Hoenn Confirmed - Gen 3 Remakes out November 2014

Discussion in 'Pokémon Chat' started by Olivine, May 7, 2014.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

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    So Mega-Steelix and Mega-Glalie are confirmed for ORAS. MSteelix gets the ability Sand Force, while MGlalie gets Refrigerate. Both retain their original typing.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Personally I think MLix looks fairly cool, though MGlalie looks a little weird.

    Refrigerate is a cool ability, though I don't see MGlalie rising much because of it. I'd expect it to remain in NU, where it should fare alright (I'm just guessing tho, since I don't play the tier). Sand Force is an interesting choice on MLix, though probably not all that important unless it gains massive offensive boosts to go along with its new ability
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  2. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Video posted showing how will be the Legendary encounters, megalati@s using Luster Purge and Mist Ball, and mega Pidgeot/ Beedrill attacking



    Megalix looks cool, megaglal so-so, although i can be funny to try body slam refrigerate lol
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I found a website that claims to have the base stats of mega sceptile, swampert, steelix and glalie.

    Steelix: 75, 125, 230, 55, 95, 30
    Sceptile: 70, 110, 75, 145, 85, 145
    Swampert: 100, 150, 110, 95, 110, 70
    Glalie: 80, 120, 80, 120, 80, 100

    Mega Steelix still won't be used much. If only they'd given it Regenerator...
    Mega Sceptile looks awesome! It's so fast, it can still outrun max speed 127s with a neutral nature. Swords Dance and Special Attacker sets here we come.
    Mega Swampert looks great too. With base 70 Speed, it can outrun Scarfed 108s in the Rain. Bulky Grass types will be a massive issue for it though.
    Mega Glalie could finally get Glalie some recognition. I think it'll be a great suicide Spiker, as Refrigerate gives it a 487 power explosion.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/2j8dm1/mega_swampert_mega_sceptile_mega_steelix_and_mega/

    Apparently they were calculated with the Japanese demo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  4. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

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    Dr. Doom, I can go one better (although this was linked to on reddit, so I'm not some kind of wizard or anything)

    http://pokebeach.com/2014/10/mega-hoopa-uncovered-in-oras-demo-stats-for-mega-evolutions

    “Mega” Hoopa has been discovered in the coding for the Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire demo thanks to our friend at Project Pokemon, who personally supplied us with the images in this story. To discuss this news, check out this thread on our forums!

    I spoke to Kaphotics, one of the programmers who found the Pokemon, and it appears the demo is a stripped-down version of the game from a programming perspective. The regular Pokemon models were ripped out of the demo along with descriptions for several new moves, but some scraps of data were still left behind. As such, Mega Hoopa’s full-blown model isn’t actually in the demo’s coding – the model you see to the right is from a set of smaller, resized Pokemon models that will be used in the games for something else. Gamefreak may have forgotten to remove this set of smaller models due to an oversight or in thinking that fans would not be able to go into the demo’s coding. Alas, anyone who has the demo has data for Mega Hoopa sitting in their 3DS right now!

    We were told that while it’s easy to assume this model is of Mega Hoopa, there’s a chance it could be something else related to Hoopa instead (such as a form). The Pokemon has an 80 BST increase, which goes against the grain for Mega Evolutions. But for convenience, we’ll just refer to it as Mega Hoopa for now until we have confirmation from the games what it is.

    “Mega” Hoopa will know the move “Hyperspace Fury,” a special Dark-type attack that always hits, does 100 damage, and has 5 PP. It still has Magician for its Ability. We previously revealed that regular Hoopa’s signature attack is Hyperspace Hole.

    The stats for Primal Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza’s attacks were also revealed:

    • 618 Origin Pulse – Water Special, 85%, 110 BP, 10 PP
    • 619 Precipice Blades – Ground Physical, 85%, 120 BP, 10 PP
    • 620 Dragon Ascent – Flying Physical, 100%, 120 BP, 5 PP (effect code present, but removed)
    As were the stats of the Mega Evolutions programmed into the demo:

