Overview The King of Ubers is back for a new generation, and the whale is just as threatening as before. A good Special Attack stat, Drizzle and access to Water Spout boost Kyogre's power to obscene levels and allow it to abuse choice items very well. Kyogre also has good special bulk allowing it to take many hits, and can abuse this bulk to run a status absorbing set that works very well in this status-heavy metagame. There are downsides to Kyogre though. It cannot take powerful physical hits well, and its speed is rather lacking without a Choice Scarf. Furthermore, the change to weather abilities means that Kyogre can no longer support the team with permanent rain, although five turns are more than enough to wreak havoc with powerful water attacks. Choice Scarf Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump - Thunder - Ice Beam Choice Scarf Kyogre is an amazing revenge killer for balanced teams and some defensive teams, as well as a good late game cleaner. Water Spout is the main move, letting Kyogre OHKO many Pokemon as long as it is at full health. A second water move is used when Kyogre is lower at health, and is still strong enough to clean up most of the time. Thunder gives coverage against opposing Water types, and has a very nice paralysis rate too. Ice Beam gives coverage against dragons, and is also the strongest move against grass types. Scald could be used as an alternative option for the burn rate, but is weaker than Surf or Hydro Pump. A Modest nature is generally more useful because Kyogre needs the extra power, but Timid lets you outspeed Deoxys-A and most scarfed Xerneas. This makes a Timid nature a good option for more defensive teams that lack a good way to deal with Deoxys-A. You can possibly run Hydro Pump when using a Timid nature to make up for the power loss. When using Kyogre, try to keep its health high to keep up the power of Water Spout, and try to use it mostly for revenge killing. Note though that against teams without a water resist, Kyogre can wallbreak effectively even with a Choice Scarf. Choice Specs Kyogre @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald - Thunder - Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass] / Sleep Talk With a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre boosts its power even more to become a terrifying wallbreaker. Even the great special wall Chansey is 2HKOed on the switch, and Zekrom has a chance to be OHKOed despite resisting Water. As with the scarf set, Water Spout is the main move for insane power, the second water move lets you hit hard at low health, and Thunder gives coverage against Water types. Ice Beam is generally the most useful move in the last slot to hit dragons, but should only be used in very specific situations. If your team struggles with Gastrodon or Darkrai, you can opt to use Hidden Power [Grass] or Sleep Talk, respectively, instead. A Timid nature is used to patch up the low speed and allows you to tie or outspeed some versions of Dialga, Groudon, Ho-oh, Xerneas, and Zekrom. A Modest nature can be used instead and gives even more power, netting you the 2HKO on Chansey and Giratina in some situations, as well as the OHKO on some offensive dragons. Specs Kyogre is a wallbreaker, so you should try to bring it in as often as you can, as it always hits something hard. Do try to keep Kyogre's health up for a powerful Water Spout. Getting Kyogre in with a double switche or Volt Switch/U-turn works very well in this regard. Choice Specs Kyogre is rather slow, which makes it not so good late game, so try to use it as often as you can early on. Specially Defensive Kyogre @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Scald - Roar With this set Kyogre becomes a great special wall and easily deals with all the status being thrown around. Scald is the best option for the attacking move, as it makes physical attackers think twice before switching in and can burn some walls too. Roar deals with anything trying to set up, and makes Kyogre a great counter to non-Electric CM Arceus. With its great Special Defense, Kyogre can easily take water moves from opposing Palkia and Kyogre, as well as counter most special dragons. Kyogre is also a good counter to more bulky Pokemon, like support Arceus formes, Lugia and most bulky Steel types. It should be noted that a healthy Kyogre can take even a +2 Thunder from Xerneas and phaze it, although obviously this should not be your only Xerneas check. Note also that this Kyogre is purely a special wall, and despite the HP investment it still has trouble taking on strong physical attackers. Good Partners The good partners for Kyogre can be divided up into several categories. Firstly, the trappers Gengar and Gothitelle can remove checks and counters to Kyogre like Chansey and Arceus-Water/Grass. It is also very important to have good defensive synergy with Kyogre. Palkia checks like Ferrothorn and Arceus-Grass are especially welcome, as Kyogre powers up the Water moves of opposing Palkia. Ground types like Landorus-T and Gliscor also provide good defensive synergy, taking on opposing Zekrom easily and also being able to switch into opposing Kyogre using Thunder. Next, hazard control is very good when using Kyogre. Removing hazards on your side lets you keep Water Spout at full power, and putting hazards on