[ORAS] ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Epikhairz, May 24, 2014.

  1. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2013
    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    102
    PO Trainer Name:
    Epikhairz
    All right, great to see some discussion going on :]
    I'm just here with a quick update

    Changes made:

    Alakazam (Mega) - A ----> A+
    Diancie - Unranked ----> B+
    Florges - A ----> A+

    The following are things I feel need more discussion before implemented:

    Mew - S ----> A+
    Scolipede - A ----> A+ ----> S
    Tornadus-T - A- ----> A ----> A+ ----> (S?)
    Ampharos (Mega) - B ----> B+ ----> A-
    Scolipede - A ----> A+ ----> S
    Nidoking - A- ----> A ----> A+
    Aerodactyl (Mega) - B ----> B+ ----> A-
    Mienshao - A ----> A-
    Machamp - B ----> B+
    Forretress - B ----> B+ ----> A-

    So as you can probably tell, there's a lot to talk about, with some big moves potentially about to happen. I'll share my opinions at a later time, but right now I agree with Florges to A+ and both Scolipede and Torn-T going a little higher, as well as Nidoking to A, and Mega Ampharos going higher as well.

    EDIT: Made an executive decision to move Florges to A+ n_n
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  2. Enei

    Enei WAFSTB

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    48
    Mew - S ----> A+
    Agreed
    Scolipede - A ----> A+ ----> S
    Agreed
    Tornadus-T - A- ----> A ----> A+ ----> (S?)
    A+ Seems like a fair sport for Torn-T, it doesn't do as much work as other S pokemon like Zygarde, or Hydreigon, so I think A+ is fair
    Ampharos (Mega) - B ----> B+ ----> A-
    I think B+ is fair for mega Amph, it's not nearly as viable as Snorlax, Umbreon, or Starmie some other A- pokes
    Nidoking - A- ----> A ----> A+
    Fair, nidoking is a great poke and it's moveset and stats allow it to threaten a vast majority of the meta game
    Aerodactyl (Mega) - B ----> B+ ----> A-
    Great hazard setting, can deal a lot of damage and also use defog, which makes it very useful
    Mienshao - A ----> A-
    Mienshit amirite
    Machamp - B ----> B+
    Machamp is fucking annoying but really good
    Forretress - B ----> B+ ----> A-
    Really good physical wall, but most of the S and A+ rank pokemon can destroy it, so A- is good

    Florges
    needs to be S rank imo, it's the tiers premier Special wall, and is what most people are going to use, it can wall a vast majority of the tier and investing it's defense means it can also wall some physical attackers with wish
     
  3. GoodNaturedHax

    GoodNaturedHax New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just a nitpick, but Gligar is listed Twice, in B+ and C.
     
  4. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    6
    PO Trainer Name:
    AmourShipper
    This thread is so dead lol...

    Anyways, something I have been thinking about for a while in regards to this thread is giving Aromatisse a rank.

    This thing is quite an interesting Pokemon. Now at first you might think "lol, this is an inferior Florges, why would I want to use this thing". However, Aromatisse has plenty of advantages over Florges that I feel are most certainly good enough to warrant its use on a team. Firstly is that Aromatisse is more physically bulky than Florges. Florges packs stupidly good special bulk, however, Aromatisse is more physically bulky, and hence it makes more effective use of the resistances the lovely Fairy-typing has to offer. This thing is definitely one of the best Fighting-type answers in the tier, being able to take hits from many of the prominent Fighting-types in UU (except Lucario) and retaliating with a decently strong Moonblast. This also makes it a good answer to Zygarde, Weavile, and many Knock Off users in UU. In fact, Aromatisse is by far, other than Chesnaught, one of the best Knock Off absorbers in the game right now. Of course, this wouldn't be that good if Aromatisse couldn't do anything else, right? Well, Aromatisse, much like Florges, is a very good cleric, being able to provide Wish support and Aromatherapy to support its team, much like Florges. However, compared to Florges, Aromatisse has bigger Wishes which are very nice, and of course it has more physical bulk, with the maximum damage it will take being equivalent to the minimum Florges will ever take from most common physical attacks.

    Another really cool thing about Aromatisse is its ability, Aroma Veil. While Flower Veil is beyond useless on Florges, Aromatisse really appreciates its immunity to Taunt and Encore granted by Aroma Veil. This makes Aromatisse an excellent answer to stallbreaker Mew and Sableye (especially the latter), as it cannot be Taunted and can still pull off its WishTect+Aromatherapy strategy. This makes it hard to disrupt it from pulling off its clerical duties. Of course, Moonblast from 99 Special Attack is pretty solid for a wall, and the Special Attack drop against Special attackers can be really clutch, especially for a wall like Aromatisse.

