Hoenn Wars (name subject to change)

Discussion in 'Theme Development' started by Rainbow Crash, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Rainbow Crash

    Rainbow Crash Member

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    I had this idea for a theme a long time ago, and decided to try making it and see how it turned out. I think it turned out decently, although it could be better in time (with testing and feedback). The premise is that Kyogre and Groudon are fighting, with wild pokemon and team aqua/magma as allies. Rayquaza is alone, Keckleon is a... Kind of conspirator thingy. Humans are useless except voting, but can be recruited by Archie/Maxie to become Grunts serving Groudon/Kyogre. I haven't decided on a good name yet, and so I need suggestions for that. One idea is Weather Wars. The fewer the players, the more imbalanced it is, I think, but better slightly imbalanced than unplayable with low players in my opinion. It's not like it's going to be completely one-way (I think).

    Raw data can be found here (updated): http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=z4UGP88d
    Sides:
    Kecleon:
    • Kecleon
    Rayquaza:
    • Green Kecleon
    • Rayquaza
    • Rayquaza
    • Shiny Rayquaza
    Team Groudon:
    • Aggron
    • Blaziken
    • Camerupt
    • Claydol
    • Combusken
    • Groudon
    • Magma Grunt
    • Maxie
    • Red Kecleon
    • Solrock
    • Trapinch
    Team Kyogre:
    • Aqua Grunt
    • Archie
    • Blue Kecleon
    • Carvanah
    • Kyogre
    • Lunatone
    • Milotic
    • Relicanth
    • Sharpedo
    • Swampert
    • Wailord
    Trainers:
    • Trainer
    Team Groudon
    Groudon (groudon)
    Help Text: You are Groudon, the Lord of the Continents. You can kill once per night with /kill [name], and cannot be distracted. Additionally, your vote counts as 2 and you avoid most daykills..
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill:
    • Can't be distracted.
    • Has a 70% chance of evading daykills.
    • On Death:
      • Convert the following roles: Combusken (to Blaziken).
    • Vote counts as 2.

    Camerupt (camerupt)
    Help Text: Protect your team with /protect [name]. You cannot be distracted.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Protect:
    • Can't be distracted.

    Trapinch (trapinch)
    Help Text: Can /trap [name] to make an opponent unable to move. As a pre-evo, you have a vote of 0.5 and a voteshield of -1.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Trap: Distract.
    • Vote counts as 0.5.
    • Voteshield of -1.

    Claydol (claydol)
    Help Text: You can use /inspect [name] to read someones mind and find out their role, but you have a chance to see them as Trainer even if they aren't.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Inspect: Can inspect target as True Role [70.00%] or Trainer [30.00%].

    Aggron (aggron)
    Help Text: Your hide is so thick, almost nothing can penetrate it, allowing you to avoid 50% of night kills! Your intimidating stature grants you 1.6 votes.
    Abilities:
    • Has a 50% chance of evading kill.
    • Vote counts as 1.6.

    Solrock (solrock)
    Help Text: Protect your team with /protect [name]. You poison attackers.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Protect:
    • Poison anyone that kill this role for 1 turns.

    Combusken (combusken)
    Help Text: You can type /kill [name] once per night to kill someone, but it only has a 10% chance of working. If Groudon dies, you will evolve.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill: Has a 90% chance of failing.

    Blaziken (blaziken)
    Help Text: The power of the Red Orb is yours! Type /kill [name] once per night to kill someone.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill:

    Maxie (maxie)
    Help Text: You are Maxie, founder and leader of Team Magma. Now that Groudon has been awoken, you serve him. Type /recruit [name] once per night to turn a Trainer into a Magma Grunt.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Recruit: Convert.
        • Can convert to Magma Grunt (Trainer).

    Magma Grunt (magmaGrunt)
    Help Text: You're an average grunt in Team Magma. You can vote, and have a chance to hax people. You know Maxie and the rest of the Magma Grunts.
    Abilities:
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (10%). Player/Team (5%).
    • Knows Maxie and Magma Grunt.

    Red Kecleon (redKecleon)
    Help Text: You are now sided with Team Groudon. Type /blue or /green to changes teams.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Blue: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Blue Kecleon (Red Kecleon).
      • Green: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Green Kecleon (Red Kecleon).
    • Can't be distracted.
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (30%). Player/Team (5%).
    Team Kyogre
    Kyogre (kyogre)
    Help Text: You are the Lady of the Seas, the great leviathan Kyogre! Type /kill [name] and /freeze [name] once a night to kill and distract foes. Additionally, your vote counts as 2.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill:
      • Freeze: Distract.
    • Has a 70% chance of evading daykills.
    • On Death:
      • Convert the following roles: Carvanah (to Sharpedo).
    • Vote counts as 2.