    • Swampert-M Stats: 100/150/110/95/110/70 Type: Water/Ground Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Sceptile-M Stats: 70/110/75/145/85/145 Type: Grass/Dragon Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Sableye-M Stats: 50/85/125/85/115/20 Type: Dark/Ghost Catchrate: 45 Stage: 2
    • Altaria-M Stats: 75/110/110/110/105/80 Type: Dragon/Fairy Catchrate: 45 Stage: 2
    • Gallade-M Stats: 68/165/95/65/115/110 Type: Psychic/Fighting Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Audino-M Stats: 103/60/126/80/126/50 Type: Normal/Fairy Catchrate: 255 Stage: 2
    • Sharpedo-M Stats: 70/140/70/110/65/105 Type: Water/Dark Catchrate: 60 Stage: 2
    • Slowbro-M Stats: 95/75/180/130/80/30 Type: Water/Psychic Catchrate: 75 Stage: 2
    • Steelix-M Stats: 75/125/230/55/95/30 Type: Steel/Ground Catchrate: 25 Stage: 2
    • Pidgeot-M Stats: 83/80/80/135/80/121 Type: Normal/Flying Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Glalie-M Stats: 80/120/80/120/80/100 Type: Ice/Ice Catchrate: 75 Stage: 2
    • Diancie-M Stats: 50/160/110/160/110/110 Type: Rock/Fairy Catchrate: 3 Stage: 3
    • Metagross-M Stats: 80/145/150/105/110/110 Type: Steel/Psychic Catchrate: 3 Stage: 3
    • Kyogre-P Stats: 100/150/90/180/160/90 Type: Water/Water Catchrate: 3 Stage: 3
    • Groudon-P Stats: 100/180/160/150/90/90 Type: Ground/Fire Catchrate: 3 Stage: 3
    • Rayquaza-M Stats: 105/180/100/180/100/115 Type: Dragon/Flying Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Hoopa-”M” Stats: 80/160/60/170/130/80 Type: Psychic/Dark Catchrate: 3 Stage: 3
    • Camerupt-M Stats: 70/120/100/145/105/20 Type: Fire/Ground Catchrate: 150 Stage: 2
    • Lopunny-M Stats: 65/136/94/54/96/135 Type: Normal/Fighting Catchrate: 60 Stage: 2
    • Salamence-M Stats: 95/145/130/120/90/120 Type: Dragon/Flying Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    • Beedrill-M Stats: 65/150/40/15/80/145 Type: Bug/Poison Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3
    The level-up moves for all of the Pokemon are also in the demo.​

    Personally I'm a little disappointed POgre and PDon don't get speed boosts. Guess that base 90 tier is still a huge deal in Ubers. (M)Ray looks fucking awesome, flying type CC= yes pls, while base 180 offenses and base 115 speed are crazy alongside DD and SD. Origin Pulse is kinda meh, guess that makes it better than HPump at least. Precipice Blades is a bit more interesting since it's notably stronger than EQ. Will probably become the preferred option I imagine since 85% accuracy isn't enough to stop people using it.

    Also shoutout to MBee for having almost all its base stats in attack and speed. Live big die big I guess

    Oh damn I only just noticed both primal formes have 150 base offense in their other attacking stat as well. That's really interesting

    EDIT:
    Maractus gets Spiky Shield.

    Accelgor gets Water Shuriken.

    Mismagius gets Mystical Fire.

    Cacturne gets Spiky Shield.

    Salamence learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Shiftry gets Hurricane.

    Slaking learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Exploud learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Sableye gets Quash.

    Medicham gets Counter and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Illumise gets Play Rough. (assuming Volbeat gets something also but it seems to have an incomplete listing)

    Plusle gets Bestow and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Minun gets Switcheroo and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Sharpedo gets Poison Fang.

    Grumpig gets Teeter Dance.

    Flygon gets Dragon Rush.

    Zangoose gets Hone Claws (already had it as a TM but now is a level-up move).

    Crawdaunt gets Razor Shell and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Claydol gets Imprison and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Cradily gets Giga Drain and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Armaldo gets Smack Down (was a TM already though) and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Milotic gets Coil and Disarming Voice and learns his moves at a generally lower level.

    Castform gets Hurricane.

    Banette gets Phantom Force.

    Glalie gets Frost Breath.

    Huntail gets Coil.

    Gorebyss gets Coil.

    Gallade gets Wide Guard.

    Lopunny gets Hi Jump Kick.

    Froslass gets Draining Kiss.

    Gyarados gets Crunch.

    Kyogre gets Origin Pulse.

    Groudon gets Precipice Blades.

    Audino gets Disarming Voice.

    Pinsir gets Double Hit.

    Altaria gets Disarming Voice.

    Vibrava learns Bug Buzz and Boomburst.

    Compare Serebii's dex to the leaked list, and you can confirm these yourself! Feel free to add any others you notice as this is not a comprehensive list by any means... mostly though it seems to be central to Gen 3 and the megas with a few things here and there.