the opponent's side helps with the many switches Kyogre causes. Kyogre also works well on Sticky Web teams, as it gives Specs Kyogre the speed necessary to sweep. Users of Volt Switch or U-turn also pair up well with Kyogre, letting it come in without taking any damage which is great especially for Specs Kyogre. Finally, anything that enjoys playing in rain can team up well with Kyogre, this ranges from boosting Palkia's Water moves to removing the fire weakness of defensive Steel types. Note though that rain is not permanent anymore, which especially hurts the Swift Swim users that were rather common last generation but don't work well anymore. Other Options For the choice sets there are no real other options, so here we are considering different sets. Kyogre learns Calm Mind, which could be used on a variety of sets. Using it alongside three attacks can threating certain teams, but is generally outclassed by Choice Specs as a wallbreaker. Calm Mind can also be used on a physically defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk, but this set doesn't work so well anymore after the Drizzle nerf and is rather easily phazed. A physically defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could also be used with Roar, if your team needs a status absorber that deals with Extremekiller, Groudon and some Ho-oh. Kyogre can also spread status like Thunder Wave or Toxic on a set with either Leftovers or Rest + Chesto Berry to surprise some counters like Palkia. Finally, Kyogre could hold a Damp Rock to keep up rain for longer to support teammates like Swift Swimmers. Note by the way that you can get some surprise kills on Landorus-T or Gliscor if you manage to bluff a choice item with either of these sets. Checks and Counters Palkia is the most important Kyogre counter, as it resists Water 4x and even uses Kyogre's rain to boost its own Water attacks. Gastrodon completely walls any version of Kyogre unless it runs the rare Hidden Power [Grass]. Grass types like Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist water and are good counters, Ferrothorn cannot switch into Specs Kyogre though. Defensive Water types like Arceus-Water and Specially Defensive Kyogre also work well, but they do not like Thunder or Specs water moves. Note that an important difference between Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Water is that Arceus-Water cannot do much back to Kyogre. Chansey and Blissey can counter Scarf Kyogre and stall Specs Kyogre of out rain turns, but they cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. The uncommon Assault Vest Amoonguss can take all moves pretty well and threatens Kyogre with a powerful Grass Knot. Specially Defensive dragons like Giratina and Dialga can deal with Kyogre most of the time, Dialga has to watch out for Specs Kyogre though. Zekrom threatens to KO Kyogre with Bolt Strike and can come in on a predicted Thunder. Scarfed Genesect can some in on a revenge kill to use U-turn safely to threaten Kyogre and keep momentum. Priority moves from Yveltal, Extremekiller Arceus and Kangaskhan can finish off Kyogre pretty well. If Kyogre lacks a Choice Scarf, powerful attackers like Mewtwo can check it well. In general, keeping up hazards against Kyogre is very useful, because Kyogre switches often and the power of Water Spout is lowered.
Sets look pretty good Add sticky web to partners for specs ogre Apparently twave 3 atks ogre is good as it messes with palkia, but I've never tried it Add spdef gira to c&c, it's one of the few things that isn't 2hkoed by specs ogre
That was fast lol I mean as a main set with twave/surf/thunder/ice beam, but I'd like to hear the opinions of others for this
Looks solid. Mention Specially Defensive Dialga on Checks/Counters as it counters Scarf set, can generally annoy Specially Defensive with its own phazing (tho that depends on the speed creeps), and can quickly wear down Specs via Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor/Phazing+Hazards if it got a free switch in. It normally tends to get up Stealth rocks as well against most Kyogres. Its T-wave support hampers Offensive sets as well (and even specially defensive sets when they WANTED TO REST BUT GET PARAHAXED) Sub/CM is usable against Gastrodons who seek to counter it, but it's kinda like HP grass. Maybe in Other Options.
I feel like team options is a bit long, but other than that it looks pretty great. Physically Defensive Kyogre was pretty decent in BW2 too, it still checks things like Ekiller, Ho-OH and now M Blaziken too I think, so it should get a mention somewhere. I never thought the Twave spreading set was all that good, it's good as it sits in OO now. Great job!
I think you should slash Modest/Timid on Choice sets, the idea of choiced Kyogre is to nuke the opposing team, its power reduces a lot if you run Timid Kyogre (Which I don't like at all).
Updated a little. Added SDef Dialga to CC and physically defensive to OO. +2 Blaziken OHKOs most of the time though. For specs Kyogre I think Timid is really good, as Kyogre is one of the few offensive base 90s that can run a positive nature without losing too much power. Modest is in the comments, and I think it's usually inferior.
Specs Kyogre doesnt need speed, it just forces switches whenever it comes in. Either they switch or they die, it's that simple.
