base speed can be a bit annoying, and it's a bit easier to check with common bulky cores. Still destructive man. Those are like 5 things that stuck out to me. I kind of feel a few from B could just be shuffled into B-, and there are like up to maybe 5 more Mons that aren't on the list I think that could find a spot, but for me they are untested really, and I'd rather use them before I actually say much on. I'll list them for others who might have an opinion being: Draglage (the like 1 dragon you left off this list), Plain old Aerodactyl (I mean Mega is supreme, but you can probably find a niche with normal Aero, and it's also a useful fake to punk out people expecting Mega-Aero), Durant (you literally have Cinccino and Ambipom on there, but not the ant, da fuck, where in even if it were to be placed in the C group, is like 1000x better than those two in UU), I don't see METAGROSS on this list right now, and you even said it has some niche, so find it a spot, and that might be it for now, unless something like Hitmonlee can find a niche (just so I can have 5 Pokemon names). But, mostly the 4 before Lee probably have some use in the meta, just I don't use or haven't played enough to actually use them.
okay so I've been using Haxorus, and it's definitely better than B-. I'd wager it should go to B+ or A-. Also Tornadus-I should definitely be higher than C+, B or B+ seems right. Flygon, Virizion, and Qwilfish could probably serve to drop to B- to balance out the list, and because they're all pretty clearly worse than they're compatriots in B.
My opinion on a few of these Tentacruel: I would honestly keep this in A-, offensive tenta is gr8 (seriously, try it). Gets to spin against a decent amount of stuff and knock off is stupid good. A- seems right to me. Galvantula: If I were to rank it, it'd be B-. Really all it does is webs, which isn't a stellar offensive strategy at all and defogging is completely doable in uu. B seems too high. Tornadus: B+ is probs what I'd give this thing, being a staple (and deadly) mon on rain teams. Also has a good deal of excellent support options, which are easy to pull off thanks to Prankster. Also BU sets can be ridiculously hard to stop if they get going. Moltres: The thing with Moltres is that it faces stiff competition as a fire type (UU has a LOT of completely viable fire types). Its main niche would be pressure stall with sub/roost and not spex/lo (or w/e offensive set u want to run). I'm fine with B-. Haxorus: Agree with B+, its what I had suggested some time ago but didnt get much feedback .cri Metagross: B is probably fine for it, has decent coverage, prio and good attack, definitely a threat. Agility+ weakness policy is a fearsome cleaner, too. Flygon: I wouldn't mind throwing this in C tbh, very little reason to use this in uu at all; we have other, better dragons. Virizion: Again, this could drop to C+ and I wouldn't mind; it's fairly niche and sd sets can't even switch in on scald. UU has a lot of better fightning types. Qwilfish: I'd keep this in B tbh, its typing is really good and it gets t-wave which basically makes it a god. Nominating Jellicent from C to B+: Jellicent is a god, spinblocking is neat, taunt allows it to beat a lot of annoying stuff (there isn't a whole lot of stuff in uu that can beat Snorlax and Suicune with ease). Extremely annoying for stall to face, and good bulk+recovery makes Jelli a really good mon in uu. If no1 complains I'll edit these during the week end.
While I like Qwilfish and I definitely wouldn't say that its /bad/ per say; its just that Qwilfish is a bit worse than the rest of B, especially Mega Sceptile, Mega Absol, Klefki, and Kingdra.
Well, a simple solution would be B-, no? It's got defined niches, is perfectly viable in the tier, just held back by a couple of obvious flaws (in Qwilfish's case, a shit BST and no reliable recovery, among other things). IMO, it's clearly too good for C.
