Trolling + Meatshielding

Discussion in 'Mafia' started by Fiery Espeon, Nov 20, 2013.

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  1. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Over the course of my many years playing the server Mafia, the big thing that ruins games and enjoyment is Meatshielding and trolling. Meatshielding is okay if you claim BG or any role that does not need to be protected. Meatshielding becomes trolling when you claim inspector, exposer, or any other similar PR. This is common!!! Trolling also occurs when in Vanilla, many people claim Mafia and it ends up ruining the game for the village. The trolling i cant stand is when a REAL BG claims to everyone against another meatshield and ends up dying. Please...STOP THE MADNESS.
     
  2. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    (19:26:30) ±Rule 2- Mafia Admins, or MAs are here for the benefit of the channel. You can use /mas to get a listing of them:
    (19:26:30) If you are told something by an MA, it is advised you listen. PM an MA to report an instance of rulebreaking. Shouting out "BAN" and "teamvote!" and such in the chat is pointless and disrupts the game. If any MA is breaking a rule, contact a Mafia Super Admin or any Server Auth immediately.


    If you think someone is trolling, let an MA know. Worst case is nothing happens cause it didnt affect the outcome, or something else. Sometimes we don't see things or brush them off as jesting and don't realize it might affect games all the time (especially if we are not in that game and just watching from the outside)
     
  3. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    Yes Fuzzy. But we dont want to feel like snitches and some times MAs are informed but I am talking about the Trolling that seems like jesting like claiming BG and villager when your not. But these things can affect the game none of the less. We all get carried away.
     
  4. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    The thing is that mafia is a game that involves trickery, mind games, bluffs, etc. Punishing someone for legitily trying a risky strategy like claiming BG as BG is stupid. Same for meatshielding.

    A villager saying "Inspector here" even when BG is alive is bad strategy but still should be accepted as long as they are actually trying to help their team. Actual trolling is something like when the real Inspector claims and the villager goes all "No, I'm the real Inspector, BG don't believe that guy" and then they try to lynch the real Inspector.
     
  5. Joeypals!!

    Joeypals!! Don't you worry 'bout a thing~

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    Like these two said (more along the lines of Ice than Fuzzy), trolling + meatshielding is all part of the game. You're going to get the person who fake-claims a role as Mafia to try to wipe out the village every once in a while, as we've seen with (and I'm not picking on these people just using as examples) Kland and Veteran Padgett for example. As for meatshielding, it's simply trying to keep the main, exposed PR (think like Pit in KI for example) safe due to numerous claims possibly confusing the Mafia and keeping their target off of the real target they need to hit. So, in sum, it's simply part of the game and if you can't accept it... at least adapt to it or you will be steamrolled as a result by the people able to manipulate these well.
     
  6. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    However, constantly claiming Mafia as a Villager is different than these mind games.
    And also, there's little reason to try to fake people out as to who is the key role (Insp, Samurai, etc) since you'll just wind up getting yourself lynched for looking scummy or get the real one killed by someone who believed you over them. So its pretty much just hurtful to your team or to yourself to do it, and there's hardly any gain really.

    I'd never ban the BG if they claimed BG. But if a Parasol Kirby claimed Mike, and then Mike exposed someone else (let's say a 100% confirmed town player), then there's a chance Parasol gets lynched for fake claiming. Now Mike is down a Parasol and the team is hurt by the actions of that user, then I might consider it.

    Everything is reviewed case by case and there's almost not "blanket" punishment that "anyone that does, attempts to do, partially does, etc a certain thing gets banned" in the context of "trolling."
     
  7. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    I disagree in part. Anyone who lynches solely based on an obvious fakeclaim (like claiming Mike when everyone knows Mike exposes self) is the one who is really hurting the village. People can say anything they want to convince anyone of anything, that's why Mafia is so strategic and replayable, but when people lynch with weak reasoning and it ends badly for them they blame everyone else. Often there's no good reason to claim a key PR, but there's a lot of strategies that can rely on fakeclaiming to lead to winning.