    EDIT: WOO egg move list. Looks pretty similar tho: http://pastebin.com/hzFmncB6

    I haven't looked at the links but Gyara learning Crunch and Lopunny learning HJK are kind of a big deal, given their MEvos (MGyara FINALLY gets worthwhile dark STAB)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
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  5. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Very interesting Ortheore, thanks for sharing. I wonder if people will use mixed Groudon now? I thought Dragon Ascent was supposed to be the strongest Flying type move, which would put it at 140 BP minimum (tied with Sky Attack)? Well, 120's still good. I think more offensive Groudon sets will use Precipice Blade (maybe Choice Band will come back), while the defensive ones will use Earthquake.
     
  6. Sakuya Izayoi

    Sakuya Izayoi love to hate

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    DSM01 likes this.
  7. Insane Soul

    Insane Soul Griffith did nothing wrong.

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    Insane Soul
    Gunk Shot Greninja making my dream of a physical set come true.
     
  8. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Lot of buffs there. Diancie gets Earth Power, Chesnaught gets Drain Punch, Absol can now use Knock Off and Play Rough, Aururos gets Hyper Voice and Earth Power (although it'll still probably be shit), and with Ice Punch and Low Kick physical Greninja might become a thing. Also looking forward to trying SubPunch Mewtwo X and possibly Goodra.
     
  9. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

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    Literally at the top of my wishlist, thank you based Gamefreak.
     
  10. User Name

    User Name Life is a maze

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    Massive theorymon dump time
    Possible sets are in spoilers, but commentary is cooler IMO.
    Irrel=Irrelevant for set info

    Swamegapert: IMO a bit of a letdown overall; however, as a Pokemon who can probably effectively setup Rain itself, with a better typing than most of its Swiftly Swimming compadres, which also gives it an advantage over Tyranitar, it could certainly be a welcome addition to such teams. However, that 100/110/110 bulk really needs more attention. Sure 150 ATK is cool and all but without ATK boosting items it's not that much without rain or Curse boosts; that bulk is great, though, and gives it a lot more versatility, coupled with a great typing, and the ability to really hurt T-tar if needed. The ability might not even be used with Swampert, just use its utility options. Still, though +20 in both defensive stats is nice, it'll need a strong offensive component to avoid being outclassed by regular Swampert, who has Leftovers on its side.
    Swampert @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +ATK -Sp. ATK
    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Ice Punch/other coverage
    Rain Dance/other coverage

    Swampert @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 HP/252 Sp. Def/4 dump +Sp. DEF -Sp. ATK
    STAB, probably Waterfall
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Curse

    Swampert @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +DEF/Sp. DEF -Sp. ATK
    STAB, probably Waterfall
    Stealth Rock, Roar, Scald, and/or Resttalk
    This set will most likely be outclassed by regular Pert.

    Megtile: Burds gonna make Sceptile's life tough, as will its arguably fairly poor defensive typing. Sceptile's main draw is that it is REALLY hard to paralyze by conventional means, as it's immune to both of the primary methods used to do so--Thunder Wave and Stun Spore. Its Lightningrod ability isn't really useful otherwise, though it can help it cockblock Rotom-Ws that don't predict with HP Ice. It's fairly straightforward, and I expect it will be held back primarily by movepool. Dragon STAB isn't worth too much without a boosting item when it's not hitting super-effectively, and Grass just has way too many resists.

    Sceptile @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 Sp. ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Sp. ATK/Speed -ATK
    Leaf Storm
    Hidden Power whatever, probably Ice or Fire
    Focus Blast
    Dragon Pulse
    Possibly replace one of those with Giga Drain

    Sceptile @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +ATK -Sp. ATK
    Leaf Blade
    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Swords Dance/Substitute
    Earthquake

    Megableye: I...don't really see the purpose in this one, to be honest. I feel like there will be uses for it, but I find myself doubting their efficacy. Having a Mega Stone as an option lets Sableye pull mindgames on whether it will switch that turn or not; having Mega Bounce as an ability means it doesn't have to be directly in play to block status move users (eg, if you gave Skarmory a free switch, you can bounce its Spikes instead of having to deal with 1 layer and then using Taunt); it doesn't have to worry about Trick; it lets it save moveslots from Taunt; and it could let it pull some interesting setup sets, without the possibility of being phazed, Taunted, or in many ways otherwise incapacitated.

    Sableye @ Stone
    Ability: Prankster
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +DEF/Sp. DEF -Sp. ATK
    Recover
    Will-o-Wisp
    Knock Off
    Taunt/Confuse Ray/Toxic/Substitute

    Sableye @ Stone
    Ability: Prankster
    252 HP/252 DEF/4 dump +DEF -ATK
    Recover
    Calm Mind
    Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball
    Filler, prob some sort of status or Knock Off

    MegAltaria: A very well-rounded Mega indeed. Altaria will likely be one of the more defensively inclined Megas, though it does have offensive options, and as Sylveon often proves Pixilate can be enough on its own to create significant offensive prowess. Bulky Dragon Dance sets are an option, but I feel like for the most part they (and to be honest, most of Altaria's offensive roles) would be outclassed by Salamence and its own Mega form. Altaria's movepool and stats let it go in various other directions, fortunately. For example, it can often supplant Sylveon's role as a cleric, with Roost and an extra moveslot compensating for loss of Wishprotect; it can take on simple offensive roles, possibly accompanied by Roost for longevity, with Pixilated Sub-bypassing Hyper Voices; or it can serve nifty utility roles. It really is a shame it can't learn Defog though...yet.

