[Skeleton] Venomoth

Discussion in 'Gen 5 LU Analyses' started by Celestial Phantom, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    [​IMG]

    ==General==
    -Above average Special Attack and Speed
    -Average stats, but great offensive and defensive typing
    -Access to support moves like Quiver Dance, Baton Pass, Toxic Spikes, and Roost
    -2 great defensive abilities, and 1 great offensive one
    -Good special movepool

    ==Sets==

    ===QuiverPass===
    {{set|name=QuiverPass
    |pkmn=Venomoth
    |nature=Timid
    |item=Black Sludge |item2=Focus Sash
    |ability=Wonder Skin
    |ev=248 HP/8 Sp. Att/252 Spe
    |move1=Sleep Powder
    |move2=Quiver Dance
    |move3=Baton Pass
    |move4=Bug Buzz |move41=Substitute}}

    -Standard and dangerous set up passer
    -Pass to special attacking receivers like Sigilyph, Magneton, Magmortar, Rotom, Rotom-C, Lanturn
    -Bug Buzz keeps it from being taunt bait
    -Substitute allows for further ability to set up other sweepers
    -Set up is stopped by phazers when it tries to pass, or by dragon tail
    -Sash is to ensure a quiver set up, and attempt to pass

    ===SubDisable===
    {{set|name=Subdisable
    |pkmn=Venomoth
    |nature=Timid
    |item=Black Sludge
    |ability=Wonder Skin
    |ev=4 Def/252 Sp.Att/252 Spe
    |move1=Substitute
    |move2=Disable
    |move3=Bug Buzz
    |move4=Hidden Power Ground}}

    -SubDisable is a way to neutralize Choice users into having to switch while maintaining the ability to attack
    -Bug Buzz is for STAB and overall coverage
    -HP Ground is for steel, fire, rock, and poison types that resist bug buzz
    -Non choice users who are able to break Venomoth's sub handle the set with some ease

    ===Special Attacker===
    {{set|name=Attacker
    |pkmn=Venomoth
    |nature=Timid
    |item=Black Sludge |item2=Life Orb
    |ability=Wonder Skin |ability2=Tinted Lens
    |ev=4 Def/252 Sp.Att/252 Spe
    |move1=Quiver Dance
    |move2=Bug Buzz
    |move3=Hidden Power Ground
    |move4=Psychic |move2=Roost}}

    -Focusing on Venomoth's ability to attack
    -Hits like a truck after a few quiver's
    -HP Ground for Steel, Fire, Rock, Poison coverage
    -Psychic hits fighting and flying types
    -Tinted Lens powers up the attacks if they aren't very effective
    -Black Sludge for consistent HP recovery on the Quiver + 3 attacks
    -Roost can be used to recover damage
    -Life Orb increases it's sweeping potential

    ==Other Options==
    -Tailwind
    -Stun Spore
    -Giga Drain for offensive recovery
    -Toxic Spikes
    -U-turn for momentum

    ==Checks and Counters==
    -Druddigon, Aerodactyl, Poliwrath
    -Sleep Talk users
    -Escavalier, Aggron, Steelix, Durant
    -Magmortar, Electivire, Primeape
    -Cryogonal
    -Ghosts like Dusknoir, Dusclops, Mismagius
    -Sound Proof users
    -Taunt users (when they can hit)
    -Bouffalant and Miltank


    There's probably more I can add, but I'd rather opinions now, as I don't have a lot of experience with Venomoth, and a different view would be beneficial. Only thing I'd really like the opinion on the SubDisable set as I've never used that one really, so a 4th move option and EVs are foreign to me.
     
  2. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Alfalfa
    The only viable Soundproof user in LU is Mr. Mime, who is only viable on Baton Pass teams.


    On the SubDisable set, Venomoth really does not need Wonder Skin, as it already has Substitute. Tinted Lens is more useful. Considering that, the set should look like this:

    {{set
    |name=Subdisable
    |pkmn=Venomoth
    |nature=Timid
    |item=Black Sludge
    |ability=Tinted Lens
    |ev=248 HP/8 Sp.Att/252 Spe
    |move1=Substitute
    |move2=Disable
    |move3=Bug Buzz
    |move4=Quiver Dance}}

    That set makes better use of Substitute + Disable than Wonder Skin would.
     
  3. Celestial Phantom

    Celestial Phantom YAHA

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    Roar has an accuracy. Wonder Skin blocks status category moves with any accuracy to have 50% accuracy, so it's basically preventing them from phazing you while you set up. Tinted Lens is alright, but stopping phazers is a huge deal as they would be forced to run dragon tail to hit you. I'll give you quiver, wasn't sure on the 4th because anything wouldn't let you just set up a sub with quiver's mostly. At least any good player won't let you.

    Also, Abomasnow has sound proof as well, thus that's 2 pokemon that can completely block any attempt of it attacking them if it has to go one on one with them. It's a last a last leg kind of thing, but they are capable of stopping it as the only attack it ever really runs is bug buzz unless it's an actual special attacker set which isn't too often, because quiverpass is just a great momentum shift. The point to having checks and counters is to list the full things that can actually stop it and have a form of use in the tier. Mr. Mime is capable of it for baton pass teams, while Abomasnow while very poor against the amount of physical attackers could find some niche on a team if you actually cared to build around one.
     
  4. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    Aside from Steelix, Hariyama, and Drapion (the latter of which is really bad), I cannot see any viable phazer that Venomoth cannot beat by running Tinted Lens over Wonder Skin. Steelix is more meant to counter physical attackers - tanking Special Attacks is not its forte, except against Galvantula. Specially Defensive Hariyama gets worn down by Venomoth easily, and has to use Rest prematurely.
     
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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