    Trolling can be problematic when someone disrupts the game by weakening their own side unnecessarily, like outting a scum teammate or if villagers counterclaim against the village. But outside of these sorts of circumstances the vast majority of deception is strategically done, and it's not fair to punish it and call it trolling as some are wont to do.
     
  8. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Not really. I sometimes try the strategy of playing scummy in SI so Aliens will keep me alive for a longer time, and then I can safely save my protections. The same can be applied to almost any theme, you act scummy to make mafia think it's a good idea to let you live until village lynches you.

    Rules like that is what makes most games a Follow the Cop situation. It only assumes optimized play, as if there was a instruction booklet to be followed, as if players are not allowed to try other risky strategies to confuse the opponents. It doesn't assume, in that example, that Parasol may be trying to make Mafia not kill or distract them, as that could pay off well for the team is successfully pulled.
    Mind games are strong specially because of their risk. Punishing someone because their strategy was risky and didn't work is basically the same as punishing for not knowing how to play, which only hurts the game as a whole.

    And no, I'm not including trolling in there. If there's a clear intention of trolling, then of course they should be punished, but if it's only a bad strategy that didn't work, punishing the player would be stupid.
     
  9. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    These Examples are much more common:
    Zelda: citizen claims link. Koume is alive. Link kills fake link thinking Vaati or Koume. Koume kills Link and bye bye village.
    FE; Soldier claims Roy/Ike. Ike kills Soldier or Roy exposes Soldier, losing a kill or an expose. Nergal alive and bye bye Roy.
    Kirby: Sleep kirby/any other Kirby claims Mike Kirby. Ice BGs fake Mike. Mike dies.
    anyway, Rice, the possibility of dying is much more greater than surviving as some PRS in Kirby tend to keep their kills at Mike Anyway.
     
  10. Hopkirk

    Hopkirk +C

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    Prs should make sensible decisions too. It's no good saying that prs should do their actions when it will get them killed when it's obvious that people aren't really the pr (as prs wouldn't claim then /wifom).

    Something like sleep claiming mike however is banable. It's OK if the pr is under threat but not if they aren't under threat.
     
  11. Withoutatrace

    Withoutatrace im a filthy weeb

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    Those examples, bar Kirby, are just a lack of sense on the PRs part as Hopkirk said. In Zelda, of course Koume is threatening Link since Link's daykill exposes. So others will try to bait Koume in killing the 'Link', but instead Koume kills per say a Citizen. Link gets to kill with no direct threats to it's life.
    Another example I can give is Death Note. Someone claiming L is most likely meatshielding and no harm is done; meatshielding L is done because the obvious daykiller is in. So L interpoling the meatshielder is just a lack of common mafia sense.
     
  12. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Most of those examples are still a case of bad play, not trolling*. It can get a PR dead? Yes, it can, but it can also work perfectly well. Even a obvious troll could end helping a PR by fake claiming. Does it stop being trolling if it actually works in favor of your team?
    If people get banned for that, then we could as well forbid any fake claim at all, which would make Mafia pointless.

    *Yes, they can be used to troll the game too, but people can actually try that to benefit their team, so it's primarily a bad play instead of trolling. Those would fit as trolling when you deliberately choose a bad strategy intending to hurt your team.
     
  13. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    If Mike doesn't claim and dies then it's their fault. Same for Roy.
    Meatshielding is a legitimate defensive strategy, and it MORE than often helps the village out. There's a fine line between claiming Mike as Sleep after true one claimed and claiming Mike to draw killers to you when you're a sleep
     
  14. Marche Radiuju

    Marche Radiuju crush it casually

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    Mike claiming can be bad if Dark Matter wants to prevent connection at the cost of being revealed (99 votes).

