The classic theme has been unbalanced for quite some time. In this update, I will be going over the changes that I made and why. Old things that didn't change will get their own separate section on the bottom, but for now, here's the new and improved Default! Since most of us know this theme however, in the roles section, I will just list their actions since I did not change the descriptions. If anything the bottom is simply for organization. Code: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Aa3aqM7A NEW ROLES! Spoiler Bulletproof Werewolf: This massive puppy is the new teammate for the once scrawny Werewolf. The boost that he has over his brother is that he cannot be nightkilled. This improves the Werewolf's chances for great games greatly, plus wolves usually travel in packs so thus this made sense. He retains the following actions from Werewolf: Kills distractors, cannot be haxed, has a priority of 10. He gains the following action: Cannot be nightkilled. The following action has been added to his side: Shared nightkill. Godfather's Votebomb: A rather simple role at first, this little guy gets the village on edge. If voted for, the first and last person to do so will be killed off with him. This makes the Insp a little bit more wary to rand before he does so. If he happens to survive past the Godfather however, he will gain a nightkill with the same priority. Summary: Kills off first and last person that voted him, gains a vote when the Godfather is gone. Other Buffs The Don Italian Mafia and Don Russian Mafia can no longer be haxed. The mafia as a whole has gotten moved up in the spawn list, thus increasing pressure on the previously powerful village. In roles1, the Mafia in Slot 8 and Villager in Slot 7 have been switched. The Conspirator's voteshield of +99 has been removed The conspirator may now also win with the Werewolf team. The Conspirator spawns where the second Pretty Lady was, the second Pretty Lady replacing the second Mayor. Two villagers have been removed from the early spawn list in roles2, making the cap of this theme now 39.[/spoiler] Old Info/Sides Village Spoiler Villager: Gets one vote... that's about it lol. Mayor: Gets two votes. Bodyguard: Can protect one person at night. Priority of 5. Inspector: Can inspect one person at night. Priority of 30. Pretty Lady: Can distract one person at night. Priority of 1. Vigilante: Can kill one person at night. Priority of 19. Samurai: Can kill one person during the day (reveals). Miller1: Inspects as Russian Mafia. Miller2: Inspects as Italian Mafia. TrueMiller: Inspects as Mafia. Spy: May receive hax on actions during the night. Bomb: Can kill anyone who kills them in the night. French Canadian Mafia/Italian Mafia (They do the exact same thing so w/e) Spoiler French Canadian/Italian Mafia: Can kill one person at night. French Canadian has a priority of 12, Italian has a priority of 11. Don French Canadian/Italian Mafia: Can kill one person at night. Cannot be distracted or haxed. French Canadian has a priority of 12, Italian has a priority of 11 Godfather Spoiler Godfather: Can kill 2 people at night. Cannot be haxed. Kills distractors. Has a priority of 20. Godfather's Votebomb (Unconverted): Removes the first and last person who votes him out. Godfather's Votebomb (Converted): Has a nightkill with a priority of 20. Removes the first and last person who votes him out. Werewolf Spoiler Werewolf: Can kill one person at night with a priority of 10. Cannot be haxed. Kills distractors. Bulletproof Werewolf: Can kill one person at night with a priority of 10. Cannot be haxed or nightkilled. Kills distractors. Conspirator Spoiler Conspirator: Wins with everyone. Priority Spoiler [1] Pretty Lady (Distract) [5] Bodyguard (Protect) [10] Bulletproof Werewolf (Kill) [10] WereWolf (Kill) [11] Mafia (Kill) [11] Italian Mafia (Kill) [11] Don Italian Mafia (Kill) [12] French Canadian Mafia (Kill) [12] Don French Canadian Mafia (Kill) [19] Vigilante (Kill) [20] Godfather (Kill) [20] Godfather's Votebomb (Kill) [30] Inspector (Inspect) Spawn List roles1 (for 1-11 players) Spoiler Bodyguard (bodyguard) Mafia (mafia) Inspector (inspector) Werewolf (werewolf) Pretty Lady (pl) Villager (villager) Millager (truemiller) Mafia (mafia) Villager (villager) Villager (villager) Mayor (mayor) roles2 (for 12-36 people) Spoiler Bodyguard (bodyguard) Russian Mafia (mafia1) Russian Mafia (mafia1) Inspector (inspector) Pretty Lady (pl) Villager (villager) Italian Mafia (mafia2) Italian Mafia (mafia2) Villager (villager) Mayor (mayor) Spy (spy) Russian Millager (miller1) Italian Millager (miller2) Villager (villager) Vigilante (vigilante) Werewolf (werewolf) Godfather (godfather) Don Russian Mafia (mafiaboss1) Don Italian Mafia (mafiaboss2) Samurai (samurai) Bulletproof Werewolf (bpwerewolf) Villager (villager) Godfather's Votebomb (vbombgodfather) Russian Mafia (mafia1) Italian Mafia (mafia2) Bodyguard (bodyguard) Villager (villager) Pretty Lady (pl) Conspirator (consp) Russian Mafia (mafia1) Italian Mafia (mafia2) Spy (spy) Villager (villager) Werewolf (werewolf) Vigilante (vigilante) Villager (villager) Villager (villager)
I don't like the change from the French Canadian Mafia to the Russian Mafia. It's an unnecessary flavour change which will catch people off guard - hey, if we have mafia about fruit, what's so bad about having a French mafia? Unhaxable Dons are fine. What isn't fine is that one of them spawns so far later than the other - I'd say make the spawn so that if WW spawns it gets a partner, or not at all. A votebomb, which hasn't appeared in any theme before, isn't exactly a role suited for default. I don't particularly mind the Werewolf's new partner but I think the actual mafia term is Strongarm, so if we want to call if Werewolf Strongarm it might make more sense to people. (or is it Bulletproof? w/e) There's a reason why the mafia community as a whole couldn't find a way to balance default in a way that people like (that, and the fact that the effort died due to a few of the leaders going inactive).
Your comments have been noted and will be applied as I see fit ASAP. EDIT: I'll just go by points as I see fit. FCM v Russian: All it is is a text change. How would that throw people off? It'd be quick to adjust you and is more accurate to the real-life mafia you have to fear. Spawn: I shifted around stuff around the 15-20 slots. Votebomb: I see default as a tutorial theme for new players, thus the simple style of the theme. Why not include a brand new role that'll both help the Godfather and get people adjusted to more ideas? Bulletproof Werewolf: This I do agree with you on and the name has been changed. Balance issue reason: I'm not going to be inactive any time soon and saying as the below is the win stats for the current default, I'm going to be putting in the effort. (18:12:06) Theme Played: 166 times (18:12:06) 1: Village. Times Won: 102. Average Players per win: 7.89 (18:12:06) 2: Mafia. Times Won: 31. Average Players per win: 7.06 (18:12:06) 3: WereWolf. Times Won: 28. Average Players per win: 6.14 (18:12:06) 4: Italian Mafia. Times Won: 4. Average Players per win: 13.75 (18:12:06) 5: French Canadian Mafia. Times Won: 1. Average Players per win: 14 Sure Mafia and WW are buffed by small games, but this is pretty atrocious.
What exactly are the balance problems you are trying to fix? I know Default's balance is poor, but the changes you made doesn't seem to look for what makes the theme unbalanced. Instead, it looks like you are randomly buffing the Mafia under the assumption that "Village is too strong" and any kind of buff will be enough. I'm not saying "those changes won't work", just that I can't see what exactly you are trying to fix. By that logic, Default would need to have poisoners, exposers, converters, delayed lynch, etc, etc, etc. If default is a tutorial theme, it should focus on the basics of the game and leave the "more advanced" stuff for other themes.
