[BW2] Roserade Retest + Ladder Reset

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU' started by NAVIDAD PIRATE, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Roserade has been unbanned on the UU ladder for a testing period. In the past this Pokemon was proven broken and the idea behind this retest is to see if the metagame changes have made that different.

    You can use this thread to discuss Roserade's effect on the current metagame. What are it's best sets? What are the best ways of dealing with it? Do you feel that Roserade is still too good for the UU metagame or have things changed enough that it fits in well? Keep in mind that we want to see posts based on experience and knowledge (not theorymon). Go and actually build a team that includes Roserade. This is the best way of seeing how good it is in the current metagame.

    No suspect discussion about Roserade will be opened for a minimum of two weeks and it will be only opened if a good portion of the community feels Roserade is suspect worthy, otherwise it will just be another Pokemon in the current metagame.

    IN ADDITION, the ladder will be reset for this reason, but also due to recent faggotry involving a certain Prankster user.

    Have fun!
     
  2. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Yay! I think it'll be OK - what with Togekiss, Chandelure, Crobat and more recently Metagross and Reuinclus I don't think it'll be broken. Still only time will tell.
     
  3. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    Oh. My. God. FINALLY. I'm so happy that this thing finally gets a re-test. I've been excited for this... I think Roserade's biggest thing will be the spiking ability. With access to both Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Aromatherapy, Roserade will probably find itself as a bulky spiker/supporter. Base 90 speed is great for that, great special bulk, and a nice 125 special attack I'm sure Roserade will find a nice niche. It has a great special movepool for UU (Extrasensory, Hidden Power, and the STAB moves) I can either see a Specs/LO set with or a defensive set with either both or one of the Spikes with Rest and Natural Cure being the best two with the defensive probably being the best. UU lacks good consistent spikers and Roserade can do this well.

    I can see a long list of checks and counters in my head right now (Snorlax, Umbreon, Cress, Crobat to name a few). The lack of Trick really hurts Roserade in this way, but we'll just have to see.
    The biggest thing here is finding symmetry for Roserade. Defensively, most pokemon don't have symmetrical typing (Slowbro maybe?)

    Anyway, onwards to testing. I'll be looking into Roserade offensively and defensively. The moves I'll be looking into are:
    Defensive: Aromatherapy, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Rest, Leech Seed, Leaf Storm, Hidden Power(?) and Giga Drain.
    Offensive: Sludge Bomb, Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, Hidden Power (Not sure which one), Shadow Ball, Extrasensory, Sleep Powder, and Rest.
     
  4. Jolteonnn

    Jolteonnn Jolt.

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    I don't remember Roserade being TOO broken before, so I'm glad this retest has come around. Especially with the common threats in UU such as those mentioned above, I think Roserade may find it's niche in UU. I will test it offensively and defensively to see whether it can be just useful, or too much to handle.
     
  5. Laurel

    Laurel Well-Known Member

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    YES! THANK YOU!
     
  6. The Dude

    The Dude The Mannis

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    I haven't used Roserade in a long time so I'll be sure to give it a go and it will be interesting how it goes in this metagame.
     
  7. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    Should be interesting.
     
  8. Big Bad Booty Daddy

    Big Bad Booty Daddy Big Poppa Pump

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    Using Roserade + Suicune will be fun. Roserade works for both Stall + HO Teams so I don't think there will be a dominance in either playstyle. People finally get to stop using Qwilfish and Garbodor! Yayayayayay Qwilfish back in LU.
     