    These kind of issues where people get enraged and call you a troll for (happened to me once) not claiming as inspector are the problems that make Mafia less fun. There's a huge amount of freedom in how to play, and forcing strategy to be Follow the Cop just because it's the easiest way to win as village isn't fun or fair. It rarely becomes an issue since the MAs are pretty good but when the general playerbase does this it turns me, at least, away from the game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  15. Solace

    Solace Member

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    I generally go by a few golden guidelines:

    -Don't claim a Mafia role as a Town role.
    -Don't fakeclaim the PR that should be protected by the BG until the BG dies.

    Edit:

    On a side note, I claimed Kiba as Kiba last night and actually lived to the end of the game for the first time in quite a while.
     
  16. Fuzzysqurl

    Fuzzysqurl baa baa mareep I do what I want Server Owner Developer I do what I want Server Owner Developer

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    Hence the case by case review. If someone is intentionally doing it to attempt to get the real one killed, then we have more basis to punish. A lack of basis = no ban.
    Say, for example, I'm pissed at Beast for tricking me last game. This game he turns up as Link/Inspector/Mike/etc. I claim his role after him in the attempt to get him killed in revenge, and it succeeds. Previous comments showed that I did not appreciate the trickery last game and would get my "revenge" for it (This can be as simple as "killing beast n1" or "screw you beast, you're garbage"... Though we all know this part is usually more profane/offensive). In this case, we're going to ban because it was intentionally hurtful to the team for something childish.


    Also by the "constantly claiming Mafia" i mean to a point where it disrupts the game because the player is trying to get themselves killed by the village (Such as constantly claiming Ganondorf during Zelda as a citizen because they didn't want to be a citizen and would rather exit the game)


    As far as "risky strategies" go, this is why we (at least in a perfect world) PM people before banning to see why they did it. If the intent was to hurt, then we punish. If it was just failed strategy, it's case by case.



    **Disclaimer: I'm speaking out of my experience and ways that I go about banning people. All MAs have different views on things and might act differently.
     
  17. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Bottom line is, we ban for rule-breaking, not bad play. If a rule is broken in the process (i.e. intentionally harming your team's chance of winning etc.), then we'll look into it.
     
  18. astrohawke

    astrohawke Member

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    I just want to post something here because a MA tried to "warn" me not to fake claim Inspector as a less important role and insisted that it is a horrible strat when I tried to explain why I do it. I think anyone who has played mafia for a good amount of time realizes that it is a completely legitimate strat.

    I won't go into all the different themes because obviously each one is unique in how they are played but let's talk about default. There are a ton of games where the Inspector claims on night 1 and the BG dies the same night. Well shucks...now the inspector is exposed.

    It is soooo useful to fakeclaim inspector after the BG is dead and the inspector already claimed n1 as many people seem to believe they should to play follow-the-cop. How does waiting until BG is dead to fakeclaim even work as a strat? Either the inspector didn't claim at all and there's no communication among the villagers or the inspector did claim and will die straight after the BG anyway. Either way, fakeclaiming only after the BG is taken out is worthless in 90% of the cases.

    On the other hand, a villager can fake claim inspector and get the PRs to pm. The Inspector inspects that villager and gains a voice. Then on day 1 that villager can connect the inspector with all the PRs who pmed him. By doing so, the inspector can still be guarded, there's a good chance the mafia may attempt to kill the real inspector (who is guarded), thus wasting a kill and if the BG is killed, the real inspector isn't instantly exposed, the mafia will probably waste a kill on the voice and more often than not, that can be a determining factor who whether villagers win or lose.

    It can work. It can also backfire. It depends a lot on the experience of the players but in my experience, if every player was a veteran, this strategy has much more pros than cons. Of course if the actual inspector immediately counterclaims you or tries to get you killed because you fake claimed him (as many new players will), that sucks but it doesn't mean the strat isn't legit.