@Edgar Timid is perfectly viable with a lot of base 90s now investing on speed. Adamant Banded Ho-oh, Offensive Groudon, And now Modest Xerneas as well. However, Modest nature should input a different speed investment, probably up to the point where Ogre's speed becomes 260+ to outpace common Lugia. And yeah at least slash Modest on Specs and Timid on Scarf. They DO have specific roles where they are more than usable just as much as the other. Also, what extra kills does Scarf Modest get? I'm pretty sure Palkia doesn't get the 2hko via Thunder, and Dialga still tanks 2 Water spouts at full health. Timid allows it to tie with other common scarfers in the meta, mainly Zekrom. It also outpaces 95 neutral bases as well. To be honest I think the only scarfer that should be going neutral base is Dialga, seeing how it already beats all other common scarfers 1-on-1.
OHKO on Arceus, Lugia and some Groudon, Surf OHKO on Ho-oh and Mewtwo(-X) and some more I believe but can't be bothered looking up now.
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Rain: 351-414 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Rain: 382-451 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO At best 12 percent. 252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia in Rain: 291-343 (69.9 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Don't know what you meant in case of 1hko on Lugia. Maybe mention Stealth Rocks? Then it has a large chance to 1hko. But then, Timid can do the same, albeit with a lower chance. Also, 252+ SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mewtwo X in Rain: 271-319 (76.7 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Nope. 252+ SpA Kyogre Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in Rain: 295-348 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Nope here too. Groudon and Ho-oh... would any of them ever stay in on a Ogre? Especially Ho-oh in rain? Also, the only notable KOs is Offensive Groudon, which honestly wouldn't want to stay in. For Ho-oh, it's only 252 HP Ho-ohs, which are... rare since many tend to put some EVs out of HP and put them into speed for creeps. Even Sub Ho-ohs tend to input only enough EVs to get 101 EVs. Also, keep in mind that All the surf-KOs can be covered by Timid Ogre with Hydro Pump. I really think Timid is a must slash-in for Scarf. Since outpacing/tying base 90s and neutral 99/95s are very important as a scarfer. Timid Scarf is just as viable as Modest scarf, and same goes for the Modest Specs. But yeah Specs needs Modest on the back as there are only few notable KOs, such as Chansey with a large defense investment. I want some other QC's thoughts on this.
Seconding Edgar on the Modest specs Ogre thing. Not that timid is useless, but modest is by no means "inferior" unless you try it yourself in see the nuking damage it does. It's also better on stuff like sticky web teams etc. The power difference is definitely worth a slash. @Ramile, how timid scarf is as viable as modest? It loses a lot of power, and beats the purpose of "spamming" water spouts. There aren't many 90 base scarf users, so I think modest is better by all means as opposing scarf Ogre can't OHKO with thunder, and most likely you're gonna be switching out of thunders anyways since a shit loads of stuff resists it in ubers. Also, mention that Scarf Kyogre is good on stall, too, as it cleans up stuff pretty neat.
@Leon Most base 90s - 95 carry scarf. The main point being Zekrom. Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Genesect, Kyurem-W, Dialga, Reshiramlol resh Not only that, Deo-A is still a large threat and if one lacks good priority or wants to save their Scizor/EK for later, Kyogre can always kinda back it up by revenging it. Finally, take a look at the calcs I posted above. They don't seem to make too much differences right? Not to mention most of the kills from Modest Surf can be covered up via Timid Hydro Pump in exchange for a shaky accuracy. After rethinking it, I get the the notion that Modest definitely isn't inferior to Timid, but that they are kinda equally viable. It really depends on the teammates, but if one does not have something that can outpace opposing Postive 90s, then Timid is a must. Yet, for other teams with a lot of viable priorities at hand, it probably isn't as good and one should go Modest. For example, as Leon said, not a lot of stall-based teams carry too much priority, so a Timid Ogre would be better for cleanups. While in Offense with Extreme Killer/Scizor/Deo-A/Ray and the like, it would be much more useful to carry Modest.
Well, apparently it is not clear which natures are best, so I've added all possibilities in. Timid on the scarf set is really a lot weaker (smh Ramiel add rocks to the calcs), but beating Deoxys-A is very important for balanced/defensive teams that lack anything to switch into Psycho Boost/Knock Off. Hydro Pump is a good mention btw, I've specifically noted it for Timid. I'll probably want to add something along the lines of only using Timid if you're weak to Deoxys-A and maybe if you're weak to scarf Xerneas, is that ok with you guys? Modest on specs doesn't add too many crucial kills, I can only think of 2HKOs on some Giratina and Chansey and OHKOs on some Dialga. I've added it in for now, but I want other QC's opinions too. One very good reason to run Timid is that I constantly see people try to revenge me with Xerneas or even Ho-oh after seeing it's specs, which gives me a free kill because I run Timid.
