Bulbasaur, GO!

Discussion in 'News' started by coyotte508, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Boycotts work on the principle of not buying products so the company is forced to do what you want them to. Because PO is free, a boycott would not work.
     
  2. N8theGr8

    N8theGr8 Member

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    Hm...I have to say, I was really angry when I saw that this would be cancelled. I mean, after letting us test out all of the new Pokes and everything being next to released...this just seems a bit...grrr.

    However, as some said, it is not my decision; I did not help program in any way. I was a happy user, and I just feel that taking something away that was nearly complete is a bit...strange. If it is for reasons to avoid being sued...well, I just doubt Nintendo would sue a group that is using Pokemon for a completely different reason than what the games are used for. But, it is your choice, and I cannot say that I will leave this; as I have grown fond of it and it's astounding speed of growth.
     
  3. Bug Maniac Marc

    Bug Maniac Marc New Member

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    Boycotting can also refer to the abstaining from use of a product. I'm not so sure what coyotte would do if
    such a thing happened, though there's no real way to find out, given how impossible a task it would be.
     
  4. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Yes, with such a large userbase, such a given task is close to, if not, impossible. Even if it was attempted, I doubt it would change anyones mind about the decision made.
     
  5. Drixiss

    Drixiss New Member

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    inversely, I don't care about gen 5 at all and cannot wait to play gen 1. When will it be up and running?
     
  6. coyotte508

    coyotte508 Well-Known Member Administrator Server Owner Administrator Server Owner

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    It will take a bit of time, considering gen 1 and 2 use different structures than gen 3 and further. Especially for gen 1, I'm probably going to make a whole new battle engine as a lot of things are completely different. Gen 2 might still have some things in common with the gen 3+ battle structures, even if it uses 3 or so items and has no ability.

    If I'd have to make a wild guess, you can expect it for january. Of course it could be done in only one month, but lately I've been doing too much programming for my taste =)

    Don't worry though, i guarantee it'll be there at least before the BW release.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  7. Drixiss

    Drixiss New Member

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    Alright, sounds awesome. Although this thread probably ruined a lot of people's days, it definitely made mine better. I literally can't wait.
     
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Member

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    All I can say is that I'm mad. Not about you shutting down client, but because you lied to us about the logic bomb.

    and you even have the gall to post an OP topic like that?
    (I've played RBY thanks, no need to recount the intro)
     
  9. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension New Member

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    ... i can't believe this.

    This, honestly, has ruined my day. Really Gamefreak? REALLY? You have a horde of fucking FANSITES giving you FREE ADVERTISEMENT OF GEN 5 and YOU FUCKING BANHAMMER THEM. These idiots don't even know basic econ (yes, piracy is good for business: it's basically having people spread the word for free, rather than paying TV channels for ads..., and to be honest, piracy, especially in this form of FANSITES and SIMULATORS will urge the people on serebii/bulba/PO to buy it more).

    Tldr: Fuck you Gamefreak.

    Sorry for the rant...

    Also, Coyotte, if it happens that gamefreak realizes its stupidity, will you reopen gen 5?

    I was so excited...
    and now...
    i just don't know...

    blah

    gamefreak hates you and everything you stand for.

    P.S. DOES ERUPTION SOUND QUIET TO YOU?!?!?! (Eruption Heatran)
     
  10. Cease Tick

    Cease Tick New Member

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    What are the benefits of you arbitrarily denying us access to gen 5? Because you and especially Darkness kept saying how this decision was the best for us. I'm certainly interested in hearing how not being able to play competitive gen 5 is going to be so much better than being able to easily play competitive gen 5. I was also wondering how you know what is best for the entire community of Pokemon Online players, most of whom you have never met or even spoken to, better than they do.