    The point is, mafia is a game of deception and manipulation. There are a host of viable strats. Just because you aren't familiar with how a strat can work, don't dismiss it and try to insist it's bad (especially if someone tries to explain why it's good). When someone actually trolls to hurt their team, it's painfully obvious. Most of the time it's just bad plays or risky strats that backfired. Rarely is it actual trolling. Don't try to force people to play how you think a game should be played which seems to be happening more and more with all these "rules" in the mafia channel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  19. Steam Baron

    Steam Baron The Steamroller Guy

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    I just hope you understand this: in a situation where the role who carries the village (Inspector in Default and Link in Zelda, for example) dies and you ends up alive, you'll be always lynched d1, meaning the village's game is pretty much lost if the plan backfires. ALSO, the inspector could, like, find a scum instead of inspect you for a voice.

    While fakeclaim as a leader-type role is a legit strategy, it's too risky to pull it off and I do believe that's why this rule is enforced.
     
  20. astrohawke

    astrohawke Member

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    If we are banning because something is "too risky", we might as well not be playing mafia. Mafia is pretty stupid if every game is just Inspector claims, connects PRs and votes out mafia or mafia get lucky, kills BG/Insp early and wins the game.

    You realize that the chance of inspector dying on n1 because you took his BG is the same chance of BG dying on n1 which results in inspector dying on n2 anyway. So ultimately, it's not any more risky. The inspector "could" find a scum on n1 instead. Keyword being could. The BG "could" also die on n1. The PL "could" block the BG and the insp dies anyway. The inspector "could" also inspect and lynch a miller making himself look suspect. Lots of things "could" happen. Point is, whatever move you decide to make can work out or backfire.

    Let me change this quote around a bit. In a situation where the inspector claims and the BG dies on the same turn, the inspector will almost always die immediately afterwards meaning the village's game is pretty much lost. So I think claiming should be against the rules to reduce the risk of this happening. See how that logic works?

    Using the logic that "if a plan can backfire, it's terrible and should be against the rules", we shouldn't be allowed to do anything because every plan can backfire and end the game.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  21. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    I acknowledge that is a viable strategy, however, it seems like we've gravitated towards an Occam's Razor-esque style of dictating how mafia is played by just going for the simplest strategy. The problem with villager claiming inspector and inspector voicing them is that this strategy requires the inspector to understand what the villager is doing rather than thinking the villager is fakeclaiming as mafia in order to obtain the village PRs. They will not necessarily inspect them n1 in this case because they know are the mafia. It's much simpler to maintain order by ensuring that when there is an inspector claim that it is the actual inspector that claims rather than someone trying to keep the inspector undercover.

    The thing with the bodyguard dying after an inspector claim is that although the inspector will die the next night, he still has time to connect the other PRs to each other, which results in a more organized village rather than a meatshield causing the real inspector/central power role to die and then a mislynch of a villager because town incorrectly saw them as mafia. The problem there as I understand it is that the meatshield is unnecessary when there's a perfectly viable and 'safe' play done in themes where the inspector can claim without any mafia to directly threaten them.
     
  22. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    In that situation, no rule would be broken... so
     
  23. astrohawke

    astrohawke Member

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    If the inspector decides to just draw the conclusion that the villager is mafia for fake claiming without checking, that's his own fault. I don't see why we should be playing the game under the assumption that we are playing with people who can't think laterally. Apparently if I'm lying, I must be bad...in a game revolving around lies and manipulation.

    I can say that out of every 100 games of mafia, less than 5 will have the mafia claim they are the inspector on n1. It's a huge risk to do so but of course big rewards if it pays off. Therefore, if any inspector immediately draws that conclusion, they are either new or have rather weak reasoning.

    The point is that there are pros and cons to each strat. Yes your village may be slightly more organized after the BG and Insp dies. But my village banks on the insp not dying at all even if the BG goes down by making the mafia spend multiple turns wasting their kills on protected targets and citizens. Pros and cons. If you acknowledge that it's a viable strat, then there's no reason it should be against the rules just because it's deemed "less safe" (even though it's not but whatever).

