So I was discussing this with a few people about how viable certain Pokemon are in the tier after reading a Smogon thread of the same name. We decided to spilt the tiers more than the original Smogon thread into tiernames with +'s and -'s in order to easily distinguish the Pokemon that are better or worse than others in the PO metagame. It has also been appropriately changed for the metagame here, although at the moment, it does not include any Pokemon outside of UU, although I would like your feedback on what to add to the list. This is my personal list which I've changed slightly from feedback and it is of course subject to change: Spoiler S Tier: Victini Kingdra Chandelure Mienshao Snorlax Heracross A+ Tier: Umbreon Togekiss Raikou Cofagrigus Zapdos (potential S) Roserade Reuniclus A Tier: Crobat Slowbro Rhyperior Mew Shaymin Flygon A- Tier: Metagross Sharpedo Azelf Nidoqueen B+ Tier: Qwilfish Weavile Darmanitan Empoleon Meloetta Porygon2 Porygon-Z Nidoking Suicune B Tier: Scrafty Virizion Rotom-H Sableye Honchkrow Blastoise Bronzong Arcanine Yanmega Amoonguss Gligar Cresselia B- Tier: Tornadus Zoroark Cobalion (potentially B) Azumarill Hitmontop C+ Tier: Machamp Golurk Milotic Registeel C Tier: Ambipom[/HIDE] Rules of the thread (taken from Smogon): ~Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated ~No flaming ~Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!" ~No talk about editing the OFFICIAL Pokemon Online tier lists. Save that for the official suspect discussion thread.
my personal list (note that OP's list is Fege's opinion, this one's mine) [SECRET] S Chandelure Cofagrigus Heracross Mienshao Snorlax Victini A+ Crobat Kingdra Raikou A Darmanitan Porygon2 Rhyperior Roserade Shaymin Slowbro Slowking Togekiss Umbreon Zapdos A- Flygon Nidoking Metagross Reuniclus Sharpedo B+ Accelgor Cobalion Druddigon Empoleon Golurk Mew Porygon-Z B Amoonguss Arcanine Cresselia Escavalier Hitmonlee Nidoqueen Qwilfish Rotom-H Scrafty Suicune Virizion Yanmega B- Azelf Azumarill Bronzong Meloetta Piloswine Tornadus C+ Blastoise Crustle Omastar Rotom-C Venomoth C Aerodactyl Cincinno Durant Ferroseed Gligar Hitmontop Honchkrow Krookodile Machamp Milotic Mismagius Sableye Steelix Swampert Weavile Xatu Zoroark C- Bisharp Cryogonal Ditto Drifblim Galvantula Gorebyss Houndoom Kabutops Lilligant Sceptile Scolipede Uxie D Ambipom Claydol Clefable Dusclops Ninjask Riolu Registeel Tangrowth Whimsicott [/SECRET] i've included many non-UU pokemon and stuff and made longer and more extensive list. my rationales for some that some have called into question: Cofagrigus in S - best anti-offense pokemon, great sweeper, beats almost all physical attackers Crobat in A+ - it's the ultimate utility pokemon in UU and checks/counters so many common/powerful things. Golurk in B - fits the meta perfectly, has a lot of uses Gligar in C - set-up bait, too much coverage destroys it Piloswine in B- - amazing tank, beats out a lot of common pokemon, useful priority off base 100 atk Drifblim in C- - not exactly a top tool against offense, but one nonetheless Porygon2 in A - powerful + bulky, extremely versatile Reuniclus in A- - often has a hard time setting up, and i think cofag is more useful for TR usually will gladly talk abt more. i'll also talk abt other ppls' lists as we go along, if thats what we're doing.
Free Blastoise from the realms of B Ranks With 3 (potentially 4 in the S class weak to SR) and blastoise's access to foresight I believe he deserves to be somewhere around A- (or even higher) The tier is very centered around switch synergy atm and also contains alot of active Hazard users and with Snorlax and suicune being phasers their is a reason blastoise is #5 in usage stats this is also the reason it should rank higher in viablity!