    In short, I'd probably suggest Aromatisse for B Rank. It's a pretty solid Pokemon, and it definitely has some really cool advantages over Florges that warrant its use on some teams. While Florges is definitely the better Pokemon, Aromatisse has its niches and is most certainly not something to be overlooked.
     
  5. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    45
    PO Trainer Name:
    Mr Snake
    Gligar is both B+ and C+
     
  6. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    506
    PO Trainer Name:
    Insane Soul
    - Removed Mew, Terrakion and Zygarde from S Rank, since they either rose or got banned
    - Removed Scolipede from A Rank, since it got banned (what was it doing there??)
    - Removed Heracross from A Rank, since usage rise
    - Removed Magnezone and Slowbro from A+ Rank, since usage rise
    - Removed Medicham from D Rank, since usage rise
    - Removed Umbreon from A- Rank, since usage rise

    - Added Donphan and Mawile to Unranked, since we’re yet to see what they can do.

    Will read through the last posts in this thread and update with the battling experience from the last bimontly period.

    EDIT:
    - Moved Diancie from B+ to B- (Im probably being generous,,,)
    - Moved Mega Alakazam from A+ to S
    - Moved Nidoking from A- to A
    - Moved Mega Ampharos from B to A-
    - Moved Machamp and Forretress from B to B+

    - Added an Aromatisse entry to B

    - Fixed Banette typo, since it was written as “Bannette”,,

    - Deleted Gligar double from C, since it’s already B+

    - Kept Mega Aerodactyl, Tornadus-T and Mienshao unchanged

    All of this is subject to change over the course of this two months period.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
    somerandomguy likes this.
  7. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    506
    PO Trainer Name:
    Insane Soul
    - Removed Thundurus-T from A+ Rank, due to it being banned

    - Moved Donphan from Unranked to A tier
    - Moved Mawile from Unranked to D tier

    - To add the sprites and give some more coherence to the Rankings, I took the liberty of adding all ORAS megas that are available to use in UU and gave most of them rankings. The others will be left in Unranked, and for that I ask that you suggest where they should stand and why, as well as some pokemon who saw their viability changed with the entrance in ORAS tiering.

    - Added Mega Metagross to S tier
    - Added Mega Sableye, Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade to A+ tier
    - Added Mega Swampert and Mega Diancie to A tier
    - Added Mega Sceptile to A- tier
    - Added Mega Beedrill to B+ tier
    - Added Mega Pidgeot to A tier
    - Added Mega Steelix, Mega Sharpedro, Mega Camerupt, Mega Glalie and Mega Audino to Unranked

     
  8. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2011
    Messages:
    889
    Likes Received:
    506
    PO Trainer Name:
    Insane Soul
    - Moved Mega Steelix from Unranked to B- tier
    - Moved Mega Sharpedro from Unranked to B+ tier
    - Moved Mega Glalie from Unranked to C tier
    - Moved Mega Camerupt from Unranked to C- tier
    - Moved Mega Audino from Unranked to D tier

    - Removed Mega Sabkeye, Mega Gallade and Mega Diancie due to bans
    - Removed Metagross, Sableye, Mega Lopunny and Diancie due to usage in OU

    - Added Mega Pinsir and Terrakion to S tier
    - Added Blissey to A+ tier
    - Added Heracross and Umbreon to A tier
    - Added Infernape to A- tier
    - Added Espeon, Medicham and Togekiss to Unranked, due to having no idea how they will fare, since they were never in Gen 6 UU (at least for a long time, in regular Medicham's case)

    These rankings are getting many more changes today and tomorrow, so if you'd like to give your input, feel free to do so.
     
  9. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,703
    Likes Received:
    890
    Treventant B -> C
    It's really really not that good. Especially with new shit like Nape, Togekiss and Pinsir running around.

    Cresselia C+ -> B
    Extremely fat and reliable. Not a whole lot of stuff threatens it to any extreme degree. It's just Cress as Cress always is and has been. It basically just fears Crawdaunt and that's it.

    Darmanitan A+ -> A-
    A very one-trick-pony. Definitely a potent mon but Victini is often more scary and checks/counters like Rhyperior, def Salamence and def Arcanine exist.
     
