[Available] Zapdos

Discussion in 'UU Analyses' started by Virizion, Mar 28, 2014.

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  1. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    KACAW!!! :D

    [​IMG]

    ==General==
    *Possess very decent stats across the board, from 125 Special Attack to respectable 90 / 85 / 90 defenses.
    *Flying type therefore means it's immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and can remove them with Defog.
    *Reliable recovery in Roost, however have to watch out for Earthquake.
    *Either an offensive set or defensive set can work fantastic in this generation.
    *Not a too bad movepool for an Electric type, however lacks a reliable Special Flying-type STAB.
    *100 Base Speed Tier is really good, especially for a mainly defensive Pokemon, however does speed tie with threats such as Mega Medicham and Victini.
    *Has problems beating Special Walls such as Umbreon, who can do as they please.
    *Overall a fantastic Pokemon that can either work offensive or defensively, and has no "real" flaws to hinder it.

    ==Physically Defensive==
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Discharge / Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Heat Wave / Hidden Power [Ice]

    *The most used and most effective Zapdos set in the XY UU Tier.
    *A reason why it is used so much is because it can wall common Fighting and Flying-types well. In fact, it is able to take up to 3 hits from a Banded Staraptor's Brave Bird at max HP, a move that much of the metagame has trouble dealing with.
    *Discharge can be used to hinder the opponents team with paralysis and to be used as an Electric-type attack that doesn't force a switch-out, however Volt Switch is always there to gain some momentum to the team.
    *Roost is a reliable recovery move and can really help on the switch-ins/outs, however a boosted Ground-move can really hurt.
    *Defog is there to remove hazards, however the user must be also wary that it the move can remove their hazards too AND it is affected by Taunt.
    *Heat Wave is a very nice 95 Base Power move, and with a high chance to Burn, physical attackers will be able to do really no damage to Zapdos (provided that they don't carry Guts as an ability).
    *HP Ice can be used over Heat Wave on defensive sets to hit Zygarde and Gligar at all, and to hit Thundurus-T and Salamence slightly harder. Therefore, an IV Spread of 2 Atk / 30 Def IVs is recommended to ensure that Zapdos takes minimum damage from Foul Play.
    *The provided EVs are used to make the electric bird as physically bulky as possible, while the 248 HP EVs also allowing it to not take 25% damage from a SR switch in, and only 24.99%.

    ==Offensive==
    Zapdos @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Heat Wave
    - Defog / Roost

    *Whilst running defensive sets, Zapdos can work just as well running an offensive set.
    *With Base 125 Special Attack and Base 100 Speed, Zapdos is definitely a threat no matter what it does to the XY UU Tier!
    *Thunderbolt is the most reliable and powerful STAB that this Electric-bird of the trio possesses, and while there is Thunder, with a higher Base Power and a 30% chance to paralyze the opponent like Discharge and unlike Thunderbolt the low accuracy can often cost it more times than not.
    *Hidden Power [Ice] is used here to deal with Dragons such as Flygon and Zygarde (as none of it's other moves can really touch it) 2 Dragons that work effectively however struggle to defend themselves against Ice-type attacks. Hidden Power [Grass] could also be used though, to OHKO Swampert, Gastrodon, and Quagsire with ease, as well as it can na a nice 2HKO on Rhyperior.
    *Heat Wave is still there because it is a really effective move for Zapdos, even if it's offensive movepool is somewhat limited, it can still hit those Grass and Bug-types really hard.
    *Defog is the preferred move if Zapdos is running Leftovers, because Zapdos already gets recovery from Roost, and can remove the opposing hazards if they become a threat to them (just beware of your own hazards), while Roost is great if it runs Life Orb because how quickly it can wear this beast down.