I'm basically trying to reduce the power of the village while increasing the power of the mafia so everyone is even. So, saying that I'm randomly buffing would be partially correct. And as for the votebomb, I probably could have came up with better reasoning. I'm simply trying to have the Votebomb be like a Godfather of sorts, but not a second Godfather during the night as that'd be too strong. With it how it is it should help the village slightly if it is killed at night, which will help out against the (admittedly) large Mafia boost I gave.
or maybe have the godfather be a votebomb in itself if you really must use it? adding a teammate to the actual godfather is just ugh... and Mega Werewolf is a horrible name. Also, no to mafia name change.
I already changed Mega but OK yeesh, they can be French Canadians again. And Sky Sentinel the Votebomb was to power up the side without making a role OP. EDIT: Some other critiques would be nice since I'm trying to balance this out.
Decline [1] Not sure if you'd decline this or not since it's a version of default... but it doesn't fix anything, it also over-complicates the theme.
What I'm gonna try doing is scrapping the current roles2 spawn list entirely and starting it over from scratch, see how that works. I could maybe work out the BP WW and GF's VB to be less complicated, but I wanted to use a common substance of themes while working a new concept into a theme.
(20:30:10) 1: Village. Times Won: 121. Average Players per win: 7.83 (20:30:10) 2: Mafia. Times Won: 37. Average Players per win: 6.97 (20:30:10) 3: WereWolf. Times Won: 33. Average Players per win: 6.21 (20:30:10) 4: Italian Mafia. Times Won: 5. Average Players per win: 13.4 (20:30:10) 5: French Canadian Mafia. Times Won: 2. Average Players per win: 13.5 While I'm not exactly fond of these updates, I suppose none of you have any better ideas, now do you? We can't even agree on an update for default. We should be spending more time getting people to play Mafia (advertising and stuff) than constantly worrying about balancing Default and other themes.
My focus is gonna be on a new theme, which I'm going to post either in the next few hours or tomorrow. I'll still keep an eye on this though.
Might as well go ahead on that new theme, cause I'm going to have to Decline [2] this... you just added a person to two sides instead of buffing the roles individually, which was especially not the goal with the Godfather. Godfather is also a lesser concern than the actual mafia... which is still weak and not helped too much.
Seeing that you posted in the big Balancing Default thread I'm sure you're aware we tried to do this as a community and failed - I would not leave the changing of THE default theme of mafia to one person, I'd have at least some part of the mafia staff working on it (my personal opinion is to try the community thing again, some time after the TCC maybe). More on topic, I think just changing Godfather to inspect as Villager would be great for his survivability (yes I'm aware vigilante can always shoot him, but that's the problem with all lone roles isn't it?). I am simply fine with putting in three Werewolves in when it reaches bigger games (two at least to start off big games) and maybe have a Don Werewolf (don't call it that lol) to keep this mafia side parallel with the IM and FCM. So that said, giving the Godfather a complicated role in default and a bulletproof Werewolf (still liable to be inspected or daykilled) is not the way to go about it and as was side before the actual mafias aren't buffed enough (earlier role spawning does not do enough, the same tactics of inspector claiming and PL possibly neutralizing them early on are still valid). Decline [3].
I did -- no one can agree on what to do. Default isn't even that played anymore (despite it being top 6). If you want something to do, make the FCM and IM spawn in small games instead of regular Mafia and have both Mafias identify PLs. It would make it a little more interesting in getting PL out
I pretty much agree with everything Windblown said. Besides, in order to change a theme you don't simply make a new thread and take it to Review. If anything you should have consulted the mafia sMAs instead of taking upon yourself the task of changing default. I appreciate your concern but this isn't the way to fix it. I'm throwing Decline [4] but I don't really think I should be bothering since this thread shouldn't be here to begin with.
Notice that I mentioned the sMAs (aka Fuzzy and Beast), not the MAs. The Decline is staying, and the same about my opinion that Default is not a regular theme that should be taken by just one person to be fixed.