Overview Inspired by the biblical monstrosity known as the Behemoth, the creator of the land returns to the XY Ubers metagame to create more landslides. With a titanic 150 base Attack and 140 base Defense, Groudon is no slouch both offensively and defensively. Base 100 hp is average by Ubers standards, but it's enough to get most of its jobs done alongside its Defense. Holding a variety of support moves such as Thunder Wave, Toxic, Roar, and Stealth Rocks, Groudon makes an excellent physical tank. Drought can be used to negate its Water weakness, and can scare out Kyogres as a check as well as fuel fire moves from Pokemon such as Ho-oh to a devastating effect. On the offensive side, the coveted EdgeQuake combo is available, as well as Fire Punch and Dragon claw, which are used to hit potential counters such as Giratina-Origin or Skarmory. With both Swords Dance and Rock Polish, many late games can be cleaned up by Groudon. Pure ground typing is a blessing as well, as it is immune to Thunder Wave, and only takes 1/16 of its total HP from the common Stealth Rocks. Yet, the solar behemoth is not without weaknesses. Base 90 speed is rather slow for the metagame, with many threats sitting at 95-100 speed. It can no longer keep Stealth Rocks constantly up, as the new Defog Support Arceus can burn it to render it useless while keeping hazards off the field. It's lack of recovery outside of the unreliable Rest does not help, as it can't abuse its excellent physical defense to its full extent. Physical Tank Groudon @ Leftovers Trait: Drought Nature: Impish EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def - Thunder Wave/Roar/Toxic - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock Sporting a huge base 100/140 physical defense, Groudon can act as a counter or check to a myriad of offensive threats in the tier, with notable monsters being Extreme Killer Arceus, opposing Offensive Groudon, Physical Rayquaza, Ho-oh, and Zekrom. Stealth Rocks are a necessity, as it is an excellent support move and Groudon is quite good at getting it up. Earthquake and Stone Edge provide great coverage and hits quite hard even with no investment thanks to Groudon's monstrous base attack. The final moveset is up to the team's needs, with Thunder Wave making most sweepers useless, Toxic taking down non-refresh Support Arceus formes as well as Lugia, and Roar for phazing. Lava Plume is worth a mention, as it can nail Forretress/Skarmory switch-ins as well as having a nice chance to burn. Offensive Stealth Rocks Groudon @ Life Orb OR Earth Plate Trait: Drought Nature: Adamant/Jolly EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd - Fire Punch - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock A great lure with a nice surprise effect, Offensive Groudon can be a menace to face with a massive 150 base Attack stat. EdgeQuake is mandatory, as it gives Groudon almost perfect neutral coverage. Fire Punch will nail opposing Forretress and Skarmory as well as Ferrothorn. It should be noted that Earthquake will 2hko even the most physically defensive Kyogre, which is yet another plus. Stealth Rocks are there as its main purpose, as many Defog users cannot switch into a Life Orb boosted attack from Groudon. This set works best on Offensive teams, which require a Stealth Rock user that can maintain momentum. Sweeper Groudon @ Life Orb OR Lum Berry Trait: Drought Nature: Adamant EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk /176 Spd - Fire Punch/Swords Dance - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Rock Polish Thanks to a rather low base 90 speed, Groudon is rarely expected to be a sweeper. However, with the help of Rock Polish, Groudon can become a massive threat that will devastate weakened teams. Life Orb is the preferred item, as it powers up Groudon's moves. However, Lum Berry and Swords Dance can be used together in conjunction to double as a Wallbreaker, as many stall teams will not enjoy a +2 Groudon that can absorb status once. Again, EdgeQuake is a necessity as it gives a nice neutral coverage. Fire Punch, as stated before, can beat steel types that are neutral or immune to Earthquake. Good partners in crime Groudon, Ho-oh, and Palkia has always been best buddies - Groudon can tank Rock or Electric attacks aimed at Ho-oh while tanking physical dragon moves aimed at Palkia, Palkia can take Water attacks aimed at the other two, and Ho-oh can tank Special Dragon moves aimed at Palkia, while soaking up Grass or Ice moves for Groudon. Specially Defensive Aegislash or Giratina formes as well as Arceus-Ghost are good comrades to block opposing Rapid Spin as it renders Groudon's Stealth Rocks useless. And despite having a bad relationship canon-wise, the leviathan Kyogre is a good partner for it as well, as it allows you to have a great physical/special core. Arceus-Grass or Arceus-Water can help out by making opposing Kyogre useless. Reshiram and Blaziken's attacks become immensely strong under the Sun Groudon brings, so they are up for consideration as well. Other Options Dragon Claw, Rock Slide, ChestoRest, Iron Tail, Bulk Up, Substitute. Choice Band or Choice Scarf deserves a mention as well, but with many of Groudon's moves are not moves it likes to be locked into. Also, it should be noted that many of its normal counters including its largest ones - Lando-T and Gliscor - still ignores Groudon even equipped with a Choice Band. Checks and Counters Physically bulky Landorus-T, and Gliscor do a VERY good job of making sure Groudon doesn't do anything for the match besides maybe getting Stealth Rocks up. Landorus-T needs to watch out for Toxic however. Kyogre forces a switch on most Groudons, bar Offensive Eplate if Specs was given away. Even then it's a gamble as they can speed tie. Physically Defensive Kyogre can wall up to Eplate Jolly Groudons max invested in attack. Mixed Wallbreaker Rayquaza can switch into a predicted Earthquake, then kill it with a Draco Meteor. Skarmory and Forretress can set up hazards all over it if it lacks a Fire move. Forretress can Rapid Spin to take away the Stealth Rocks it sets up as well. Giratina Another form is one of the best counters to Groudon, and can beat just about any set bar the Lum Swords Dance. Giratina Origin form does not like to tank Dragon Claw/Dragon Tail, but otherwise a safe counter and can burn it as well. Finally, Support Arceus that is not weak to Ground can burn it to render it useless.