I still think Galvantula is a solid B mon. While it looks like all it does is set webs, it also has very useful all around coverage (Compoundeyes Thunder can be annoying), basically it can be pretty threatening to most of the top offensive mons, almost not a threat to the top defensive ones except Cune without boosts really. Though LO can give it a bit of power too. But, B- is fine by me. Support pretty much the rest of the changes too. I'm pretty surprised that at this point, Suicune isn't S rank. It's so dangerously annoying and threatening, you have to have something for it, because if you don't have any way to stop it from boosting up, or purely wallbreaking it, you already lose unless you are playing someone very bad. Also support Jellicent going to B+ meaning @NananaBatman needs to remember to remove it from the C rank it's in. :v I think I'll go test Pangoro or Draglage or Zoroark (once it gets sludge bomb on the server), and see if those deserve some kind of ranking on this list. Batman edit: oops, removed jelli from C :]
So this thread has been dead for 3-ish months, and @NananaBatman can't make it look nice, so I'm going to make some suggestions here. Is Ninjask even worth the C/D rank thing it's in? You banned BP, it can't do a thing worth using. I think Draglagle probably deserves some ranking in the Bs. Specs is a decent wallbreaker for unsuspecting teams, just like the fact you have Tyrantrum in A, it's very unsuspecting and despite the lower speed, it probably deserves something in the Bs for how annoying it can be to Pokemon in general. B or B- as it stands in the tier as it was. Also lack of Jirachi now means one less annoying thing for it to deal with. I was playing UU in the last cycle, and it probably extends to the new one, but is Slurpuff really deserving of A rank? I mean I get that Drum is highly threatening, and will sweep a stall/bulky team with nothing offensive, but like so many things threaten and just rekt it to KO range, it's not even funny. Not to mention some passive mons can use T-Wave to para it, thus ruining what it does. It kind of needs more support than what an A rank needs. If it's there just because of Drum against stall/defensive, technically I could do like the same with something like Poliwrath or Chesnaught. Offensive doesn't have troubles pressuring it. Against balanced it "can" be threatening if you lack an actual attacking move on a defensive mon or one that is weak as hell, but it doesn't set up too well against like 80....90% of the tier. Why is Cune still not S rank? I mean it's pretty damn annoying, and needs almost nothing to do it's job. The worst that stops it is already set up special mons, other CM types if it's not a Roar-er, or Taunt, which should be used more on Pokemon. No Zam will also mean you aren't gonna find a useful Encore user too easily to fit into taking on those Bulky mons as it is. You banned Drought, does Ninetales still warrant a B rank? I mean overall it can be pretty threatening with it's movepool, but its not supporting a whole team structure that's puts massive pressure on teams. I can't really say it's too viable when so many other Fire types do so much more supporting to a team or offensively than Ninetales can do. Is Hoopa not worth using in this tier? I'm just asking because I figured you'd have given it a rank. We freed Smeargle, where is its C rank? #FreeScolipedeThisIsGonnaGetMeBannedByNana This is under edit, because forum is stupid and posted instead of letting me hit return, so I'm going to be adding to this post. K done editing, I probably will try to add more after I find some actually time to play some UU, but weather is being a bit of an ass right now.
I'd agree with cune going to S based on how it plays in the tier and our definition of S ranked. The only gripe I have is that it is clearly not in the same relm of viability or threat level as Victini and Salamence. Suicune needs no support but it is limited in its role and faces competition from other bulky waters that have better move pools. Puffball should drop. Galvantula deserves to be at least A-. There is a lot of hazard removal in the tier, but it beats Tenta, Forre, Emp, Gligar, Mandi, Mence, Crobat and Xatu which is very impressive for a hazard setter. 105 speed is top tier in UU. Sticky webs is such an excellent strategy against offensive teams and Galvantula has the offensive presence to be useful in any matchup. Bug/Electric/Ice hits most of the tier for a 2hko. Compoundeyes thunder is incredibly spammable considering it can kill ground types with energy ball or bug buzz. Galvantula supports wall breakers like victini, Sharpedo, and tyrantrum perfectly. It has an underrated movepool filled with good options and coverage. It fits well with most things in A- and has much larger impact on the tier than any other webber.
lol wtf ppl replied CB ninjask is a threat yes it probs deserves to be unranked entirely Suicune is good, but it's fairly unidimensionnal and quite frankly, there's a lot of stuff that can pressure it. It never performs poorly and u have to prepare for it, but I don't feel like that alone should warrant S rank seeing as it really does 1 or 2 things. Puff can drop to A- or B+, but not lower. Dragon immunity is really good for drum+unburden combo. Ninetales to unranked, no point using this at all. Dragalge to B or B-, not the easiest thing to use but it hits like a truck. Smeargle to C sounds fair I guess, nothing stellar about it. Hoopa is kind of hard to rank because its 1 of those things that either kills everything or does absolutely nothing the whole game. It's still incredibly threatening, I'd give it B+. Galvantula to A- has got to be a joke, there's a ton of good defoggers/spinners in the tier; just because they cannot 1v1 galv doesn't mean its webs are going to stay for very long. Also, webs is incredibly match up based and I'd never use it on a serious team ever; it's only good match up is vs other HO teams. Being the better webber doesn't mean much when web in itself is incredibly subpar.
