Wheel of Time Theme

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by Redsnake, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. Redsnake

    Redsnake Paradox Whale

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    Hi all,

    The Wheel of Time series is my favorite set of books ever, so I decided to make a theme for it.

    Raw code here: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Xt4wwsDJ

    Summary:

    Sides: Forces of Light (Dragon Reborn), Forces of Dark (The Dark One), White Tower (Amyrlin Seat)

    Unique command - Channel: Many units in the theme have the ability to Channel. Channel is a self-only ability that can be used at night, once per game, to protect and safeguard the user.

    Unique feature - Truce: After a certain amount of rounds, both the Dragon Reborn (or False Dragon) and the Amyrlin Seat gain the Truce ability. If both units use this ability, the Light team will merge with the White Tower, allowing them to win together.

    ~Light:

    Summary: Dragon Reborn is the headpiece; he gets very strong with each night that he survives. If he dies, a villager might be promoted to become a False Dragon. The False Dragon is identical to the Dragon Reborn, except many of his effects are reduced in strength.

    The Dragon Reborn:
    *Starts the game knowing Mat and Perrin
    *After n1 he gains +10 votes
    *After n2 he gains a revealing daykill, and can Channel
    *After n3 he revenges both day and night kills, and can call for a Truce

    False Dragon:
    *After n1, gains +5 votes
    *After n2, gains a revealing daykill every other day, and can Channel.
    *After n3, he revenges both night and day kills
    *Low chance that another False Dragon will come about if this one dies

    Peasant:
    *Villager, can become a False Dragon if The Dragon Reborn dies

    Perrin:
    *Starts the game knowing The Dragon Reborn and Mat
    *Bodyguard who can protect two people (including himself)

    Mat:
    *Starts the game knowing The Dragon Reborn and Perrin
    *Vigilante
    *2 votes

    Moiraine:
    *Distractor
    *Can Channel

    Egwene:
    *Inspector

    Nynaeve:
    *Exposer, reveals herself too
    *Revenges daykills

    ~Dark:

    Summary: The Dark One and the Black Ajah will gradually convert more and more people to their side. Trolloc and Myrddraal bring standard kill functionality, Gray Man gives a daykill (was supposed to have a neat feature where the killer of the Gray Man gains the daykill ability, but I don't think it's functionally possible). Draghkar and Gholam bring unique abilities.

    The Dark One:
    *Once per night, can convert a unit to a random Shadowspawn (Trolloc, Myrddraal, Gray Man, Draghkar, Gholam)
    *Has a -10 vote shield

    Trolloc:
    *Basic /kill unit, shared with Myrddraal

    Myrddraal:
    */kill shared with Trolloc
    *Distractor

    Gray Man:
    *Nonrevealing daykill

    Draghkar:
    *1 turn delay poison
    *If the Draghkar is killed, the poisoned target is detoxed.

    Gholam:
    *Can stalk someone once every other night
    *High (67%) hax on the Channel command
    *If stalk hits a Channeler (except The Dragon Reborn), they die
    **To work with the above, stalk is restricted (can't change target after selecting)

    Black Ajah:
    *Starts the game knowing all of the Accepted
    *Appears on the list as an Aes Sedai
    *Can Channel
    *Can Convert members of the White Tower to Black Ajah (50% effectiveness) (Doesn't affect Amyrlin)

    ~The White Tower

    Summary: All start as Accepted with no abilities except Team Talk. During night one, they can all choose an Ajah, with each one having a different ability. The Amyrlin Seat is the leader, and needs to stay alive in order to forge a truce with The Dragon Reborn. ALL members of this group show up as "Aes Sedai" in the list of roles.

    --All below have Team Talk--

    Accepted:
    *Chooses one of the Ajahs (not Black) night one

    Green Ajah:
    *Bodyguard
    *Can Channel

    Blue Ajah:
    *Spy (20%, 10% chance on every command)
    *Can Channel

    Brown Ajah:
    *Inspector
    *Can Channel

    Red Ajah:
    *Can kill
    *Can Channel

    Gray Ajah:
    *Vote of 3
    *Can Channel

    Amyrlin Seat:
    *Vote of 5
    *Can Channel
    *Can Truce on night 3
    [/HIDE]

    Reasons this isn't ready for Review, and thus things I'd like input on:

    • Thematic Elements (if you are familiar with the books)
    • Thoughts on team balance
    • Thoughts on mechanics
    • Thoughts on how to makes the Roles lists better for different sized games
    • And most importantly I'd be immensely appreciative of anyone who can spare some time to look through the code and look for discrepancies between what the summary says/what the info says/what the help says and what the code actually allows. I'm sure there are a bunch of things I've forgotten to include/change throughout the iterations.

    In terms of code, I've run it through jsonlint and through icekirby's theme checker and only come up with one minor error:

    Minor errors found in your script:
    Role draghkar.actions.onDeath has an extra attribute "detoxRoles".