Looks good Add gliscor and lando t as checks Ferro isn't a check even without a fire move so remove it Lava plume deserves a mention either in oo or a slash over stone edge on the tank set
Umm you missed out on the standard CB Groudon set. Idk if its because everyone knows it or because you forgot, but here : Groudon @ Choice Band Trait: Drought Nature: Impish EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def - Fire Punch - Earthquake - Stone Edge - Dragon Claw Like I said, just standard CB Groudon. Smashes through pokemon with its amazing 657 attack, backed with decent coverage. Earth Quake OHKOS offensive Kyogre if anyone is daft enough to switch in, Dragon Claw nails Giratina switch ins pretty hard, Fire Punch hits pokemon like Ferrothorn, Mega Scizor etc very hard, Stone edge is for pokemon like Ho-Oh. Hammer Arm can be used over Dragon Claw or Stone edge if you're particularly worried about hitting something like Arceus normal, although Earth Quake is good enough. Offtopic: You've done analysis for Groudon and Rayquaza, why not do Kyogre too?
@Whatzin I kinda put off Banded Groudon since many of its moves are ones it wouldn't really like to be locked into - Especially EarthQuake and Dragon Claw - requiring really heavy predictions. LO Adamant Groudon can still kinda oneshot Kyogre after Stealth Rocks as well. I could add it in the Other Options I guess. ty for your suggestion! Offtopic: Because I really think Kyogre looks dumb compared to Ray and Grou. I know it's probably the best out of the three... but still. @pg Added Lava Plume Physically Defensive Ferrothorn...! Who am I kidding smh yeah my mistake. I got rid of it on the CC. Lando/Glis also added ty for the suggestion!
Gliscor can't use Defog with Poison Heal (and is useless otherwise), so get rid of that. Still a great counter of course.
Optional, but for the Choice Band set you could add Hammer Arm OHKOs 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus after Rocks Spoiler You were probably expecting the calc here. Nope Spoiler 252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 340-402 (89 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock[/HIDE][/HIDE] If you're wondering what to replace for Hammer Arm, Dragon Claw would be your best choice as Giratina-O isn't too common this gen, and anyways Earthquake only hits about 4% weaker than super-effective Dragon Claw EDIT: Just realized you don't have a CB set, must of misread the offensive one my bad Otherwise /Approve/
That first set has an awful case of slashitis. I'd just leave Thunder Wave and Roar, and mention the other ones in the set because it looks really messy like this. If you do that, you get my Spoiler God I love being able to do this again[/HIDE]
4/3 QC approval strong analysis @Zoro That seel looks fat as you are jk jk Done editing. LGI WRITE-UP!
This really needs to be updated. Please do so in the next week or someone else can start taking this and doing it!
With the addition of the Primal Groudon, this analysis definitely needs some touching up before being put on-Wiki (if anyone wants to take it over).