coz I'm lazy! Spoiler S Tier: Victini Togekiss Kingdra Chandelure Mienshao Snorlax Heracross I guess this is pretty good, tho lack a few pokes imo. A+ Tier: Umbreon being the most viable cleric in the tier, and the fact that Foul play might pack a punch, I believe this is worthy of an S tier. It's also great for scouting threats with it's common protect, tho it might also screw it over if a SubSweeper. Raikou Cofagrigus Zapdos (potential S) Roserade Honestly, it's too slow imo. It is indeed powerful, but baring spiking, Shaymin is faster, strong enough with a great STAB and good coverage, and outspeeds all the fire types in the tier (I think), -baring Victini, which is a speedtie-, if they doesn't run a scarf set, and can threaten to KO with Epower. I don't think Roserade can do this. Shaymins SubSeed set is also better, because of it's 100Hp stat and generally higher speed. Should be A- imo, seeing that all it's set is outclassed by shaymin, baring spiking, which also imo is outclassed by the more defensive Roselia. Reuniclus A Tier: Crobat Slowbro <3 Rhyperior Mew Flygon A- Tier: Metagross Sharpedo Azelf Shaymin A+ imo, for the same reasons as stated on Roserade! Nidoqueen Underrated counter to the fighting types in this tier, same goes for Golurk really. Not sure if they should move up tho ... B+ Tier: Qwilfish Weavile Underrated sweeper, Adamant, LO, SD set is pretty underrated. Nothing that outspeeds wants to take an Ice shard, while nothing beneath would like to take a lowkick or a Night slash. A- sweeper imo, because of the fact that it's hard to bring in. Darmanitan Eventhough most fire types are walled by the bulky water types, this one loses health too if brought in while Flare Blitzing. It also lacks speed imo (Tho it's stronger than Victini). B- imo. Empoleon Meloetta Porygon2 Porygon-Z The power of Download+Specs is too huge. Nothing Switches in on it, not even a Snorlax. Hard to bring in and slow tho. A-. Nidoking Suicune Almost no teams are prepared for this pokemon. at +1 Sp.def, it's almost imposibble to kill for anything that isn't Electric/Grass. A+ imo. B Tier: Scrafty Together with Togekiss, this is the best stallbreaker in the tier. DD+Taunt sets up on about any wall not carrying Gyro ball, HardHitting Fighting moves or Dragon tail. Drain Punch can easily heal it back. if Togekiss is S rank, then Scrafty is so too. (It also has a decent amount of reliable sets that doesn't bank as much on hax as the rest of Togekiss sets.) Virizion Rotom-H Sableye Honchkrow Blastoise Possibly the most viable spinner in this tier (Fire resistance, good enough defenses to take a fighting type move), I suggest this being A tier. Bronzong Great Support pokemon, walls some good frail sweepers, B+ imo. Arcanine Yanmega Amoonguss Gligar B- Tier: Tornadus Zoroark Cresselia How come you put this lunatic here????? It walls most of the tier alone, not even 2HKOd by flare blitz from ScarfDarm, barely 2HKOd by scarf Heracross Megahorn, access to reliable recovery, CM, Sub for hax, can even run a support set, and has decent coverage moves, great speed for a wall, but medicore sweeper Sp.atk, which is btw possible to boost. S tier rank pokemon, even more viable than Heracross, Victini and Togekiss. Cobalion (potentially B) Azumarill Hitmontop Being the second most viable spinner in the tier, being 3HKO'd by most fighting attacks thanks to intimidate, and access to Foresight/Sucker Punch, I believe this one is B+ or A-. C+ Tier: Machamp Golurk One of the best Fighting type counters, counters every fighting type (Baring Virizion, generally beats Scrafty 1v1 with Dynamic punch/EQ/Dpunch), can easily set up on them all. B+ if not A- . Milotic One of the only decently reliable counters to Chandelure, access to reliable recovery, great ability and great stats, I believe this thing is pretty good in a B+ tier or A-. Registeel ... Beats every special attackers 1v1 baring the fire types. Protect+Toxic can easily both heal and stall enough for this thing to be a huge threat. in case of emergency: 252 SpAtk Choice Specs Rotom-H (+SpAtk) Overheat vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Registeel (+SpDef) : 96,15% - 113,74% (75% chance to OHKO) Thats fucking SpecsModest base 105 OVERHEAT! and it doesn't even guarantee an OHKO on Registeel. A+ or at least A. CZ Tier: Ambipom <--- Dodrio is more viable. Now, for LU/NU/NEU pokemons that are actually viable in UU: Spoiler Mismagius SubNastyPlot, Decent speed, could run a scarf set or a Support set. B+ Zweilous Most powerful Outrage in the game with BandHustle, but a Specially defensive Resttalking set has proved to be great, can counter Chandelure. B Piloswine Bulky piece of shit, SR, priority, strong STABs, base 100 atk. Indeed a great Bulky supporter. B Scolipede Great Spiker, with great typing to take on Fighting types, a SD sweeper might also work for late game. B- Accelgor Fast Spiker.... what? B- Crustle Spikes, Stealth rocks, Suicide! B- Cryogonal Being able to spin on a lot of special attackers and threaten things like Shaymin/Zapdos is pretty cool imo. B Roselia Spiker, Support... Can actually take physical hits ^ Rest+Natural cure is also good. A Bouffalant Setting up a Sub on a lot of walls, and KO the incoming chekcs with Return/Earthquak/Payback. Immune to SubSeed. A- Ferroseed Hazards B+ Frillish Just a bulky ghost type really, but can also take hits and taunt Bulky water types. B Archeops Theres not really too many things that can switch in on a move. Too powerfull, but Deafitist stops it. B+ or A- Lanturn Too high Sp.def, only fearing Energy Ball from SpecsLure (Fire Blast being a 4HKO with Lefties). B+ Escavalier Pretty good counter to Reuniclus, unless the rare Hp Fire. Endure+Custap is also a very good set. Can take a decent amount of hits, damn strong. B+ Dusclops Just another ghost really, but bulky as hell. B- Gastrodon Great typing, reliable recovery, great ability, decent coverage. Also got enough power to run a Specs set. Complete stop to things like Suicune. B- Houndoom Good trapper, can run Mix/NP/Sash set. Takes care of pesky Chandelures and other Ghosts in general. B [/HIDE] All I can think of at the moment. Generally a good thread for New players. Great job Fegelein :] Will edit this later.