    Playing safe strats and banning risky ones, is that what we're all about now? To be honest, if you're playing mafia to win in the easiest and safest way possible, you're doing it wrong. I can rally a village together, play follow the cop and get a flawless victory in 3 days. These are the most boring games. The good games are the ones where you're not really sure who's who, everyone is trying to deceive each other and using deductive reasoning to figure out people's roles. That's the whole point of mafia. Not sit and vote who the cop tells you to vote and hope he finds the mafia before they kill all the PRs for a meaningless win.
     
  24. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    No offense for anyone i mention:
    Imagine its a Zelda game. It is n1.
    Roild: Link HERE
    Lucario_3: I am DA real Link
    RiceKirby: OK Nayru bg both of them
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Game-Roild(Link) died!
    Lucario_3 (Citizen) died!
    Veteran Padgett (Nayru) died!

    This Deals with 3 types of "jesting" (trolling)
    First of all, Nayru Bged random people and RiceKirby
    Link dies and so does any other Pr (Navi)
    I know, I know it may be known as "bad play" but it isnt when it is every time he/she is Nayru/Impa. (TRUST ME. It has happened before. I think the time MeowMix was an MA, but trust me it was a crazy time where it wasnt banning all the time and it was detaining.)
    Second, a citizen fake claimed a PR that is supposed to claim (NO KOUME). This is very common. Not to mention any names. *cough* Now this is server trolling, Sometimes it gets overlooked as jesting but it shouldn't.
    Thirdly, RiceKirby was targeted (because there are only there kills and lets just guess that there are 18 Players). Nayru knows what he is doing and no one needs to point this out. Nayru will think you are someone important and the Mafia ovbiously will know that. so, if you are an important PR or not, don't try to give advice. You can RAGE quietly in the corner. This is also "bad play" but not something the everyday person would know. Also, PRs can talk so they don't get targeted as most PRS are quiet n1.
     
  25. Stocke

    Stocke Wat is dis I don't even

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    You know, there's this thing that goes "if you don't like it, don't play". If you consider boring a game where inspector claims n1 and leads village, then fine. But I'm not going to sit to listen that "you're playing mafia wrong if you do that" just because mafia isn't working the way you would want it to work.

    I still see no problem in that inspector dies after BG does and you don't present an actual case for it being a bad thing to happen. What's so wrong with village having a reliable leader? This isn't a tabletop game, it's quite harder to read people when all you have is messages in a screen, even harder when each phase lasts 30 seconds. Also your assertion that Inspector will undoubtly live longer with people fakeclaiming is amusing. Let's see how the scenario would play if we allow risky playing like that. To begin with, the voice can (and will probably) die, leaving Inspector in the need of a new voice/connector, so we're back to square one. And you're also assuming only one person is going to fakeclaim. In practice you would easily have 3 or 4 people claiming Inspector, and mafia being one of them wouldn't be a "less than 5% chance" since the risk would be minor. Quite a chance it's more people doing so if it's a decent medium-large game. BG would have to pick at random who to protect, and same thing with PMing. Connecting the PRs becomes an oddyssey. Meanwhile mafia is killing at random and only threatened by rands or other mafias (with heightened probability to get a PR since BG can't be sure about who they should protect), since no one can really get clean out of the mess. Odds are that a PR gets voted out because anyone can claim anything, no strings attached. The game becomes reliant on luck for village to win.

    To sum up your village relies on too many variables happening to go your way when most of the time that isn't going to happen. And your village would still rely on the Inspector either way, so there's no reason for him not claiming to begin with.

    But of course, that is the logical and correct way to play. Relying on tactics that make it safer for your team to win? Preposterous! After all, who wants to do that? It's soooo boring. [/sarcasm]

    Your arguments are pretty much nonsense IMO, claiming that your alternative strategy doesn't carry more risks than "follow the leader" when you yourself admit that "I can rally a village together, play follow the cop and get a flawless victory in 3 days" and I already pointed out the heavy problems that come with letting anyone claim. And so though we go in a case by case basis I'm not going to allow village-sided players fake leader roles if there's no threat. It only encourages more people to do the same making village a less organized team and that decreases their chances to win. Go play Real Time Mafia (there's a channel for that) or forum Mafia instead if you don't like the regular one. Those are probably better suited for your tastes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  26. Steam Baron