Slowking deserves to be A/A- rank Been using it for a long moment and this pokemon can accomplish a lot of stuff in UU: Countering Entei, Suicune with CM sets, also being able to take out nidos if invested a bit in spe def. It's a pokemon that I found working quite easily despite the rise of Krook in UU and I think it deserves at least A- Mandibuzz to B It's good but not enough, it needs support, it's very exposed to status and is really not very good in the current UU
k so a few changes, feel free to post if you disagree Mega Blastoise from A+ to A: Probably the best offensive spinner, but Mega toise is just a fairly shaky fire check, its defensive prowess is less than impressive. Mandibuzz from A to B: Sure it's a nice wall, but uu's most common rocker (Cobalion) completely shits on it, meaning getting rid of rocks is a massive chore against a lot of teams. The meta is just really unkind to it. Manectric from A to A-: Tbh I'd rank this even lower, not a lot of niche save for its speed. Crobat from A to B+: Lots of rockers give this thing a lot of trouble, so its job as a defogger isn't always easy. Bulk is also very subpar. Nidoking from A to B+: Hits hard, but has 0 defensive utility compare to Nidoqueen. The only reason you should ever use it over queen is if you want to use a mixed set. Cresselia from A to B+: Yeah this doesn't do anything, complete set up bait for a lot of stuff. Still a decent wall. Mienshao from A to A-: Still good, but faces stiff competition. Florges and mence being evrywhere doesn't help it. Arcanine from A- to B-: There's very little reason to use this over defensive mence. Whimsicott from A- to A: Whim is on almost every offensive team ever. Darmanitan from A- to B+: Extremely powerful, but frail and faces lots of competition. Victini being in the tier doesn't help it. Forretress from A- to B+: Most salamence sets running fire blast kinda ruined the thing's niche as a dragon check. Vaporeon from A- to B: Losing baton pass ruined it's only niche. It's still a very decent mixed wall and can be a bitch to take down. Tyrantrum from A- to B+: Cobalion and Krook being evrywhere is really annoying. Mega Aggron from A- to B+: Massive def, but weak to fire, fightning and ground. Typing less than ideal for its stats. Slowking from B to A-: Huge defensive utility, can beat most Suicunes with cm+Psyshock, and fantastic ability. Pretty good in this meta. Azelf from B to A-: NP azelf is just monstruous. @Aurist can u do ur thing? I tried editing but all I did was fuck up Blastoise rip.
Mega Manectric from A to B+: It literally has one job and it isn't that great at it. Donphan from B to B-: The only choice for a ground type spinner unless you want to delve into lower tiers and I honestly would. Suicune from A+ to S: All of its viable sets can be doubled as fire resist all game into wincon in a tier where fire types are as bad as birdspam. shout out to slowking the new UU overlord
B U M P Mega Aero A+ - S: Aero is a really great mon rn now and with its ability to trap the likes of victini, celebi, mega bee and chandelure on top of its unmatched speed tier+ good typing and its ability to abuse sand because of the spdef boost I feel like Mega aero is a really solid mon in the current UU metagame. Stoutland unranked-B: Choice banded stoutland under the sand is a really scary mon for offense. There's no reason for stoutland to be unranked especially with it having sand rush and the fact that hippowdon is one of the most premier mons there is in the tier. Cobalion A-A+: Cobalion is really good right now. Its typing gives it great offense coverage and its good speed tier allows cobalion to be a scary wall breaker and it can check dragons with its typing and shuca cobalion is a good check to Krook/mega aero, it's also one of, if not the best, offensive stealth rocker in the tier.