Reading feedback and from thinking over it, these are my proposed potential changes and things to discuss.: Cofagrigus to S (it works great as an anti-metagame mon, and is a very potent sweeper in TR) Umbreon to S (the best Wish passer in the tier bar none. Very bulky and can even take on sweepers with Foul Play) Suicune to A- (An extremely bulky sweeper with only 2 weaknesses) Shaymin to A (faster than Roserade and works well against its counters with its SubSeed set) Golurk to B- (as much as I hate it, it is anti-metagame and somewhat effective) Porygon2 to A- (Effective tank, quite versatile) Blastoise to B+ (while it can only really Rapid Spin and is not effective outside of that, it does its job moderately well and is the best Rapid Spinner in the tier) Cresselia to B (extremely bulky, versatile, anti-metagame to an extent) Bronzong to B+ (reliable support Pokemon, 1 weakness) I'll also work on the lower tiered Pokemon. I need more suggestions on what to add here. If someone could make a list of all the lower tier mons that are effective in UU so I can add them where I see fit, that would be most appreciated
Odamn, thats alot. I need to look through the fucking tiers. I'll only post a brief description on the pokemons that might need so. I will not include randoms like Dodrio, Stunfisk and Camerupt. This post will be updated. Update! I have not included any Passing pokemons, so the likes of Gorebyss and such is not included. Not including BL2 pokes. No randoms that might work like Dodrio, Stunfisk, Camerupt or Frillish. Spoiler Accelgor Braviary (Mainly the SubRoostBulk up set) Crustle Cryogonal Claydol Druddigon Durant Dusclops Escavalier Feraligatr Ferroseed Gallade Galvantula Hitmonlee Kabutops (Mainly sweeper sets) Krookodile Lanturn Lilligant Magneton (Sub+3 attacks is generally effective, many great players has been using this with great success) Mismagius Omastar (Best as a spiker, also works as a late game sweeper) Rotom Rotom-C Sandslash (Bulky spinner with no Bug weakness as the likes of Claydol) Sceptile Scolipede Scyther Sigilyph Spiritomb Tangrowth Venomoth (SubDisable sweeper) Zoroark Alomomola (Generally outclassed by Suicune, but it's got huge WishPasses) Drapion (Bulky Tspikes) Drifblim (Semidecent cleaner with an Unburden set) Gastrodon Haunter (Mismagius+Chandelure) Houndoom Piloswine Roselia (Bulkier than Roserade) Seismitoad (Generally the Specs Set) Swellow Torkoal (Despite the weakness to Rocks, it's bulky asf and got decent support movepool) Torterra Weezing Bouffalant Quagsire Zweilous (Best Chandelure counter at the moment, great bulky pokemon that also packs a punch)[/HIDE] Not sure if should be included: Spoiler Bisharp (Powerful, bad movepool, but includes the moves it needs) Entei/Typhlosion (Generally outclassed by the other fire types) Manectric (Generally outclassed by the other Electric types) Medicham (Generally outclassed by the other Fighting types) Jynx (Almost never gets a chance to set up, frail) Poliwrath (Bulky asf, good Suicune counter. Not sure if good enough for the tier tho) Musharna (Bulky Psychic type, generally outclassed by Cresselia) Rhydon (3HKOd by certain moves that 2HKOs Rhyperior, tho still I believe that Rhyperior would do a better job nontheless) Tauros (Strong, but frail) Mandibuzz (Bulky bird pokemon, generally outclassed by Crobat, tho the STAB Foul Play is good.) [/HIDE]
Okay, here's some noms for lower tier mons. (and other stuff too) Accelgor to B- Its blazing Speed makes it in my opinion one of the best spikers UU has to offer. It gets those Spikes up quickly and reliably and it also packs a nice punch with Bug Buzz and the likes; Final Gambit is also pretty fun. Accelgor is also a capable special sweeper, hitting pretty hard and packing good coverage, which allows it to sweep teams on its own, so it isn't simply a Spiker either. Ambipom to D- This thing sucks. Fake Out is shit, it's weak shit, etc. For more, read my post on Smogon here. I'm aware of the different meta's between PO and Smogon UU's, but what I said about Ambipom there also applies here; Ambipom is equally shit in both metas. Bisharp to B- or C+- Bisharp is pretty good. While it requires quite a bit of support for it to work to its fullest potential, the payoffs are awesome. After an SD boost, Bisharp is quite frightening, and Bisharp has the ability to sweep with powerful Sucker Punches that snipe offensive teams with ease, and Iron head or Low Kick can help as coverage options. Generally needs some support as it's slow and reliant on a shaky move, but with proper support and finesse, this thing will shine. Cinccino to B-- Cinccino is