    Steam Baron The Steamroller Guy

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    This will be fun :)

    The "don't claim as leader role" thing isn't bannable because it's risky; it's actually viable if the inspector isn't willing to claim (and connect), since a village without a leader or/and connection is pretty much doomed.
    Since Sky told they analyze case by case to see if it was bad play or a move planned to f'k up the village, I do believe it is banned because when you claim a leader-role and the things go wrong, not only you lose a important PR and you'll end lynched but the village starts to panic. No one trusts no one, connecting gets harder and mafias can only lose via x-fire or dumbness.

    Also, we don't need deliberately sabotage the village just to mafia stop to be "pretty stupid". Blame the mafias if they aren't good enough to mess up the village.

    True. Anything may backfire or not and that's why village needs a leader, to things go smooth instead of backfire. If you take the leader of village and gets yourself lynched or killed in the process, better villagers hope for a lucky x-fire or for some other PR take the leadership (with the added risk of not being BGd or being lynched because, since someone tried to be a leader when he shouldn't, the villagers may be wary and go all like "lol, this guy is trying to lead us? he must be bad").

    Except no one will lynch the inspector for claiming, giving him a full day to connect PRs and, with a good PL, still be in the game. Also, why claim to lead the village when you are supposed to do so would be against the rules?

    But the logic isn't "make all the plans who have a chance of backfire be against rules". The logic is "plans who put all the village at risk when they aren't necessary should be against rules"
     
  27. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    For now I'm just going to note that only certain themes have this 'follow the cop' formula (Default, Zelda, SSBB to some extent). Most other themes have established powerful PRs that can lead, but not immediately, therefore giving people the ability to meatshield those and have the inspector clear them in a similar manner to the one you suggest. In fact, that's probably what happens most often.

    I must also note that Zelda is currently undergoing changes so the theme might not be the same as it is now, and default is supposed to be a theme to teach new players how to play, in which case the concepts of meatshielding and voicing will probably be too complicated for newbies at first glance.
     
  28. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    Sky Sentinel
    slow your roll, he just said it wasn't as fun to play follow the cop. and it's not, and it's especially uncool for the Mafia-- turns every game into a find the bodyguard then hope the connected PRs don't put 2 and 2 together. as games grow longer, the chances for, say, the IM and the FCM to hit the bodyguard are slimmer and slimmer. the village has immense voting power, a roleblocker, and a spy to pick up anything the inspector misses.

    You also must remember that the village isn't the only team in the game. It takes no skill to play follow the cop; the newest of players can do it. it takes little no effort from any other member of the team. meanwhile, the mafia is working its ass off to find and eliminate the bodyguard, spy, and hooker, knowing that any day the dreaded inspector could blurt out, "Get him, he's the mafia!" and end it all at once. I mean sure, it's fun to win, and it doesn't always play out the way it should.

    mafia is supposed to be a game of logic and trust, right? so sure, you trust the inspector for one night, then he votes out a baddie and it's pretty much just wait and vote and then feel proud of yourself for typing /vote [name]

    anyway, like i said a hundred times (okay twice) if a rule is broken, we will look into it and deliver punishment. Meatshielding is a very legitimate strategy, as is outright fakeclaiming. If you're harming your team in the process, then you break a rule. if you're trying to help out as best you can and be the best damn villager there ever was, then that's another story.

    In fact, meatshielding is so legitimate a strategy that it has evolved into meatshielding a meatshield becoming a legitimate strategy. claim BG as the BG, no one will think you're stupid enough to claim as BG.