    Altaria @ Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    252 Sp. ATK/252 HP or Speed/4 dump +Sp. ATK/Speed -ATK
    Roost
    Draco Meteor
    Power Swap
    Hyper Voice/Flamethrower

    Altaria @Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +DEF/Sp. DEF -ATK/Sp. ATK
    Roost
    Hyper Voice/Return/Body Slam
    Roar
    Toxic/Heal Bell/Tailwind/Perish Song

    The following sets would likely be outclassed by Mence and MegaMence, except for the Fairy typing.
    Altaria @ Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    252 Sp. ATK/252 HP or Speed/4 dump +Sp. ATK -ATK
    Roost
    Flamethrower
    Hyper Voice
    Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor

    Altaria @ Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    252 attacking stats/252 HP or Speed/4 dump +Sp. ATK/ATK/Speed -Sp. Def/DEF/Speed
    Roost
    Hyper Voice/Return
    Flamethrower/Earthquake/Draco Meteor/Dragon Claw/Ice Beam
    Flamethrower/Earthquake/Draco Meteor/Dragon Claw/Ice Beam

    Altaria @ Stone
    Ability: Natural Cure
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +ATK/Speed -Sp. ATK
    Roost
    Dragon Dance
    Return/Double-Edge
    Earthquake/Dragon Claw/Roar

    MeGallade: Actually a pretty boring Mega overall. It's just straight up sweeper boosts, and not like Beedrill's either, where they made a terrible Pokemon actually pretty damn good. There's really nothing to say. I don't even want to bother attaching movesets to it, because anyone can figure out how to stick offensive moves on the guy. To be fair, its status movepool is fantastic, and it actually did get some significant defensive buffs, so maybe you could pull something together out of that...actually, I've never noticed before how ridiculously large Gallade's movepool is. This could actually be interesting, though Leftovers on regular Gallade might be more beneficial than the defensive buffs on MeGallade.

    Gallade @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +ATK/Speed -Sp. ATK
    Close Combat
    Knock Off/Shadow Sneak/Psycho Cut/Stone Edge/Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Destiny Bond/Memento/any of its other significant status moves for other 3 slots

    Gallade @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 HP or Speed/252 ATK or Sp. DEF +ATK/Sp. DEF/Speed -Sp. ATK
    Bulk Up or Swords Dance
    Drain Punch
    Knock Off/Shadow Sneak/Psycho Cut/Stone Edge/Swords Dance/Bulk Up/Destiny Bond/Memento/any of its other significant status moves for other 2 slots

    Gallade @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 HP or Speed/252 ATK or defensive stat +ATK/Speed/defensive stat -Sp. ATK
    Will-o-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Taunt/Disable/Encore/Toxic
    Knock Off
    STAB, probably Fighting-type
    Filler

    Megaudino: It's too bad the first 5th gen Mega is so mediocre. What does losing Leftovers get Audino that's worth the loss? It loses Regenerator and gets Fairy typing. So how does it differentiate itself from its bulky Fairy brethren? It might be better in Doubles, I guess, I wouldn't know. Its Special movepool is probably better but its offensive stats are definitely worse, even with the +20 boost. Looking through its page, it gets Knock Off, I guess that's worth something. Also, how does Klutz interact with Mega Stones? That ought to be a fun experiment. Just use Sylveon.

    Audino @ Stone
    Ability: Regenerator
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +defensive stat -ATK
    Wish
    Protect
    Attacks or status moves, Thunder Wave and Knock Off are cool I guess, Encore is unique, Heal Bell isn't quite as much

    Audino @ Stone
    Ability: Regenerator
    252 HP/252 defensive stats or Sp. ATK +defensive stat or Sp. ATK -Speed
    Trick Room
    Wish
    Protect
    Dazzling Gleam
    This one deserves its own commentary. I notice on the random theorymon browsing that Audino gets Trick Room. Now, is Trick Room Audino with Fairy typing and 20 more Sp. ATK points better than Trick Room Audino with Regenerator? Or are they just going to be equally sucky?