awesome. It has quite a bit of power behind its moves thanks to Skill Link, and its Speed and power means it can sweep teams quite easily. It also has the awesome ability to break Sashes and Substitutes; tying with Raikou and Azelf is also awesome. Cinccino also grabs momentum very well with U-turn; and it pairs up well with things like Chandelure, allowing them to get in and destroy things like Bronzong and Cofagrigus. A very good and underrated Pokemon, definitely on the lower end of B. Claydol to C or C-- Honestly, Claydol is pretty meh. Claydol has a really hard time spinning and it's just so weak to this metagame; pretty much everything in the Top 30 can and will beat Claydol one-on-one. It also has this terrible inability to switch into anything aside from Thunderbolt and Earthquake. Good on paper, bad in practice. Druddigon to B+- Druddigon is amazing. Dragon is a rare typing in UU outside of Kingdra and Flygon, and since they're not splashable on every team, Druddigon has a great niche. It hits hard as hell, and has nice bulk, which means it wallbreaks like a complete boss; it also hits much harder than Flygon, which is nice since it cleanly 2HKO's Slowbro, and thus Slowbro can't even counter Druddigon. It also has really good resistances and the scarcity of Steels means it will rarely fail to achieve at least one KO per game. Rough Skin+ParaShuffler sets are also really good, this thing is B+ for sure. Dusclops to C+- Dusclops isn't too terrible. its bulk is pretty amazing, and Curse sets are wonderful on stall teams since stall dislikes BU Scrafty and NP+Heal Bell Togekiss, and although Curse doesn't let it beat the stallbreakers, this places them on a timer, while Dusclops has nice bulk to take a hit even after Curse, so it can Pain Split away. between Curse, Pain Split, and WoW, Dusclops is a stalling machine, so it can do well on heavy stall. It also has RestTalk to stall out the PP of moves with Pressure, so it does do well on stall. Dusclops also has a nice typing by UU standards anyways. Escavalier to B+- This thing is amazing. 135 Attack with CB Megahorn is powerful, and Escavalier can destroy teams with its raw power. Pursuit is also a great move to allow it to trap threats such as Roserade, and its typing allows it to come in on whatever the hell it wants to and proceed to trap or get a free kill. Its many resistances and nice bulk grant it a lot of switch in opportunities, and Escavalier is overall just amazing. This thing performs well in TR too, and it has nice synergy with OTR Cofagrigus and Reuniclus, pulverizing Umbreon pretty well while still having nice sweeping potential. Krookodile to B- or B- Krookodile is simply a boss. When it comes to late game cleaning, Krookodile simply pulverizes teams with Moxie and good Speed, which means in the late game, nothing can stop this thing. Pursuit is also an awesome move so Krookodile can trap Azelf, which is nice. Dark STAB is really good, and EQ sweetens the deal. Krookodile also has a CB set that has a lot of surprise factor. This thing is a boss and should be B imo. Lilligant to B- or B- Really good sweeper, Sleep powder is nice for the incapacitation, and QD makes Lilligant ridiculously scary. After this thing grabs some boosts very little can stop Lilligant from sweeping teams, an amazing Pokemon and is a pretty solid B mon. Magneton to C+- It's a really good trapper, works very well alongside Druddigon, Magneton+Druddigon is like the best thing ever. Magneton removes Steels, hits hard, and wears down physical walls. Those weaknesses are bad though, but Magneton can get the job done when needed. Mismagius to B-- Not too bad, SubNP and SubCM are great sweepers while stallbreaker means Mismagius can support its team. Only problem is, Cofagrigus is generally superior. Scolipede to B- Amazing Speed and awesome movepool, one of the best spikers for an offensive teams. Great coverage in Megahorn+QuakeSlide as well, Toxic Spikes are also pretty cool. SD Scolipede is also a beastly sweeper, Scolipede isn't top tier by any means, but it's a good fit on offensive teams. I'd add more but just my two cents.
I would strongly contest Umbreon in S. It's very effective, but no other pokemon in S is as predictable, and no other pokemon in S uses only 1 set. It's a good special wall, and the top wish passer, not that that's a heavily contested role. Not even in A+ do we see Pokemon who are not at least quite versatile and have minimum 2-3 common, effective sets. I absolutely think it belongs in mid A which is where we start to see UU pokemon that have only one set 95% of the time but which is a significant threat.
