[BW2] One last rat race (Discussion of a possible ladder reset)

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Ubers' started by BLUFF GOD, Aug 16, 2013.

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  1. BLUFF GOD

    BLUFF GOD eat an apple day sed,,

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    Right I know a lot of you don't take me seriously because I give 'no fux' when normally posting on forums but this is a serious topic etc, so just hear me out;

    Following up the last reset of the Ubers ladder (June 28th, 2012) a few members of the Ubers community and I (A few listed names below) have come to the conclusion that the ladder needs to be reset one more time before the start of Generation 6 to fit the current stage of the meta as it has changed over the period of a year, the last reset being after the important entry of Lati/Lugia/Ho-oh had a better and more understandable reset but I believe we need to have a clean slate for a few months before the introduction of generation 6 to give people more of a chance to participate in a possibly more active metagame. As It's been over a year since the last reset a lot of new players have come through and started to prove themselves I feel that it would be fun to start a new clean slate for a few months as a 'incentive' to keep the community more active and getting people ready and semi prepared for Generation 6.

    Looking at the current ladder, I can tell you right now that the top page is littered with 'non legit scores' the points not showing the actual skill level/legitimacy that they should in a public leader board. I myself am not pointing any fingers but people who actually have knowledge and have played the ladder for as long as we have (these people being named below) know that people have been breaking the rules. I'll repeat this isn't out of 'spite' towards these players but I simply just believe that if we were to go through a reset it will get people more inclined to start playing again keeping the top part of the ladder more active and if these peoples scores were legit they would obviously have no problem getting that high again on a more active ladder with less 'clan members so high up'.

    I know I've not made any really valid and argument changing points but its my and the opinions of the players listened below. I'll happily reply to any questions you may have or that you'd like to be answered. I feel like opinions of a larger group of the community over just one 'clan/side' are more beneficial for the whole of PO, especially with the non biased point of views the more relevant members of the community have explained to me.

    With support and backing I currently have from users (I'll add more names over time);
    -Manaphy-
    Bryce Loski
    Karppu
    Blimlax
    ModestG
    Msyu
    Smart Kid
    Leon
    CasedVictory
    Bugzinator
    Liked
    New Breed
    Finchinator
    Michael
    Luck>Skill
    Rematch
    PokeaimMD
    mibuchiha
    Lelouch V
    yagura
    puregenius

    Thanks for your time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  2. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    In my opinion the ladder needs to be reset not only because it's nearly impossible to peak 1770 legitimately (It's quite obvious the guy is boosting) but because new players that want to get into the tier find themselves trapped in the struggle that maybe they will never be able to get high on the ladder since most of the matches are luck based and not only that, I know people that stopped laddering in Ubers because they think the current meta is retarded and therefor they have no motivation whatsoever for laddering 2 da top like they used to a year ago. This is offputting for players.

    Not saying this justifies the need for the ladder to be reset but it's my reasoning for giving other people a chance to get top spots without dealing with all this stuff I mentioned in the last paragraph and it's also an invitation for other newcomers to start playing the tier or trying to get better at it knowing they won't deal with this stuff as much as we did for the past year lol.

    reset ladder y/y
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  3. BLUFF GOD

    BLUFF GOD eat an apple day sed,,

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    Lets keep the topic focused on how this would help the community not people currently using 'haxed based teams'

    With your point on ladder scores, obviously theres a certain point of skill involved beating battlers but the main point is how the player 'doesn't get haxed out of games' which causes them to tilt. The odds of playing games since around 1700 getting constant +6-7s and not getting critical hitted (or some type of 'hax) for the game is important, while the top of the ladder is filled with players in the same clan its very easy for players like that to find eachother on the ladder and be more lenient towards the scores. Once again I'm not pointing any fingers but its so easy for players 'being that high up' to get to a point where they are only facing people on 100 rating and with players at the top not laddering as regularly as other users its hard to prove the legitimacy of these scores.

    (Hard to get my point across if this makes no sense I apologize, I'll edit when I get more sleep)
     
  4. Yagura

    Yagura

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    One of them is here!

    Well, I played the Ubers metagame since early 2012, I remember it was pretty much fun to ladder even though I couldn't make it to 1400 until few months ago.. When I went to see the first page of the ladder I noticed that the first guy has 1770, it's kinda a record I think, I don't want to point fingers but it's obviously impossible, I even won against that guy 3 times he's not a big deal or a legend..