    Megapedo: That damage boost is neat, but not really enough. Ideally, you would use it to get a revenge kill to get the +1 Speed, then Mega Evolve and start wrecking things with STAB Crunch, but I doubt it would work out quite that neatly. +30 in both defenses is cool but probably irrelevant overall. I'm sure the boost to Sp. ATK does something useful but I don't know what; mixed sets have never been my specialty, and a STAB Strong Jaws Crunch is so strong that mixing EVs doesn't seem like the best idea. At least it has decent enough Speed that if you're forced out again you can switch it back in later and try to resume cleaning up.

    Sharpedo @ Stone
    Ability: Speed Boost
    252 ATK/252 Speed +ATK or Speed -Sp. ATK
    Crunch
    Ice Fang
    Aqua Jet
    Waterfall/Protect/Poison Jab/Taunt/Destiny Bond

    Megabro: When I heard Slowbro was getting Shell Armor, I was initially disappointed, but I thought there might be redemption if it let Slowbro run a better Calm Mind set. I didn't realize quite how accurate that guess would be. The new Slowbro is bulky af, enough so that even without Leftovers it's pretty ridiculous. Shell Armor sucks in just about every other situation, but on a Calm Mind sweeper that even Mega Tyranitar needs a boost to 2HKO with a super-effective Crunch (and if it doesn't have Crunch, it might as well just give up), it works just fine.

    Slowbro @ Stone
    Ability: Regenerator
    252 HP/252 DEF or Sp. ATK +DEF or Sp. ATK -ATK
    Calm Mind
    Slack Off
    Scald
    Filler coverage

    Steeliga: An offensive approach to MegAggron that somehow manages to have less ATK than MegAggron, and/or a defensive approach to MeGarchomp that actually has less Special bulk. Steelix is a lot more dependent on its ability to deal damage than similar Pokemon, and even with it you've really only gotten a 125 attacker using a Life Orb, and only on specific attacks to boot. Its massive physical bulk is what would set it apart from such Pokemon, but that 30 Speed and lack of any recovery, even Leftovers, outside of Rest, means chip damage becomes a significantly bigger problem; and even with the Mega boost, its Sp. DEF is still lacking, as mentioned. Without Sandstorm, Mega Steelix is simply another mediocre Steel whose every role is outclassed--and even in Sand you ought to look at some of its alternatives.

    Steelix @ Stone
    Ability: Sturdy
    252 HP/252 ATK/4 dump +ATK -Sp. ATK or Speed
    Iron Head/Gyro Ball
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Sandstorm or other filler

    Steelix @ Stone
    Ability: Sturdy
    252 HP/252 Sp. DEF or ATK/4 dump +Sp. DEF or ATK -Sp. ATK or Speed
    Curse
    Gyro Ball/Stone Edge
    Earthquake/Stone Edge
    Sandstorm/Rest/filler

    Medgeot: Overrated. It's fast and it's furious, alright, but since it's item-locked into the Mega Stone that 135 Sp. ATK is deceptively weak, without an item to back it up. Offensive megas usually get a damage boosting ability to compensate for the lack of an item; while No Guard TECHNICALLY does that with Hurricane, it doesn't do it with anything else, and its Hurricane actually isn't that strong anyways. Pidgeot would've appreciated more of a movepool to use with No Guard; as it is, you'd only use it for a hax-free Tornadus.

    Pidgeot @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 Sp. ATK/252 Speed +Speed or Sp. ATK -DEF or Sp. DEF
    Hurricane
    Heat Wave
    U-Turn
    Quick Attack

    Pidgeot @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 Sp. ATK/252 Speed +Speed or Sp. ATK -ATK
    Hurricane
    Heat Wave
    Roost
    Filler

    MeGlalie: This one could be oodles of fun. Its typing still sucks and makes it hard to switchin, but its movepool is great, and everyone is eyeing that Refrigerated Explosion--as far as I know, no other Mega gets Explosion with a similar damage boost. It's strong enough to almost entirely cripple Skarmory, and it's still got excellent offensive prowess without it, especially with Ice's excellent offensive coverage. Its support movepool is great too, with gems like Taunt, Spikes, Disable, and Super Fang available. It's unfortunately still a bit slow, residing in the cramped 100 Speed Tier, but it can probably deal a lot of damage before going out.

    Glalie @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Explosion
    Return
    Earthquake
    Taunt/Ice Shard/Spikes

    Glalie @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed -Sp. ATK
    Explosion
    Spikes
    Taunt/Ice Shard
    Return

    Megiancie: A Shell Smashed Diancie with Magic Bounce, basically. Its defenses are still significant even after the change, though that 50 HP is still crippling, but the real kicker is 110 Speed. Diancie still hates Bullet Punches, but it can actually hit back now, at least. The lack of a good Special Rock move or Physical Fairy move still hurts Diancie's offensive prowess (not even Power Gem???), but at least it has Earth Power to use now. It still doesn't look like it will end used very much due its movepool, but it's an improvement, at least, and Magic Bounce is pretty handy.