    Fuzzysqurl likes this.
  10. Firer

    Firer Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    2
    I wanted to make a pun about how that poor soul gotta do all of this alone, since no one bothers to write something here, but Weavile kinda ruined that for me so let me just add my 2 cents


    I have been toying around with a np, roost, heal bell, air slash togekiss with a very defensive ev spread and its been really effective. Besides being a supreme stallbreaker it also is a fullstop to many threats in the tier like hercross (4x resi to both stabs), every possible salamence set except for iron tail ones, Mega sceptile, serperior, hydreigon, many of these being pokemon that are rather hard to counter

    Furthermore it got alot of utility due to being a cleric and thus not only beats blissey 1v1, but also cures your own hydreigon from paralyzation / your swampert from burn etc

    Another thing to mention is the sheer versality that makes it kinda hard to switch in and I am not talking bout cb hustle here but rather offensive nasty plot with flamethrower or aurasphere, baton pass, twave, or a simple defog set

    While you might want to switch your scarf terrakion into the defensive nasty Plot set, you wanna keep it the hell away from the set spreading twave


    Now I dont want to make it better then it actually is, since it obviously has it flaws like a crucial stealth rock weakness altho the fact that nearly every set runs Roost and that all rapid spinners bar excadrill + tons of good defogger including itself reside in uu kind of aleviates that, it still is hindering.

    Also its kept at bay by Raikou which is most likely going to get more common, because of Mega pinsir, since its immune to twave, resists air slash, outspeds and threatens with super effective stab, as well as the common jirachi, altho the fairly well known combination of dugtrio and togekiss is still a thing, beating most of the afore mentioned counters.

    Anywhay I am probably writing way more then I should for a single pokemon, so let me sum it up to:

    I believe Togekiss should be A+, because it can fullfill a variety of roles very effectively and counters alot of top tier threats
     
  11. OUAzumarill

    OUAzumarill Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    45
    PO Trainer Name:
    Mr Snake
    Medicham is probably somewhere in the C or D rank. It's slow, frail, and both of its STABs are easily walled by Psychic types. It also has way too much competition from Hera, Terrakion, Ape, and other fighting types to have any chance to be more than a niche mon.

    Firer had a pretty solid analysis of Kiss. I would say A if no other reason than the existence of so many powerful physical attackers in the tier, but I'd have no problem with A+ either.

    Espeon could probably go into A- or B+. As a purely offensive poke, it is both out-damaged and outsped by Alakazam (both formes) and the popularity of Defoggers and spinners make its hazard control not very useful either. However, it is probably one of the best CM sweepers in the tier. It has perfect coverage with Psyshock, Dazzling Gleam/HP Fire, and Shadow Ball, and a massive special attack stat and a great 110 speed tier. It also has Morning Sun if you're into that.

    Edit: Also, with the existence of Espeon in the tier, Xatu is now useless
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  12. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    Scrafty and Trevenant need to drop, neither of them are good at all; Scrafty is very underwhelming even at +1, and is not that difficult to stop at all, whereas Trevenant can be annoying, but is really inconsistent and gimmicky. I would say drop them both to D Rank, nobody can really justify either of these Pokemon because the majority of competent teams are not going to face that many issues from neither Scrafty nor Trevenant.

    Drop Ambipom and Shedinja too, the former is complete garbage and Technician + Fake Out is severely overrated, the latter is too gimmicky to have any practical use.
     
  13. Firer

    Firer Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    2
    I agree Trevenant doesn't deserve B-Rank, but I definetly wouldnt give it a D... I'd say it got a niche that justifies C... As much as I love Scrafty I fear it is severly outclassed and thus indeed deserves to be D tier... Ambipom is crap imo and an absoloute noob magnet, no idea why, but I won't comment on him cause I feel like I can't give an objective opinion on him...For Shedinja I'd say that C is absoloutely perfect for it...

    C Rank Pokemon have notable niches in the metagame, but usually require significant support. These Pokemon face competition for their roles from the higher ranked Pokemon, but can find still find use.

    This is a perfect description for Shedinja, and C is already a bad tier imo so I dont think it should drop any further tbh
     
  14. radianthero156

    radianthero156 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    24
    is this updated? are pinsir-mega, terrakion, weavile, crawdaunt all actually UU lol?
     
  15. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    375
    Pinsirite got banned, Terrak, Weavile, and Daunt are indeed UU atm
     
  16. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    Trevenant's proposed niche really is not worth justifying its use; while it can be annoying, it is relatively gimmicky, and most teams will be fully capable of pressuring Trevenant. Gourgeist-Super is better defensively than Trevenant due to better bulk, Synthesis, and Foul Play, which are more useful than Trevenant's gimmicky Harvest sets that lure in Knock Off users like a magnet. Most competent teams will be built to handle Trevenant and its gimmicks without even thinking about it, whereas Gourgeist-Super still has the bulk to switch into common Pokemon. And if I am suggesting that Gourgeist-Super deserves a ranking, I am intending that, for it is much more capable defensively without having to rely on Harvest to exert any form of pressure against the opponent. D Rank is fine for Trevenant.
     
  17. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    Recently ORAS UU caused some changes so I'm going to update the Viability thread.