Hi. I am going to share changes to the list in the current OP that I believe should be implimented to make it a more accurate list to represent the current metagame. Raikou to S Rank Raikou is a very strong electric doggy. With Calm Mind sets, Choiced Sets, Lure sets, etc., it does very well in the current metagame. The most prominent sets are SubCM and Specs, but the other ones fit into many teams, too. Overall, Raikou is a huge threat and with its great Speed / SAtk, I believe it's worthy of being an S-Tier pokemon. Kingdra to A+ Rank Kingdra is indeed a powerful Water-Dragon pokemon; however, it isn't easy for Kingdra to set-up and the specs set is walled by common Special walls such as Umbreon and Snorlax. Rain Dance Kingdra is a force to be reckon with, but it just doesn't have the ability to set up an RD and fire off attacks at will without being killed rather easily. DD Kingdra never really wowed me and it never had the ability to break through walls such as Slowbro. Good pokemon, not S-Rank though. Snorlax to A+ Rank Sure, Snorlax has a powerful CB set, annoying phaser set, and special walling abilities. However, it just isn't that productive in the current metagame. It is killed by so many common threats, walled by most of the top-bulky pokemon, and only has a few niches (Special Defense, Only 1 weakness, maybe one or two other small ones.) I like Umbreon better as a wall as it has Wish and Heal bell, while there are a plethora of stronger pokemon on the Physical Attacking side. Sure, lax is still a very helpful pokemon to many teams, but it falls a bit short of S-Rank imo. Shaymin to A Rank Shaymin is a beastly Special Attacker. Its LO Set with STAB Seed Flare, Earth Power, and another coverage move of choice is a very good pokemon that fits well onto many offensive teams and into FWG cores. Although Roserade stole some of its thunder, Shaymin is still a great pokemon on the offensive. Also, it can run a Sub Seed set and other bulky sets in general, thanks to Natural Cure, Leech Seed, and its large movepool in general! A Rank is certainly a fair place for it as it still has a rather big niche in the current metagame! Mew to A- Rank Mew is a great and versatile pokemon. However, it is outclassed with nearly every set. some like Crobat as a stallbreaker, although this is one of mew's few decent sets. as an NP sweeper, it is weak to scarf cross and others so people like other late game sweepers which the UU tier is full of (TR Reun is better, imo.) the SD set is underated, but it doesn't have that huge of a niche in general. Overall, Mew is just a plain OK pokemon in UU, not much more. A- rank is fine for it. Gligar to B+ Rank Resisting fighting, having amazing physical bulk w/ eviolite, having SR, u-turn, and reliable recovery are only some of gligar's amazing qualities. Gligar is quite a pesky wall and overall, it fits into many teams and is a top-tier pokemon in the UU tier. Walling a goodportion of the tiers physical attackers with ease and having somewhat decent special bulk is also helping gligar, B+ is a good spot for it. will edit in later, but my other changes are: Tornadus to B rank, Porygon2 to B rank, PorygonZ to B rank, Cress to B rank, Golurk to B-, Yanmega to B-, Rotom-H to B-, Zoroark and Registeel toC.
kiss shouldn't be S tier! we all know it completely destroys defensive teams but the common NP+2 attack sets struggle to find room to set up against heavy offense, as its good bulk is offset by its weakness to SR metagross is great in theory but in a metagame full of bulky waters it should probably move down a couple of ranks B+ is a bit too high for Emp, as it's great but fills a fairly small niche and needs a good amount of team support to utilize properly. mienshao is an amazing mon and the best scarf user in the tier, but it's also extremely one dimensional. everything else that can be considered for S Tier fits on every type of team (hera, lax) and/or has a ton of offensive variety and multiple viable sets (chandy, tini, kingdra). mien doesn't quite fit that mold but it is the best scarfer in the tier so it's a strong A+ agree with finch on raikou and kingdra, disagree that lax or gligar should move. I would strongly consider shaymin for A+ but that might be asking too much
I agree that Togekiss isn't an S pokemon. I think my placement of it in mid A is accurate because it's a high threat but has problems with offensive teams. On reflection a position of B+ to B is probably the place for Metagross. It's good but it has too much trouble with the current UU meta. I think B+ is perfect for Empoleon but maybe that's because I keep coming across teams that aren't prepared enough for Sub Agility Petaya. Mienshao not exactly the -most- versatile pokemon in UU but it runs at least 3 or so good sets (LO, Scarf, SubPass) and also runs CB and SD which i haven't actually seen in action so I won't pass judgement on. Mienshao is an absolutely huge factor in teambuilding in UU, possibly the biggest in the tier even though it's only #3 in usage. SubPass is also an incredibly underrated and underused set that allows it to become huge trouble for bulkier teams, especially ones that might rely on recovery or wishpassing. I absolutely think it belongs in S due to its heavy impact on the tier and ability to take on a whole