    ==Specially Defensive==
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Discharge / Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Heat Wave / Hidden Power [Ice]

    *While it is true that Physical Defensive set is the most common variant of Zapdos, a Special Defensive set is fantastic as well.
    *Changes are that since Heat Wave has a 30% chance of burning the foe, they could face specific problems fighting a Special Defensive set with a physical attacker, provided that Zapdos achieves the burn needed.
    *This set runs exactly the same as the first one however (apart from the defenses!) because it's a really effective defensive set that allows Zapdos to do a variety of situations to gain the ally's team an advantage.
    *Roost seems even better on the Special Defensive variant because this can allow it to tank Ice Beams much more easily when Roosting, resulting in a pretty convenient scenario as a result.
    *Hidden Power [Ice] can be used over Heat Wave again, and it helps overcome common threats such as Salamence to take more damage than a Thunderbolt, and has good coverage overall.
    *Overall just as effective as a Physically Defensive variant.

    ==Other Options==
    *The most used option not on there would either be a Choice Item or a Rocky Helmet items.
    *A Choice Item is a great item to equip on Zapdos, however in this gen it feels that Choice Scarf does not as much damage as it should (even if a Modest Nature is utilised).
    *Meanwhile with Choice Specs, it would be a great item if a lot of the Pokemon in the tier could not take Special hits, which sadly isn't the case. Common Pokes such as Mega Gardevoir and Florges can take hits all-day and night, which does suck and can harm the power of what the item would normally achieve.
    *Rocky Helmet is a great move for defensive variants, as it can wear down the opponent whilst Zapdos eats up the hits and Roosts up, however a problem that could be faced is that there is no Leftovers recovery instead, so where the useful moment where the eaten-apple would come in, Rocky Helmet therefore makes this no longer the case.
    *With the decent attack stat, even a mixed movepool could be used, with Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Hidden Power and U-Turn stacked with a Life Orb, however this could wear down Zapdos too quickly, especially that it would lack both Defog and Roost.
    *Toxic, and Roar are also options to use on the defensive sets, however Zapdos still has enough power to handle most Pokemon, while Roar has a problem of replacing Roost or Defog, which is what makes the defensive options really good (though ridding boosts is really nice).
    *Substitute can be used on the defensive sets or an offensive Sub+3 Attacks set, with EVs to support it (and the item that it could be holding, either Life Orb or Leftovers), and with the right support, it can prove very effective.
    *Agility is another option on the offensive set over Defog or Roost, and since it can hit a whopping 656 Speed, outspeeding pretty much every Choice Scarfer in the game. However, one still has to make sure they can support Zapdos still, specifically that it won't be able to remove hazards anymore.
    *An offensive set with Agility+Roost set could also be used, though.
    *Metal sound can be utilised on an offensive set instead of Agility to scare specific walls out or just deal more damage with its attacks overall.
    *Hidden Power Flying can be used for a reliable Flying-type Special STAB, however does have problems KO'ing Quagsire and the like.
    *A Substitute+Baton Pass set can also be used on a Baton Pass team, and with good Special Attack, Speed, and usable defenses, Zapdos is a great user of it.

    ==Checks and Counters==
    *Zapdos is a Pokemon that has a decent bunch of checks to it however it doesn't have too many counters this generation.
    *Possibly the biggest threat to Zapdos is Rhyperior, because it can tank every single hit that the electric bird can throw at it and be KO'd in return with Rock Blast or Stone Edge, yet Hidden Power [Grass] as before nets a 2HKO, so it should still watch out.
    *A lot of the specially defensive beasts, such as Umbreon, Florges, and Porygon2 can take a big enough hit and do whatever it pleases back in return, such as summon cleric support for the team or set-up something like a Trick Room and hit-hard back in return.
    *Inflicting status (specifically burn or poison) significantly hinders it's ability to wall since after Stealth Rock and the affliction, Zapdos can already lose ~33% of it's HP.
    *Even Weavile might be able to consider a threat to this Pokemon with powerful Ice Punchs and Knock Offs, but defensive Zapdos can take a Knock Off and recover back easily, while Weavile could have problems taking those variants down.
    *Thundurus-T can take a Heat-Wave, whilst it dealing powerful Thunderbolts in return (Choice Specs or Life Orb varients).
    *Basically any Pokemon that can take a hit well and hit really hard in return can deal with Zapdos, provided that it's not weakened.

    I probably missed a bunch of Checks and Counters, but please give me feedback saying what I missed! Thanks a lot guys. :)
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  2. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Heat Wave has a 10% chance of burning the target. Might wanna amend that lol.