    Removed:
    Mega Alakazam & Terrakion from S Rank since they're banned.


    New:
    Espeon: ---> Added to B
    (Great speed, nice ability & Stored Power sweeper. Not enough used though)

    Mega Manectric: ---> Added to A+
    (Solid under used Mega who can bring excellent momentum in a offensive team)

    Mamoswine: ---> Added to S Rank
    (Good typing which can set up fast rocks & also be a threat with LO 4 atks. S Rank is well deserved)

    Togekiss: ---> Added to S Rank
    (Rare typing & can serve many roles such as bulky defogger/NP sweeper/BP. S Rank might be too high, but I can easily see him as A+)


    Changes:
    Mega Aggron: A+ ---> A
    (While his defense and typing is pretty good, he has troubles vs a lot of 'higher tier threats'. A should be a fine place for him)

    Infernape: A- ---> A
    (Wall breaking potential in both SD/NP+LO & Sash SR setter. A should be alright)

    Jirachi: A- ---> A
    (Good typing+ability & can have different rules such as SR setter, Choice Scarf with Stabs/U-Turn/Healing Wish. I can definitely see him being A)

    Raikou: B+ ---> A-
    (Fast mon, nice coverage in T-Bolt+HP Ice with the ability to set up. A- should be good)

    Umbreon: A ---> A+
    (Great team support + Stab Foul Play, he also checks the current Meta pretty well so A+ is well deserved)


    I'd like to hear your opinions about these changes.
    I'm also curious to see what you think of many other mons that imo are lower or higher ranked then they should be (like Klefki/Kingdra in A & M Beedrill in B+).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
    E.T., ZoroDark, Isa and 1 other person like this.
  18. Ice Tea

    Ice Tea :^#)

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    191
    I mostly agree with these changes but i disagree with Aggron beeing A- i would prefer if it's A+ it's still one of the best def walls and only because there a new lot of megas doesn't mean it has less potential than before still great deserves A+.
     
  19. Draciel

    Draciel ALLEZ! ALLEZ! ALLEZ!

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    865
    Likes Received:
    1,892
    PO Trainer Name:
    Neo
    The changes look good, although Aggron could probably be in A instead of A-
    Some other changes I'd suggest:

    Mega Beedrill --> B+ to A
    This things hits stupidly hard with it's STABs , and U-turn is an amazing move to grab momentum. High 145 base speed makes it faster than even some of the common scarf mons, like scarf Chandelure. So overall an excellent mon in UU atm.

    Magneton --> C to A- or B+
    Partner in crime with Mega beedrill, making the infamous VoltTurn combo which is so dominant in UU atm. Can trap and dispose steel types like Forretress which Mega Beedrill has trouble dealing with. Specs variants can also handle Crocune sets; so definitely deserves a higher spot in rankings.

    Cresselia -> C+ to B+
    I don't need to say much about this, it just doesn't die.

    Rest look fairly ok to me, although Amoongus and Starmie should be removed.
     
    Ice Tea and Just Do It like this.
  20. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    Nice to see some discussions here. I've edit Espeon to B & M Aggron to A.


    Removed:
    Starmie & Amoongus since both went to OU.


    Other Changes:
    Darmanitan: A+ ---> A
    (Strong Sheer force Flare Blitz hitter with Choice Scarf/LO, but simply outclassed by Victini so A should be fine)

    Mega Beedrill: B+ ---> A
    (As Draciel mentioned: This things hits stupidly hard with it's STABs , and U-turn is an amazing move to grab momentum. High 145 base speed makes it faster than even some of the common scarf mons, like timid scarf Chandelure. So overall an excellent mon in UU atm)

    Magneton: C ---> B
    (Solid Steel Trapper which hits hard with Choice Specs or gain fast momentum with a Scarf. I can see him being atleast Rank B for now)
     
  21. Ice Tea

    Ice Tea :^#)

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2014
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    191
    Kingdra A ---> B
    Lost a lot of usage and viability with Rain banned overall i don't think it's decent enough to deserve to be ranked in A

    Klefki: A ---> B
    Whys that shit A it really has no use in UU i don't think i have much to say about that

    Crobat: A- ---> A+
    Crobat is an amazing fighting/grass check it gives your team such decent support with Defog, gives momentum with u-turn, hits hard af with brave bird and has a great versatility fiting into many roles totally deserves A+

    Mega Aero: B ---> A+
    Do i even have to say something about that it checks hella lot stuff gives great support good late game sweeper with access to a big movepool outpaces almost everything and hits hard like fudge.

