Little Cup XY Discussion Hi, welcome to XY's LC subforum. New mon, new mechanics, new meta. This thread will serve as a general discussing thread for XY LC throughout the gen. For casual discourse (if you want specific in depth discourse about a Pokémon, strategy or whatever, make a thread about it). This can also serve as a potential suspects thread once things are up and running. Useful things: Sets thread Cores thread Teams thread Banned Pokémon, Items and Moves: Tangela, Scyther, Sneasel, Dragon Rage, Sonic Boom, Gligar, Yanma, Swagger, Swirlix Past Suspects: November 10th to 20th 2013 - Gligar - Result: Ban December 1st to 12th 2013 - Yanma - Result: Ban March 14th to March 29th 2014 - Swirlix and Berry Juice retest - Result: Ban and Unban respectively Credit for sprites to pkparaiso.com
I see a lot of good mons, but one that stands out for me is Helioptile. Then again, I am a LC heretic, so I may be wrong. Also, Eviolite Bergmite.
Eviolite bergmite gets rapid spin doesn't it?? Could be awesome as a rapid spinner in LC as an alternative to staryu/dril as a defensive option. Also Tyrunt decent offensive dragon might be nice for LC with average speed like the rest tho. Paired with drilbur could work in the sand.
So there is finally a definite Clamperl counter (unless like hp ghost or something), can't hit honedge so that's nice! :) Also Pancham looks too strong! :O
Some opinions on stuff: Spoiler Goomy with that Sp Def :ODefensive stuff sucks LC for the most part, but I see a good rest + rain dance eviolite set with Dragon Pulse and a water move or something. It has decent special to hit off of, so sounds useable to me. Honedge seems like it wont be that good here. Missy will destroy it :( BERGIMITE HAS 162 DEF :O Physical wall to end all physical walls right there, to bad we only get 5 turn hail and ice sucks as a defensive typing. Helioptile speed ties Yanama and OHKOs. Seems legit. Skrelp seems like its going to be a good special wall. We may see some Psy Shock Abras because of it. Specially defensive Eviolite Phantump may be able to beat Misdreavus depending on its moves and stuff. Binacle has great mixed defenses, but horrible defensive typing. Overall I see more defensive potential in X/Y than offensive. We have a Pokémon with a defensive stat so high it could tank a Zekrom's Bolt Strike. Can't wait to see what Amaura's base stats are. @Pokémon United: Clamperl OHKOs Honedge with surf :/
Some pokes look interesting (Pancham, Heliptile (high speed and SAtk), Noibat (same), Binacle (great stats!!), Clauncher (good SAtk), Tyrunt (good Atk), Honedge ofc (look at that Def lol))!! I think Skrelp could do well vs Clamperl with that good SDef 252 +2 SpAtk Deepseatooth Clamperl Hidden Power Grass vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Eviolite Skrelp: 66,67% - 80,95% (please notice the lack of evs)
i'm pretty sure a lot of these stats are inaccurate but hey (like 100% honedge's speed is much higher than 10 lol) i'm excited for all the new speedy mons like Espurr, Helioptile, Noibat, Litleo. and GOOMY. is so gonna be legit. i'll find a way. and Honedge means there's gonna be another legit ghost :3
I'm pretty sure these are fake btw, since they are just the final evos -20 in each stat :> Anyway, i'm p excited fr XY and all its toys. Pokemon like Helioptile, trex, goomy, boom bird etc. all look cool. I do feel however these pokes are either too slow or too weak to be stupidly good. With new abilities and items (meh) it should be shaking LC up a bit. Have fun you all :D
http://pastebin.com/09WNd7Lv Hi, this is an updated and almost good as it gets list according to the man who gave it to me: BR
Well... everything got significantly worse. I see some potential in Noibat, Skrelp, and maybe Bergmite. Pumpkaboo is pretty interesting with the different sizes with different BSTs. With these new stats, I think Missy will be insanely over powered in the LC meta, we just have to wait and see. Poor Goomy :( I wish you were at least as good as Dratini.
Imo with its now absent Dark weakness and STAB and dragon immune. Missy will be considerably op. Bermite tanks CB Terrakion's CC with Evio. It should end up somewhat usable with Rapid Spin.