  9. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    (Roserade) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Extrasensory[/HIDE]
    Seems like Roserade's base 90 speed is it's biggest downfall (offensively). A lot of things can outspeed and KO it. Mainly scarfers. Positive natured base 100's (Mew,Victini,Shaymin). Neutral Victini can take a Shadow Ball and KO. I haven't found a suitable Hidden Power yet for the Specs set. Fighting doesn't really do much, Ground has the same effect as Fighting. I have. Ice can be used but is typically outdamaged by STAB moves. Extrasensory proved to be more useful. Resisted Specs Leaf Storm is nothing to laugh at and even pokes that resist (offensive) get 2hk0'd more often than not. This thing is pretty powerful.
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Chandelure: 69.73% - 81.99%
    2 hits to KO
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Victini: 48.68% - 57.48%
    2-3 hits to KO
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Reuniclus: 90.09% - 106.13%
    37.5% chance to OHKO
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Heracross: 57.81% - 68.11%
    2 hits to KO
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Darmanitan: 76.64% - 90.31%
    2 hits to KO
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Scrafty: 71.26% - 84.43%
    2 hits to KO
    [/HIDE]
    The only reliable switch ins I have found are Togekiss (Bulky gets 2hk0'd by Sludge Bomb after Rocks), Umbreon, Amoongus, Metagross, Zapdos (Specially Bulky guaranteed 2hk0 w/ Sludge Bomb after Rocks), Bronzong, Porygon2, and Registeel. Crobat can only switch in if HP Ice or Extrasensory aren't used.
    Max Sp.D Cofagrigus gets wrecked too
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cofagrigus (+SpDef) : 72.5% - 85.62%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Roserade Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Cofagrigus (+SpDef) : 55.62% - 65.62%
    2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)[/HIDE]
    To summarize the specs set, I find this to be around as deadly as Specs Chandelure. Add 10 Base speed and Sacrifice 20 Base Sp.A. They have very similar coverage, Both are relatively bulky (60/90/90 for Chandy and 60/55/105 For Roserade). So far I don't consider it to be broken from the offensive standpoint.

    I'm going to test a Dual-Spiking set next
    (Roserade) (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rest/Giga Drain
    - Aromatherapy/Stun Spore[/HIDE]
    I feel like Rest and Giga Drain is redundant. Aroma vs Stun Spore based on team needs. Might play around with the EV's later.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  10. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Looking for forward to this!
     
  11. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    @ Celebi - I personally think you're better off using a Modest nature on Specs Roserade. Gives a lot more power, and if you're using HP Fire/Ice/Rock the negative speed IV will mean you won't tie with other base 90s anyway.
     
  12. phucvn

    phucvn Cheap player

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    glad roserade got a chance she deserves. Maybe froslass too let's leave that to the future.
     
  13. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    True. Makes more sense. Almost everything that will outspeed it is going to regardless of the nature. If they don't the generally win the matchup anyway. There aren't really any notable base 90 speed pokes that you will find on a semi regular basis in UU. Or any notable pokes it loses to without the Timid speed boost (I could be wrong. I just don't see anything as of now).
     
  14. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic It's no use!

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    good idea

    its ladder time
     
  15. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    I still think Roserade is OP in UU. Have fun to prove it again.

    Dont bother using spec, LO Shaymin does a better job.

    Spikes is the way to go.
     
  16. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    No and no.

    Specs and LO is actually A LOT more powerful than Shaymin and breaks many common walls with STAB Sludge Bomb. 90 Speed isn't great this format, but it's enough to harm Pokemon. It's perfectly viable.

    Spikes set is great but it isn't Roserade's only niche.

    I don't want to minimod, but this isn't the place to say if it's broken or not either :|
     
  17. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    It would be great if he gave more input on his reasonings for his opinion on Roserade, though...
     
  18. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Oh whoops. I didn't see that. Scratch what I said there :x

    If we can talk about it then, I'm currently undecided. Rose is powerful but the 90 Speed still gets on my nerves. It stops just about every common spinner in the tier, but those common weaknesses...

    I'll keep on testing and see later.
     
  19. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I've been using Specs Roserade on my team with Agility Metagross. They work well together, although they share a Fire weakness. It can remove pretty much all the Pokémon that give Metagross trouble - Slowbro, Milotic, Gligar, CroCune, all are destroyed by Leaf Storm. Once they're out of the way, Metagross can easily sweep. Sadly I only got to do 4 battles - my PO keeps locking up because I haven't got the new version yet (Macbook one hasn't been released). Will report back after some more thorough testing.
     
  20. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    I'll test RoseCore Aggro, utilizing SpecsRose as a pivot for Pokemon like AgiliGross, CroCune, and MoxieScarf Hera and the other way around for optimal performance.

    Haven't had a chance to test it but I will :x
     
  21. Clarion

    Clarion Snow on the Sahara

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    Now that Roserade's unbanned in the tier, this gives my Patapon team more love.

    Otherwise, I'm not thinking Roserade is broken at this moment because I have slight problems with it.
     