    I'd personally leave physical sets out, tbh. They don't really offer anything a special set can't do, aside from the gimmick of KOing Mega Heracross or Virizion or something with Drill Peck lol.

    Lastly, you probably wanna mention that physically defensive Zapdos wants to be more careful when Roosting then special, because the moves it likes to come in on (Fighting and Ground) hit it harder when it is Roosting, while specially defensive tanks Ice Beams much more easily when Roosting. Something about this scenario could probably be a good idea.
     
  3. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Oh right, I thought it was a 30% chance, I must have looked in the wrong place. XD
    Sure I'll be able to remove the physical set tomorrow if you want, and yeah I'll mention a little more about Roost in detail (I didn't know how much in detail it was supposed to be for a skeleton haha). Thanks Spoovo! :)
     
  4. VuvuzelaΒzz

    VuvuzelaΒzz •Sage

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    Agility should be mentioned in Other Options for the offensive set, and could possibly even be slashed in on it's fourth slot. I'm also going to second removing the mention of it going physically offensive, even though it seems you're going to do that anyway.
     
  5. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    I've done all the changes now, and I can edit stuff again, due to the fact that I got my Internet back. :)
     
  6. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    HP Ice should definitely be slashed by Heat Wave on defensive sets to hit Zygarde and Gliscor at all, and to hit Thundurus-T and Salamence slightly harder. Agility could be moved into the Offensive set as a slash, but that's your call.

    If you want any QC stamps of approval, you should change the tag using Thread Tools at the top right hand corner of the thread :]
     
  7. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Gliscor ain't UU @Epikhairz

    Agreeing w/ Epik's changes

    Slash Hp grass w/ ice on offensive set for pert/Rhyp/Gastro/quag

    I like SDef being first set as it's the best one, IMO, but the current order will suffice for sets, I guesssss

    HP Fly, Sub+BP, Offensive AgiliRoost (or was that what Vuvu was getting at?), and metal sound should all be OOd.

    Pokemon like Darm and Medi don't deserve CC mentions - stick to the best checks like Rhyperior, Swampert, Umbreon, Florges, Zygarde (non-HPIce), SR damage, Snorlax, Haxorus (non-HP Ice), Gastro/quag, Amoonguss (non-offensive), etc.
     
  8. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    ^welp i was thinking about gligar but i forgot that it sucks balls

    Anyways, @Virizion are you still working on this? You have 48 hours to respond.
     
  9. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Yeah sorry, I've been having some real-life issues at the moment, and it doesn't really help when I have multiple things going on in once, and I really wasn't expecting this. I'm really sorry, I can get it done now.

    EDIT: Changes have been made, hopefully this can be approved now. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  10. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    In the first two sets, the first bullets of both sets contradict each other; both bullets say that "this set is the best and most used", so that should be fixed so that only one of them says that. And by the way, I did a quick check of the usage stats, and the most used sets are a mixed defensive set with this spread - 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd, and then the Physically Defensive set, so probably say that the Physically Defensive set is most used, and leave that part out in the Specially Defensive set.

    I believe that physically defensive Zapdos is its best set, simply because it makes walling common Fighting-types like Breloom, as well as allowing it to handle Flying-types. It is able to take up to 3 hits from a Banded Staraptor's Brave Bird at max HP, a move that much of the metagame has trouble dealing with. I would like to hear other QCs thoughts on this matter though. Both sets are good though, so I guess you can leave it in this order, but if you are going to explicitly say that a set is "its best" or "most effective", put that first

    sorry if this post might be a little long and convoluted :x

    tl;dr - remove "most used set" mention from Specially Defensive; if you say a set is its best put it first; I think Physically Defensive is the best set, but I'd like to hear from other QC
     
  11. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    ^I believe that was originally the case, but he swapped the sets around on someone's command without altering the set comments much.
     
  12. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    the order of the sets I personally think they should go in is:

    1. physically defensive
    2. offensive
    3. specially defensive

    Basically agreeing with epik on set comment issues. Also I believe that a set of max hp max speed shouldn't be it's own set. Zapdos need to fully invest in either or to be a good wall. The speed isn't going to help it in the longrun.