    So I vote for ladder reseting, hoping that I'll ladder back..
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  5. BLUFF GOD

    BLUFF GOD eat an apple day sed,,

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    Can we please keep opinions of each other to ourselves if we can't express valid points. As I said I've no proof into clans boosting bar players who have already got banned, it was just part of my argument. If I wanted to launch a person attack on memebers of DR/DracoMasters or w/e I'd have bought up the point they are being lead by banned and current evading users so obviously they haven't got much respect for the rules, what means they have respect for the ladder?

    (You're welcome to delete this comment if you think I went abit too far @mods)

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  6. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    u didnt go too far but i dont know if / why i went to far...
     
  7. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    I'd be behind this
     
  8. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Badged Deucer

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    I don't have much experience of the ubers meta, but I'll make a quick, probably not hugely valid comment from my experience playing people from the DM clan in 1v1. In my experience they are good battlers, but they tend to ask for draws against people who they know beat them.. whilst I tend to not give in, I'm sure some probably do.. the lack of loss of points through that manner plus some level of skill does make it overall easier for them to reach a little higher on the ladder, even if it's purely out of habit. They are good players, but the way in which they play/act does make it slightly easier for them to ladder a little higher.

    Hope that wasn't too divergent or irrelevant.
     
  10. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    Is this a discussion about DM or what?

    i think probs is right and good players like me should get their ranking back.
     
  11. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    No, I don't think it was directed to your clan specially I think what he tried to say is: There's people on the ladder who always ask for draw when the variation is higher than their current peak and when they get someone who gives +6 -20 they play it out since it's someone who is supposed to be worse than them, slowly getting a good ranking, which is not legit imo.
     
  12. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    is it official now?
     
  13. Fosco

    Fosco .dancin

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    If they keep on boosting and asking for draws the reset won't solve anything in the long run, lol.
     
  14. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    report us if u have any proves but if u dont have ptoves u should stop to talk like that about other people.
     
  15. Yagura

    Yagura

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    I don't want to point fingers or change the way this is going but I DO have logs for some of you asking for draws, I can't send them right now because they are on my laptop and I'm using Android right now.So if a tier leader or an auth is interested I'll send to him the logs (But I can't right now, I'll be available after a couple of weeks.)
     
  16. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    y should leader or an auth be interested? it is allowed to ask
     
  17. Professor Oak

    Professor Oak same Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep Forum Administrator Server Owner Social Media Rep

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  18. ZoroDark

    ZoroDark i know everything

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    A ladder reset in combination with the removal of the draw button would go a long way in freshening up the Ubers ladder a bit. Definitely in support of this.
     
  19. Bamarah

    Bamarah "Baton Pass Elite"

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    As an Ubers player (Among other tiers) I fully support this much needed reset.

    The "boosting" problem needs to be addressed in another matter as I doubt a simple reset will resolve it. I kinda made an issue about this months ago when I noticed a rank score of 1820 on the NP Ubers ladder. Now, I totally respect any player that knows his shit in any tier but c'mon 1820? Even the so called best can't get that kinda of score especially on a dead ladder like NP Ubers. So, lets not just focus on 1 ladder & forget about the other. Also, another thing that makes things "easier" for people to get high scores is Smash Pass Dialga sometimes Palkia or Genesect. I honestly feel that Shell Smash should be completely banned from every metagame period just like Moody. This might sound ridiculous to those that can easily counter such a weak strategy but I'm sure people that are barley getting their feet wet in the Ubers tier(s) will be able to counter something so dangerous thus making them lose interest all together.

    I appreciate the effort that all the names on the list are doing to keep such a good metagame fair, thank you!
     
  20. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    It is easier to ladder in np ubers than in wifi ubers. But u are right 1820 is too high...
     
  21. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    If they ban Shell Smash Sasha will stop playing Pokemon, would be cool tho.
     
  22. chimpakt

    chimpakt Member

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    I support "the boy"
     
  23. Maxedofhaxed

    Maxedofhaxed they don't call me maxedofhaxed for nothing

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    chimpy the reset already happened lol
     
  24. Blimlax

    Blimlax A Silent and Serene Heart

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    Shell Smash itself doesn't need to be banned, only shell smash passing smeragle. I'm sure people will argue that it isn't "technically" broken, but it's a really brainless/ dumb / uncompetitive strategy and the game would be much better off with it gone. Quite a few of the other uber players who are considered some of the best (Donkey, Problems, Smart Kid /Edgar) agree with me on this. I highly doubt anything will be done about it, but I don't think it's a bad idea.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  25. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    yeah I completely agree with you, I didn't refer to it as "Smash Pass" because there is always some stupid people that say "You can always play around it" like it's an answer to any type of argument in this lifestyle called Pokemon.
     
