Mafia Rules

Discussion in 'Mafia' started by Beast, Jan 29, 2014.

Moderators: Pamitha, Water
  1. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    If you have a problem with the rules kindly state which rule and why you have a problem with it.

    (23:38:09) *** Mafia Game Rules ***

    (23:38:09) ±Rule 1- All server rules apply in this channel. Type /rules to view them:
    (23:38:09) Ignorance of the rules does not justify breaking them. Someone else breaking a rule does not justify you breaking the same rule. If you choose to play on Android, you are not able to use it to justify rule breaking.

    (23:38:09) ±Rule 2- Mafia Admins, or MAs are here for the benefit of the channel. You can use /mas to get a listing of them:
    (23:38:09) If you are told something by an MA, it is advised you listen. PM an MA to report an instance of rulebreaking. Shouting out "BAN" and "teamvote!" and such in the chat is pointless and disrupts the game. If any MA is breaking a rule, contact a Mafia Super Admin or any Server Auth immediately.

    (23:38:09) ±Rule 3- Be respectful to your fellow players:
    (23:38:09) Do not insult players if they make a mistake. Helping them to learn the game instead of insulting them will make the game a lot more enjoyable for all. Do not flash multiple people needlessly, including trying to get them to play. Do not insult themes. If you have a legitimate complaint about a certain theme, post it in that theme's forum thread.

    (23:38:09) ±Rule 4- Make sure you can stay active for the entire game if you join, otherwise, /unjoin before the game starts:
    (23:38:09) If you must leave, you can ask a Mafia Admin in the chat for a "slay" in order to be removed from the game. A valid reason must be supplied with your request. Not liking any part of the game or participating in other channels are not valid reasons. Asking for a slay within the first few phases of the game, or leaving without asking for a slay, will result in punishment.

    (23:38:09) ±Rule 5- Do not attempt to ruin the game in any way, shape, or form:
    (23:38:09) Do not intentionally reveal, vote, or kill your teammates without their consent. Do not quote any of the game bots, including in private messages. Do not target a certain user or group of users repeatedly. If you are not currently alive in the game, do not discuss the game with anyone still playing. Do not copy other peoples' names or make your name similar to someone else's. Do not disable private messages (PMs) or ignore other players as Mafia is a game of heavy communication. Do not stall the game for any reason. Do not attempt to fake "Team Talk".


    All posts should still follow the rules. I expect this thread to be civil the entire time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2014
  2. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Honestly, I don't think the issue is the rules, but the overall attitude of people in the channel. I appreciate the effort though, at least someone's trying to improve the channel.
     
  3. Dreams

    Dreams Active Member

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    Seconding What Joey said.
    People lacking interest , not voting , not following the game , overall lack of cooperation etc. everyone wants to lead a rand , no one wants to follow, and the stigma that they might win if they do nothing is still strong. Annoying af , makes for a poor game . Send everyone to mafia tutoring :I
     
  4. The Hades

    The Hades My Wall

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    The punishment system is also messed up, defending one self is counted as against the rules and leads to more ban time
     
  5. waehofen

    waehofen Peace, love, & understanding

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    I don't think R4 is really the sort of thing that should be punished for if it's just once (or twice?) by accident.

    EDIT: speaking of which
    like I can see why you would want this if somebody tries to screw with the games but
     
  6. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I'm going to put it simply because I see the connection: Defending yourself via PM is fine. Defending yourself in public is disruptive.
     
  7. Withoutatrace

    Withoutatrace im a filthy weeb

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    If you talk to an MA, most of the time it is undone.
    Atleast with me it is. Shit happens, we're aware of that.
     
  8. The Hades

    The Hades My Wall

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    I have gotten an extension on a ban because I defended my actions via pm. I am currently not a fan of the rules and would like to see a reform. Because currently I don't think the current rules are enough, for instance it says nothing about self voting in the rules, I would like to be added on to rule #5
     
  9. Withoutatrace

    Withoutatrace im a filthy weeb

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    That would fall under trying to ruin the game.
    Selfvoting tends to lead to yourself being voted out. When it does, you ruin the game for others because you could be a viable PR. If you are a villager, you ruin the game in the perspective that you are a role that is essentially a shield for the PRs. One less actionless role to have to avoid for the Mafia, which can lead to important PRs dying. Villagers are important too, believe it or not.

    It could also count as trolling, which would fall under..well, trolling. Which I have no problem with it being added as a rule itself, even if it tends to fall under Intention to ruin the Game.
     