    Now, I think it would be neat (and thematically appropriate) for the draghkar poison effect to be cleansed if the draghkar dies before the target does, so I tried to make its onDeath effect be to detox every role in the game (since it is the only poisoning role). However, the ability to detoxRoles wasn't specifically listed in the How To guide, but rather just extrapolated from similar commands like convertRoles.

    I'm assuming this error message means my detox idea won't work, so if anyone has another idea I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll just get rid of this function.
     
  2. Solace

    Solace Member

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    You, good sir, need to read my signature and location. :D
    Anywho, the biggest issue I see right now is the fact that so many roles have a self-BG. The Shadow will have an extremely difficult time winning that way.
     
  3. Redsnake

    Redsnake Paradox Whale

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    YES<3

    Anyway, it can only be used once per game. I don't think that's that overwhelming? Don't forget about the Gholam who ignores the protection when he goes to kill one.

    Edit: Not sure I included that tidbit about the Gholam in the description...or the code. Gonna update that now.
     
  4. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    What worries me is that, although it's really the theme of the books, Rand's practically invincible unless he's hit n1 or even n2. In large games, this will be incredibly unfair.
     
  5. Redsnake

    Redsnake Paradox Whale

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    Starting by knowing the BG and Vigi might be too strong, I just thought it would be lame if he died the first night. Also thematic accuracy. Could get rid of it though.
     
  6. Marina

    Marina The Marshtomp has seen it all before.

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    What, did they get severed? Poor Egwene :(
    Also, I'm still sad that nothing I recommended was added in (flavourwise at least) ;-;
    By the way, speaking of severing, you should have a role that can do that.
     
  7. Redsnake

    Redsnake Paradox Whale

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    I changed Rand's name :(
    I dunno I thought village was too strong so I stuck them with their pre-Channeling selves.
    Severing would be easy enough haha it might make everyone just protect themselves night one though instead of risking to save it for a better time. Then again everyone will probably n1 channel anyway.
     
  8. Marina

    Marina The Marshtomp has seen it all before.

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    Then... I suppose Nynaeve can just call the entire village to expose them, I guess, being the Wisdom... but what is Egwene doing inspecting things?
    Um, flavour wise you could give the gholam kill/poison immunity except for Mat's kill, cause y'know... It's never been hurt except for by the medallion? And Mat ended up killing it, I still don't remember that.
    There must be holes in my memory.
    Anyway, getting back on topic, you'd have to make the Dark One either not be able to convert to Gholam, or have a really low chance of it, cause otherwise it'd be totally overpowered.
    Why aren't there any Forsaken? They could spice up big games, or... I dunno, small games could feature Mat and be MAT VS DEMANDRED or something. You can't not like the pre-Breaking guys. :<
     
  9. two sides of one coin

    two sides of one coin sick of all her shit

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    And NYNAEVE-MOGHEDIEN, obviously.
     
  10. Marina

    Marina The Marshtomp has seen it all before.

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    Moghedien sucks though. Cowardly, stupid, etc. I mean, Nynaeve beat her when she was still a silly novice. What kind of Forsaken is that?
    CADSUANE-SEMIA-whatever works tho. :D

    (Let's just stick with Mat-Demandred.)
     
  11. Marina

    Marina The Marshtomp has seen it all before.

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    Y'know, considering my last post in this thread was a month and a half ago, I'm going to double post, since I want this post to be seen by people who could potentially help. All for you, Redsnake. :3

    Now, my first big issue with this theme is definitely the channel command. I mean, channeling is such a big thing in the series that it seems a shame to make it such a boring command. Plus, we see channeling used for mass destruction a lot more than defense in the series, so why would it be a perfect self protect? For generics that have the channel command, I think it should be a random command, with a x percent chance to do this, or this, or this, or this, and it could also be randomly decided at the beginning which channel does what. Not sure if this is possible, but yea. The main character's channel (mainly Rand) could be something a bit more fun, dunno what you could do, however. Channel could have a 100% success rate on any non-channelers, since they can't detect it, but since people who do channel can detect weaves, the channel command could potentially fail against those. And of course, Gholams and Mat should evade all channel, because they're awesome. Also, to balance out the channelers, make it maybe once every two nights.

    Rand "powering up" every night makes sense, but I honestly don't see how your progression works, since the +10 vote coming first makes it feel like he instantly became recognised by everyone everywhere, which obviously didn't happen. Rather, everyone started plotting. Instead, it could look something like this:

    Game Start: Nothing, knows Mat and Perrin
    After N1: Can channel, high fail chance.
    After N2: A lot better channeling, still has fail chance
    After N3: Channeling becomes quite reliable, however add a chance to convert him into a thing where Lews Therin takes over, forcing him to kill people, perhaps. I'm not sure if this is possible, and it can revert after a night.
    After N4: Channeling becomes perfect, still has the chance of Lews Therin, however add another thing where he gets saidin-sickness, maybe, rendering him incapable of doing stuff well.
    After N5: All of the above, hax on Mat and Perrin (the "swirl of colours")
    After N6: Loses saidin-sickness, gets a /channel buff, loses Lews Therin thing.

