Rock-Paper-Scissors

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by Joeypals!!, Feb 2, 2014.

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  1. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    If you recall, Stocke put this theme in Review a while back with the idea of it being a 2 player game. With that being out of the possibilities, I decided to try to bring it back as an actual non-peak. Only issue is that I don't really know what to do, I want you guys to help. I've thought up two possibilities.

    Possibility A
    • Game starts with up to 12 single-sided Players with a silentPoison with a count of 1, similar to Rotom.
    • n1, they must choose /rock, /paper, or /scissors. They will convert to said role.
    • There is no vote phase.
    • During the night, they can type /fight on whoever they want. If it's a bad match-up, like Scissors attacking Rock, the user loses 1HP. If it's a good match-up, like Scissors on Paper, the target loses 2HP. Everyone starts with 5HP.
    • If you attack someone of the same type, you both lose 1HP.
    • Last one alive wins!

    Possibility B

    Same HP and stuff, except everyone starts as a random role instead of choosing.



    Help would be appreciated!
     
  2. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Maybe not losing HP when you fight someone of same type be better?
     
  3. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I thought about that Mike but the games might lose a little slower then, so I'm unsure. I'll wait for other opinions on that, but thanks.
     
  4. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    It completely lacks any strategic factor. It's quite likely some players will be completely unable to win at some early point due to a blind choice made N1, especially due to the lack of a voting phase.
    This could be easily corrected if you added the possibility of players being able to not /fight for a night to use /rock, /paper or /scissors again and change their forms.
     
  5. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    If I'm understanding right, you're suggesting I give people the chance to reconvert correct?
     
  6. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Arid, how would that be possible? You can't claim your role since no BGs and that would make you die fast. Also, you dont need to say you lost x HP for others to find out your role. Also, if someone claims, its still easy to fake it like all other games. Im not sure if I am missing something...

    EDIT: Tbh, I feel like its a mini version of animals with rotom mixed to it.
     
  7. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    What if you had gun which killed rock, paper, and scissors?
    And killed that other opponent instantly?
     
  8. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Evil: Gun will win obv
    In that case, it will have to take 2 damage from all rock scissor and paper or something
     
  9. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Yes, that's what I meant.

    Also, another suggestion is to think about making this theme a free-for-all instead of siding players by form. This would be useful to avoid the "Let's everyone convert to the same side" thing that often happens to Rotom and Trainers.
    Or you could still make it team-based, but not grouping by form (e.g.: up to 3 teams with 4 players each that could freely choose their forms without changing sides).
     
  10. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I'm not including a Gun, that's out of the question.

    And to answer your statement on this being Animals mixed with Room Mike, it pretty much is right now. That's partially why I put it here though, so I can figure out how to make it different.

    EDIT: That actually sounds cool Ice, the convert-but-still-different-side thing. I think I'll use that, thanks!
     
  11. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Continuing on what RiceKirby said, Rotom is so easy to connect must change to n1...and it's a killfest.
    I would go with Option A, and instead of making it 5 HP, you can make it 4 HP. (There's no need to drag a game).
     
  12. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    The only reason why I have it as 5HP is so everyone has a 3rd chance, plus it works with the 1HP loss thing so idk, I'll keep it in mind though.

    And EDR, really? A ''Joeypals''?
     
  13. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Everyone's already attacking each other with relatively low HP. What more do you need, honestly.
     
  14. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    And what will the priority be? All same?
     
  15. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Priority list, I think I'll just run that through a randomizer since all sides have an equal amount of advantages/disadvantages. Either that or I can base it on something random like longest it takes to float to the ground, in which case it'd be Paper, then Scissors, then Rock.
     
  16. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Or rather you change it like a week or so based on windata?
     
  17. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Priority should be equal....If the same type attacks each other, they each get 1. ect, ect
     
  18. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Priority is never equal. Even if you set the same number, the script has its ways to determine which one is actually faster.
     
  19. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    You know what I mean by that. As in it should be the same number, so it would be better balance rather than rock always dying first.
     