  10. Hopkirk

    Hopkirk +C

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    I would like to add a rule saying "do not play against your win condition".
     
  11. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    I did think of one thing. Add the no selfvoting thing to Rule 5, right now it's just floating out there as a general rule.
     
  12. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    I don't think Wincons are explicitly stated so maybe that should be changed for each role as well.

    The self voting thing should be fine to add.
     
  13. Hopkirk

    Hopkirk +C

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    Your win con would be for your side/any side you win with to win.
    Stuff that would hinder your side such as intentionally getting yourself voted out such as by claiming mafia, voting yourself or team out without permission, not converting as rotom etc would be going against your win con.
     
  14. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    I was just thinking maybe we should add a wincon option thing. That way your wincon is stated at the beginning of the game or something. I don't know but I do agree that should be a rule.
     
  15. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    In my opinion, the win condition isn't all too necessary and I wouldn't add it to my themes because things would just be clunky. We can figure out for the most part what to do. Rotom convert and kill everything else, Kuja kill all killers, etc.
     
  16. Withoutatrace

    Withoutatrace im a filthy weeb

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    Well the universal win condition is to win with your team/eliminate all threats to you/yyourteam, right?
    Seems like a rule to just say don't play against the universal win condition would be fine.
     
  17. Hopkirk

    Hopkirk +C

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    Win cons are pretty obvious as if your role already tells you side/who you win with/what other way to win if there is one.
     
  18. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Have you thought of adding the rule that no alliances with other players? It's very common and can really turn a possible win to a never win.
     
  19. Yttrium

    Yttrium Well-Known Member Developer Developer

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    By no alliances, do you mean outside influences affecting the game or mafia roles allying in a single game? It's disruptive if a group of people aid each other every game and disregard their win conditions, but if it's something like mafia keeping Kronos/Kuja alive to stop village then it's more of a strategy.
     
  20. Solace

    Solace Member

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    We had a rule that stated that you cannot work with members of another team unless it promoted your win condition (i.e. conspirators working with a specific team or solo mafia roles working with another mafia).

    Dunno what happened to it.
     
  21. Marquis

    Marquis beez in the whazzit??

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    Actually, it just stated never to work with members of other teams, and nothing about "unless it helps you", which was part of the reason behind my own mafia ban a while ago. When I left for a bit and came back, the rule was gone altogether, instead of the "unless it promotes your win condition" being added to it.

    The other reason I'm posting is because I want to draw attention in particular to our "no Night 1 or Day 1 slays" rule, which I see quite a few users complaining about on the server, but nobody's seemed to mention it here yet. What do you guys think of that rule: it makes sense, it's too strict, etc.? (Though if you just answer the previous question without stating why/providing an alternative, it doesn't help much.)
     
  22. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Delta Stream

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    @Marquis' second statement

    I really don't like the no N1 D1 slay rule. I've gotten banned for it once, and I had to leave for urgent issues. Sometimes something pops up in that one minute timeframe between Night 1 Start and Night 2 Start where you just have to leave the game, and it's really unfair to punish people who have to go with a 4h ban.

    I mean when players go afk and get banned, the ban reason tells them to ask for a slay, but in this instance, you ask for a slay and you get banned? I think the rule needs to go.
     
  23. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    Fuzzy and I are supposed to talk about rules again soon.

    Also, if you have an actual emergency tell a MA or sMA about it and they will most likely un-ban you. Saying you have to sleep after just joining is not a good reason since you know your bed-time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  24. Hopkirk

    Hopkirk +C

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    "if you have an actual emergency tell a MA or sMA about it and they will most likely ban you"

    This doesn't seem to make sense in that context.
     
  25. Beast

    Beast I do what I want

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    I meant to say un-ban. It was late.

    Hopefully Fuzzy and I are able to talk tonight and hash things out.
     
  26. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Also, there's the fact of conspirators and reveals. Let's say Marx reveals all 3 parasols/mirror d1, and 2 of the people end up being parasols. It's a Nvr@4 moment with Ax Knight, Waddle Doo, Sleep Kirby and Mirror Kirby, The Sleep Kirby votes the revealed Mirror Kirby and the other two follow. Will this count as a teamvote because Marx did reveal the other two parasols right and the Mirror.
    On to Case #2.
    Let's say its a 6 player game where 2 of the players are Diamond Dogs, 1 is Discord, 1 is Derpy Whooves and 2 are Village Roles. The Derpy Whooves do their thing, and DD's get voted off by village one by one. For several days, Discord is not killing. Derpy has 30% evade chance and is not dying to Discord's daykill. Finally, after 4 days, Derpy dies to Discord when he is revealed. Should this be counted as two charges? One) For repeated Targetting. Two) Trying to kill a conspirator that has no way harmed and wins with the killer.
    In conclusion, there should be a rule regarding conspirators.
     