SMH FIXED THEN TELL ME THAT U HAD ROCKS IN MIND BEFORE TELLING ME IT FLAT OUT 1HKOS STUFF QC.... APPROVED! (1/3) I'm approving since I'm in favor of both Timid and Modest being equally viable in the meta. Keep up the good work! :)
this is gonna start feeling spammy doing this for every analysis, but I uploaded http://wiki.pokemon-online.eu/page/Kyogre#tab=ORAS_Ubers still pending grammar checks though.
here's a grammar check. moved the options section in not wiki version to the end since wiki version had it there. wiki version just covers oras stuff Spoiler: not wiki Overview The King of Ubers is back for a new generation, and the whale is just as threatening as before. A good Special Attack stat, Drizzle and access to Water Spout boost Kyogre's power to obscene levels and allow it to abuse choice items very well. Kyogre also has good special bulk, which it can use to run a status absorbing set that works well in this status-heavy metagame. There are downsides to Kyogre though. It cannot take powerful physical hits well, and its Speed is rather lacking without a Choice Scarf. Furthermore, the change to weather abilities means that Kyogre can no longer support the team with permanent rain, although five turns are more than enough to wreak havoc with powerful water attacks. Choice Scarf Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump - Thunder - Ice Beam Choice Scarf Kyogre is an amazing revenge killer for balanced teams and some defensive teams, as well as a good late-game cleaner. Water Spout is the main move, letting Kyogre OHKO many Pokémon as long as it is at full health. A second Water move is used when Kyogre has less health and is still strong enough to clean up most of the time. Thunder gives coverage against opposing Water-types and has a nice paralysis rate too. Ice Beam gives coverage against Dragons and is also the strongest move against Grass-types. Scald could be used as an alternate option for the burn rate, but it is weaker than Surf or Hydro Pump. A Modest nature is generally more useful because Kyogre needs the extra power, but Timid lets you outspeed Deoxys-A and most Scarf Xerneas. This makes Timid a good option for more defensive teams that lack a good way to deal with Deoxys-A. You can possibly run Hydro Pump when using a Timid nature to make up for the power loss. When using Kyogre, try to keep its health high to keep up Water Spout's power, and try to use it mostly for revenge killing. Note though that against teams without a Water resist, Kyogre can wallbreak effectively even with a Choice Scarf. Choice Specs Kyogre @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald - Thunder - Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass] / Sleep Talk With a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre boosts its power even more to become a terrifying wallbreaker. Even the great special wall Chansey is 2HKOed on the switch, and Zekrom has a chance to be OHKOed despite resisting Water. As with the Scarf set, Water Spout is the main move for insane power, the second Water move lets you hit hard at low health, and Thunder gives coverage against Water-types. Ice Beam is generally the most useful move in the last slot to hit Dragons but should only be used in specific situations. If your team struggles with Gastrodon or Darkrai, you can opt to use Hidden Power [Grass] or Sleep Talk, respectively, instead. A Timid nature is used to patch up the low Speed and allows you to tie or outspeed some versions of Dialga, Groudon, Ho-oh, Xerneas, and Zekrom. A Modest nature can be used instead for even more power, netting the 2HKO on Chansey and Giratina in some situations, as well as the OHKO on some offensive Dragons. Specs Kyogre is a wallbreaker, so you should try to bring it in as early and often as possible, as it's slow but always hits something hard. Try to keep Kyogre's HP up for a powerful Water Spout. Getting Kyogre in with a double switch or Volt Switch/U-turn works well in this regard. Specially Defensive Kyogre @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Scald - Roar With this set, Kyogre becomes a great special wall and easily deals with any status being thrown around. Scald is the best option for the attacking move, as it makes physical attackers think twice before switching in and can burn walls too. Roar deals with anything trying to set up and makes Kyogre a great counter to non-Electric Calm Mind Arceus. With its great Special Defense, Kyogre can easily take Water moves from opposing Palkia and Kyogre, as well as counter most special Dragons. Kyogre is also a good counter to bulkier Pokémon, like support Arceus formes, Lugia and most bulky Steel-types. It should be noted that a healthy Kyogre can take even a +2 Thunder from Xerneas and phaze it, although this should not be your only Xerneas check. Note also that this Kyogre is purely a special wall, and despite the HP investment, it has trouble taking on strong physical attackers. Good Partners The good partners for Kyogre can be divided up into several categories. Firstly, the trappers Gengar and Gothitelle can remove checks and counters to Kyogre like Chansey and Arceus-Water/Grass. It is also important to have good defensive synergy with Kyogre. Palkia checks like Ferrothorn and Arceus-Grass are especially welcome, as Kyogre powers up the Water moves of opposing Palkia. Ground-types like Landorus-T and Gliscor also provide good defensive synergy, taking on opposing Zekrom easily while also being able to switch into opposing Kyogre using Thunder. Next, hazard