bunch of different roles for a UU team. This is in spite of the fact that most of its sets have the same checks or counters but then same for Chandelure and Heracross really. Raikou to S rank I could probably get behind. It's such an immediate high threat to any team the second it's in play, regardless of its set. You have to scout pretty heavy to figure whether it's CM/SubCM, Specs, Scarf, and what coverage moves it's running. Mispredict its coverage and you often lose a pokemon, don't figure out that it's a CM set soon enough and you're getting swept. It's definitely a really low-risk, high-reward pokemon. Agreed re Kingdra in A+, for all the reasons Finch listed. Snorlax... I dunno. What I do know is it's a LOT better for most teams than Umbreon. Its ability to slot into most teams and be a simultaneous offensive and defensive threat is really unique and powerful. The only other pokemon I'd say that can do that in the tier as well is Cofagrigus - Cofagrigus has the advantage of being the most effective anti-meta pokemon, Snorlax has the advantage of more immediate power, better coverage and reliable recovery. I'd tend more towards S for it than A+, but I'm not militantly against it. Umbreon really does belong in mid A though. Shaymin I absolutely agree belongs in A. Can't really say more than what Finch said there. It fits UU so perfectly. A- seems like a good position for Mew, I had it placed in B+ because I didn't feel its niches are effective enough for an A pokemon, though I guess the fact that I'm saying "niches" to begin with reflects significantly on its effectiveness in UU. Gligar I've already voiced my opinion on before. I really think it's B- to C+ at best. Even though it's aces at walling common attacks, it's a huge offensive momentum loser for teams and its problems with being set-up bait for common pokemon are huge. I'd much sooner run Crobat, Golurk, Piloswine, etc for a slot like it. Tornadus to B rank, disagree, I feel this thing is heavily overrated and it's not even that highly rated to begin with. It's too frail to do what it needs to do and its coverage is lacking. B- is fine for it imo. Porygon2 to B rank, disagree, it's a strong mid A rank pokemon imo, or A- at worst. Like Slowbro it can be a strong defensive or offensive threat, though usually not simultaneously like I mentioned with Snorlax and Cofagrigus. PorygonZ to B rank, I think B+ is fine for it. Its ability to blow teams apart is near unparalleled, while also being a bit difficult to play or get in reliably. It's a high threat that most teams have to account for, which i think puts most pokemon in A, but its flaws I think place it lower than that. Cress to B rank, agreed, underrated threat that can be scary at times. You will lose to this if you don't pack a strong super effective hit - which many teams do, hence why I'd say B rather than any higher. Golurk to B-, seems fine, I think it has a lot more use than most people credit it for though. But then again I want it back in LU/NU, so put it at D to discourage ppl from using it. lol jk Yanmega to B-, that's fine though I think B is ok too, if more people ran a tinted lens set instead of crappy speed boost I feel like it'd be a higher threat. Bug and Flying STAB i think are pretty good in UU, it just also has a lot of flaws. Rotom-H to B-, I think it's fine in B, it's one of the better scarfers/revengers/momentum gainers in the tier and is a problem for a lot of common threats, while obviously being flawed and having limited durability. Zoroark and Registeel to C. Agree given that we don't have LU/NU pokemon in the list atm. Zoro to mid-low C when we do, Regi to D. Registeel is an Ambipom tier pokemon and you are always better off running a different steel type. Zoroark manages to be a high risk, low reward pokemon in every game, even with Illusion ability. EDIT: on the thought of LU/NU pokemon I'd like to highlight where in my list I placed them. A - Slowking / B+ - Accelgor, Druddigon / B - Escavalier, Hitmonlee / B- - Piloswine / C+ - Crustle, Omastar, Venomoth / C - Aerodactyl, Cincinno, Durant, Ferroseed, Krookodile, Mismagius, Steelix / C- - Bisharp, Cryogonal, Ditto, Drifblim, Galvantula, Gorebyss, Houndoom, Kabutops, Lilligant, Sceptile, Scolipede, Uxie / D - Claydol, Clefable, Dusclops, Ninjask, Riolu, Tangrowth, Whimsicott
The only suggestion I'll add for now is Reuniclus to S rank Also you might want to add descriptions above the ranking lists describing how good the pokemon in that ranking are, like on Smogon in the OU thread. Reuniclus should be S for the following reasons. Can run a variety of effective sets so you're always guessing Best wall breaker in UU, can hit physical and special. Takes no damage from Hazards or Toxic/Burn On Balance teams can single handedly check stall. Decent bulk 110 / 75 / 85. Insane special attack with 125. Umbreon does not want to even switch into Focus Blasts. Reuniclus can set up on a big portion of the metagame and almost every wall. Umbreon might be the best check but Reuniclus sets up all over its face. The definition of S tier, is something that with no support can work on any team this is 100% true with Reuniclus it can sweep on offensive teams and support balanced teams it doesn't need hazards or any synergy to kill at least a mon by itself.
