Here's the spread I made day 4 It was pretty much the reason I voted wae : S because I didn't want to be lynched after making it https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtNlNL8hAsG9dGhjVTR1S1lzVnhSMmdvYUpSTllQdmc&usp=sharing
You refused to listen to my logic that scum wouldn't sub out twice before me..... "Town between Laurel and Finch" then why did you keep saying I was obviously scum? I clearly wasn't and there was nothing to go off lol.
Final Votecount + Flip + Mafia Win post Dead QT Mafia QT I will probably be working on a postgame of my own, but in the meantime, co-host Duster (who did a solid job :] ) and POSTGAMEKINGWINDBLOWN can do postgames of their own if they want to. Here are some awards. Mafia MVP - Marquis Super Sub - Marquis Village MVP - FELIX NAVIDAD (I fence-sat on this one for a long time, but if you guys feel someone else deserves it, post in the thread!) Cutest Couple - Laurel x Finchinator Best Play: Marquis getting FELIX NAVIDAD lynched Day 4 Subbed In and Subbed Out - meepsvictory Most Misunderstood - dopog Most Hated: Laurel Most Improved Player - NotMafia If you guys want to add more awards or want to change / remove and award, post and I will probably do it if others agree!
Yay I won a thing. I agree with Felix for village mvp. Best play: d4 noms and Marquis getting Felix lynched maybe. I'll have to check who was on the wagon
I would argue that Rioku voting Laurel shouldn't have gotten "Worst Play". Laurel was antagonizing and playing directly to his scum meta. I don't blame Rioku for the town loss, and neither should town. With the level of quality and thought that was put into this game by the moderators and most of the players, I think "Worst Play" should really go to wherever people resorted to shit throwing rather than logically and respectfully playing with or against each other. It was incredibly distracting both for me and the town, and arguably was what led to Rioku's vote on Laurel in LYLO anyway. Of course, this all depends on your definition of the award, but regardless I feel like Rioku is taking more of the blame than he should have to here.
my main thoughts on this game was that the game showed how subs can really mess up a game, the village was pretty stacked and they still lost, and that it really showed that i haven't played in a while my gameplay was pretty mediocre. i messed up my nomination reads. d2 was really bad from all the village considering a notmafia lynch was really avoidable and that was what hurt us the most (which in hindsight my argument i think allowed people to dismiss an aj lynch). on nominations i think the mafia didn't really have a clear strategy (w/o marquis) on nominations. i think the "safe" strat was by far the aj lynch day 2 which is what i'm most disappointed about. the nominations then didn't really make sense considering how bad aj looked. i can't really say anything bad since the "i have nothing to say strategy" worked, but that was a really easy lynch to do that we messed up. matt subbing out completely changed the dynamic of the game - p. much everyone in the game (except wae i think) was like "lol k free pass cuz marquis is always village huhehuehue." props to marquis there obv but i think after we lynched notmafia we just ended up snowballing ourselves. honestly: we over-thought it, me included. i mean i guess i should stop being an easy lynch but that's probably going to be hard to change since i'm such a hipster mafia player :] finch played really well i thought, i think most of the pressure on him was more biases then actually reasoning but that's me honestly i think the big thing i take away from this is the danger of personal biases. i think it's really easy for people to go "i agree w/ this dude he's village" and "i disagree with this dude/he's attacking me must be mafia." playing objective is really difficult but i feel it is by far the best way to get reads on people and it's something i want to try and work on personally (see: me w/ finch, maybe even dopog a little, def. wae) gggggggggggggggggggggggggg
In regards to the 'worst' play, I don't really think there was one specific post or event that was too atrocious, for either side. There were a lot of things that could've went either way, based on the context of the game, and the Mafia ended up on the better end of them (you can arguably call it better play, but I don't think that AJ or myself played exceedingly well on day 1). As Michu said, after NotMafia got lynched, things sort of snow-balled out of proportion for the town, especially with there being such a disparity in people's reads, but I really think that Seb being substituted in for Matt broke the last straw for the town because he played well and there was not much against him due to his late entrance to the game - making an already disadvantaged town turn into a confused and disadvantaged town. So, ultimately there isn't one worst play, just a sequence of events that didn't favor the town, in my opinion. Also, I agree with what Michu said about personal bias. Had there been no personal bias, a lot of reads from, specifically, newer or less attentive players could've been altered or never even formed, preventing a mislynch or two, maybe. In addition, I think that might also go back to why Rioku jumped on Laurel wagon, but I cannot speak for his thought process (ps: agreeing with Seb, that wasn't entirely Rioku's fault, although he could have played better). Finally, although it never should have escalated like it did, I'd like to apologize to Laurel (not that this will mean much to him or I, but I digress) for my remarks after the game ended. The tensions were running high and the game ended rather abruptly, but there is no excuse for me saying what I did, regardless of the scenario.