I can see Skrelp being used even in NEU/NU, as it has nice defenses and can use Eviolite to boot. Poison/Water isn't too bad a typing, too. His HP is nothing special. Overall, his stats are much more appealing compared to his counterpart Clauncher. Bergmite's defense is so high :< and with Rapid Spin, it'll probably be used quite a lot as a physical wall. Its pure-ice typing hinders it a lot, though. The only other three-digit number I can spot besides Skrelp's Special Defense and Bergmite's epic Defense is Phantump having a 100 attack (!) and quite meh other stats as well as Honedge who looks to be quite the physical wall (100 def), along with its type.
Using T Wave Amaura yessssssssssss Looks like a couple of neat RP sweepers (Tyrunt, Binacle) but meh Mach Punch weakness :c. SD Froakie (Idk, does it get it?) With dat Water Shuriken is sure to be pretty cool. Besides that, having a cute Dragon to spam D Meteor with in LC will be fun (Hi Noibat). All in all, ban Missy pls. Edit: Just remembered that males can pass on dream world abilities (even if the mom is Ditto!) So you know what that means? . . . . Hustle Rufflet Archerknight's redemption.
new move sticky web. if spinarak gets it i could see it getting some use. for those of you who don't know sticky web is a move ariados and shuckle are known to have that is an entry hazard that reduces speed by one stage. doesn't affect flying types. not as good in lc as other tiers but still
Tbh Sticky Web sounds better in LC than in other tiers, also i think maybe Joltik will learn it (with maybe I mean that if it doesn't it's a shame!!) Anyway in LC SSers will be able of outspeeding everything with 11 Spd since opponent's Scarfers will have their Speed reduced to like max 20 (it seems like there will be exceptions like Flying (punished hard by SR) Levitating pokes, or Idk Inkay (lol)) What I mean is that in LC max unboosted Speed is 20 and if you manage to set that hazard your opponent won't outspeed you after most pokes set up (even if you give a poke with 14 Spd a Scarf it's done) excluding the category I called above EDIT: In another thread on this forum I heard Ariados gets Sticky Web at level 58 so I think Spinarak will get this 100%, let's just wait for Joltik (not a bad poke at all and easily better than Spinarak!)
awesome to hear of a different new type of hazard. Potential for this gen to get even more insane-speed focussed, with sticky web as well as megas etc. but it may not be the case if offensive trick room becomes more common in all tiers, which I see as possible. Sorry to diverge from LC for a second. Would be cool to see spinarak earn some use ^_^
Sticky Web will make people focus (even) more on priorities (they are already widely used though) than on Spd since as I said you can Scarf all the pokes you want but you will never go past 30 (at least with the pokes I think will end for being allowed) Teddiursa would really like Sticky Web!! No set up, no Choice item, strong STAB!!!
sorry i didn't really explain why i thought sticky web wouldnt be as big in lc... the thing with sticky web is that most of the top pokemon don't give a f*ck. lol yanma and missy are immune (and bronzer). and timburr is already slow and has priority. chinchou doesn't need much speed unless its the scarf set. polygon and lickitung are slow anyway. also if mukrow is retested it will also be immune. staryu and drilburr are affected but will be as important as ever because its needed to spin. Noibat will also probably be rather impressive and will be immune. that said i still think that this ability will be great for a lc team however i believe in tiers such as ou it will have a bigger effect due to wider distribution and more diversity.