    Entei: B ---> A
    Entei is an amazing Pokemon hitting hard as fuck with Band and with his amazing stab Sacred Fire having a chance to burn everything. Acces to Extreme Speed strong prio. With Enteis very high HP it also can fullfill the role as ASsault vest user which makes it bulky as hell. deserves to be at least A
     
    Just Do It likes this.
  22. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    I agree with most, except Crobat & M Aero. Your explanation about Crobat is true so might see him in Rank A but not higher.
    M Aero obviously looks too good to be B, so I can understand why he should move up. I do find A+ a little too high for him in the current meta, so I'll put him with M Beedrill in Rank A for now.

    Changes:

    Kingdra A ---> B

    Klefki: A ---> B

    Crobat: A- ---> A

    Mega Aero: B ---> A

    Entei: B ---> A
     
  23. Yes.

    Yes. melodies of life

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    131
    PO Trainer Name:
    Yes
    [​IMG] Hydreigon S ---> A+

    Its typing allows him to deal pretty well against Dark-type users, can be a great wallbreaker with Mixed Sets or sets with Taunt, and it is very useful with Scarf sets, being a great answer against HP Grass Manectric, specific Dark-type mons, and it can acts as a Fire-type switch-in. But with Togekiss and Florges being outstanding in Balanced teams, and being set-up bait sometimes against Lucario, Weavile, Hawlucha (if running Choice sets, and it usually tends to be locked into Draco Meteor or Dark Pulse), and weakness against Ice Shard (with Weavile and Mamoswine being S-Rank) mons makes him lose a bit of momentum against some offensive teams. A great Pokémon that can fit itself in a great variety of playstyles, trough.

    [​IMG] Hawlucha B+ ---> A+ or S

    A nightmare against offensive teams, i believe. The combo of SD + Unburden is ridiculously strong, and the buff of High Jump Kick reach impressive levels when Hawlucha reaches a +2 Atk. It doesn't likes Fairy- and Flying-types walling him every day, but it can use some common weakness of their checks against Stealth Rock or Substitute to get more opportunities to steamroll through them later.

    [​IMG] Nidoqueen B ---> A

    Great Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes setter, and it benefits very well from its resistances against Fight- and Fairy-types, and it can acts as a Volt Switch immunity. Also, Modest Nidoqueen hits more harder than Timid / Hasty / Naive Nidoking, making her being unique both as a offensive and defensive threat, check very well Lucario without Ice Punch, Mienshao, can pivot though some Electric-types, regains momentum against Florges, and it can use a ton of coverage moves like Thunderbolt, Sludge Wave, Roar, Focus Blast, Taunt, to cover specific threats.

    [​IMG] Krookodile B- ---> A- or A

    A pretty cool Physical Attacker. The combo of Stealth Rock + Taunt help a lot of teams to keep offensive pressure, can Knock Off or Pursuit stuff life Jirachi, Victini (maybe after V-Create), Chandelure, and it works very well with Choice Band / Scarf sets, allowing him to act as a great wallbreaker / late-game cleaner. Also, Intimidate is pretty cool to pivot some hits, and VS immunity helps him even more, and a 92 Base Speed is really great for him, since it allows him to revenge kill more comfortably stuff like Entei, Lucario, Chandelure, and Nidoking.

    [​IMG] Blissey A+ ---> A-

    One of the best Specials Walls of the tier, capable of checking a lot of threats like Nidoqueen, Blastoise, Ampharos, but it is also too passive. Physical wallbreakers / set-up sweepers like Lucario, Crawdaunt, Heracross, and Victini can steal all momentum against it, and even some threats can lure it. SubCM Chandelure, Mixed Hydreigon and Nidoking, and even through it checks electric-types, most of them can maintain the momentum thanks to Volt Switch. For that reasons, i believe that Blissey is a bit biased, and it deserves a lower ranking.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon C ---> A-

    Almost good as Umbreon, Blissey and Florges as a Cleric and Wall, but it have some great niches. Water-type immunity allows to him to switch-in against Scald users, limitating Suicune and Blastoise. Fire-type resists is pretty useful for Vaporeon, so he can be a useful answer against Darmanitan, and it can use Baton Pass to keep momentum up, so it won't be too passive. Its bulk allows him to check threats like Victini, Hydreigon, Infernape, Darmanitan, and some Rain abusers.

    [​IMG] Whimsicott C ---> B+ or B

    ~Outclassed~ by Togekiss when comes to its Fairy typing since it doesn't switch-in very well against Fight-type mons like Mienshao or Heracross, but it serves as a great pivot with Encore + U-Turn, allowing Whimsicott to check, and serve as a great emmergency button against threats like Hydreigon, Salamence, Suicune, and Crawdaunt, and Absol. Again, U-Turn ensures that Whimsicott won't lose momentum against these threats, and 116 Speed Tier is pretty useful to scout mons like Raikou and Azelf. But aside momentum and pivoting, Whimsicott can't do very much in return, and it's usually useless against Jirachi, Fire-type Pokémon, Crobat, and other threats in the tier.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
    Just Do It likes this.
  24. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    Great activity!