    Wailord
    (wailord)
    Help Text: You're so huge, almost nothing can hurt you! You can protect at night with /protect [name] and evade daykills!
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Protect:
    • Can't be daykilled.

    Milotic (milotic)
    Help Text: You're Milotic, the Tender Pokemon. You can /distract [name] once per night, and as a well-liked Pokemon your vote counts as 1.5.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Distract:
    • Vote counts as 1.5.

    Relicanth (relicanth)
    Help Text: You can /stalk [name] someone to stealthily follow them and see what they did. [Hint]: If Swampert is in play, spam your command, as Swampert can hax you.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Stalk:

    Swampert (swampert)
    Help Text: A well loved and amiable pokemon, you get a vote of 2.1. You have a chance of haxing Relicanth.
    Abilities:
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Stalk: Team/Action/Target (20%). Player/Team (20%).
    • Vote counts as 2.1.

    Lunatone (lunatone)
    Help Text: Protect your team with /protect [name]. You have a chance to find out who's dying so you can protect them.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Protect:
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (70%).

    Carvanah
    (carvanah)
    Help Text: You can type /kill [name] once per night to kill someone, but it only has a 10% chance of working. If Groudon dies, you will evolve.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill: Has a 90% chance of failing.

    Sharpedo (sharpedo)
    Help Text: The power of the Blue Orb is yours! Type /kill [name] once per night to kill someone.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill:

    Archie (archie)
    Help Text: You are Archie, founder and leader of Team Aqua. Now that Kyogre has been awoken, you serve her. Type /recruit [name] once per night to turn a Trainer into an Aqua Grunt.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Recruit: Convert.
        • Can convert to Aqua Grunt (Trainer).

    Aqua Grunt (aquaGrunt)
    Help Text: You're an average grunt in Team Aqua. You can vote, and have a chance to hax people. You know Archie and the rest of the Aqua Grunts.
    Abilities:
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (9%). Player/Team (6%).
    • Knows Archie and Aqua Grunt.

    Blue Kecleon
    (blueKecleon)
    Help Text: You are now sided with Team Kyogre. Type /red or /green to changes teams.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Red: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Red Kecleon (Blue Kecleon).
      • Green: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Green Kecleon (Blue Kecleon).
    • Can't be distracted.
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (30%). Player/Team (5%).
    (Team) Rayquaza
    Rayquaza (rayquaza0)
    Help Text: The Sky High Serpent Rayquaza! It's your job to deal with Groudon and Kyogre when they fight, and the time is now! Suffocate foes with /airlock [name] every other day starting day 2, and every other night starting night 1. You have a vote of 2.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Kill: Can be used every 2 nights.
    • Standby Actions:
      • Airlock: Kill. User is not revealed. Can be used every 2 days. First use only after 1 days.
    • Vote counts as 2.

    Rayquaza (rayquaza)
    Help Text: The Sky High Serpent Rayquaza! It's your job to deal with Groudon and Kyogre when they fight, and the time is now! Suffocate foes with /airlock [name] during the day, and inspect people at night with /inspect [name]. You have a vote of 3.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Inspect:
    • Standby Actions:
      • Airlock: Kill. User is not revealed.
    • Vote counts as 3.

    Shiny Rayquaza (shinyRayquaza)
    Help Text: The Shiny Sky High Serpent Rayquaza! It's your job to deal with Groudon and Kyogre when they fight, and the time is now! Suffocate foes with /airlock [name] once per day and night, and inspect people at night with /inspect [name]. You have a vote of 4, and a voteshield of -0.5.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Inspect:
      • Airlock: Kill.
    • Standby Actions:
      • Airlock: Kill. User is not revealed.
    • Vote counts as 4.
    • Voteshield of -0.5.