  22. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    So I've tested defensive and spiking sets and I must say offensive seems vastly superior in terms of effectiveness. Even with just Rocks as support Roserade can cause lots of damage just from switches, you don't even have to downright out predict your opponent. Defensive Roserade doesn't seem to be a direct threat to anyone and doesn't seem to cause problems to most teams, but the offensive sets (LO and Specs) are all problems. They threaten pretty much everything, however the base 90 speed is annoyingly crippling. The LO set seems much more versatile (usually carrying Sleep Powder) while the Specs set it just downright scary. It's pretty much something dies unless you have perfect prediction. I find this on the same level as things like Specs Chandy, the difference in speed doesn't hurt Chandy too much but the power is certainly appreciated.

    Some partners I've been using with Roserade and Scarf Victini, Scarf Mienshao (these two help bait for Roserade and they can take out what Roserade can't), Weavile (as long as no Rocks are up), Blastoise (Spinning helps), Golurk (spin blocking is nice), and Rhyperior for rock support and synergy.

    I don't think Roserade is quite broken, but something every team should look out for. Not in such a way that everyone carries Metagross (for Roserade) or Mamo (Gen 4 Chomp), but in a way that it's a threat that you should be prepared to handle along with pokes like Chandy, Mienshao, Honchkrow, Victini, and Heracross to name a few. It's just one of those things in my opinion. You can't build a succesful team if you can't handle those threats in UU and Roserade is no different. Anyway, that's just my two cents, feel free to comment on anything I've said
     
  23. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Its spiking abilities and defensive capabilities aren't particularly good in the current metagame. Defensive Roserade used to be so much better in the old, more slow-paced UU tier, but today's metagame is not kind to this set. The top 5 beat it without problem, 3/4 of the top 30 has one or more ways of dealing with Roserade, not many chances to actually set up, it gives too many save switch in to too many top threats and people are already used to play "slow" spikers. Not a bad set in overall, but it isn't what it used to be and it definitely isn't Roserade's best set

    Spikes Qwilfish is significantly better than Spikes Roserade in the current metagame; It also works well paired with Offensive Roserade, so they don't really have to compete for a team slot. I really don't think Qwilfish will drop to LU in the near future and that makes me sad.
     
  24. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Aside from the random assholes that keep using confusion based bullshit and the endless stream of hax, I like this metagame a lot. I'm not entirely sure if Roserade is too powerful at the moment, but its hasn't been too hard to keep under control. Granted, I'm running a lot of things that it can't really touch, but the team isn't terribly hindered.

    Right now, I think LO Rose is the best set, since it can weaken a lot of the special walls that give pokemon like Chandelure and Raikou trouble, while at the same time being pretty good switches for their "counters." This makes Rose a really good partner to a lot sweepers, which is really nice for my preferred teamstyle. I have yet to test the Defensive and Offensive Spiker sets, but I'm not a huge fan of using the defensive set in this metagame.

    FREE QWILFISH

    But yeah, I'm going to miss it too.
     
  25. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Don't be so sure:

    Qwilfish 4.60702 2916

    Close to drop off point.
     
  26. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    I'm aware. I said so here:
    But yes, the offensive sets are significantly better. It's great defensively on paper but in testing it just doesn't really work. I don't think this page should be discussing anything besides the offensive capabilities along with counters/checks/supporting pokes because of how bad the defensive/spiking sets are in comparison. Anyway, that's just what I think. It can go wherever it wants to but I've tested Roserade a bunch and I still can't really come up with a best set between LO and Specs.

    The LO set wears itself down rather quickly without Rest or Giga Drain. The former takes away from Roserade's coverage which it loves (if you carry Sleep Powder which is almost a must on the LO set), and the Latter is lackluster when it comes to power vs it's primary grass STAB move in Leaf Storm. Not to mention it taking damage from hazards/other moves.

    On the other hand the Specs set can almost use Giga Drain but this takes away from a wanted coverage move. It has similar problems with Rest as the LO set does. Roserade can easily have opportunites to rest up if you send it in on the right poke (ex. Blastoise), one that can't really touch it otherwise. Rest can also be a misplay in some situations. Roserade can't rest up on a majority of pokes in UU, but can threaten out a lot opening oppourtunities to rest up given you predict correctly. Rest+LO can be quite deadly if you have a favorable team match up but generally Specs and LO+Sleep Powder outshine it.
    Roserade has a perfect moveset for UU with it's primary STAB's, Shadow Ball for the ghosts, Extrasensory for the fighting types, and a Hidden Power of choice for even more coverage. Backed up by a nice 125 base Sp.A nothing offensive can switch into Roserade twice (bar Metagross), if they can live a hit.