control is good when using Kyogre. Removing hazards on your side lets you keep Water Spout at full power, and putting hazards on the opponent's side helps with the many switches Kyogre causes. Kyogre also works well on Sticky Web teams, as it gives Specs Kyogre the Speed necessary to sweep. Users of Volt Switch or U-turn also pair well with Kyogre, letting it come in without taking damage, which is especially great for Specs Kyogre. Finally, anything that enjoys playing in rain can team up well with Kyogre. This ranges from boosting Palkia's Water moves to removing the Fire weakness of defensive Steel-types. Note though that rain is no longer permanent, which especially hurts the Swift Swim users that were common last generation. Checks and Counters Palkia is the most important Kyogre counter, as it resists Water 4x and even uses Kyogre's rain to boost its own Water attacks. Gastrodon completely walls Kyogre unless it runs the rare Hidden Power [Grass]. Grass-types like Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist Water and are good counters, though Ferrothorn cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. Defensive Water-types like Arceus-Water and specially defensive Kyogre also work well, but they do not like Thunder or Choice Specs-boosted Water moves. Note that an important difference between Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Water is that Arceus-Water cannot do much back to Kyogre. Chansey and Blissey can counter Scarf Kyogre and stall Specs Kyogre out of rain turns, but they cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. The uncommon Assault Vest Amoonguss can take all moves well and threaten Kyogre with a powerful Grass Knot. Specially defensive Dragons like Giratina and Dialga can deal with Kyogre most of the time, though Dialga has to watch out for Specs Kyogre. Zekrom threatens to KO Kyogre with Bolt Strike and can come in on a predicted Thunder. Scarf Genesect can come in on a revenge kill to use U-turn safely, threatening Kyogre while keeping momentum. Priority moves from Yveltal, ExtremeKiller Arceus and Kangaskhan can finish off Kyogre pretty well. If Kyogre lacks a Choice Scarf, powerful attackers like Mewtwo can check it well. In general, keeping up hazards against Kyogre is useful, because Kyogre switches often and the power of Water Spout is lowered. Options There are no real other options for the Choice sets, but other sets are viable. Kyogre learns Calm Mind, which could be used on a variety of sets. Using it alongside three attacks can threaten certain teams but is generally outclassed by Choice Specs as a wallbreaker. Calm Mind can also be used on a physically defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk, but this set doesn't work as well due to the Drizzle nerf and is easily phazed. A physically defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could also be used with Roar, if your team needs a status absorber that deals with Extremekiller, Groudon and some Ho-oh. Kyogre can also spread status like Thunder Wave or Toxic on a set with either Leftovers or Rest + Chesto Berry to surprise some counters like Palkia. Finally, Kyogre could hold a Damp Rock to keep rain up longer to support teammates like Swift Swimmers. Note that you can get some surprise KOs on Landorus-T or Gliscor if you manage to bluff a Choice item with either of these sets. Spoiler: wiki {{tier|ORAS Ubers}} {{Overview|The King of Ubers is back for a new generation, and the whale is just as threatening as before. A good Special Attack stat, Drizzle and access to Water Spout boost Kyogre's power to obscene levels and allow it to abuse choice items very well. Kyogre also has good special bulk, which it can use to run a status absorbing set that works well in this status-heavy metagame. There are downsides to Kyogre though. It cannot take powerful physical hits well, and its Speed is rather lacking without a Choice Scarf. Furthermore, the change to weather abilities means that Kyogre can no longer support the team with permanent rain, although five turns are more than enough to wreak havoc with powerful water attacks.}} {{set|Choice Scarf| Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump - Thunder - Ice Beam }} {{Comments|Choice Scarf Kyogre is an amazing revenge killer for balanced teams and some defensive teams, as well as a good late-game cleaner. Water Spout is the main move, letting Kyogre OHKO many Pokémon as long as it is at full health. A second Water move is used when Kyogre has less health and is still strong enough to clean up most of the time. Thunder gives coverage against opposing Water-types and has a nice paralysis rate too. Ice Beam gives coverage against Dragons and is also the strongest move against Grass-types. Scald could be used as an alternate option for the burn rate, but it is weaker than Surf or Hydro Pump. A Modest nature is generally more useful because Kyogre needs the extra power, but Timid lets you outspeed Deoxys-A and most Scarf Xerneas. This makes Timid a good option for more defensive teams that lack a good way to deal with Deoxys-A. You can possibly run Hydro Pump when using a Timid nature to make up for the power loss. When using Kyogre, try to keep its health high to keep up Water Spout's power, and try to use it mostly for revenge killing. Note though that against teams without a Water resist, Kyogre can wallbreak effectively even with a Choice Scarf.