  20. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Unless there's a way to do a random priority, in which case I'd need to hide the priorities and put them in dummy roles, there's no true way for the priorities to be random. Like you know what I mean Ice, similar to random vote or convert for stuff like Egg in Dinos but within priority.
     
  21. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    There's no equal priority. One of them will ultimately be faster than the others. Using the same number will change nothing, as this is how the script works internally.

    EDIT:
    @Joey: There's no random priority, and that is one of the things that practically cannot be coded into the script. The best you can do is use Random Spawn to make a pseudo-random priority, or use Convert+Curse to have players only lose HP at the end of the turn.

    EDIT2:
    Just noticed this:
    Unless I forgot how to physics, Rock and Scissors should hit the ground at the same time :x
     
  22. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    The Rock/Scissors thing, I just went off of classroom stuff and a regular sized rock, if that makes any sense. I think I'll just go with a randomizer and randomize it that way, hopefully that's fine.

    Also, I just thought of this. Should I include time during the day for people to talk or no? There's no vote cycle, so just asking.
     
  23. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    No vote cycle? So everyone's vote is 0? Lame.
    There could be more abilities for each role.
    Rock : Protect
    Scissors: Kill
    Paper: Inspect
    And roles shouldn't know their partners.
     
  24. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    That is the worst possible idea that I could've thought of for this theme. Sorry, but no. Just... just no.
     
  25. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    Should I change the abilities?
    Rock : Extra life
    Scissors: Distract
    Paper : Poison
     
  26. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    The idea is that everyone kills each other with HP going into play with match-ups. There's no need for extra abilities.
     
  27. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Do you even need day time? I mean, there is no day actions and about the person you are attacking, HP lost etc, you can talk in night.
     
  28. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I'll probably cut that out and just make it stringed nights, thanks for mentioning that.
     
  29. EvilDingoRobot

    EvilDingoRobot HELLOOOOOOOO

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    Or you could have one of the scissors be a daykiller.
     
  30. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    While I could, there's no practical purpose for making just one scissor kind daykill.
     
  31. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    Mmmm the point about the rock-paper-scissor game is that every round a player can choose different attack, but as you describe it your idea, it seems that your version will loses such strategy.
    Here my idea.
    1) Every player starts as an hand role that is weak to both scissors, rock and paper role's poison attacks.
    2) Hand roles will have to choose between 3 possible copy actions during the night on their targets: /scissors, /paper, /rock. This commands will have priority 0 and will convert their users into the roles with the same names.
    3) The roles Scissors will have a /scissors command, paper will have a /paper command and rock a /rock one. All this commands are poisons with "count":0, . This commands will be evaded by the roles that are good against the role that the hand has decided like on the real Rock-paper-scissor game.
    4) The attacks of the Scissors, Rock and paper roles will be automatically used when the player converts in such roles because they will have priority: 1, making them act soon after that the player convert into them. It will work similar to that bug when Cecil on FF theme re-converted back themselves into dark the same night that they transformed into paladin because both of this 2 cecil versions had the same name for their change role command /change.
    5) Rock, Paper and scissors have a curse that transform them back into hands at the end of the same night that they become such roles. This way the next night they can repeat the process.
    6) On 6 or higher number of players game the players will begin to have teammates, so to make the vote phase viable (after all this game is still Mafia).
    7) Each partner doesn't know their teammates, but if they attack them, their teammates will be immune to them and the attacker will receive a dummy message which says that their target is sided with them.
    8) On game where it s impossible to have even teams, it will appear a fourth team with a role called evil hand, this role will have 2 copy abilities, /gun and /shield: the first will kill for sure their target but is vulnerable to all the attacks. The second instead will make the user immune to all the attacks and revenge kill who tried to attack him, as drawback when the player is a shield, he will have 0 as vote power.

    I know it s a long post but i think that it is a good idea.
    Here a shorter resume:
    Night phase: any hands choose a target with copy command /scissors /rock /paper -> hand become the choosen role and will poison his target that same night if the target is not his counter-role-> at the end of the night all the players return to be hands.