    Anyway, the sad thing is follow the cop is easy. It's simple. We have enough new players to where it's just always going to happen the same way. in a 5 minute game, there's not enough room to debate what should be happening and it just plays out the way it plays out. which may suck, but that's just how it works.

    like hell it is, no progress has been made since like april
     
  29. Windblown

    Windblown sable knight

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    If Koume isn’t in, it falls on the bodyguard to protect someone who they believe to be the true Link, in the case of multiple claims or if it isn’t Nayru and is just Impa. In that situation, the citizen was, in all honesty, playing suboptimally at best, and trolling at worst. There’s really no reason to claim Link or any revealing samurai – if this was Locke, FF’s inspector, that we were talking about, for example (and assuming no stuff like Kefka/Kuja/Sephiroth), that villager was impeding the best chance for village to win. Note that we actually do ban the citizen in this case for stuff like that.

    Nothing is against giving the PRs advice. Sometimes the PR may be confused as to what to do and if a few people in the chat agree on a particular action there’s no harm in that PR taking the advice and doing that. If you want to go further on specifics, you could make the case that Rice was an experienced player (use him as a substitute for any veteran really) and therefore it would be wise for Nayru to follow it.

    “anyway, like i said a hundred times (okay twice) if a rule is broken, we will look into it and deliver punishment. Meatshielding is a very legitimate strategy, as is outright fakeclaiming. If you're harming your team in the process, then you break a rule. if you're trying to help out as best you can and be the best damn villager there ever was, then that's another story.”

    I basically agree with all of this though. We don’t ban without hearing the person’s side first (in almost all cases), so don’t worry about MAs getting on your case for trying out a few risky plays or so, just note that we’re the ones just enforcing the law, not writing it.
     
  30. Stocke

    Stocke Wat is dis I don't even

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  31. IceKirby

    IceKirby A.K.A. RiceKirby

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    Not going to quote everything, but there's just one argument that's extremely ridiculous here: Some people are practically arguing that "you should only use the safest strategy" or "don't use a risky strategy if there's a safer one available". This is utterly bs, as it completely removes the meaning of the word "strategy". Choosing more risks for a higher reward is part of the whole strategizing process.

    You guys are discussing possibilities, and to be frank, all of them are true. I already saw all examples mentioned here both working well and failing hard. I've even seen Bodyguard voicing Inspector and both surviving the whole game. The main point here is that mafia is fun because all those situations can occur, so not allowing (or even disencouraging) such strategies is absolutely hurtful to Mafia.
     
  32. Fiery Espeon

    Fiery Espeon The fire never bothered me anyway ~

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    I have nothing against risky strategies. There is actually some types of meatshielding that I like. One is the common meatshield of Locke or Any PR. Usually the meatshielder is a moogle. Oh the other hand, most mafia are smart enough to know not to kill you. We also have the common revealing of villagers. it is fine to reveal your a villager in a game with more than 5 villagers but in a game with 2 villagers, i wouldn't "claim" and reveal the PRs. I don't care if im suspicious or i am counted as "not claiming" because this is an important TIP when playing mafia: Don't reveal the PRS. Here is an example;
    The Roles Have Been Decided:
    Roles- Katy Perry (villager), Windblown (Boycotter). A New Player(the nice guy), Matt Ayala(Villager)
    Katy Perry: Villager
    WIndblown: Villager
    Matt Ayala: Villager :(
    The New Player: okay im the nice guy
    -------------------
    Nice Guy votes Windblown(to kill Matt Ayala who claimed last)
    Windblown kills Nice Guy and now both Matt Ayala and Katy Perry are blocked.
    Windblown wins because of the concept of claiming later=SCUM
    the person to claim first/second more likely to be Mafia
     
  33. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    you what mate, you just derailed your entire thread's point

     
  34. Roild

    Roild Member

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    Don't claim a role who can safely claim and helps village if does. If said role hasn't claimed, you should still wait in case the other role is also waiting for something. Most other things are okay, depending on intent.
     
  35. Silone

    Silone Kanade <3

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    I'm one of them that likes to claim real inspector one game and live till the end and then the next game claim BG again and I'm villager, Mind Games make the world go round, There are a lot of ways to play mafia too, Are you saying we can't meatshield but we can but if we do claim the right role it's trolling? lolwut
     
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