    Offensively Roserade finds it best to be paired up with something that can take Special walls. Fighting types work well because Umbreon is almost a sure counter to Roserade. Something that can take Shaymin is in my opinion Roserade's best friend. Faster with arguably better bulk, Shaymin is the best "check" to Roserade without taking a prior hit.

    Defensively Roserade has a few choices for partners. Being able to lay down hazards is a huge plus because it makes life easier on Roserade. Roserade can cause many switches and this makes predicting easier because the counters/checks will take continuous damage every switch in. Rhyperior is one of the best options for this taking most any attack aimed at Roserade, setting up rocks, and having a nice offensive presence. Xatu is also a great option as it can take attacks from the ever-so-hated Shaymin for days, bounce back hazards, set up screens, and/or cripple faster opposing pokes with Thunder Wave.

    Counters and Check I've found:
    Shaymin, Zapdos, Togekiss, Metagross, Crobat, Umbreon, Amoongus, Victini, Arcanine, Darmanitan, Heracross, Chandelure, Flygon, Mienshao, Honchkrow (scarfed), Yanmega, Metagross, Poeygon 2, Porygon Z, Mew, Rotom-H, Tornadus, Cresselia Max speed, positive natured base 80's. I may have missed a few, and I could go more in depth but I'm afraid the post will be far too long.
     
  27. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    That actually isn't that close, things like Registeel, Porygon-Z, and Ambipom have been sitting in the high 4% for a long time without dropping.
     
  28. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Offensive Rose is BOSS. It fills up so many offensive cores that HO is really going up. Specs hits like a train and LORose is quite the sweeper.

    Defensive Spike Rose is pretty bad in this offensive format. Maybe we could test an Offensive Spiker set since it takes on all Spinners well, but I doubt it will get anywhere.
     
  29. Princess Luna

    Princess Luna Resident Pegasister

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    i actually have an offensive team with defensive double spike roserade and Exploding SR Mew

    if you can stack up a few layers (and keep your spinblocker alive) then your opponent will be wore down quite quickly since most offensive teams barring a set up sweeper need to switch to keep checks in check
     
  30. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    Why double spike? It seems like you would only really need Spikes. And It sounds like it could work. Defensive Roserade isn't bad. I just never really found a way to properly use/work it
     
  31. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa Underappreciated

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    I am surprised that Blissey got banned, it was not that broken. UU needed Blissey.

    Getting to Roserade, it is bulkier than you think, being able to take two Stone Edges from Jolly Heracross + SR with the right investment. UU needs another spiker, and Roserade offers quite a bit to the table to help out. I have seen it on PS, and although it was a bit of a pain, so was Togekiss and Heracross. I think Roserade would be a good addition to UU.

    Oh, Roserade is not as powerful as it seems:

    252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Togekiss: 129-152 (34.49 - 40.64%) -- 3.13% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Choice Specs Roserade Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 122-144 (33.51 - 39.56%) -- 90.48% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
     
  32. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit. What I meant to say was that it isn't as good as it once was, not that it isn't good this format as a whole. My main reasoning is that it isn't as bulky as it once was, although I was surprised that it survived a Scarfed Mienshao Aerial Ace can't OHKO without SR (happened to me twice. FREE KILL FTW ^_^).

    Btw, anyone ever try ScarfRose? The 90 Speed really ticks me off and maybe Modest Max Speed might be just as deadly. It'll be weaker, but a better revenge killer.
     
  33. Celebi.

    Celebi. Active Member

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    I don't think you exaggerated at all. The UU metagame has certainly changed and made the defensive a whole lot less effective but I guess with proper support you can definitely make it work. Scarf Mienshao's Aerial Ace is really only for Heracross tbh, it's generally weaker than HJK on everything else.

    I'm surpised Bliss got banned too... but this isn't about Bliss. Sp.D Togekiss loses to the Specs set after rocks (2hko guaranteed) and the LO can always counter with Sleep Powder. Modest LO also has a good chance to 2hko's after rocks.

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Roserade (+SpAtk) Sludge Bomb vs 252 HP/200 SpDef Togekiss (+SpDef) : 37.43% - 44.12%
    Entry hazards damage: 93
    After entry hazards: 233 - 258 (62.3% - 68.98%)
    2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Registeel on the other hand is a reliable check. This is also due to the fact that HP Fire isn't Roserade's favorite coverage move when running specs.
     
  34. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    I've used 4 sets for Roserade, those being Defensive Spiker, Life Orb, Specs and Offensive Spiker. Here is my analysis on the 4 of them. I've still yet to try out ScarfRade out though, so my judgement here is not final.