    Green Kecleon (greenKecleon)
    Help Text: You are now sided with Rayquaza. Type /red or /green to changes teams.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Red: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Red Kecleon (Green Kecleon).
      • Blue: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Blue Kecleon (Green Kecleon).
    • Can't be distracted.
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (30%). Player/Team (5%).
    (Team) Trainers
    Trainer (human)
    Help Text: You're a Trainer. You can be recruited into Team Aqua/Magma, and you can vote! Unfortunately, you can't do much else.
    Abilities:
    Keckleon
    Kecleon (kecleon)
    Help Text: You can convert at any time between Kecleon (sided with yourself), Red Kecleon (sided with Team Groudon), Blue Kecleon (sided with Team Kyogre), and Green Kecleon (sided with Rayquaza), using /red /green and /blue. This allows you to jump ship whenever you want to try to be on the winning team. You also get 30% hax on who's dying, and 5% on who's killing them. You ignore distractions.
    Abilities:
    • Night Actions:
      • Red: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Red Kecleon (Kecleon).
      • Blue: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Blue Kecleon (Kecleon).
      • Green: Convert. Can only be used on itself.
        • Can convert to Green Kecleon (Kecleon).
    • Can't be distracted.
    • Gets night hax on:
      • Kill: Team/Action/Target (30%). Player/Team (5%).
    Priority:
    [1] Trapinch (Trap-distract)
    [2] Kyogre (Freeze-distract)
    [2] Milotic (Distract)
    [3] Camerupt (Protect)
    [3] Wailord (Protect)
    [3] Solrock (Protect)
    [3] Lunatone (Protect)
    [3] Maxie (Recruit-convert)
    [3] Archie (Recruit-convert)
    [4] Groudon (Kill)
    [4] Shiny Rayquaza (Airlock-kill)
    [5] Kyogre (Kill)
    [5] Sharpedo (Kill)
    [6] Combusken (Kill)
    [6] Carvanah (Kill)
    [6] Blaziken (Kill)
    [6] Rayquaza (Inspect)
    [7] Claydol (Inspect)
    [7] Relicanth (Stalk)
    [7] Shiny Rayquaza (Inspect)
    [8] Kecleons (Convert-red, green, blue)

    Anyways, I may potentially add more roles. I tried to make the two teams as different as possible while still being balanced, but they may not be balanced.
    Things I'm considering:
    Ash (sided with Rayquaza)
    Give Wailord self-protect and no daykill evade
    Give Claydol 10% better inspect accuracy
    Make Camerupt/Wailord know Groudon/Kyogre
    Giovanni (converts humans to rockets who share a kill and has a nightkill. Knows humans. 21+ players or so.)
    Shiny Rayquaza ignores distracters

    Any suggestions are appreciated. That's why I'm posting it here. I don't expect it to be accepted first try in Mafia Review.

    Major update! Added Combusken/Blaziken and Carvanah/Sharpedo. A good deal of balancing, added kill messages, changed text to seem less far out, fixed some bugs, and just smoothed things over in general. In the next update I'm balancing things so Ray can't easily dispatch Groudon and Kyogre.

    Another large update! Added Solrock and Lunatone in large games (Both are BGs, Solrock poisons killers and Lunatone gets 70% hax on who's dying), added Aggron and Swampert (Aggron has 1.6 votes and evades 50% of nightkills, Swampert has 2.1 votes and can hax Relicanth). Also, balanced things more. Gave Kyogre/Groudon 70% chance to evade daykills, and changed the 3-6 player Rayquaza.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
  2. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    1. You need to make a max of 40 players unless its a nonpeak. You have just added a lot of trainers to do it. You really need to add more roles

    2. "You're an average grunt in Team Magma. You can vote, and have a chance to kill people. You know Maxie and the rest of the Magma Grunts.", The chance to kill is not coded. Aqua Grunt too.

    3. Its Kecleon and not Keckleon :3

    4. "I tried to make the two teams as different as possible while still being balanced, but they may not be balanced." They are kinda the same with names changed imo and thus they are balanced xD

    5. Why would Ash be sided with Rayquaza? Imo you can add Ash as another side while converting trainers to his side (Like Nergal in FF FE whatever)

    6. Maybe when leaders are there, Sharpedo and Blaziken are Torchic and Carvanha, then they evolve?

    7. Kecleon is worthless when alone, then why must it convert to normal form?

    8. Nightkill + Daykill + Insp makes Rayquaza too OP for small games. Reduce one of the commands maybe.

    9. Shiny Rayquaza and Rayquaza both appear in larger games?

    There was already a Hoenn theme on the server but I think it was put down due to village being OP. Try making better than that.

    http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?15902-Hoenn
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2013
  3. Angel Flonne

    Angel Flonne macaron

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    Is there a need for Ash to be in nearly every Pokemon theme there is/was? I don't think it's really necessary, I dislike the flavour of that. If you made him a nergal like role, this theme would end up very much similar to a reverse trainers.
     