Hi I'm not actually a part of Grammar Patrol but I'm gonna help to fix this up a bit. Overview -Base 100 HP is average by Ubers standards -Drought can be used to negate its Water weakness, and can scare out Kyogre as a check, as well as and fuel fire moves from Pokemon such as Ho-oh to a devastating effect -as well as Fire Punch and Dragon Claw -Pure ground typing is a blessing as well, as it is immune to Thunder Wave, [no comma] and only takes 1/16 of its total HP from the common Stealth Rock. -It can no longer keep Stealth Rock -Its lack of recovery outside of the unreliable Rest does not help. as it can't abuse its excellent physical defense to its full extent.As a result, it cannot abuse its excellent physical defense fully. Physical Tank -Sporting a huge base 100 HP/and 140 base physical defense, Offensive Stealth Rock -As a great lure with a nice surprising effect, Offensive Groudon can be a menace to face with a massive 150 base Attack stat. -It should be noted that Earthquake will 2HKO even the most physically defensive Kyogre, which is yet another plus. -Stealth Rock are there as its main purpose, as many Defog users cannot switch into a Life Orb boosted attack from Groudon. Sweeper -ThanksDue [Due probably works better here as "thanks" implies that its a positive thing] to a rather low base 90 speed, Groudon is rarely expected to be a sweeper. Good Partners -Groudon, Ho-oh, and Palkia has always been best buddies... --> The core of Groudon, Ho-oh, and Palkia has always been effective in the Ubers metagame. Groudon can tank Rock or Electric attacks aimed at Ho-oh and physical dragon moves aimed at Palkia. Palkia can easily take water attacks aimed at both Groudon and Ho-oh while Ho-oh can tank special dragon moves aimed at Palkia and Grass or Ice moves aimed at Groudon. [Kinda gets confusing when you include everything into one sentence] -to block opposing Rapid Spin as it can removerenders Groudon's Stealth Rock. useless [Saying they're rendered useless is probably not the best way to describe it] -Arceus-Grass or Arceus-Water can help out by checkingmaking opposing Kyogre useless. -Reshiram and Blaziken's attacks become immensely strong under the Sun Groudon bringsDrought, so they are up for considerationnotable options as well. Other Options -Maybe add descriptions to the list of moves/sets? -Choice Band orand Choice Scarf deserve a mentions as well. but with many of Groudon's moves are not moves it likes to be locked into.However, most of Groudon's moves are not ones that it likes to be locked into. -its largest ones-Lando-T and Gliscor-still ignore Groudon even equipped with a Choice Band. Checks and Counters -Physically bulky Landorus-T, and Gliscor do a very good job of making sure Groudon doesn't do anything for the match besides maybe getting Stealth Rock up. -Kyogre forces a switch on most Groudon, bar the Offensive Earth Plate set if Kyogre was running Choice Specs was given away; even then it's a gamble as they can speed tie. -Physically Defensive Kyogre can wall up to Earth Plate Jolly Groudon max invested in attack. -Forretress can Rapid Spin to take away the Stealth Rock it sets up as well. -Giratina-A is one of the best counters to Groudon, andas it can beat just about any set bar the Lum Berry Swords Dance set. -Giratina-O does not like to tank Dragon Claw/Dragon Tail, but otherwise, it's a safe counter to Groudon and can burn it as well. Hopefully I didn't change anything that altered any of the content in this analysis. Also, I know that I'm not the best at grammar but helping doesn't hurt. n_n
Can I just stick Red Orb and Precipice Blades on some of these sets and say it's ORAS ready, or is it more detailed than that?
I dunno if that'll suit, tbh. IIRC, Primal Groudon is quite different to the standard, mostly because it has its whole one mon army approach with Desolate Land, whilst normal Groudon is able to support with sun. I'm not really much of an Ubers player though, so I could be completely wrong. :D
I think that would work with the listed sets if you slash Precipice Blades with EQ because it's basically a few 2hkos/ohkos vs accuracy. However, I think there are more things that should be noted pertaining to Primal Groudon. Arceus-Ground should definitely be added to the checks and counters list for Primal Groudon. Judgement OHKOs or 2HKOs Primal Groudon, depending on the Arceus set and the Primal Groudon set. The SD Arceus Ground checks Primal Groudon, but it can't OHKO without a boost. Kyogre should be replaced by Primal Kyogre since Desolate Land makes Primal Groudon immune to water, and the fire typing makes it neutral to Ice attacks. However, Primal Kyogre needs to be able to change the weather before it is a significant threat because it is heavily damaged by PB and doesn't do too much with Ice Beam. I'm not sure that I would list Forretress because most Primal Groudon have a fire move of some sort (this goes for Skarmory too), and even if they don't, PB does massive damage unless Forretress has max defense. Also, in OO, Lava Plume/Overheat should probably be mentioned somewhere for Primal Groudon as they still can do good damage with the sun boost and STAB, and they can also nuke things like Lando-T and Gliscor on the switch. Groudon is able to provide sun support, and is usually a better physical wall for things like E-Killer since it isn't weak to EQ, but other than that, there isn't much reason to use Groudon over Primal Groudon that I can see.
There's also a "popular" spdef pdon set that is basically full hp/spdef +spdef that is used to beat xerneas and other spatkers. precipice/eq, lava plume/stone edge/rockslide, rocks and dtail/twave/roar.
It's been a while since I played Ubers, but I was always under the impression that the majority of PDon should be EV'd to live +2 Xern Focus Blast. Can't remember the optimum spreads tho, and I've never been good with EV spreads anyway. So I wouldn't just make do with a tweaked version of this. But like I said, I don't play the tier anymore, so don't take my word for it
128 HP EVs are the bare minimum it takes to avoid the OHKO from +2 Xerneas Focus Blast/HP Ground: +2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 316-372 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Personally, I run more bulk than that regardless of the set so that it can more easily live to attack/phase Xerneas in sticky situations.