    I suppose you could space those out a bit, but it would make a lot more sense flavour wise if you did something like that. The big fail chances early on make it quite a gamble to be useful, as well, which might balance it a bit.
    Speaking of main characters, we can't forget Mat! Mat's progression could look a bit like this:

    Game Start: Does nothing, knows Rand and Perrin
    After N1: Gains a nightly /kill, gains the cursed dagger, which should make him... mistrustful, which could result in all beneficial commands failing to work on him, and lowering chances of kill and poison working.
    After N2: I guess no big changes, more mistrust perhaps.
    After N3: Loses mistrust, but gains his luck, which raises chances of kill and poison evading.
    After N4: Gains the medallion, channeling-immune, gains his memories, which could give him a extra command like recruit into the Band or something, which could give a not-too-reliable-kill.
    After N5: Gains hax on Rand and Perrin.
    After N6: Band all converts into guaranteed killers, because dragons.

    Again, spacing it out might make more sense, but Mat just feels super overpowered. Which is okay. Because he's Mat. Perrin, however...

    Game Start: Knows Rand and Mat, has one BG or something.
    After N1: Gains "wolf senses", which raises his evade chance, maybe increase to two BGs, however loses his vote because no one likes his eyes.
    After N2: Wolf gets stronger, can't really remember if he gets anything else.
    After N3: I suppose he gets his vote back and an extra to boot, since he becomes the Two Rivers guy, right?
    After N4: Gains "wolf dream" command, which is a perfect self-BG with a high chance of converting Perrin into a useless role cos he sucks. (The dream should also convert him into a useless but completely invincible role on success for one night. Tired, yet in the dream where he is the best.)
    After N5: Hax on Rand and Mat, gets better with dream.
    After N6: Dream becomes perfect success rate.

    Yea yea, spread it out.

    Now, giving the village all this might be a little overpowered. So, I think it you could safely give the Dark things a little buff.

    Trollocs: Kill, has a chance of not dying when targetted with a regular old /kill. After all, Trollocs are durable little things.
    Fades: Because I can't spell My-whatever without scrolling up. Give 'em a shared kill with Trollocs and all other things, but if he chooses a target Trollocs can't overturn it, kinda like the soldier and general in that theme, and an extra kill that has a high chance of failure and poisoning instead. Y'know, Fade swords. Distraction because fear.
    Grey Man: Totally forgot about these guys. I guess give them a shared kill that can't be haxed, and a nonrevealing daykill or something?
    Drakgar: Add the shared kill to them, and the poison thing sounds about right. Stalking privileges should go to this fellow, since he flies.
    Min: No, she's not a Shadowspawn. Yes, she is the spy with a high chance of seeing anything.
    Gholam: Ohoho, my favourite Shadowspawn. Immunity to most kills should be a huge advantage for this side, and channel immunity is also a boon since half the world can channel. The hax on channeling is nice, but I think if someone uses a channel on them, instantly hax it. (Of course, this only applies if you change the command.) Give it an extra kill, and we're cool. Only Mat is allowed to kill him, I guess, but find some loophole so it isn't too overpowered?
    The Dark One: Now, I think to prevent the late game from being too skewed in the villages favour, the late game should be when this guy really comes in. In games he is in, he should start out completely invincible, but also useless. Maybe 1 vote so people don't try silly things where they say "you two vote" and then kill the Dark One the moment he becomes not so invincible. Near the end, he should be able to mass convert non-power roles (and some power roles) to any shadowspawn he wants, except the Gholam. That would be not good. Give him a kill, and perhaps immunity to normal means of killing. Perrin and Rand and Mat could perhaps be the only ones. Hell, scratch the other two, make it Rand only. The "immobile" period should be more than enough time to scout out the Dark One, and he could keep up an immunity to all ways of removal until near the very end, which is when Rand can pile on, and if Rand doesn't know that's good game. Also, if the game drags on too long, just make the Shadow win after a certain turn, 7-13 seems reasonable.
    The Blight: While it isn't a role, you could certainly incorporate it in. For example, instead of kills actually killing, the people who would have been removed from the game could become either Trolloc or Fade. Of course, you can't do this with Trollocs or Fades. As the game progresses, the Shadow could get tiny buffs, for example Trollocs get harder to kill, Fades separate kill gets more likely to succeed, etc. Additionally, the "dead people transform" idea could also become more likely to succeed. And some time late in the game, just find a way to drop the Dark One in if Rand is in. Some Trolloc can morph, maybe, or a dead guy turns Dark One instead of Trolloc. Make him not immobile, but starts at the "I can do stuff stage". Then it makes sense that the game ends on the given turn no matter what.

    It wouldn't be too far-fetched to add a Forsaken side for larger games, but hey, I've given enough of my input for one day. Dunno if any of this is actually useful or balancing in any way, but it at least keeps with the flavour, right? Hopefully this post will at least get some discussion going or something.