  4. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    Flonne, that would be the only way to fit Ash in this theme.
     
  5. Rainbow Crash

    Rainbow Crash Member

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    Some of these points are invalid to an extent, and so I'll address them first:
    Angel, There is no need for Ash to be in every Pokemon theme, which is why he's not here. I just said that I *could* add him. He would be sided with Rayquaza because Rayquaza is trying to stop the fighting and that's kind of what Ash does, you know? I don't really like Ash, so yeah.

    Michael,

    1. This theme is really intended as a non-peak theme for about 20 max people, and so more humans are just filler so that it *could* be a peak theme. I fully intend to add more roles, but the ones I have planned/considered I wanted input on (my number 1 idea is the Blaziken/Sharpedo thingy).

    2. Thanks for noticing the "chance to kill people". I meant "chance to hax people".

    3. Thanks for reminding me about the Kecleon thing. I knew it didn't look quite right.

    4. You're right, they are very similar, but they are still different. I wasn't sure how to make them too much more different without being imbalanced. Note things such as Groudon has higher priority than Kyogre and ignores distracts, kyogre can distract. Milotic has 1.5 votes, Trapinch has 0 votes and a -1 voteshield (these two are a little imbalanced, but I was making up for Claydol pretty much outclassing Relicanth, even with the 30% false chance. Bottom line, I would make them more different if I got suggestions that wouldn't imbalance them.

    5. Addressed above to Angel

    6. I like this idea.

    7. Free will? That's just a random idea :biggrin:

    8. Shiny Rayquaza is basically a rayquaza2 who appears in large games, 12+. I really think that number should be higher, maybe 16+, but I don't know. What do you think?

    9. Both Rayquazas do not appear in large games.

    I remember than Hoenn theme. It was fun, but as you said it needed major balancing because village always won. I feel this is a lot different, as it isn't village vs mafias, but two warring factions recruiting from a third with a fourth trying to kill everyone and a fifth being a traitorous troll (kecleon).

    Started fixing the Kecleon thing but I have to go now, so that'll wait. I fixed the kill/hax error in the description of Grunts. 2 things: Should I add a changelog, even though this isn't Mafia Review? Any suggestions for names for the theme? And if someone from QC sees this, can you tell if you'd accept or reject it in Mafia Review, and if reject, why?
     
  6. -Mike-

    -Mike- hi

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    I think Nonpeak = 3/4 - 12, never seen a max 20 Non-peak.

    and I meant Rayquaza too OP for smaller games, and it is nonpeak (As you are saying), so it would have small number of players
     
  7. Rainbow Crash

    Rainbow Crash Member

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    Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you noticed that in games of less than 12 players, Rayquaza only has daykill and night inspect, whereas in 12+ it gets more voting power, -0.5 voteshield and night kill. Correct me if I'm wrong. Daykill and inspect seems fine in small games to me since it has no allies (unless Kecleon)
     
  8. Scatterbrain

    Scatterbrain You only live once*

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    You're on track, peak usually kicks off at 14+. Though, you can't get the same answer from everybody. 11-13 is a good cap, though.

    Daykills for some reason are frowned upon in smaller games unless used sparingly. Try giving it a recharge instead? or like 1 or 2 charges in the daykill
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2013
  9. Rainbow Crash

    Rainbow Crash Member

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    Well, it is used sparingly (only 1 role has it) but I still see your point. Maybe I'll make a Ray for games of less than six players that has only 1 use on its daykill, and a nightkill with 1 cooldown? Also, I really don't know about peak or nonpeak stuff. I just know that I'm supposed to have more than 40 roles, and that I plan on adding more roles.
     
  10. Sky Sentinel

    Sky Sentinel You see?

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    I'm not really liking the flavor of this theme to be quite honest, like the help messages are kinda out there
     
  11. Rainbow Crash

    Rainbow Crash Member

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    Hmm, looking back you're kind of right. I was going at several internet jokes with some of those, and I probably shouldn't have. It does look a little over the top. Is it just the flavor you dislike? That's easily fixed. Also, I had an idea: Red Orb, Green Orb, and Jade Orb. Groudon/Kyogre/Rayquaza cannot be killed directly but if their Orb dies, then they die. The problem with this is it sounds like kind of a boring role for whoever is Orb. Also, I'm coding Sharpedo and Blaziken right now.