    Defensive Spiker is among one of the best sets if you have the correct support. It can easily take non-super effective special hits and proceed to set up Spikes. With its attack still being very good, it can also perform the role of a special tank quite well also, with fairly decent coverage in Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb and good speed for a wall, although Poison and Steel types still give it trouble. Rest is also a great move for reliable recovery, but it's quite easy to predict a switch so play your cards right with this one. I'd recommend partnering it with Slowbro for a decent defensive core, as Slowbro can take on the poison and steel types that trouble Roserade whilst Rade can take the Electric and Grass moves thrown at Slowbro. This set is one of my favourites, as you do get chances to stack spikes even in this offensively orientated metagame against some special attackers. It also beats all of the common rapid spinners in the metagame, especially Blastoise, the most common one, as it can take anything and hit it for SE damage. Most physical threats will send Roserade packing though, so make sure you have stuff to take the hits. Thumbs Up

    Next up is Life Orb. I've got to be honest, I'm quite disappointed in this set. It can still hit a lot of pokemon very hard with a lot of strong moves and it has fairly good coverage, whilst also allowing you to switch moves, but your opponent is just going to switch in a check or counter anyway, so what's the point? It's not a good sweeper in my personal opinion due to its average speed and lack of set-up moves to perform the sweep. It misses out on a fair few OHKO's and 2HKO's, and it also takes recoil damage, making it even easier to take you down. LO Rade does get Rest though to recover from the recoil damage, but it's quite tough to find an opportunity to do so and you still get worn down too often. Leaf Storm also cuts your sweeping ability in half, and it forces you to use hit and run tactics, something the Specs set allows you to do much better. There are a lot of Pokes that can take on this set quite easily, whether it be checking (any scarfer, anything above base 90) or countering (Steels, Snorlax, Umbreon). You're much better off with a special sweeper with more speed or set-up moves, and the Specs set is better for power. If you really want to use this set, run it with a strong physical attacker like Metagross, which helps negate some of its weaknesses. Thumbs Down

    Now onto the Specs set. This thing serves as an immense wallbreaker, with the ability to 2HKO Snorlax after Rocks. Unlike the LO set, it also does not miss out on those crucial OHKO's or 2HKO's. Leaf Storm is great as a hit and run move, with more power than the LO set and also no recoil, and it still has the decent coverage that the other sets do. It can even run Rest to recover, something that is rarely seen on Choiced Mons, although the switch out is blatantly obvious. Again, Metagross is a good partner, preferably banded so you can break some walls together. In my personal opinion, this is the best Roserade set due to its sheer power and difficulty to properly counter, whereas LO hits can be sponged somewhat. It also encourages hit and run, unlike the LO set and it fulfills its job well. This is the set that I personally recommend to you all if you're looking for an offensive Roserade without Spikes. It's still fairly easy to check, but it's not completely designated to sweep, so it's not as crippling as it is towards the LO set. Thumbs Up

    And finally, the Offensive Spiker. This set is fairly similar to the LO Roserade set except that is not focused on sweeping but instead on stacking spikes. This is more like it. It stills has the advantages that LO Roserade brings, apart from the immensely powerful Leaf Storm, but it also gets a chance to stack spikes quick and effectively. This set is arguably better at defeating Rapid Spinners, although it can take less hits, which is a huge drawback, and it can also be checked easily. Overall, it's not as good as Specs and Defensive Spiker, but it's better than Life Orb imo. Thumbs in the Middle.

    I've still got to try and use Scarf Rade, but at the moment, I'm leaning Not Broken. Roserade is a great Pokemon in the tier, and it serves more than one purpose, but there are ways to beat it both offensively and defensively. Leaf Storm can be played around because of 7 resistances , and there are a multitude of ways to go about beating every set. I'll make a more detailed analysis on Roserade as a whole once I've done trying out the scarf set.
     