The following change has been made: Shaymin is now A Tier. Anything else needs some more support behind it at the moment. About Togekiss: I strongly, strongly believe this thing should be S Tier. It is the best stallbreaker in the tier along with Scrafty (which is weak to the common fighting types) with its NP + Heal Bell set, allowing it to trounce slower teams. It has amazing base stat totals which allow it to run a variety of movesets and even its speed isn't terrible, sitting at 80, allowing it to outspeed the slower Pokemon in the tier. It can also take nearly every hit in the tier and proceed to punish with a Thunder Wave or a strong Air Slash.
I just honestly don't really think that "best stallbreaker in the tier" is an S-tier worthy role in UU. Stall is just completely dead, absolutely everything breaks it. Its good bulk and offensive potential and ability to punish slow bulky offense teams is what makes it good, and what makes it an A tier pokemon imo.
Cresselia to B or B+ tier. Cresselia is one of the best walls in the game, allowing to check threats such as Victini, Shaymin, Mienshao and Raikou / Zapdos with ease. It has Moonlight to recover HP lost while doing her job, and an immunity to Ground which allows her to avoid Spikes and Toxic Spikes hazards, allowing her to switch in more often. It also has decent speed for a wall and it can run a very dangerous CM set; even Choice Specs can work effectively to her. Sure it gets weaknesses to U-Turn and Pursuit, however skilled players will know when to switch in Cresselia into Pokémon that carry those more anyways, so yeah. Nidoking to A- tier. It's faster and more powerful than Nidoqueen iirc, and it still has the good bulk that Nidoqueen has (only a bit worse). Virizion to B+ tier. No I'm not trying to be biased, but Virizion can take the bulky Water-types of the tier with its unique Grass / Fighting typing and Fighting grants it coverage to many threats in the current UU metagame. Sure it gets a 4x weakness to Flying and 2x l Fire, however Virizion isn't going to switch into Pokémon such as Crobat and Scarf Victini much too their higher Speed stat in the first place. I will add more later.
It gets more than that. It has access to Nasty Plot, one of the best boosting moves in the entire game which makes it a nightmare to wall, especially with flinchhax. What's more, it has a huge movepool and a variety of effective sets, making it very unpredictable and difficult to manage.
Venomoth is pretty viable in UU and requires minimal support... it's one of the few pokemon that can setup on HJK from Scarf Mienshao as well as all slower pokemon in the tier thanks to Sleep Powder. Offensive Life Orb with Bug Buzz + HP Rock and QuiverPass are it's best sets imo, never really tried SubDisable but it doesn't sound too impressive. When it passes two Quivers to something like Togekiss or Nidoking you can prepare to get swept, though.
Looks to me as if the entire B list is filled with a LOT of Pokemon. To be honest, I believe Virizion needs a slight bump upward as it can definitely wall a lot of bulky waters (though not exactly being able to downright check a lot of Pokemon in the B tier itself, but as a special wall, it is a godsend.)
To be honest with you guys, i think this extra ratings are not a help. Every pokemon in the tier should threaten equally. Extra ranks just confuse people and everyone has a different personal list anyway. Next point is the synergy, different pokes , moves, Items and even EVs may work effective in different ways. The only important thing, finding the best/broken? is already covered by the suspect thread. Not to mention one drop from OU/ban/new move and the whole list is outdated.
a) this list is not official and has nothing to do with standard tiering b) this has nothing to do with "threaten equally," it's simply a representation of how well a pokemon functions in the tier
A few immediate thoughts: Raikou definitely merits an S-tier ranking, and I think Togekiss should be bumped down a notch. Blastoise deserves to be bumped up, being the best rapid spinner in the tier. I'd prolly move Bronzong up as well, and I don't think Nidoqueen deserves as high of a ranking as she has received. I might edit this post with more thoughts if I find time to look over the OP in more depth. Cool thread Feg
imo, Umbreon needs to be S tier Crustle needs to have a place too Togekiss goes down Umbreon has one set and shines no matter what you do. Switching in on a toxic means you're gonna get stalled. It can whittle out stuff like Sharpedo and Chandelure while providing amazing support. Plus, nabbing a toxic on the switch in on Yanmega means dead bug. Bug buzz deals around 60~70% which you can wish stall until it dies of LO and Poison. Crustle 2 pro. Togekiss is kinda eh imo. The bulk is unexpected most times but I don't see it as that destructive of a force.
I thought Golurk wasn't UU.. and I'm surprised Reunclius and Metagross are as low as they are, dropping from OU.