Latest Base Stats, significant changes here. Noibat is now bad, Bergmite's def is gone, the seahorse lost its impressive luster too. Chespin (Grass) Overgrow / Bulletproof 56 / 61 / 65 / 48 / 45 / 38 Fennekin (Fire) Blaze / Magician 40 / 45 / 40 / 62 / 60 / 60 Froakie (Water) Torrent / Protean 41 / 56 / 40 / 62 / 44 / 71 Skiddo (Grass) Sap Sipper / Grass Pelt 66 / 65 / 48 / 62 / 57 / 52 Bunnelby (Normal) Pickup / Cheek Pouch / Huge Power 38 / 36 / 38 / 32 / 36 / 57 Fletchling (Normal|Flying) Big Pecks / Gale Wings 45 / 50 / 43 / 40 / 38 / 62 Scatterbug (Bug) Shield Dust / Compoundeyes / Friend Guard 38 / 35 / 40 / 27 / 25 / 35 Litleo (Fire|Normal) Rivalry / Unnerve / Moxie 62 / 50 / 58 / 73 / 54 / 72 Flabébé (Fairy) Flower Veil / Symbiosis 44 / 38 / 39 / 61 / 79 / 42 Pancham (Fighting) Iron Fist / Mold Breaker/ Scrappy 67 / 82 / 62 / 46 / 48 / 43 Espurr (Psychic) Keen Eye / Infiltrator / Own Tempo 62 / 48 / 54 / 63 / 60 / 68 Honedge (Steel|Ghost) No Guard 45 / 80 / 100 / 35 / 37 / 28 Spritzee (Fairy) Healer / Aroma Veil 78 / 52 / 60 / 63 / 65 / 23 Swirlix (Fairy) Sweet Veil / Unburden 62 / 48 / 66 / 59 / 57 / 49 Inkay (Dark|Psychic) Contrary / Suction Cups / Infiltrator 53 / 54 / 53 / 37 / 46 / 45 Binacle (Rock|Water) Tough Claws / Sniper / Pickpocket 42 / 52 / 67 / 39 / 56 / 50 Skrelp (Poison|Water) Poison Point / Poison Touch 50 / 60 / 60 / 60 / 60 / 30 Clauncher (Water) Mega Launcher 50 / 53 / 62 / 58 / 63 / 44 Helioptile (Electric|Normal) Dry Skin / Sand Veil / Solar Power 44 / 38 / 33 / 61 / 43 / 70 Tyrunt (Rock|Dragon) Strong Jaw 58 / 89 / 77 / 45 / 45 / 48 Amaura (Rock|Ice) Refrigerate / Snow Warning 77 / 59 / 50 / 67 / 63 / 46 Goomy (Dragon) Sap Sipper / Hydration / Gooey 45 / 50 / 35 / 55 / 75 / 40 Phantump (Ghost|Grass) Natural Cure / Frisk / Harvest 43 / 70 / 48 / 50 / 60 / 38 Pumpkaboo-Small (Ghost|Grass) Pickup / Frisk / Insomnia 44 / 66 / 70 / 44 / 55 / 56 Pumpkaboo-Average (Ghost|Grass) Pickup / Frisk / Insomnia 49 / 66 / 70 / 44 / 55 / 51 Pumpkaboo-Large (Ghost|Grass) Pickup / Frisk / Insomnia 54 / 66 / 70 / 44 / 55 / 46 Pumpkaboo-Super (Ghost|Grass) Pickup / Frisk / Insomnia 56 / 66 / 70 / 44 / 55 / 41 Bergmite (Ice) Own Tempo / Ice Body / Sturdy 55 / 69 / 85 / 32 / 35 / 28 Noibat (Flying|Dragon) Frisk / Infiltrator / Telepathy 40 / 30 / 35 / 45 / 40 / 55
Wow now almost all these pokes look outclassed Honedge will still be unique though, Litleo, Pancham, Fletchling and Bunnelby could be useful but I fear they will be just outclassed
Bergmite still ain't bad. Hail could work with snover + aurorus + whatever else hail needs. 2 setters of weather in a tier where there's no other weather setters is certainly a boon for it.
There are Hippopotas and Vulpix since I doubt they will be banned without being tested Anyway Amaura's typing is really bad, Snover has a bad typing too but at least it resists Water, Grass, Ground and Electric, while Amaura resists only Flying, Ice, Poison and Normal (not as common as Snover's resistances) Having 2 inducers in a tier without other weathers wouldn't be that cool anyway, though new weather mechanics could matter
I agree that almost everything here is outclassed. Also our initial banlist stands at: Scyther, Berry Juice, Tangela, Sonicboom, Dragon Rage. Along with all the clauses. Vulpix is dropped purely because of weather nerfs. Sneasel because of new fairies and various other changes that might change its status. Can always be banned if it turns out stupid again.
I don't think these new stats are correct. From experience in game Bergmite definitely has more than 85 def. Lv 40 no EVs and a neutral nature with 81 def. It is possible if I got lucky and have ~30 IVs in defense but highly unlikely.