}} {{set|Choice Specs| Kyogre @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald - Thunder - Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass] / Sleep Talk }} {{Comments|With a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre boosts its power even more to become a terrifying wallbreaker. Even the great special wall Chansey is 2HKOed on the switch, and Zekrom has a chance to be OHKOed despite resisting Water. As with the Scarf set, Water Spout is the main move for insane power, the second Water move lets you hit hard at low health, and Thunder gives coverage against Water-types. Ice Beam is generally the most useful move in the last slot to hit Dragons but should only be used in specific situations. If your team struggles with Gastrodon or Darkrai, you can opt to use Hidden Power [Grass] or Sleep Talk, respectively, instead. A Timid nature is used to patch up the low Speed and allows you to tie or outspeed some versions of Dialga, Groudon, Ho-oh, Xerneas, and Zekrom. A Modest nature can be used instead for even more power, netting the 2HKO on Chansey and Giratina in some situations, as well as the OHKO on some offensive Dragons. Specs Kyogre is a wallbreaker, so you should try to bring it in as early and often as possible, as it's slow but always hits something hard. Try to keep Kyogre's HP up for a powerful Water Spout. Getting Kyogre in with a double switch or Volt Switch/U-turn works well in this regard.}} {{set|Specially Defensive| Kyogre @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Scald - Roar }} {{Comments|With this set, Kyogre becomes a great special wall and easily deals with any status being thrown around. Scald is the best option for the attacking move, as it makes physical attackers think twice before switching in and can burn walls too. Roar deals with anything trying to set up and makes Kyogre a great counter to non-Electric Calm Mind Arceus. With its great Special Defense, Kyogre can easily take Water moves from opposing Palkia and Kyogre, as well as counter most special Dragons. Kyogre is also a good counter to bulkier Pokémon, like support Arceus formes, Lugia and most bulky Steel-types. It should be noted that a healthy Kyogre can take even a +2 Thunder from Xerneas and phaze it, although this should not be your only Xerneas check. Note also that this Kyogre is purely a special wall, and despite the HP investment, it has trouble taking on strong physical attackers.}} {{Synergy|The good partners for Kyogre can be divided up into several categories. Firstly, the trappers Gengar and Gothitelle can remove checks and counters to Kyogre like Chansey and Arceus-Water/Grass. It is also important to have good defensive synergy with Kyogre. Palkia checks like Ferrothorn and Arceus-Grass are especially welcome, as Kyogre powers up the Water moves of opposing Palkia. Ground-types like Landorus-T and Gliscor also provide good defensive synergy, taking on opposing Zekrom easily while also being able to switch into opposing Kyogre using Thunder. Next, hazard control is good when using Kyogre. Removing hazards on your side lets you keep Water Spout at full power, and putting hazards on the opponent's side helps with the many switches Kyogre causes. Kyogre also works well on Sticky Web teams, as it gives Specs Kyogre the Speed necessary to sweep. Users of Volt Switch or U-turn also pair well with Kyogre, letting it come in without taking damage, which is especially great for Specs Kyogre. Finally, anything that enjoys playing in rain can team up well with Kyogre. This ranges from boosting Palkia's Water moves to removing the Fire weakness of defensive Steel-types. Note though that rain is no longer permanent, which especially hurts the Swift Swim users that were common last generation.}} {{Checks|Palkia is the most important Kyogre counter, as it resists Water 4x and even uses Kyogre's rain to boost its own Water attacks. Gastrodon completely walls Kyogre unless it runs the rare Hidden Power [Grass]. Grass-types like Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist Water and are good counters, though Ferrothorn cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. Defensive Water-types like Arceus-Water and specially defensive Kyogre also work well, but they do not like Thunder or Choice Specs-boosted Water moves. Note that an important difference between Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Water is that Arceus-Water cannot do much back to Kyogre. Chansey and Blissey can counter Scarf Kyogre and stall Specs Kyogre out of rain turns, but they cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. The uncommon Assault Vest Amoonguss can take all moves well and threaten Kyogre with a powerful Grass Knot. Specially defensive Dragons like Giratina and Dialga can deal with Kyogre most of the time, though Dialga has to watch out for Specs Kyogre. Zekrom threatens to KO Kyogre with Bolt Strike and can come in on a predicted Thunder. Scarf Genesect can come in on a revenge kill to use U-turn safely, threatening Kyogre while keeping momentum. Priority moves from Yveltal, ExtremeKiller Arceus and Kangaskhan can finish off Kyogre pretty well. If Kyogre lacks a Choice Scarf, powerful attackers like Mewtwo can check it well. In general, keeping up hazards against Kyogre is useful, because Kyogre switches often and the power of Water Spout is lowered.