  35. benjgbro

    benjgbro New Member

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    NAE BANN DA ROSERADE

    I've tried Roserade, and I think it shouldn't be banned, because of base 90 speed. Also without Roserade, stall teams would most likely have a lot more trouble with Rhyperior and Swampert, and it is useful for getting rid of Toxic spikes. Qwilfish could be used as well, but it is weaker and cannot deal with Swampert unless switching in on it for intimidate. I don't think its broken, and Crobat counters it easily as well as the common Scarf, Specs and especially the rarer Sub Chandelure. When Roserade has a Special attack drop from Leaf Storm, its easy to come in with a pokemon that resists it or a bulky pokemon which affects it 1x and use a set up move or get a sub, such as Heracross, Togekiss, Metagross, Sigilyph or Reuniclus. Grass is weak to a lot, and a lot resists it. Anything with Sap Sipper (which admittedly is rare) counters it if it tries to Leaf Storm. Personally I use double spiker set, and I'm going to try a Specs set as well. It is easy to switch after 1 Leaf storm though, and predict a resist pokemon. I think that it isn't broken, but its a good pokemon. Shaymin would probably take over as the main grass type in UU if Roserade goes, and also Ferroseed can still use lots of Spikes and Stealth rock if Roserade is moved out of the tier. It would be a loss for the tier if Roserade goes, but I think that it would cope. Also Roserade, if it moved to OU, would be severely outclassed by Venusaur for offense (In the sun anyway) and Ferrothorn for defense.

    All in all

    :mad: NAE BANN DA ROSERADE :mad:
     
  36. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic It's no use!

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    Roserade is definitely not broken in today's metagame. The last I recall, Roserade was banned in BW1. Obviously the metagame must have changed vastly since then.

    Firstly, there comes the existence of Heracross. Scarf Heracross is able to OHKO with Megahorn and 2HKO with Close Combat(It's Not very effective!). Mienshao can OHKO with extra spikes +SR residual damage with Hi Jump Kick, which should not be effective against Roserade either. Roserade being able to get KO'd easily by neutral hits and even powerful physical attackers' resisted hits shows its weakness in Physical bulkiness. The offensively paced metagame of today gives Roserade a fair fighting ground and it has to keep up with the multiple new threats that have been brought in from BW2.

    I don't deny that Roserade is a great sweeper, it is very useful against the still-unchanged crappy spinners in UU, as it can single handedly defeat Blastoise, Claydol and even Hitmontop 1v1 while laying Spikes. However, now there are much more scarier and common pokemon that can force Roserade out, for example Crobat which has risen in usage, and it is important to note that Roserade does not get as many switch in opportunties as it did in the past.

    Therefore with it being "Just above average" in today's metagame in my opinion Roserade is most likely getting a "Not Broken" Verdict.


    Just my 6 cents
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2013
  37. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Well, there really isn't a point mentioning what it would be like in OU because it would go to BL, which is more of the UU banlist. It can be not used at all in OU but still be banned from UU.

    From my endless testing of SpecsRose, I can say that it is really, really good, but not broken. Leaf Storm and Sludge Bomb makes it one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, giving a free kill at the right moment. But, let's face it, Specs doesn't make anything broken, just better. It is possible to revenge kill, it doesn't outspeed or KO the universe, and it still requires assistance in order to be effective. Not saying it isn't good, just could be a lot better.

    Don't say Life Orb is broken because Fegelein said it all. 90 Speed and -don't defend this- crap defense doesn't cut it, the two power moves are resisted easily (one of which being Leaf Storm which means predictable switch), and Sleep Powder on Roserade is overrated imo (you can't set up on something you want asleep anyway). It also loses on A LOT of KOs.
     
  38. 1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs

    1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs New Member

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    LMAO. That's terrible reasoning to not ban something. I suppose you want to unban Kyurem-B because it can be revenge killed the same way? lol
     
  39. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic It's no use!

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    Can Kyurem-B OHKO revenge Heracross? Yes. Can Roserade OHKO revenge Heracross? No.

    Your argument is invalid.

    I'll edit my former post for clarity.
     
  40. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Last I checked, Roserade didn't have the stupid stats Kyurem-B had or Supernuke- I mean STAB Outrage.

    Onto what I was originally going to post about, Roserade is fine in this format because there is nothing that proves it overpowered as of now. The Spikes set got a bit nerfed this format due to the higher offense but is still effective and offensive sets are just standard offensive sets. Unlike Scarf Kyurem-B which was virtually IMPOSSIBLE to beat without another Scarf user, Rose can be revenge killed without an absurd amount of difficulty.

    Also, in a place where physical attacking is high, I find it interesting that we retest a special sweeper/Spiker. Unlike OU where we have a list of them, UU doesn't have that many, most common sweepers being Raikou, Chandelure, and Zapdos, and Spikers being rather few.

    Roserade is fair in UU and, to be honest, I think it makes it a better place despite it adding more aggression.
     
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