    Possible variants:
    1) If you still want an hp system you can use a convert command instead of a poison one.
    2) You could make that both the roles with the same name of the player's role and their counter role are immune to the player's attack, but when the player attacks their counter the player will be revenge killed.
    Weakness and resistance: If the player attacks a target weak to his role that target will be poisoned and dies at the end of the nights, if the target has the same role his target will survive. If a target strong against player role get attacked by them it will survive but if we use variant (1) the attacker will die or attacker will loses 1hp if you want to use an hp system. Gun will always kill his target but at the same time can be killed by anyone. Shield will resist any attack and revengekill whoever attack me, but will be defenseless during the night.

    LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS IDEAS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  32. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I actually thought about it earlier and that would be a good idea, having just Hands instead of pure converts. Makes it more life-like. The Gun thing can probably be 7 people and up. I don't like it personally, but at the same time the theme will drag without a role like that and I need to put the theme's needs over my desires, if that makes sense. I really like how you laid that out and I'm most likely going to implement a lot of that now because that's where my train of thought is at. Thank you very much!

    EDIT: By teammates, would you mean partner certain hands together and they can do whatever from there? I seriously wanna use the HP thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  33. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    The cheater/evil hand that transforms into shields and guns was an idea to balance the themes in case that you wanna have teams instead to have all the roles sided only with themselves, but you can use any other idea that you think can work to rebalamce the game.
    And about teams and partners: yeah i thought that if it is possible to have teams like some sort of red hands vs blue hands vs yellow hands vs cheater hands, you could still have a vote phase and so that when someone attacks their partners: instead to damage it they will discover that their target is sided with them, permitting so to have some connection and teamworks inside this theme; for exemple if 2 players discover to be partners and both of them want the same player damaged, one could decide to /scissor him and the other to rock him, so to have more chances to have succes in their collabotative attack.
    About the fact that you want to have an HP system, i think that can work even if you decide to use some of my ideas.
    Instead to poison attacks, you can have a convert that takes away 2 HP to your targets if they are weak against it and when that role reach 0 HP they will die of poison after that their attack takes place that same night, this way your theme will not suffet that priority problem that Fiery Espeon feared.
    Instead to die when a plyer attack shield or a role against which they are weak they could lose instead 2 or 1 HP thanks to a copy command inside their attacks, like it happens with porcupine on animals.
    And during the vote phase if you want it but you don t want them to directly die when lynched, you could give your roles a "lynch" command that will simply make them loses some HP depending on how much you want them to lose.
    P.S.
    If you want to use some of my ideas for your theme and you need an hand to apply them,i could help you, after all i have some experience with HP systems and multy conversions, thanks to my experience with animals and trust.
    P.S. number 2
    Be cautious with hp systems, they risk to make a game really long if used in yhe wrong way.
    I know for experience because animals too suffered such destiny before of the addition of Crocodile, Spider and Salamander as a mafia team that can directly kill instead to damage their targets and this is too is one of the motives why i suggested a cheater hand that can become a gun that kills directly their target.
    Sadly your theme to risk such fate because apart of the hp system, your theme will have the resistences of the typical rock paper scissors game. So use the damage distribution wisely.
     
  34. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    You'll probably have to walk me through the HP thing since I haven't used it yet, but I think I know what I want the theme to look like now. Thanks everyone!
     
  35. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    In this case here a giant suggestion:
    Remember! Variables are your best friends here, use them from the begin to the end of the theme, together with "help2" they will make your hp experience 10 time easier and modifications and fixes will take half of the time required.

    Edit-----------
    I know that is a little late, but i wanted to say something about priority.
    I know that equal priority doesn't exist but it's actually possible to simulate such thing for themes like this thanks to poison and letting the players able to use their action before to die.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  36. VirajVora

    VirajVora VirajVora...

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    It would be great if u kept a /random which will be either rock or paper or scissors...
    It will increase the excitement of people...
     
  37. Shazan

    Shazan Obey to Kyubey

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    I could do it, but I would prefer not because I would like that people think what they are doing and using /random to look less prevedible seems a pretty lazy strategy. So unless other people in addition to you wants it implemented I will not do it.
    P.S.
    You posted in the wrong thread, the thread of the accepted theme is this http://pokemon-online.eu/threads/nonpeak-rps-rock-paper-scissors.26937/
     
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