}} {{Options|There are no real other options for the Choice sets, but other sets are viable. Kyogre learns Calm Mind, which could be used on a variety of sets. Using it alongside three attacks can threaten certain teams but is generally outclassed by Choice Specs as a wallbreaker. Calm Mind can also be used on a physically defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk, but this set doesn't work as well due to the Drizzle nerf and is easily phazed. A physically defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could also be used with Roar, if your team needs a status absorber that deals with Extremekiller, Groudon and some Ho-oh. Kyogre can also spread status like Thunder Wave or Toxic on a set with either Leftovers or Rest + Chesto Berry to surprise some counters like Palkia. Finally, Kyogre could hold a Damp Rock to keep rain up longer to support teammates like Swift Swimmers. Note that you can get some surprise KOs on Landorus-T or Gliscor if you manage to bluff a Choice item with either of these sets.}} {{footer}} Spoiler: edits Overview The King of Ubers is back for a new generation, and the whale is just as threatening as before. A good Special Attack stat, Drizzle and access to Water Spout boost Kyogre's power to obscene levels and allow it to abuse choice items very well. Kyogre also has good special bulk allowing it to take many h, which its, and can abuse this bulk to run a status absorbing set that works very well in this status-heavy metagame. There are downsides to Kyogre though. It cannot take powerful physical hits well, and its sSpeed is rather lacking without a Choice Scarf. Furthermore, the change to weather abilities means that Kyogre can no longer support the team with permanent rain, although five turns are more than enough to wreak havoc with powerful water attacks. Choice Scarf Kyogre @ Choice Scarf Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) / Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump - Thunder - Ice Beam Choice Scarf Kyogre is an amazing revenge killer for balanced teams and some defensive teams, as well as a good late -game cleaner. Water Spout is the main move, letting Kyogre OHKO many Pokeémon as long as it is at full health. A second wWater move is used when Kyogre ihas lower atess health, and is still strong enough to clean up most of the time. Thunder gives coverage against opposing Water -types, and has a very nice paralysis rate too. Ice Beam gives coverage against dDragons, and is also the strongest move against gGrass -types. Scald could be used as an alternative option for the burn rate, but it is weaker than Surf or Hydro Pump. A Modest nature is generally more useful because Kyogre needs the extra power, but Timid lets you outspeed Deoxys-A and most sScarfed Xerneas. This makes a Timid nature a good option for more defensive teams that lack a good way to deal with Deoxys-A. You can possibly run Hydro Pump when using a Timid nature to make up for the power loss. When using Kyogre, try to keep its health high to keep up the power of Water Spout's power, and try to use it mostly for revenge killing. Note though that against teams without a wWater resist, Kyogre can wallbreak effectively even with a Choice Scarf. Choice Specs Kyogre @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) / Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Water Spout - Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald - Thunder - Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass] / Sleep Talk With a pair of Choice Specs, Kyogre boosts its power even more to become a terrifying wallbreaker. Even the great special wall Chansey is 2HKOed on the switch, and Zekrom has a chance to be OHKOed despite resisting Water. As with the sScarf set, Water Spout is the main move for insane power, the second wWater move lets you hit hard at low health, and Thunder gives coverage against Water -types. Ice Beam is generally the most useful move in the last slot to hit dDragons, but should only be used in very specific situations. If your team struggles with Gastrodon or Darkrai, you can opt to use Hidden Power [Grass] or Sleep Talk, respectively, instead. A Timid nature is used to patch up the low sSpeed and allows you to tie or outspeed some versions of Dialga, Groudon, Ho-oh, Xerneas, and Zekrom. A Modest nature can be used instead and givesfor even more power, netting you the 2HKO on Chansey and Giratina in some situations, as well as the OHKO on some offensive dDragons. Specs Kyogre is a wallbreaker, so you should try to bring it in as early and often as you canpossible, as it's slow but always hits something hard. Do tTry to keep Kyogre's healthHP up for a powerful Water Spout. Getting Kyogre in with a double switche or Volt Switch/U-turn works very well in this regard. Choice Specs Kyogre is rather slow, which makes it not so good late game, so try to use it as often as you can early on. Specially Defensive Kyogre @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Scald - Roar With this set, Kyogre becomes a great special wall and easily deals with all theny status being thrown around. Scald is the best option for the attacking move, as it makes physical attackers think twice before switching in and can burn some walls too. Roar deals with anything trying to set up, and makes Kyogre a great counter to non-Electric Calm Mind Arceus. With its great Special Defense, Kyogre can easily take wWater moves from opposing Palkia and Kyogre, as well as counter most special dDragons. Kyogre is also a good counter to more bulkyier Pokeémon, like support Arceus formes, Lugia and most bulky Steel -types. It should be noted that a healthy Kyogre can take even a +2 Thunder from Xerneas and phaze it, although obviously this should not be your only Xerneas check. Note also that this Kyogre