===General=== +Massive 160 HP coupled with 110 Special Defense makes the bear a colossal special wall +110 Attack stat turns a straight wall into a massively threatening tank +Coverage is good enough to give offensive Snorlax sets mild 4MSS +Body Slam paralysis is always good to spread around in an offensive metagame +Curse sets can work very well when properly supported and has great chances of winning in a last mon scenario. -Speed stat is pretty abysmal -Although its HP buffers the low Defense stat it still suffers from it immensely -Although it finally stood up, this means that it can't Slack Off. This makes it depend on Rest to stay alive when acting as a wall and not an offensive tank. -Has major trouble against the Ghost types of the tier, pokemon like Rhyperior, Alomomola and Gligar also laugh at it ==Fat Bruiser== Snorlax (M) @ Assault Vest Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Body Slam - Crunch / Pursuit - Earthquake - Fire Punch -Assault Vest boosts its already impressive special bulk to ridiculous levels, being able to very easily check Rash Raikou, (Mega) Houndoom, Nidoking and OTR Cofagrigus. -Maximum investment in Attack allows Snorlax to throw its weight around with Body Slam, dealing heavy damage while trying to spread paralysis to non-electric type pokemon -Crunch hits ghosts and less importantly psychic types while Earthquake hits threats such as the aforementioned Raikou and Nidoking. -Fire Punch is the most interchangeable move on this set, however it does eliminate Forretress and Escavalier with little prior damage, which otherwise set up on or kill you outright. -You may want to opt out of using Pursuit as Snorlax fails to scare away both Azelf and OTR Reuniclus if they manage to Psyshock you on a switch due to low defense. Only takes a switch in to rocks to make it a guaranteed 2HKO from both of them. -If you really hate Florges and Aerodactyl, Heavy Slam is an option for both. -Hate Rhyperior? Seed Bomb can be used as it also hits Starmie, Krookodile and is Snorlax's best option versus Suicune. -Be careful around Abomasnow, as mixed sets will easily kill Snorlax through its weaker defense. "Speed creeping" is advised as well for Escavalier that try to outrun Slowking and to get an extra hit in on other Snorlax, as well as hitting Mega Aboma before it moves. -Snorlax can live nearly any non-super effective hit surprisingly easily, but generally speaking you don't want to try and trade blows with other physical attackers unless you're sure you don't need Snorlax anymore. -Choice Band is an option on this set but it largely plays as a high risk high reward pokemon. Assault Vest is the superior item in nearly every situation. ==The big round wall== Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat EVs: EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 SDef Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Body Slam / Frustration(Return) - Rest - Sleep Talk / Curse - Whirlwind / Crunch -Forgoing heavy investment in Attack, this set aims to use Snorlax's natural bulk to its advantage, while best used in combination with hazards to maximize the benefits of having Whirlwind. -Still effortlessly walls the likes of Raikou and Nidoking -The given EVs allow you to live 2 Psyshocks no matter what from full health from Azelf and Reuniclus, as well as giving you a bit of buffer room for missed predictions when sending in Snorlax against an unexpected Mixed Abomasnow. The extra defense EVs do make quite the difference: Spoiler 4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 144 HP / 112 Def Snorlax: 201-237 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery 4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 234-276 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery -As mentioned above this set really needs hazards to truly shine in LU, as being able to Whirlwind away Taunting threats such as Sableye and Gligar while wracking up more residual damage against almost anything is one of the selling points of the traditional RestTalk set. -Instead of shoving it into OO, I decided to basically merge the Curse set into this one. Use the second set of slashes for the Curse set, and keep oin mind it is a secondary option to the classic RestTalk set. -With Curse, you become a colossal tank, being able to take even Close Combats from the likes of Machamp and still live to throw out a Frustration. -It's generally advised you go with Frustration/Crunch in order to deal with the ghosts of the tier, as a mono attacker must depend on either a pursuit trapper or some other way to remove them. -Even with the insane bulk, Curselax still took a fall from grace compared to its glory in GSC and ADV, and is a sub-par option for Snorlax. It runs into the problem of lacking immediate strength and the fact that its physical bulk just isn't that great without a Curse or two under your belt. ==Other Options== -Specs! It has access to Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Solarbeam, and even has Hyper Voice for STAB. And of course, who could ever forget the mighty eye beams that are Hyper Beam. -Doesn't really have anything else. At all. Maybe something like trying to use After You on a Cofagrigus to get a Knock Off or something, but then you just lost your Assault Vest. ==Checks and Counters== -Generally anything that can hit hard on the physical side and has a modicum of physical bulk can deal with Snorlax fairly easily. Most Fighting types and Rhyperior(sans Seed Bomb) can dispatch it most of the time. -Main problem with offensive checks is the body slam paralysis. If you're feeling risky, pokemon like Aerodactyl and Honchkrow can kill it while either not taking much damage(Aerodactyl) or killing it outright while only having to switch in(Honchkrow). Again, paralysis is a problem. -Otherwise, pokemon like Alomomola, Gligar and Florges - pretty much any physical wall with Toxic - stands a very good chance of stone walling Snorlax to where it will never beat them.