    I could see Hydreigon dropping to A+ for now mainly because of Togekiss & Mamoswine who're also dominating the tier.
    On Hawlucha I think you're overestimating him a little bit. While it's true that a setup + unburden can be deadly, there are still plenty of offensive/defensive mons who can take a +2 Acro/Hjk and ohko him back. I'm fine with him going to A- mainly because he can clean up late games.
    Nidoqueen is much better in the current meta, forcing Togekiss out of defogging/para flinching & also stopping M Manectric's VoltTurn rampage so I'll gladly move her up to A next to Nidoking.
    About Krookodile. SR+Taunt is fun to use, while most enjoy him giving a Scarf/Band to revenge/trap mons. I'm not really convinced on him moving to A, but I might bring him to A- since you also suggested that.
    Blissey from A+ ---> A- , Vaporeon from C ---> A- & Whimsicott from C ---> B: I definitely agree on all 3 getting those new rankings based on your explanations.

    I've made these changes, thanks for putting some effort into this guys!
     
    Yes. likes this.
  25. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    6
    PO Trainer Name:
    AmourShipper
    Going to suggest Slurpuff to rise from C- to somewhere in the B Ranks

    Slurpuff has shaped up to become a much better Pokemon lately. While it's not as good as a general Fairy as Togekiss, Slurpuff is definitely a really good Pokemon for serving as a win condition in this metagame. Once you get rid of Doublade, Bronzong, and the like, Slurpuff becomes a nigh unstoppable force after you set up Unburden and Belly Drum, outpacing much of the metagame and using its power to just OHKO anything. Slurpuff's access to Drain Punch in ORAS helps it substantially, allowing it to heal off of the damage it sustained from setting up Belly Drum. It also allows it to get around weakened Mega Aggron and the like much more easily. More importantly, Slurpuff's amazing Fairy-typing allows it to check Hydreigon, Salamence, Heracross, and more to a decent degree which helps a lot.

    Slurpuff is overall a very effective sweeper, though I don't think it should go much higher than B or B+ because it only has one chance to sweep per battle and it has a bit of trouble setting up, but it has a decent amount of defensive utility and sweeps very effectively which makes it super useful.

    Tyrantrum should be added somewhere. With Rock Head and Head Smash it's become a whole lot more brutal as a wallbreaker lately, and it checks Crobat too. Its Head Smash and Outrage make it a practical bone crusher, so yeah. Needs a rank imo, probably in the B Ranks if not up there in A-.
     
  26. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    110
    I don't think Blissey should be in A personally. It can't do any damage at all outside Seismic Toss, and the lack of Taunt/Encore/phazing means there's not much it can do to prevent itself becoming set up fodder. And being so passive, it kills all your momentum as soon as you switch it in. Personally I prefer to use Florges if I need a cleric.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2015
  27. snaga

    snaga .

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    633
    PO Trainer Name:
    snaga
    Mew didn't drop..
     
  28. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    110
    My bad, disregard that bit.
     
  29. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    I haven't looked at Slurpuff, but you're definitely right that he deserves a higher ranking based on your explanation.
    Tyrantrum does check some main defoggers in the current meta & has also the ability to break some supports so I'll add him in the list.

    Changes:
    Slurpuff: C- ---> B
    Tyrantrum: Unranked ---> B+

    Removed:
    Crawdaunt from S ranking since he has been banned.

    Feraligatr is also not listed, so I'm curious to know your opinions on where to list him since I could see him rise after the loss of Crawdaunt.
     
  30. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    Gatr... has more overall power than Crawdaunt due to Sheer Force, more Speed, more bulk and a better movepool, with great typing to boot. I can see it in the high Bs easily, if not A. Knock Off is significant, but the only real loss.
     
  31. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    566
    Just a few changes I'd like to get opinions on.

    Donphan from A to B or B- : Doesn't check a whole lot of stuff (pure ground typing gives it very few resists), awful special bulk. In a tier filled with bulky waters, it really struggles to keep rocks on the field (or spinning). There are better options if you're looking for hazard control.

    Rhyperior from A to B+: Somewhat reliable rocker and it does check some relevant stuff, but a lot of common pokemon in the meta can force it out easily. Can't see it being as viable as the other A mons.

    Mega Abomasnow from C to somewhere in B: This thing might be slow, but it can be ridiculously difficult to switch into. STABs+EQ hits a lot of stuff for good damage. Bulk is also pretty good, so it's not exactly a glass cannon either.