is purely a special wall, and despite the HP investment, it still has trouble taking on strong physical attackers. Good Partners The good partners for Kyogre can be divided up into several categories. Firstly, the trappers Gengar and Gothitelle can remove checks and counters to Kyogre like Chansey and Arceus-Water/Grass. It is also very important to have good defensive synergy with Kyogre. Palkia checks like Ferrothorn and Arceus-Grass are especially welcome, as Kyogre powers up the Water moves of opposing Palkia. Ground -types like Landorus-T and Gliscor also provide good defensive synergy, taking on opposing Zekrom easily andwhile also being able to switch into opposing Kyogre using Thunder. Next, hazard control is very good when using Kyogre. Removing hazards on your side lets you keep Water Spout at full power, and putting hazards on the opponent's side helps with the many switches Kyogre causes. Kyogre also works well on Sticky Web teams, as it gives Specs Kyogre the sSpeed necessary to sweep. Users of Volt Switch or U-turn also pair up well with Kyogre, letting it come in without taking any damage, which is great especially great for Specs Kyogre. Finally, anything that enjoys playing in rain can team up well with Kyogre, t. This ranges from boosting Palkia's Water moves to removing the fFire weakness of defensive Steel -types. Note though that rain is not permanent anymore, which especially hurts the Swift Swim users that were rather common last generation but don't work well anymore. Other Options For the choice sets there are no real other options, so here we are considering differmanent sets. Kyogre learns Calm Mind, which could be used on a variety of sets. Using it alongside three attacks can threating certain teams, but is generally outclassed by Choice Specs as a wallbreaker. Calm Mind can also be used on a physically defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk, but this set doesn't work so well anymore after the Drizzle nerf and is rather easily phazed. A physically defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could also be used with Roar, if your team needs a status absorber that deals t Swith Extremekiller, Groudon and some Ho-oh. Kyogre can also spread status like Thunder Wave or Toxic on a set with either Leftovers or Rest + Chesto Berry to surprise some counters like Palkia. Finally, Kyogre could hold a Damp Rock to keep up raimmon for longer to support teammates like Swift Swimmers. Note by the way that you can get some surprise kills on Landorus-T or Gliscor if you manage to bluff a choice item with either of these setsgeneration. Checks and Counters Palkia is the most important Kyogre counter, as it resists Water 4x and even uses Kyogre's rain to boost its own Water attacks. Gastrodon completely walls any version of Kyogre unless it runs the rare Hidden Power [Grass]. Grass -types like Arceus-Grass and Ferrothorn resist wWater and are good counters, though Ferrothorn cannot switch into Specs Kyogre though. Defensive Water -types like Arceus-Water and Specially Defensive Kyogre also work well, but they do not like Thunder or Choice Specs w-boosted Water moves. Note that an important difference between Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Water is that Arceus-Water cannot do much back to Kyogre. Chansey and Blissey can counter Scarf Kyogre and stall Specs Kyogre of out of rain turns, but they cannot switch into Specs Kyogre. The uncommon Assault Vest Amoonguss can take all moves pretty well and threatens Kyogre with a powerful Grass Knot. Specially Ddefensive dDragons like Giratina and Dialga can deal with Kyogre most of the time, though Dialga has to watch out for Specs Kyogre though. Zekrom threatens to KO Kyogre with Bolt Strike and can come in on a predicted Thunder. Scarfed Genesect can scome in on a revenge kill to use U-turn safely to, threatening Kyogre andwhile keeping momentum. Priority moves from Yveltal, ExtremekKiller Arceus and Kangaskhan can finish off Kyogre pretty well. If Kyogre lacks a Choice Scarf, powerful attackers like Mewtwo can check it well. In general, keeping up hazards against Kyogre is very useful, because Kyogre switches often and the power of Water Spout is lowered. Options There are no real other options for the Choice sets, but other sets are viable. Kyogre learns Calm Mind, which could be used on a variety of sets. Using it alongside three attacks can threaten certain teams but is generally outclassed by Choice Specs as a wallbreaker. Calm Mind can also be used on a physically defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk, but this set doesn't work as well due to the Drizzle nerf and is easily phazed. A physically defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set could also be used with Roar, if your team needs a status absorber that deals with Extremekiller, Groudon and some Ho-oh. Kyogre can also spread status like Thunder Wave or Toxic on a set with either Leftovers or Rest + Chesto Berry to surprise some counters like Palkia. Finally, Kyogre could hold a Damp Rock to keep rain up longer to support teammates like Swift Swimmers. Note that you can get some surprise KOs on Landorus-T or Gliscor if you manage to bluff a Choice item with either of these sets.
Uploaded what was in the Wiki spoiler. It seemed like it had the grammar changes implemented. This probably could use an update for ORAS considering that Primal Kyogre is a thing now. Not as dominating as Primal Groudon though, so I'm still uploading. Let me know if there are any issues.