    I say arbitrarily because no one has given any good reason for the removal of 5th gen. Is it because you want us to play the "real games"? If it is, then this doesn't help anything at all. It certainly doesn't give us access to the games any sooner. The only thing it does is advocate us downloading illegal ROMs. I was totally happy with the simulator as it was, but if I won't have access to any 5th gen battling until spring then I'll probably get a ROM just to hold me over until a working simulator is out.

    This brings me to another point. For a lot of your community, competitive battling IS the real "magic" of a new pokemon game. The massive amount of new additions and the total change in the metagame is the real draw, and the in-game features are just a bonus. People that were primarily interested in the "real game" have, for the most part, already imported or downloaded ROMs.

    But maybe that's not the reason that you took the server down. Maybe you were worried about competition with Pokemon Lab. But if that were the case, then having a working 5th gen months before any other simulator would be your biggest advantage. Besides, there's no reason that you have to compete with them anyway because you are both free software. So that doesn't make sense.

    Legal issues with Game Freak / Nintendo is definitely not something to worry about. Shoddy Battle existed for years, and NetBattle was around before that. Nintendo never came after them. And the only reason Nintendo came after Serebii and some other sites was because they were using sprites ripped from a ROM before the game was even released, so that doesn't make sense.

    Maybe you just don't want to work on it anymore? But wait, this contradicts what you said in the first post. You said that you decided long before the implementation of gen 5 was finished that you didn't want for it to be available until after the US release. Yet you continued to work on it until it was almost 100% complete, and then took it away. If you were "just tired", you would have stopped right then. Furthermore, if you were "just tired", then you could have easily passed the job on to your community that was already working on it so hard and had them finish it. This explanation doesn't make sense either.

    Maybe you wanted to focus more on other metagames, such as first gen battling, and you were afraid that the fancy new feature might distract everyone from working on it for you? It seems to me that if 5th gen was implemented then in the surge of new users that you would probably get at least enough to work on what you want for the simulator. Besides, this still doesn't explain why you would wait until 5th gen was almost finished to tell us this, or why you would mark the time of the English release of B/W as particularly important for your goals.

    Maybe it's something deeper than any of these explanations. Maybe you don't feel that we as a community deserve it? If this is the case, then what behavior in the community are you basing this judgement off of? Why haven't you mentioned this before? Are you sure that everyone in the community is responsible, including the people that spent so much time and energy to make this simulator work (and if no, why would simple bans not be effective)? How does taking away 5th gen help with this problem? On top of all these questions that would need answering, this still wouldn't explain why you even began working on 5th gen in the first place, if it's true that you had the intention of neglecting to implement it from the beginning.

    In a quick summary:
    There are no drawbacks to us (the community) having a working 5th gen, and no benefits for us for not having one. Meanwhile, by losing 5th gen we suffer a great loss.

    You suffer no drawbacks from implementing the almost fully functional 5th gen, and gain nothing by refusing to implement it.

    I really can't think of any reason for you to pull 5th gen off the client. You haven't provided any valid justification for your actions, so your motive appears to be arbitrary. And that hurts us a lot.

    Regardless of your motive, you still don't have an explanation for why you did things the way you did. You intentionally lied to and manipulated your entire community in order to gain full control of a software you're distributing freely, in order to keep everyone away from a feature that you're creating for them to use? That doesn't make sense at all. If you weren't planning on implementing it until after the US release of B/W, then why did you finish it now and give almost everyone a chance to play it instead of not work on it at all? Lying to us like that really hurts our trust in you as a developer and as a leader. That seems like quite a waste of time. It's also really disrespectful to the people that spent so much time getting this simulator to work. How do you think they feel being left in the dark like that? Do you think that they still want to work with you, when you might take all of their hard work and throw it all away?