    Mega Pidgeot from B to A or A-: No guard hurricane is extremely spammable, can act as a really good stallbreaker with work up+refresh. Fairly predictable, but really good at what it does.

    Entei from A- to A+: Sacred fire is just such a bitch, turning 3KOs into 2KOs and crippling stuff. Access to extremespeed means it doubles as a revenge killer. CB hits really hard, and AV has surprising survivability, entei's just 1 of UU's top mons atm.
     
  32. Weavile

    Weavile Phoenix

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,703
    Likes Received:
    890
    Hype.
    First of I agree with all of Batman's suggestions.

    Mence:
    I would honestly put this to S, despite the Mamo and Weavile presence it still performs excellently time and time again. As a bulky stall mon, as a DDer or as a Scarfer it's honestly just amazing.

    Darm:
    I would move Darm down to A- , it's a great Pokémon but it lives in the shadow of Victini in many ways and lacks Victini's unpredictable factor. It can sure break through a whole lot of shit though.

    Ampharos (M):
    Ampharos is really super great. It has cool resistances, great special bulk and a ridiculous strong Tbolt behind it, along with all the movepool and coverage it could long for. I would put this in A.

    Entei:
    I'd move this to A+, it lacks the raw power of Darm's Sheer Force Flare Blitz but Sacred Fire makes it extremely hard to deal with, things like Rhyperior just don't work 50% of the time because Entei said so.

    Edit: Didn't notice this was already in Batman's post ayyy

    Tornadus-T:
    I'd move this up to A or even A+, AV torn never dies, it takes so many hits and can knock off entire teams before it comes close to being slain. It's just a really great utility mon with an excellent ability, movepool and speed tier.

    Chesnaught:
    Its resistances are so good and its ability makes it not lose to Roserade. It's a great spiker and a great wall, even if it lost its Crawdaunt related fame. A- at least imo.

    Cress:
    Somewhere not C+
     
    JoyFrost, E.T. and NananaBatman like this.
  33. Yes.

    Yes. melodies of life

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    131
    PO Trainer Name:
    Yes
    I believe that A or A- Rank is pretty ok for Feraligatr. He can variate himself in Dragon Dance or Swords Dance, depending of the team wants, and it gets both solid functions as wallbreaker / cleaner, also, Substitute is a GREAT answer to deal with Bulky-waters that doesn't run Roar. He finds a bit of difficulty making set-up thanks to VoltTurn teams with Mega Manectric / Whimsicott, and Scarfers like Chandelure / Victini / Mienshao even being terrible switch-ins, they are great rkillers against Feraligatr. Even with these flaws, i believe that Feraligatr shines against Balanced teams, since he gets a plenty of opportunities to set-up SD / DD / Subs against specific defensive mons found in Balanced teams, like Forretress, Bulky-grounds, and Vaporeon.

    I agree too with Entei / Torn-T rising to A+ Rank with similiar reasons of the posts above, or maybe A Rank for Entei, bc Band Victini tends to outclass it as a Fire-type wallbreaker since it lacks immediate momentum with U-Turn + coverage (and it is forced to run Adamant), but compensates it with a GREAT priority in ESpeed and bs hax burn, forcing stuff like Vaporeon and Alomomola recover themselves and lose momentum, especially with hazards support.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  34. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    Seeing as I agree with most of the changes that should take place, I'll edit it!

    Changes
    Ampharos (M): A- ---> A
    Blissey: A ---> B
    Darmanitan: A ---> A-
    Donphan: A ---> B
    Entei: A- ---> A+
    Feraligatr: Unranked ---> A
    Pidgeot (M): B ---> A-
    Rhyperior: A ---> B+
    Tornadus-T: A- ---> A+

    Soon replaced (Feel free to discuss them in the mean time)
    Abomasnow (M)
    Chesnaught
    Cresselia
    Salamence

    Another interesting mon atm is Rotom-H (Rank B). His usage has gone up to 11, and who could blame you since he's doing a excellent job of checking both Mamoswine & Togekiss. Mainly the defensive set with Volt Switch/Will O Wisp/Overheat/Pain Split is used to cripple foes and gain momentum & also coming in on Umbreon's to burn him without getting burn synced (easily out stalling heal bells) is also nice. Personally I could him see him somewhere in A, so I'm very curious what guys think of him in the current meta.
     
  35. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,463
    Likes Received:
    162
    I definitely agree with putting Rotom-H up high. The guy's a strong feature in my current team, and part of a VoltTurn core with Jirachi. The two work brilliantly together.

    A is a nice ranking for it, I reckon, perhaps even A+ thanks to its brilliant typing and utility.
     