  27. The Hades

    The Hades My Wall

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    I don't know why discord would target derpy, I would just kill the village role and win, then again people are stupid
     
  28. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Conspirators should not be considered teamkill/teamvote. I often say that Conspirators are the roles you should trust the least. Yeah, they can win with you, but they can also decide to pretend they are helping you and backstab you at the last second. Because they can win with more than one side, conspirators should be, at time, less reliable than mafia, because you at least know the mafia's objective, but a conspirator's plan is completely unpredictable.
    Also, if the conspirator is revealed, has some power and it's not using it to help village, lynching/killing them is perfectly fine because otherwise the conspirator will count as mafia when the game checks if Mafia already has the majority of players (AKA conspirators make village lose faster simply by being alive).
     
  29. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    No. Conspirators are not required to be left alive if they are revealed. There is actually strategy in killing conspirators and I personally hate the entire idea of a Conspirator, so if I ever get a free chance, I'll gladly kill it. Conspirators are not required to help you, nor are you required to help them. I'd use a kill of mine in order to remove a wild card from a situation in order to control the game better.

    Therefore, there will never be a rule against intentionally killing someone not on your team, but that can win with you.
     
  30. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    Marx's reveal isn't 100% accurate, he has no obligation to tell the truth

    Conspirators are on every team, so while it's stupid to try and kill them they can also choose to win with another side and so killing them could be of strategic use
     
  31. Dreams

    Dreams Active Member

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    Logs with an MA discussing the teamvote rule . further discussed with user crobat but to no satisfactory conclusion
    (16:27) Alt: I WAS TEAMVOTED
    (16:27) Alt: I WANT JUSTICE
    (16:27) Alt: do I pm dia
    (16:27) Micaiah: Where you
    (16:27) Micaiah: Were*
    (16:27) Alt: mafia
    (16:27) Micaiah: Revealed?
    (16:27) Alt: I claimed Kallen with no counters
    (16:28) Alt: even after d1
    (16:28) Micaiah: That doesnt necessarily make you clean
    (16:28) Alt: so yeah
    (16:28) Alt: what
    (16:28) Micaiah: Anybody can claim kallen
    (16:28) Alt: so if an inspector claims in default
    (16:28) Alt: I can vote him as villager
    (16:28) Alt: and let mafia win
    (16:28) Alt: ok
    (16:28) Alt: Ill keep that in minf
    (16:28) Micaiah: no its not like that
    (16:28) Alt: >_______>
    (16:28) Micaiah: Inspectors has inspects to back him up
    (16:28) Alt: nope
    (16:29) Alt: anyone can claim inspector and fake results
    (16:29) Alt: if no one counterclaims
    (16:29) Micaiah: Yes
    (16:29) Alt: its the same thing
    (16:29) Micaiah: same thing
    (16:29) Alt: and no one coutered here
    (16:29) Micaiah: that happened here
    (16:29) Alt: y
    (16:29) Alt: so basically that is not teamvoting
    (16:29) Micaiah: So it wasnt a teamvote
    (16:29) Alt: ok
    (16:29) Alt: time to troll default then :o
    (16:30) Micaiah: Ok

    So,
    A player claims a Power Role with no counters , and yet cannot be possibly free of doubt even at lylo (as in my case) and hence if the dumb villager votes him , it is not counted as a teamvote.
    So effectively, in , for example Default , A Villager can vote out the claimed inspector and yet not be called out for teamvoting since the inspector was not "revealed" and might have been faking inspects ( with no counters) all along!

    This rule has been always be vague . Example- user NotMafia being banned for killing Impa as Link after being pm'd by said role and user Daybreak not being banned for doing the same in another game. In both cases , there was only one impa pm with no counters (i.e no second claim in chat a second pm); But since impa was not "revealed" , it should be okay killing them off , but this has met with a ban for the first case and not the second , even though it was the exact same scenario with zero differences ( have no logs of these old games but maybe mafia bans have saved logs to show why a certain user was banned ).
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  32. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    If the player is not confirmed by the game to be the role they claim to be, then it's not teamvoting. Lack of counterclaims is not a reason to confirm anyone's role, as we often see the actual role keep quiet and work through PMs when someone fake claim their role.
    Remember, mafia is a game of trickery and mindgames. One's word is not enough to prove anything 100%.
     