PS: The best play is either Seb + AJ's nomination idea for day 4, or Seb pursuing (successfully) the Wae lynch at the end of day 4. This led up to my pursuing a quick-lynch day 5, on LYLO, which probably should have backfired, but (luckily) it didn't, ending the game. Basically, the overall day 4 play of Seb.
OK I've updated the awards to remove worst play (Rioku's vote was a gamechanger, as it allowed Mafia to pile on and win, but I agree that I wouldn't go as far as to say "Worst") and added Best Play Also, it was really weird how Village seemingly 180'd from Finchinator a few hours before deadline and wound up getting Milost lynched FLAKING RUINS GAMES
imo town mvp—dopog Spoiler His Finch scum read was consistent and correct, but also importantly his belief in Finch and uso not being partners without seb means if they'd lynched aj D5, the worst-case scenario was town having to choose one scum in a pool of 2 scum and 1 town during D7. So basically me saying "in case I die—lynch aj first" was my biggest contribution to the town IMO, but I was on track to mislynch on D7. Not to mention I was dumb enough to call attention to a uso scumread during D3. I can't know this for sure, but since most people were reading her town, if I'd just kept quiet about it she might have been nominated during D4 over Rioku and I could have tested that theory. But given my loudmouthed behavior it was pretty much a certainty she wouldn't be nominated until at least D6 regardless of alignment. I feel like I should have known better than that. best play—Seb calling me scum Spoiler Not the d4 nominations per se because that was essentially their only option and it was really obvious what they were doing, but specifically Seb pursuing my lynch. In hindsight it's hard to imagine anybody but scum going the extra step and actually insisting it was likely that I was scum, but at the time it was really easy to say "oh well this is just a repeat of Vanilla, he's vi again" I think Michu's being too harsh on himself as well. Honestly a lot of my scumread of him was, as he says, just bias ("they couldn't possibly have nommed all town d2!!! u scum 4 thinking that"). Plus he was right about a big part of D2 where I was wrong (NotM vs. aj) and if we'd just been more willing to talk to each other about something other than meta and whether dopog was secretly pulling the strings I think he would have been instrumental in a D2 scum lynch. Also, he was apparently the only one in the game perceptive enough to realize it was a bad idea to list off all our reads in a nomination game. Well, maybe dopog too, I can't tell if he was doing it on purpose though. --- During D2 I talked about some secret strategy I'd thought up that scum could have used for the D2 nominations. This was: pick one town randomly, then pick 2 players randomly from the rest of the pool. That way it won't look like you're trying to use any obvious strategy. Then you get people to talk about what the scum's strategy might have been, and you can use this information to help pick D4 nominations. If they figured out you were choosing randomly, then they would get no information from it. Even in the worst-case scenario where you nommed 2 scum that would probably cause town to view one of them as "clean" unless you really screwed up later on. What do you guys think of this? --- Anyway yeah I gotta go now but it was a fun game and the scum did a really good job playing to people's beliefs about meta and such.
Hey So I think after reading most people's respective thoughts on the game, this was actually wickedly close. More than any other game here - except for maybe Matrix NOC - if one of heaps of things had happened differently town would have won. Although the nature of uninformed majority is that that kinda stuff (e.g. laurel not subbing in and him and finch fighting, michu reading the noms differently d2, me voting finch in lylo instead of telling rioku to unvote, etc.) usually goes mafia's way, I believe there were so many moments in which the game could have moved from scum win to town win just from one thing! I guess also not that other stuff couldn't have made it a more convincing mafia win but yeah this game was closer when you consider the thought processes and their intertwining than it looks from raw numbers. Like a finch or aj lynch d5 would have led to town win or mafia win in 3p lylo I think. @wae: yeah I wasn't averse to other people outting their town reads because it helped me to read them better, but I made the decision not to present my confidence on my town reads [but I do do (haha dodoooooo) that in quite a few games]. And yeah when I woke up (before checking the thread and seeing the hammer) I thought why did I not push aj (or finch really) like you said straight after finch voted laurel : ( sorrrrryyyyy I was thinking of handing out some pointers for players - we all kinda played alright but not great I guess - but I dunno if I'll actually do this! byebs
Any pointers are good even if you may feel you yourself could have played better. I think this could be good to do again in the future with the stuff we've learnt
I need pointers :( Basically what happened this game for me- I got busy irl (legit) then when I stopped being busy I procrastinated a bit, then I sort of just did that for the rest of the game (partially laziness/lack of motivation, partially actually not knowing what to say) other than discussing strategy and noms etc in my scum thread. Idk, it was my first scum game in a long time, and my first NOC scum game since POAMT set 1 where I played atrociously.