  36. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    566
    Some other suggestions

    Pangoro from Unranked to B-: It does require a fair bit of support and isn't the most effective mon vs HO, but it eviscerates stall teams. Extremely spammable stab in knock off, and access to gunk shot so fairies can't wall you. Pretty potent.

    Tentacruel from B to A-: Neat typing and gets to spin freely vs fairies, which is huge. Good check to many special threats, and has access to tspikes, really good support mon.

    Honchkrow from A- to B: pretty slow, the good amount of (fast) fightning types in the tier means it is easy to revenge, even with sucker punch. Strong cleaner, but still not worthy of A- rank imo.

    Haxorus from B- to B+ : One of the best stallbreakers in the meta, is almost guaranteed a kill every game. Not complete deadweight vs HO as it isn't that slow, and is capable of dealing massive damage even without boosting.

    Tyrantrum from B+ to A- : Extremely easy to use, extremely effective. CB just punches holes in teams, and rp is hell for HO to face. Can also double as a fire type check thanks to 4x resistance.

    Kyurem from B to B+ : I know it's a small change, but kyurem is just better than the mons in B rank. Sub roost can be a nightmare to face, and bulk is very good considering how threatening this thing is.

    Forretress from B+ to A- or A: Probably the most effective spinner on HO, sturdy and custap is just so good. Also has access to volt switch to keep momentum, something crucial for offensive teams.

    Swampert from B+ to A- : Extremely splashable mon that requires minimal support to work. Reliable rocks setter, and a very decent fire type check. Physically and specially defensive sets are both totally viable, swampert is a great mon.

    Seismitoad from Unranked to B or B+ : It may look like a poor man's swampert, but water absorb means it is immune to scald burns, which is huge, not to forget that it has access to the extremely useful knock off. Otherwise, it does most of what swampert does, but it cannot phaze and has less bulk which is why I'm giving it B rank.

    As for those that were already mentionned

    Cresselia from C+ to A : Extremely fat wall that doesn't really need much support to work. Crawdaunt leaving the tier probably makes it even harder to kill. Can also act as a late game sweeper thanks to calm mind.

    Chesnaught from B+ to A-: Probably the most effective spiker on stall teams, great typing and ability, access to semi-decent recovery (leech seed and drain punch, you can use synthesis if you want though). Predictable, but useful sig move (spiky shield), a pretty reliable mon.

    Salamence from A+ to S: One of the most threatening mons in the meta, a very effective defogger, and an excellent scarfer, mence is just good at so many things. LO is a very good wallbreaker and DD is probably 1 of the bests sweepers there is, I think it deserves S rank.

    Rotom-H: I think rotom-h's popularity comes from its ability to wall/check both mamoswine and togekiss (it does wall other stuff, but these 2 are very popular in the current meta). Since togekiss is being suspected and some people want a mamoswine suspect, I'd wait a bit before changing rotom's rank.


    That'll be it for now.
     
    Spoovo The Pirate and E.T. like this.
  37. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    9
    PO Trainer Name:
    Alfalfa
    Scrafty and Trevenant still need to drop, they are utter garbage and there is literally no point in using either of them when they prove to be so much of a liability. Trevenant is nowhere near worth B Rank (put it at like D Rank), and neither is Scrafty worth C+ Rank.
     
  38. NananaBatman

    NananaBatman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    566
    Removed Togekiss and Mamoswine from S rank, as they are no longer UU.
     
  39. Just Do It

    Just Do It No one cares

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    141
    PO Trainer Name:
    Just Do It
    Removed:
    Weavile from S duo to his recent ban.

    Changes:
    Salamence: A+ ---> S

    I believe that the list still needs some updates, so feel free to discuss.
     
  40. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    110
    S Rank

    No issues here, both Victini and Salamence are fantastic mons in UU.

    A+

    Not sure about Alakazam and Umbreon - Alakazam is fast and powerful, but it is super frail. Umbreon is a decent special wall, but with so many Fighting types around it's just not as good as it used to be. I'd put them in A and B+ respectively.

    A

    Not sure about mega Aerodactyl and mega Ampharos. Mega Aero is very fast, but Tough Claws is wasted on it (why couldn't it have had Aerilate?). Mega Amphy is very powerful, but it's too slow and has no recovery at all besides Rest. Both should be A- IMO.

    A-

    Swap it with Alomomola IMO. Alo passes bigger Wishes, has Regenerator and physical better bulk. In fact, what does Vaporeon do better than Alo exactly?

    B+

    Roserade - bump it to A- IMO. It's more powerful than Shaymin, more specially bulky and is one of the best offensive hazard setters in the tier. It also removes Toxic Spikes which is nice. Shuckle - eh, I don't bite. Total Taunt bait, epic defences are wasted with low HP and no reliable recovery. It's also really easy to stop. B-/C+ IMO

    Will add more later