    Diancie @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    252 Sp. ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or Sp. ATK -ATK or -DEF or -Sp. DEF
    Moonblast
    Earth Power
    Stealth Rock
    Explosion or Filler

    Diancie @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    252 HP or ATK or Sp. ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed -Sp. ATK or -ATK
    Stealth Rock/Reflect/Light Screen
    Stealth Rock/Reflect/Light Screen
    Explosion
    Diamond Storm/Moonblast

    Diancie @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    528 among ATK, Sp. ATK, and Speed +Speed, ATK, or Sp. ATK -DEF or Sp. DEF
    Moonblast
    Diamond Storm
    Explosion
    Filler

    Megagross: First, I must mention how utterly psyched I am that Metagross is getting a Mega form. I fricken love this Pokemon. It's an interesting bundle overall, as many Pseubers are, and has several directions it can go in. Though it might miss having access to Air Balloon, being able to beat out all 108 and lower Speed Pokemon with its Mega is fantastic, and Tough Claws gets it a Life Orb boost--all the better since Metagross didn't often run Life Orb anyways. Of course, there's the all-out attacking options, but it might also become a great Stealth Rock setter. It's too bad it keeps the Psychic typing, though, it would sure appreciate a typing change.

    Metagross @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet Punch
    Thunderpunch/Ice Punch
    Earthquake/Explosion/Zen Headbutt/Hammer Arm/Pursuit

    Metagross @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 Sp. ATK +Speed or ATK -DEF or Sp. DEF
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet Punch
    Thunderpunch/Earthquake/Explosion/Zen Headbutt/Hammer Arm
    Grass Knot

    Metagross @ Stone
    Ability: Clear Body
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Meteor Mash
    Bullet Punch
    Thunderpunch/Earthquake/Explosion/Zen Headbutt/Hammer Arm
    Stealth Rock/Magnet Rise/Hone Claws/Power-Up Punch

    Pryogre: Well, weren't we all excited for this one! Gamefreak did give it some Sp. ATK boost, but not more than you would have gotten with virtually any damage-boosting item besides the Wise Glasses. Most of the stat boosts actually went to ATK, presumably to keep Kyogre from being way too strong, but obviously it means that Kyogre is ill-equipped to take advantage of many of the boosts Primal gives to it. Its ability's Fire immunity barely blocks anything besides Will-o-Wisps; its Sp. DEF boost, while nice, is too negligible to offset the loss of Leftovers; and its physical movepool doesn't even matter.

    Just look up the old Kyogre sets, I doubt Primal Kyogre would use anything new. It might substitute its new signature move for its Water STABs, I suppose.

    Grimaldon: Groudon is where the real boosts accumulated. Adding a Fire-type comes with pros and cons, but at least one of the cons is irrelevant: Thanks to its ability, a x4 Water weakness becomes a Water immunity. While Stealth Rock's increased damage and a newfound weakness to Earthquake hit hard, new resistances to Fire and Fairy, immunity to Will-o-Wisp, and a neutrality to Ice and Grass are quite nice to have around (incidentally, I think it also turns Groudon into a hard check, or even a hard counter, to Xerneas). Groudon's Special movepool is also significantly better than Kyogre's Physical selections, and as mentioned, the Water immunity is beastly.

    Groudon @ Primal
    Ability: Desolate Land
    252 HP or Speed/252 Sp. ATK/4 dump +Sp. ATK or Speed -ATK
    Lava Plume/Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Solarbeam
    Dragon Pulse/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/Filler

    Groudon @ Primal
    Ability: Desolate Land
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +defensive stats -Sp. ATK or ATK
    Stealth Rock
    Thunder Wave
    Dragon Tail/Roar
    Lava Plume/Earthquake/Precipice Blades

    Groudon @ Primal
    Ability: Desolate Land
    252 HP or Speed/252 ATK/4 dump +ATK or Speed -Sp. ATK
    Earthquake/Precipice Blades
    Stone Edge
    Fire Punch
    Boosting move, Coverage, or Filler

    Groudon @ Primal
    Ability: Desolate Land
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +defensive stats -ATK or -Sp. ATK
    Lava Plume
    Dragon Tail/Roar
    Rest
    Sleep Talk

    Megaquaza: How about another powerhouse? Though the boosts aren't enough to actually overcome just holding a Life Orb, the Speed boost that neither Primal got is where the significant stat boosts are, putting it at a lovely 115 Speed. Its ability is pretty smoking, too, reducing its Ice weakness to a mere x2, neutralizing its Rock weakness, and if I'm correct about how it works, giving it an Electric resistance. I want to know how it works on Stealth Rock, though. It's certainly quite an upgrade from Air Lock.