  26. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    are u serious?

    it shouldnt be banned because some guys cant deal with it. there are so many counters in the game. people play ubers because anythig is allowed there y should smeagle with shell smash be banned then? stupid idea... (no i dont use smashpass)
     
  27. puregenius

    puregenius :<

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    Honestly I'd be really against banning shell smash because cloyster and omastar would be not worth using and they're both really cool mons with cloy being the best offensive spinner (arguably, tops can't get past gira)

    I don't really care if smash pass is banned or not
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  28. -Manaphy--

    -Manaphy-- Overconsumption

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    Now as much as I dislike SmashPass I'm against banning it for a few reasons:
    1.) It's a complex ban
    2.) It's not luck-based like Moody is
    3.) It's beatable
    I don't remember directly saying to you I support this but thankfully I do :P
     
  29. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    called it 100%. Name 3 common Pokemon (I mean not Sp.Def Lugia or bs like that) that can take a any move from Dialga that got the the smash pass (assume White Herb as Dialga's item) and can OHKO it with an attack they carry (besides Wobbuffet). And I know we can't ban it because >complex bans in ubers but, I still want to read your answer, If you don't I'll take it as if you don't know and your argument is completely invalid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  30. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    boosting and begging for draws on a pokemon simulator, i mean, i think its time to re evaluate your goals/life if you care this much about your falsely achieved rank.
     
  31. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    well is the only poke that can counter dialga when smeagle smashpassed it ditto (but it cant survive a move )but the point is that u can prevent smeagle from using baton pass with magic bounce, lum berry, hazards, taunt ( or predict magic coat and attack ). and i am sure that u know that many people run lum and espeed on arceus or ray.
     
  32. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    i am really sick of this man... PS: u know that not all members did it and that they didnt always do it ( did means past... )
     
  33. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    He didn't say it was directed to your clan LOL, I guess it hurts because it's true. Now to your reply to me, most of smash pass teams are developed enough to get rid of the things you mentioned before. Again, that was not what I asked tho.
     
  34. Slayer

    Slayer The Beast Incarnate

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    i am sure it was directed to our clan but w/e

    i already answered u with not many pokes can take a move of dialga but u can counter smeagle
     
  35. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Your clan has a lot of boosters, in fact i even saw one of them asking in tohjo 'can you be banned for boosting' lol, your clan has a reputation of being boosters now, whether you like it or not. and dont act like you were oblivious to it, if one of my clan members was going to boost id tell them to get some real skill and ladder properly like everyone else.
     
  36. Mysterion

    Mysterion Never give up

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    No idea how or why this developed into a discussion like it is now, but w/e i saw this:
    A lot of Arceusforms can handle it quite good with status/phazing/hard damage (i.e. Fightceus, Groundceus, Ghostceus (can't ko though, so have to hurt it in the switch in), Grassceus (in rain), Steelceus (might be wrong but iirc it can take an Aurasphere) and Rockceus). Besides of that you can also use sdef Jirachi (in rain), Pink Blobs, jolly Exca (considering that most Dialgas are modest), Scarftwo (lol), Scarfdarkrai. I am sure there is even more stuff I couldn't think off right now.
    It's true that a lot of this stuff can't beat Dialga with standard sets, but sometimes you need to think outside the box. And correct me please if some of this stuff is wrong, I was just too lazy to do much calcs. And if you say status is no true counter you might be right, but then you can ko it with other stuff and after you beat Dialga in a smashpass team you have usually won.
    So no I wouldn't ban it.
     
  37. .Rawr!

    .Rawr! c(°3°)כ

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    Words of truth.

    About Smash pass smeargle being banned, i am like "Are u serious?". It means something if he is still allowed in OU tier, no? Weather, Hazards, Magic bouncers, Phazers, Lum berries with priority, Sleep talkers, can i say more?
     
  38. -Leon-

    -Leon- bae <3

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    Why are you guys even arguing with people like Slayer lol
     
  39. Um Hello?

    Um Hello? Member

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    In terms of boosting, I'm not surprised.

    In terms of Smash Pass, Thundurus priority Thunder wave is probably the most reliable way to beat it, as it's very rare that a player can get off two smash passes in 1 match.

    -Just twave the +2/+2/+2 pokemon then bring something in that can revenge it when paralyzed. Or even something like a subseed Shaymin-S.

    I mean, this doesn't work if passed to a Groudon or similar, but Dialga is the most common receiver.
     
  40. Edgar

    Edgar I'm the ruler of the free world

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    Phazing a pokemon is not countering, it's just sort of "checking it momentarily"
     
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