Not related to the rankings themselves, but Victini (S) and Darmanitan (B+) both have fucked up sprites.
Gonna respond to the noms Mega Aero: Needless to say, I agree with this nom. Stoutland: This was nominated earlier and tbh its kind if hard to rank since it needs sand support (hippo) to justify its placement on a team. It's really strong once it gets going tho (or atleast it is vs offensive builds). I guess B is a decent starting point. Cobalion: I wouldn't call Cobalion a stallbreaker because it is weak (it can't even ohko freaking empoleon with CC). However, Cobalion is extremely splashable on a lot of builds, being a jack of all trades of some sort. If this was a threatlist Cobalion would probs have a less than stellar rank, but seeing as this is viability rankings, I can get behind this nom.
Hmm. Weird. Maybe my phone was just glitching, since I don't see it anymore. It was a Darm in Victini's spot and a (base) Houndoom in Darm's spot, but now it looks back to normal.
A few noms Nidoqueen from A to A-: Very strong vs balanced builds, but its a pretty shaky fightning check. Struggles to take on strong fightning types such a cb Heracross. Hydreigon from A+ to S: Pretty difficult to work around if you're lacking a fairy, great glue mon for offensive teams. Extremely threatening to fatter builds if it's running taunt, and it's a rly good revenge killer if equipped with a scarf. Feraligatr to A+ to A: Roar cune being more popular really sucks for it. Doesn't really beat stall even with the SD set. Doublade from A to A-: It's a decent fightning check/Snorlax answer, but other than that it's not doing much. Celebi from B+ to A: Amazing support options, hard to kill, potentially hard to deal with if using NP sets, Celebi's just very easy to slap on a team. Porygon-z from C to B or B+: Idk why on earth this was still in C, but p-z's extremely powerful. I'll stop there, feel free to discuss/ask for further explanations if you disagree with some of these.
My suggestions; some of these are more of my personal opinions than others but whatever Hydreigon to S: Super huge threat for fat teams, very helpful to have on an offensive team for its resists and the ability to threaten so much Feraligatr to A or even A-: has a lot of trouble dealing with how common its checks are, and the major 4mss (you need sub to beat CroCune, Ice Punch to beat Whims and other grasses and the Dragons, Crunch to beat Jelly, Aqua Jet to avoid the eazy revenge killers) and it has trouble setting up vs offensive teams and not getting immediately revenge killed Mega Swampert to A: I really never see it do all that much. It's a pretty okay Fire-check, but it gets overwhelmed a lot. The Rain Dance set is a decent sweeper, but without Damp Rock to help support it, it kinda falls flat as a standalone sweeper without a ton of support Mega Beedrill to A+: Everyone knows how cancerous Mega Bee is. Mega Bee is effectively its own playstyle at this point, and a well played Mega Bee is extremely threatening to every playstyle Heracross to A+: Hera's various sets are all extremely threatening to any defensive team, and Hera has just enough bulk and speed to threaten offensive teams pretty well Nidoqueen to B+: I know batman wants to keep Queen above King cuz Queen is generally superior, but Queen really has trouble checking fighting-types now. Machamp bullshits you; Hera does a ton vs something that has no way of healing. At least Nidoking can claim to beat most Stall teams. Doublade to A-: While it does hard wall a lot, it also struggles to provide much utility beyond that. UU is also full of things that either take advantage of it (Cune, Mence) or things that cripple it (Knock off anything) Porygon2 to A-: A lot of the same issues that Doublade has apply here, Knock off is extremely prevalent, and with Fighting-types literally everywhere, Pory has trouble getting off recover enough to avoid being worn down by hazards / statuses Hippowdon to A+: Pretty self-explanitory, Hippo is one of the best team glues in UU and works incredibly well on a lot of different teams Mega Blastoise to A: While it's not great when you use it as a dedicated Fire-check, it hits incredibly hard with a great deal of coverage. Empoleon to A: Another useful mon for many offensive niches, and a pretty decent dragon resist as well. Snorlax to A: While most teams stopped being terribly weak to Curselax, it's still a major threat and a pretty decent check to a lot of mons too Crobat to A-: A pretty decent offensive fighting check, defogger, Momentum gainer, and helpful to add speed to a lot of offensive teams Rhyperior to B- or B: Since a bunch of common electrics have Grass coverage (Leaf Storm, Grass Knot) and bulky waters being everywhere Rhyp really struggles to find a niche in UU. Seismitoad to B-: Suffers from competition with Swampert for a bulky ground / water and the list of bulky waters better than it is pretty long. Normal Sharpedro to B-: Mega Sharpedro is much better, normal Sharpedro has a lot of trouble sweeping without substantial support Dugtrio to B-: Trapping is pwrfl Porygon-Z to C+ or B-: Powerful, but there's a lot of other powerful things in UU with better typing or defensive utility. Celebi to A-: it does pretty well, but the huuuge number of weakness means that its defensive utility is compromised, and suffers from competition from Whims for a utility check, and with Shaymin for a straight up Offensive grass-type. The NP set is quite powerful, and it can act as a decent lure as well.