    Rayquaza @ Stone
    Ability: Air Lock
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Outrage
    V-Create/Earthquake
    Extremespeed
    Dragon's Ascent/Swords Dance/Dragon Dance/Earthquake

    Rayquaza @ Stone
    Ability: Air Lock
    528 among ATK, Sp. ATK, and Speed +Speed or ATK -DEF or Sp. DEF
    Extremespeed
    Outrage/Draco Meteor/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat/V-Create/Dragon's Ascent/Earthquake/Earth Power for last 3 slots

    Alter Hoopa: What is up with this guy, like really? +50 ATK, +20 Sp. ATK, +10 Speed totals up to 80/60/130 defensive stats, unchanged from the original Hoopa, with low DEF but sizeable Sp. DEF, and 160/170/80 offensive stats, which is pretty ridiculous power-wise but pretty meh Speed-wise. There's also a Type change from Psychic/Ghost to Psychic/Dark, which changes the weaknesses from x4 Ghost and Dark to x2 Fairy and x4 Bug and the resistances from 0 Fighting and Normal and 1/2 Psychic and Poison to 0 Psychic. Defensively, both kinda suck, with OriHoopa destroyed by Pursuit and Knock Off and Alter Hoopa crippled by Fairies and annihilated by U-Turns; but OriHoopa may actually have the edge due to better resistances and immunities. Stat-wise and move-wise, both look primed for wallbreaking and hole-punching, with Alter Hoopa definitively winning in that regard, and they both could probably run Assault Vest or an otherwise Specially Tanky set instead, or possibly at the same time. As a whole package, I do think Alter Hoopa is overall better, but much remains to be seen (especially whether Alter has an open item slot, and whether it has to take a turn to form change, or use a certain move, etc).
    The following sets will assume it can use items and its form change occurs pre-battle.

    Alter Hoopa @ Life Orb/Magician-triggering item
    Ability: Magician
    528 among HP, ATK, Sp. ATK +Sp. ATK/ATK -DEF/Sp. DEF/Speed
    Knock Off
    Psychic/Psyshock
    Focus Blast/Drain Punch/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Energy Ball/Taunt/Destiny Bond/other filler for last 2 moves

    Alter Hoopa @ Choice Specs/Life Orb/Assault Vest/Magician-triggering item
    Ability: Magician
    252 HP/252 Sp. ATK/4 dump +Sp. ATK -ATK
    Hyperspace Fury
    Psychic/Psyshock
    Focus Blast
    Trick/other coverage

    Alter Hoopa @ Leftovers/Sitrus Berry/Lum Berry
    Ability: Magician
    252 HP/252 ATK/4 dump +ATK -Sp. ATK
    Substitute
    Focus Punch
    Knock Off
    Rest/Other coverage

    Alter Hoopa @ Leftovers/Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Magician
    252 HP/252 offensive stats/4 dump +offensive stats -Speed
    Trick Room
    Hyperspace Hole/Knock Off
    Psychic/Psyshock/Drain Punch/other coverage
    Taunt/Destiny Bond/Coverage/Filler

    Camegarupt: Clearly the guy was made for use on Trick Room teams, but with increased bulk it can take hits outside of it and strike back hard. However, it comes with several flaws; one is that it keeps its typing, which is neat offensively but terrible defensively (at least without the Water immunity that Desolate Land gives). It would've also been nice if they had finally stopped trying to make Camerupt a mixed attacker; that extra 20 points from ATK could fit quite nicely in the other stats, especially since Sheer Force doesn't help Camerupt's physical movepool nearly as much. It would mean Camerupt couldn't use Stone Edge nearly as effectively, but IMO it doesn't really need to, though admittedly its movepool is pretty poor on both ends. But that's enough musing on the matter. Camerupt still hits pretty hard, but overall it's fairly lackluster.

    Camerupt @ Stone
    Ability: Solid Rock
    252 HP/252 Sp. ATK/4 dump +Sp. ATK -ATK or Speed
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Will-o-Wisp/Ancientpower/Explosion/Stealth Rock/other filler for last 2 slots

    Camerupt @ Stone
    Ability: Solid Rock
    528 among HP, ATK, and Sp. ATK +ATK or Sp. ATK -Speed
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    Explosion/other filler

    Megapunny: Having perfect coverage in your 2 STAB moves is great, but Lopunny doesn't really have the power to back it up without a damage boosting item. Sure, it can 2HKO a buncha things, but that's not alright when you're getting OHKOed or taking heavy damage in return. Lopunny does get some decent priority, though, with Quick Attack and Fake Out, and has some good filler moves too, with gems like Baton Pass, Power-Up Punch, Healing Wish, Encore, Drain Punch, Heal Bell, and Circle Throw. Also, the Klutz vs Mega Stone conundrum arises again!