I really don't feel that Togekiss deserves an S ranking. While it may be one of the best stallbreakers (I don't feel that it can claim #1 in the current meta), it's stallbreaking set lacks the speed that it need against an offensive metagame. While it can get the retarded flinch hax, the weakness to the omnipresent Stealth Rock, weakness to the common Snorlax, and the fact that its best set it outspeed and 2HKO'd by a lot of things if it predicts wrong, keeps it from being in the top rank. I don't feel that Umbreon deserves to be in S rank. It lacks the offensive presence of Snorlax, and, even though Foul Play is a good move, it leaves a lot to be desired against a number of other threats, especially with a Sub up. While it is probably the best Wish passer in UU, it doesn't shape the metagame like the Pokemon in S do. It should stay in A or A+. Personally, I see Tornadus as a B+ Pokemon, with its amazing offensive typing and synergy with Kingdra. It also has two vastly different sets, which can really hurt opposing predictions, even with the lack of set-up time. I feel that Nidoking and Nidoqueen should be switched, even though Nidoqueen /can/ have more bulk and more power, it is outsped by so many common things on any standard offensive / balanced teams that she finds it hard to actually get an attack off. Nidoking has the luxury of outspeed the crowded 80 base speed mark, and can keep up pressure against the increasingly speedy UU tier. Blastoise deserves at least A-, if not A. It's pretty much the best spinner in the tier, with both Foresight and great mixed bulk. Unlike Hitmontop, Blastoise can threaten with burn or Toxic, and has Roar to scout potential switches, and to rack up extra hazard damage.
Zapdos should definitely be S rank in my opinion. It's a very versatile pokemon that can fit on almost any team by running either offensive or defensive very well with its great typing, move set, and stats. Flygon should go down to at least B rank. The scarf set is very underwhelming in power and the banded set, while much better, still doesn't break walls as well as other banded pokemon in the tier, even with Outrage resisted only by Steels. Venomoth should also be on that thread in probably the A- or B+ ranking just because of its ability to easily baton pass Quiver Dance, one of the best boosting moves in the game, due to also having access to Sleep Powder and its Dream World ability. It can also make for a pretty effective sweeper with LO or SubDisable with Tinted Lens, but it's not anything to write home about.
Togekiss isn't S Rank. I would say it's more of an A Rank Pokemon if anything. It is neither destructive nor indestructible and is much easier to stop than people make it. It's very good but not that good. From practice, Crustle is perfectly viable. The Cutsap Lead is outrageously good, especially since it can take out a predicted Xatu effortlessly and can Double Spike professionally. Maybe C+ range. Jump Blastoise and Bronzong too. Also, swap the Nidos. The extra speed is much more preferred than the bulk from my experience. All I got now for now.
The following change has been made (reluctantly): Togekiss is now A+ Tier I also need to get around to adding the LU/NU Pokes too.
http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/sho...-Viability-Ranking-Thread&p=307585#post307585 Most of them are definitely useful, tho some might need spesific team support.
Nominating Gligar for C. It doesn't wall an awful lot of threats in UU and the only things I've seen it consistently wall are Scarf Hera/Shao and Flygon (and I guess Krookodile). Gligar loses to SD Heracross and HP Ice Mienshao; and when you're a physical wall who can't beat the two premier Fighting-type Pokemon in the tier you know something's wrong. Gligar also loses to the other Fighting-types bar Hitmontop; Scrafty and to an extent Machamp have Ice Punch, while Cobalion and Virizion have HP Ice as well and CM sets destroy Gligar anyways. Gligar is weak and can't do a lot of damage to anything; its EQ can't even OHKO the frail Darmanitan without any Attack investment. This means Gligar is setup fodder to the max. Maybe not Raikou, but Zapdos, SD Heracross, Weavile, Azelf, Cofagrigus, Mismagius, Tornadus, etc. Anything can set up on Gligar, and it's pretty flawed; that warrants C imo. I'll add more later but that's one nomination I've got for now.
I believe Gligar should be B+ rank. I know that some of you belive it isn't that useful since this is a Hyper-Offensive metagame and Gligar is more of a wall without any offensive presence; however, it has a plethora of niches in the current metagame that make it a useful wall that its into many teams. First of all, it resists fighting type while providing Stealth Rocks with recovery. Nothing else can really do this, bar Gligar. While Rhyperior may be the sexier choice since it has great special bulk and fits into typical HO teams, Gligar counters the most common Heracross, Mienshao, Cobalion, Scrafty, Rhyperior, Flygon, Hitmontop, and Metagross while having Stealth Rock + Roost + U-turn / Toxic and the obvious Earthquake. Secondly, Gligar can fit on standard HO teams if given a try. Teams like: (Acceglor / Scolipede / Roserade) + Gligar + (Cofagrigus / Chandelure) + offensive core (I.e: Heracross, Zapdos, Shaymin, Empoleon, Mienshao, etc. Pokemon that synergetic ally work well on the offensive with hazards.) Overall, with great bulk thanks to Eviolite, good defensive typing, and hazards+recovery, Gligar is underrated in UU and should be (at least) B rank, if not B+!
In my opinion, we are doing this incorrectly. We first have to define what each ranking means ("S ranking if for Pokemon that meet x and y requirements) and after than we should start assigning rankings to Pokemon, otherwise this will just be too much of a mess. I think we should try to make this as less opinion based as it is possible, otherwise this thread isn't going to get us anywhere. Opinions on this? Should I start working on something?
Yes, this would be a much better way of doing it, however deciding what rank should mean what can also become subjective.