Nidoqueen shouldn't be seen only from the defensive point of view. It's pretty important to note that Modest Nidoqueen actually hits more harder than Timid Nidoking, and even though Queen is a Fight-resist, that doesn't mean that you /should/ switch-in against opposing Fight-type mons with complete impunity. Queen is essentially, a bulky attacker, not a consistent wall, so it usually will lay rocks | tspikes, and force 1~2 trades, not hard countering, so seeing it mainly in the defensive point of view is a misconception. A- is perfect, it has a couple of plaws, but it you play correctly around, it can be a ideal resource to pressure a lot of common Bulky and Balance cores (for example, a lot of Balanced builds consisted of a core of Florges + Bulky-water + M-Aero are punished by Nidoqueen, and even if the dude has a extra attacker like Hydreigon or Nape, Nidoqueen has the bulk to force trades more often, whereas Nidoking's speed will be useful only against a couple of threats like Chandelure or Toxicroak), and even if the dude has dedicated answers like P2 or Lax, it's pretty easy to keep a consistent 35~40% and force another teammate to keep the offensive tempo. Stoutland should be on the rankings since Hippo is usable (A- or B+ sounds fine), Klefki should be around A or A-, maybe i'm biased, but useful Spikes support + excellent type to act as a emmergency button vs Dragons / Mega Aero / Sharpedo is too good to ignore on this meta. Celebi sounds kinda A- material to me. Yes, i'll not complain about U-Turn | Knock issues, and Scald pros's cons, but the recent ban on Baton Pass really punished him. If you run a defensive variant, it's extremely easy for Mega Aero or Krook to Pursuit you, since Baton Pass isn't usable, and U-Turn will usually force his moveslot. Like i said before, the Baton Pass ban was really incovenient for him, because you need to keep it flexible on your team. If you use him instead of Whimsicott | Shaymin | Regenerator dudes like Tang or Amoonguss you need to consider his performance against certain mons (better perfomance vs Pert, but he's a bulky grass that fails to beat Sharpedo or a well-played Gatr), and you need to set-up or use Leech Seed (Thunder Wave if you have a couple of resources like a phazer or cleric) to check Suicune, so using every single moveslot at his favour is very much difficult, because won't perform every role at a high level (like i said, if you forgo sr to role compression, it's harder to circumvent certain set-up mons that you're supposed to check), and if you set-up with SD or NP to check bulkier threats reliably, or you're gonna use a poor coverage (Grass + EP + Recover which loses momentum vs Dragons, Dual-stab + Recover is poor vs Victini or Doublade) and if you forgo Recover, it'll be easier to get punished by more specific support like Spikes or Pursuit. Still, it doesn't need to be overlooked, NP + 3 moves in special is pretty strong overall, and key resistances are useful for a reason, i see him almost like a jack-off-all-trades, master of none. Mega Sceptile is A | A-, same for regular Swampert (A- should be fine for him, i guess), i would drop Mega Amphy to A-, compared to other megas, it's a bit complicated to make a good mega slot compression, although checking Victini is really good. He's a pretty useful, but usually a lot of other megas provides more functions / resistances / pressure, that i'll be very uncommon to have a legit reason to use him.
With the departure of Mega Manectric, whatever Rotom H is it should probably rise one spot because the competition for its biggest niche just died.