    Lopunny @ Stone
    Ability: Limber
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    High Jump Kick
    Return
    Quick Attack
    Fake Out/Healing Wish/Power-Up PunchOther filler

    Lopunny @ Stone
    Ability: Limber
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Substitute
    Encore
    Focus Punch/Drain Punch/Circle Throw
    Return/Flail

    Lopunny @ Stone
    Ability: Limber
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Power-Up Punch/Substitute
    Hi Jump Kick/Drain Punch/Substitute
    Return/Substitute
    Baton Pass

    MegaMence: The big guy himself and the one everyone's afraid of. The ATK boost wasn't TOO bad, but the extra bulk, coupled with an Intimidate, 20 extra Speed points, AND the sheer power of Aerilate mean Salamence may find his Mega Form promoted later on. It also makes Salamence probably the ideal bulky Dragon Dancer, able to set up on almost any physical attacker. The lack of a Life Orb will make Skarmory slightly tougher to break through, but Mence's Sp. ATK is still sufficient to target its usual opponents' Special Defense stats.

    Salamence @ Stone
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK, DEF, or Sp. DEF
    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Thrash/Double-Edge/Return/Earthquake
    Fire Blast/Earthquake

    Salamence @ Stone
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Dragon Dance/Roost
    Dragon Dance/Roost/Earthquake
    Outrage
    Thrash/Double-Edge/Return

    Salamence @ Stone
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 HP/256 defensive stats +defensive stat -Sp. ATK
    Return
    Dragon Tail/Roar
    Roost
    Filler

    Salamence @ Stone
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 Speed/256 offensive stats +Speed or offensive stat -DEF or Sp. DEF
    Return/Hyper Voice
    Outrage/Draco Meteor
    Outrage/Draco Meteor/Earthquake/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Hydro Pump for last 2 moves

    Salamence @ Stone
    Ability: Intimidate
    252 Sp. ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or Sp. ATK -ATK
    Hyper Voice
    Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
    Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Hydro Pump
    Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Hydro Pump/Roost

    Meedrill: The one we've all been waiting for, and probably by far the silliest of the new MEvos, Beedrill min-maxes as far as he can get away with to gain the classic sweeper build when he was thought to be irredeemable. For some reason, a lot of the people I see talking about Beedrill tend to assume that Beedrill should be staying in battle and straight up sweeping, but TBH Beedrill should be used primarily for a fast STAB Adaptability U-Turn that rivals that of Choice Band Scizor's. While it could POSSIBLY sweep, its movepool is much better suited towards hit-and-run tactics, especially since Bug/Poison has such poor coverage.

    Beedrill @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    U-Turn
    Poison Jab
    Knock Off
    Drill Run/Toxic Spikes/Pursuit/Tailwind

    Beedrill @ Stone
    Ability: Irrel
    252 ATK/252 Speed/4 dump +Speed or ATK -Sp. ATK
    Swords Dance/Fell Stinger
    X-Scissor/Poison Jab
    X-Scissor/Poison Jab/Knock Off/U-Turn
    Drill Run
     
    Aurist likes this.
  11. Ortheore

    Ortheore One beautiful monster

    Joined:
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    I haven't really thought through most of the new megas, but I don't see MBee as an effective hit and run pokemon- with its shit typing and shit defenses it's going to have a tough time coming in often enough to really thrive in that kind of role.

    CMMegaBro isn't something that occurred to me, but damn that does make a lot of sense.

    Looking forward to Dragon's Ascent MRay, since its dragon stab has serious drawbacks, especially with Xern on the prowl

    Talking of PDon as a Xern check makes me think that it could potentially run a half-decent SDef set. With its typing and desolate land that could work, making it one of the strongest Eleceus checks out there as well as being able to not die to GeoXern and ironically walling non-primal Kyogre, although the lack of recovery obviously is ass. For reference, here are some calcs vs GeoXern
    +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 250-295 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 316-372 (78.2 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 177-208 (43.8 - 51.4%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
    +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon: 223-263 (55.1 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also I'm pretty sure Diancie gets Power Gem??? It should be interesting seeing how MDiancie fares- if it weren't for the fact that it gains Earth Power I would say the offensive stat boosts (at the cost of defences) were a downgrade, but since it does get anti-steel coverage I guess it should be good