I believe you mean Me First instead of After You in the OO bit. I reckon CB's probably worth a mention somewhere for the awesome power it has, maybe even as a slash after AV? (though it's likely better off in OO). It's more sane than Specs anyway lol. Also, would the first set be better off with a bit of investment in Defence? Its HP is so ridiculous that huge investment won't make a big difference, while buffing its Defence will help it out a lot. I can't name a specific investment (I usually just break 200 myself), but hey, idea's there.
I'll test around with it, seems like a worthwhile idea since its HP already does buffer its special defense without any investment anyway. Seems like a good idea to at least consider. I'm also planning to make a specific mention of CB in the Assault Vest's set comments, I just don't think it's good enough to actually slash in. I will if others feel I should. Also I thought that After You had the same effect as Me First, just went after the opponent. Oops. Doesn't even get Me First so I'll just remove that when I make changes to the rest of this, lol.
helloo general: mentioning thick fat would be benefical imo here, giving it fire/ice resistance to help with stuff like entei. ctrl + f shows 0 results for "thick fat" so yeah you should probably mention it fat bruiser: maybe mention return/frustration in set comments, dont think it is worth slashing given the coverage snorlax has, snorlax usually wont need to use return / body slam twice in a row. looking through some common pokes return/frustration doesnt really have more merits than body slam, so would be ok alternative to mention in set comments. counter can be somewhat useful against some physical attackers which snorlax may struggle, notably you mention rhyperior can give snorlax trouble, given snorlax's massive hp stat counter can be rather useful, and using counter after rhyperior uses eq will ko rhyperior or bring it down to very low health. this would probably be best in set comments or slashed with fire punch probably. counter could just go in oo instead yeah like spoovo said phys defense investment can be helpful, too hard to calc a bunch of stuff right now on ipad tho the big round wall: i feel a curse set could get its own set rather being put in oo or included with this set, the ev spread used for a curse set may be different than the resttalk set. also whirlwind obviously isnt needed on a curse set otherwise it's pretty good oo: there is some stuff you can still use, just to name stuff: belly drum, but slow speed and losing health hurts, sitrus berry could help recover some health with it counter, like mentioned before. it could also be used with chople berry to surprise fighting-types chestorest, could work with belly drum or curse sets i guess stockpile increases physical and special bulk making it harder to take down c&c escavalier can check anything without fire punch tangrowth says hi, but cant do too much back except knock off or leech seed maybe sableye can taunt wisp knock off/foul play and what not and take hits with ease specify some of the fighting-types that can do significant damage (maybe not now but at least in the write-up) chesnaught takes physical hits well enough, has leech seed, spiky shield, and is fighting-type too
I agree with meeps' suggestions, though a lot of the OO are really niche. I think the Curse set should either get it's own set or get an altenrate EV spread in Set Comments. For the Big Round Wall, I personally would go with 252+ Def / 252 SDef. I feel it gives it the ideal amount of mixed bulk. Some calcs for various spreads(all with SR): Spoiler: Physical Bulk 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Psyshock vs. 144 HP / 112 Def Snorlax: 200-238 (40.2 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 156-185 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery 252 SpA Life Orb Azelf Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 156-185 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 23.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Spoiler: Special Bulk 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 144 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 161-191 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Snorlax: 161-191 (34.8 - 41.3%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(with no SR, aka after Rest, 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Snorlax: 199-235 (37.9 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery So in essence, you're taking Psyshocks and other decently powerful physical attacks more comfortably, while still being able to take the most powerful special attackers in the tier head on.
Curse definitely deserves its own set, as you mentioned in general if it is the last mon it is ridiculously threatening if you no longer have a strong Fighting type alive, and finding the right time to switch in to it is difficult too, since you dont wanna let it boost too much but also dont wanna get OHKO'd on the switch. can mention resto chesto and chople in oo, not the other stuff meeps suggested though, its too slow for belly drum outside of tr and stockpile is just a bad move in general.