  33. Dreams

    Dreams Active Member

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    Thank you . Might want to check into the bans then idk . Similar bans until now can be looked upon as unwarranted since all mas do not seem to follow this . Anyway , cleared a lot of stuff for me so thanks :)
     
  34. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Just a reminder that what I said is my opinion, can't say that's how MAs act, but at least for that case it seems that was the logic used.
    Of course, there are situations where a claim can be enough to confirm someone (like someone properly declaring players from different factions as their specific role before the lynch to prove it was not a mere rand), but the main point is that the only absolute cases of teamvote are those where the player is confirmed by the game, not by another player's words.
     
  35. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Mafia is based on people trusting each other. When a Role is REVEALED/EXPOSED, then it is a teamvote as the role is confirmed. Someone like Cactuar can't be accused of teamvoting (unless Cloud or 10% works) because it has a faulty inspector.
    I also wanted to mention that the Mafia Rules should have a more strict interpretation of when someone is trolling or not. When someone is teamvoting, they are trolling. But, there are other types of trolling that isn't looked into.
    DISCLAIMER= If you are mentioned in my examples, I don't hate you nor did it really happen.
    Example 1: Theme: SI
    RiceKirby: Alien here with Micaiah and Epikhairz
    Long story short, LC killed RiceKirby but he was bunker and Epikhairz won since he was really alien. There are other ways to troll in SI in similar ways.
    Example 2: Theme: Dinos
    Apato found out who Troodon was.
    Crobat: Apato here. Cobalt is Troodon.
    Long story short, Cobalt is Apato and Crobat is egg.
    Example 3: Trainers
    Pichi: Red catch me!
    Pichi gets caught along with other people, Red gets killed, they runaway(all of them) and Pichi reveals who everyone is that was part of Red's team with Blue and Green still alive.

    Would these be considered troll or no troll?
     
  36. SockPuppet

    SockPuppet lmao

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    Space Invaders is entirely a guessing game and as tedious as the theme is, people are going to do this all the time anyway.
     
  37. NotMafia

    NotMafia Miltank: Destroyer of Souls

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    1: No

    2: Yes

    3: No
     
  38. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    It's all situational, that's why MAs are instructed to make contact with you before banning (excluding extenuating circumstances).

    I can't speak for everyone, but I avoid banning for a strategy gone wrong. It was brought up before, by RiceKirby (almost 100% here), that one should not be banned because their strategy ended up not working. Blatantly teamvoting, or being Link and not believing your Impa claim and deciding to kill them first and they end up being Impa isn't strategy at all.
    If you were Link and you had most of your PRs and only 1 revealed mafia, I'd let you rand kill because either way, you're going to be randing someone at some point (assuming your role is known to all). Might as well do it when you have control over the situation because its much easier to have village vote a revealed mafiathan have a rand and the person try to weasel out of it.

    Again, its all situational. If you can prove there was a valid and reasonable reason for your actions, you shouldn't be banned. If you do, contact Beast or I and appeal.
     
  39. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    I am especially worried about the fact that many people troll a lot in SI. In every single game, people claim Alien when they are Bunkers and they troll the entire game. Nothing is said to them nor are they charged with trolling. Claiming Alien as Bunker confuses the LC as they will definitely kill the person who is acting scummy rather than the one that is really the alien. Also, people fake things such as "Fuzzy was protected!" as Bunker when the player is really the LC or another Bunker.
    People don't get warned or banned for it, as technically, it is trolling.
     
  40. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    That also has tactical value. Sometimes I act scummy on SI so Aliens will leave me live for a longer time in the hopes LC kill me, when I'm actually saving my protections and telling LC about my plan. That can be applied to other themes too, where players can fake claim Mafia to avoid getting killed.
    Of course, that is also use to troll. But the main point is: why would anyone pay attention to any mafia claim? Someone claiming mafia doesn't mean anything, they are not clean nor scummy, so it should simply be ignored.

    @SockPuppet: SI is only close to being a guessing game to LC, and only when they are somehow new to mafia tactics. SI is mainly a game of resource management, and as any mafia theme should be, it also allows for scum reading and other stuff. Not having a role that can directly find information doesn't mean players cannot obtain information (e.g.: the very original mafia game had no inspectors), so please don't call it a guessing game.
     
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