    Finally mention in checks and counters that putting a burn or poison on it significantly hinders it's ability to wall since after stealth rocks and poison / burn, about a third of it's hp will be gone.
     
  13. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    @Virizion please make the changes suggested by Daybreak and myself and you get QC 1/3. Watch this thread if you haven't already so you don't keep forgetting about this, as you haven't made an edit since April 26 (btw I will reassign if I don't get a response in 48 hours)

    Tagging @Afro Smash and @Finchinator so they can see if they agree with the stuff and QC check, but Finch is being a bitch with his 3k post and probably isn't going to post directly :x
     
  14. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Alright, time for editing. Just saying, I'm not gonna make any more threads for a while anyways because of other stuff to do, and I now watched the thread (which I really should have before). Sorry about this.

    EDIT: Done, I decided to alter/rephrase yours (Epik) and Daybreak's comments slightly for yours and my convenience.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  15. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Am I the only one who uses Thunderbolt over Discharge on phys def Zapdos? Probably cause I also run Toxic instead of coverage, but Thunderbolt I find more useful with the added BP and there are times I /don’t/ want to switch out of a mon, but eh. I understand if people think Thunderbolt doesn’t deserve a mention although it does have its merits(84% chance to 2HKO Weavile which commonly runs LO, 98% chance to 2HKO 252 HP Scolipede) while Heat Wave doesn’t really score any significant OHKOs (can’t OHKO Luke, Sp Def Jirachi still walls it) which is why I think Thunderbolt + Toxic is the way to go in addition to Defog and Roost. Heat Wave hits Amoonguss, Roserade, Steelix, and Magnezone, but Toxic allows Zapdos to always Defog rocks away from Donphan/Rhyperior/Swampert which are the matchups against Zapdos you’ll see more often.

    Also small nitpick here but I believe Defog Gligar can be poisoned, so that’s one less thing you really need to hit with HP Ice (the OHKO is nice, but not that pressing).

    On the LO set, might want to mention Hydreigon as a Dragon HP ice hits (2HKO with rocks or any prior damage) over Flygon, cause it’s less common.

    Does the Specially Defensive set really deserve its own set? Couldn’t you just put that in set comments for the physically defensive set or OO?

    Mention a spread of Modest 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spd for the Agility option which allows you to outspeed Kingdra in the rain after an Agility.

    Add Mega Manectric and Raikou along with Thundy-T. Former can possibly get a Lightningrod boost pre-Mega while Raikou can sub on Zapdos’ face.

    Ground-type counters vary according to Hidden Power – Zygarde counters HP Grass sets, while Rhyperior/Swampert/Gastro take on HP Ice sets.

    Your call if you want to put down Latias since she might move up, but she is a good counter that can also set up on Zapdos.
     
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  16. Daybreak

    Daybreak can't touch this

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    Yeah defog gligar can be poisoned since illegal combo and stuff.

    Thunderbolt I can agree to being there over discharge and discharge in set comments.

    Basically agree with the other comments windblown mentioned
     
  17. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Going to be updated tomorrow, with all the mentioned suggestions added in. I'm so bad at this oml
     
  18. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    Hey @Virizion , I really don't want to have to constantly remind you this, but will you be working on this? This is the third time I've had to bump this thread when changes have not been made, and it's been nearly a month, so I really hope you can stay focused on this. If you can't work on this any longer, it's no big deal, I will just reassign it.

    Once again, you have 48 hours to respond before I lock this thread and reassign.

    Oh, and when can I expect a Snorlax analysis up?
     
  19. somerandomguy

    somerandomguy Active Member

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    Mention in Other Options that Tailwind can be used to support the team. QC 2/3
     
  20. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    48 hours have come and gone, and there's been no response. Locking and making this available for reservation.

    If you would like to continue to work on it, and it hasn't been reassigned yet, PM me and I'll unlock it for you.

    EDIT: LOL things sorted themselves out and now Zapdos is banned from XY UU
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
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