RE Curse: If we're talking about a classic sleep talk or Crunch curselax then it would probably just be better to have the straight wall's EV spread since you're going for longevity, not power. If you guys really want it as its own set of course I'll comply but they actually play similarly; it's just one is aiming to sweep and sponge hits while the other can phaze while sponging hits. I'll change the EV spread on the wall set to 252 in both defenses, slashing Careful and Impish together. I'd rather very comfortably wall Rash Raikou and barely get 2HKO'D by Focus Blast from Reuniclus rather than take a little less from Psyshock. But I can see the obvious uses of having a bit more defense. Back to curse: offensive curselax, however, is played completely differently than the Rest one and might deserve its own set, although it's the one lax set I've not used on my own. Other than that I'll incorporate what meeps and Afro said when I actually get back to a computer.
I just think Curselax deserves like a more notable mention than a set comment, you could make standard curselax its own set, mention the options like chesto chesto or sleep talk, then have offensive curselax in set comments there? Also I haven't used it personally, but is CB really not viable anymore now that we have AV?
I just wanted to react about the first repartition. If I'm not mystaking, the very basic formula implies that the bulkiness of our Pokemon correspond to the product of HP with the considered defense. Thus, if the final HP amount is more than twice bigger than each defense stat, you've better, if possible, to remove 8 EV in HP to put 4 more in each defense. (So, when you mentionned the repartition 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd, which leads to 524 HP - 166 Def - 257 SpDef ; you should instead have 236 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 12 SpDef. Of course, in this case it's only a detail that doesn't change much (86'934-134'668 against 87'360-134'680) but still, for the beauty of maths, I couldn't resist to mention it) On a similar way, when VuvuzelaBzz mention a 4HP / 252+Def / 252SpDef ; a 200 HP / 252 Def / 56+ SpDef is better on both side (again, only for the beauty of maths). Mainly because the +SpDef nature give a brute number of additionnal points greater than a +Def one. Anyway, if you don't invest in attack on Snorlax, I would say that you "should" take a +SpDef nature and put 252 on Def. (And invest in SpDef (16 + 40*k) EV, with k an integer. And my personnal choice would be k=2.)
I've kind of hit a wall trying to find time to test out Curse offensive Snorlax. About CB, it certainly hits hard and does its job, but ultimately its dependence on perfect prediction really mars its ability to function as well as you'd want it to. Which is why I thought of just slashing it with Assault Vest; it surves the same basic purpose as a bulky tank, it just hits harder while trading freedom to switch moves and more special bulk. Otherwise I'm ready to implement some changes that I haven't already. And since this is a new metagame anyone have more stuff to add?
slash CB with Assault Vest imo, and i still think Curse should have its own set but ill leave it up to other qc, after thats decided ill approve.
Fat Bruiser Agree with Afro, slash in a Choice Band and also slash Return in with Body Slam (Body Slam's better with Assault Vest, Return with Band). Return is better than Frustration because most people don't bother changing Ditto's happiness. Curselax should be its own set - it's a bulky physical sweeper, whereas the Big Round Wall set is, well, a wall. I think Curselax should be the second set, but it's up to you. You could even separate the Curselax set into offensive and bulky. Curselax should be: Curse, Return/Body Slam, Earthquake, Crunch/Fire Punch. Big Round Wall - Don't bother with Return on that set. Body's Slam's paralysis chance is much more useful on that set, since it doesn't focus on power. Go with Body Slam, Rest, Sleep Talk, Whirlwind OO. Mention Double-Edge, since it hits a fair bit harder than Return. Rhyperior's moved up to UU, so Seed Bomb is only really useful for Kabutops and Quagsire. Mention Ice Punch, since it 2HKOs Gligar after Stealth Rock (doesn't need that if you're using a Choice Band) and OHKOs Mega Aerodactly after Rocks with a Choice Band. 252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Abomasnow: 276-325 (71.8 - 84.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 294-346 (74.6 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Choice Band Snorlax Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock C&C Fighting types in general, although the frailer ones can't switch in Rhyperior and Honchkrow are gone Physical walls like Gligar and Alomomola do well, but lose to the Curse set if it carries Rest Mega Aerodactyl can deal with the defensive and Assault Vest sets, but Curselax uses it as set up fodder
Hi im QC now Return should be slashed with Body Slam on the assvest set with Return as the primary option, by and large it's the better option imo Ice Punch should be the primary 4th slot on the assvest set as it hits Gligar and Mamphy better while still hitting a large majority of the things Fire Punch hits. Fire Punch should stay in tho, it does still have its uses 248/252/8 should be the EV spread of assvest set if running those EVs CB should be mentioned in OO