Actually a level 40 Bergmite with 81 Def could have 20, 21 or 22 Def IVs, but that doesn't really mean anything. Anyways, you need more than the stat of one level 40 Pokemon to claim the stats are inaccurate.
Meh. I must have done the calc wrong. The base stats seem really low compared to a lot of previous gen's Pokémon, so it looked a bit fishy to me.
Great banlist Imo (Gligar allowed?) I totally forgot the weather got nerfed >.> EDIT: Just some thoughts: I don't think LC will change as much as other metas, Megas won't affect it and LC fairies look bad (maybe there are some old pokes getting retyped and Idk) also Dragons weren't a big problem in LC Now it seems like sound moves bypass Substitute and this makes me think Yanma will be even stronger since it can strike through it!! The weather nerf makes me hope Hippo and Vulpix won't be banned, 5 turns isn't that much (it sounds like a sort of TR) and while Hippo can come in a lot of times Vulpix is weak to SR so... Stall will be even harder to pull EDIT2: ^ It could be totally wrong but it's just what I thought
Depending on their movepools, Mime Jr. will probably be the best of the LC fairies. A decent 70 SAtk and 60 Speed puts it at 16/16. Mime Jr. also gets Technician, which will now work perfectly with Hidden Power, effectively giving it a 90 power move of any type. Of course, if it gets Moonblast it's better off using that instead of HP Fairy. As for coverage, it can use Icy Wind + Thunderbolt/Shock Wave for BoltBeam alongside Psychic and a Fairy move. If it gets Moonblast better off using HP Ice. Also gets Nasty Plot and Calm Mind, allowing for set up potential, though its defenses aren't the best.
I can't see how things like Knock Off Sneasel, Gligar and Meditite are going to be ever stay in LC and be balanced however the initial banlist is more a service to LC people. So we can use things that have previously been ubers and just have fun with things that are stronger than the average LC pokemon. It also stops people theorymonning later that X would in fact not be broken.
I'm surprised protean froakie isn't being viewed of as more of a threat. although slow it gets "stab" on everything with usable offenses. ill definitely be giving it a try.
The only 2 pokes that i can see being really impactful in the 6th gen lc metagame from gen 6 are honedge and spritzee. These 2 pokes check fighting types very well and spritzee is especially tough due to the fact that it will do very well against voltturn teams due to it's surprisingly good bulk and being a fairy type. Honedge is very good, being able to pull off a late game sweep with sd and shadow sneak using the eviolite and base 100 defense and base 80 attack. Both of these are gonna be very good imo but i am not sure about the rest. I can see others like tyrunt, amura, and phantump all being good, but not having much of an impact as honedge and spritzee will have.
i can see Swirlix pulling off a pretty cool Unburden sweeper set with CM Moon Blast and Flamethrower, Phantump and Pumpkaboo might mean we finally have more than 1 spinblocker worth using. Amaura getting Snow Warning is interesting but I imagine Snover is generally better for it. Vulpix might actually be around in LC... that's a scary thought. Skrelp will be a neat TSpiker, Helioptile will be quite neat probably, GOOMY will be legit because it's Goomy, also good bulk and pure dragon typing is neat as well as useful grass immunity or Gooey. Bergmite has Bite and Recover so it will be usable as a spinner. Tough Claws Bulky SD Binacle could probably do decent, Pancham could probably be annoying with Parting Shot. BU Skiddo sounds cool with its recovery options, Litleo could be an interesting scarfer or something. Chespin is a new check/counter to Misdreavus that isn't weak to the already nerfed HP Fighting as well as having cool set up and coverage options. Protean Froakie will be overrated for a while but Torrent Froakie will have good coverage. A CM Wish set from Flabébé could be cool. I think most of the XY Babies have something neat to offer even if it's not immediately obvious, I think they will come to shape the meta in unexpected ways. Except Noibat. That shit's like Combee. :[
Huge Power Bunnelby tho, it gets Quick Attack right? Gonna be baller. Also... How are we going to kill Porygon on the special side now :c?
Fletching, Froakie, Phantump & Honedge are looking like the biggest new additions to me. Fletching with a Swords Dance, Flying Gem Acro set as both a revenge killer and late game sweeper. Froakie gets STAB on everything and decent enough stats. Phantump can abuse Harvest with infinite Oran Berries along with cool typing. Honedge merely has good typing and stats.