    If you'd like to explain yourself, feel free. I'm sure many of us are waiting to hear what you have to say. Because as it stands, your motives are poorly justified and the process by which you carried them out is hurtful and uncalled for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  11. Galblade

    Galblade FAT PRINCESS

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    I'm feeling mixed emotions. First I felt angry, then dissapointed. Then sad as I realised I'll have to give up pokemon until you guys change your mind or until spring/autumn (here down under). I was really getting used to the new mechanics and the absolute difference in terms of variety that was a massive improvement over the gen 4 gameplay that is happening at this time. When gen 5 was first announced I was about at wits end with all the extremely common pokemon being on each team (heatran/Celebi/Jirachi/Scizor etc). Looks like I'll have to struggle through a ROM of a language I don't understand, though they've already got an english patch for the pokemon and moves so I should be right for now. I'll pop by occaisonally to see how you guys are doin but I will not participate in the extremely stale gen 4 battling scene.

    Good day to you sir.
     
  12. Mr. Whiscash

    Mr. Whiscash New Member

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    ...You know what?
    I'm okay with this.
     
  13. UltiMario

    UltiMario New Member

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    Well, after 103-ish hours on White, with virtually only the Battle Subway as my last feasibly possible goal.... I was sorta hoping to really get the the competitive aspect of the game by now, and I don't really want to Pokesav a new team... or spend another 100 hours to completely restart the game to get legendaries I've already caught to get perfect natures and IVs, as well as another 50 hours to build a proper team... that could be completely worthless to just guessing for the new metagame...

    :/
     
  14. Mashew18

    Mashew18 New Member

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    wellll... Im very upset with this... I mean you let us play it and all that and Im grateful but why take it away to work on gen 1 battling when you have this basically done? i mean come on.... the community mainly wants it it seems and it would be easier then having to work on Gen 1 battling....
     
  15. ULTRA!£PIC

    ULTRA!£PIC New Member

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    I'm mad about the 5th gen stuff >:( but I' sort excited for the 1st gen stuff :]
     
  16. ULTRA!£PIC

    ULTRA!£PIC New Member

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    I agree but why not have some fun while we wait??
     
  17. destinybond

    destinybond Server Staff

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    Cease Tick has IMHO, the most thought out post in this thread, and I feel if coyotte responds to his post, then people would be able to understand the reasons behind the action. I know DN said "just trust us" but that is obviouslynot good enough for the community.
     
  18. Bug Maniac Marc

    Bug Maniac Marc New Member

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    If coyotte can provide us with an adequate response to cease tick's post,
    I, and I assume others, will be much more satisfied
     
  19. N8theGr8

    N8theGr8 Member

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    Well, you can't use trust as a factor after deliberately lying about a logic bomb. That's not fair to us. Although I definitely agree, CeaseTick's points all seem more than valid and deserve a reply.
     
  20. Anonji

    Anonji New Member

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    this. also, for some two cents:

    The lie was pretty ridiculous, and I called it and backed up the server I was running onto my thumbdrive. I don't intend to use the outdated server software for anything, but the point remains; I mean, a logic bomb introduced into a Pokemon simulator? The only reason anyone would believe something so far-fetched is because everyone trusts the admins. That trust is pretty much what keeps anyone of value testing for you guys, and acting all tall and saying that this decision is "right for us" isn't going to do you guys any favors. 5th gen's cool and all, but the trust that ties the staff and some of the more loyal community together. i would not be surprised if half of the community ditched because of this. 4th gen is overdone and tripe to a lot of us, and honestly, i wouldn't be surprised if the lie about something as potentially destructive as a machine-wrecking logic bomb pissed off even more people and maybe a few staff members into leaving as well.

    i hope for the best, but as serebii is now allowed to post the pictures, there should be no legal issues with game freak. it sucks that we can't play with gen 5, but it sucks even more that you lied directly to us about something potentially computer-destroying just to get us to delete some clients that you couldn't hide well enough.
     
  21. Uroboro

    Uroboro New Member

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    Time For some HYPER BEAM ON EVERYTHING
     
  22. cobaph

    cobaph New Member

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    Obviously not knowing about the logic bomb, I don't really understand much of what's going on except that the server is down until the US release. I'm not too screwed, since I could just WiFi, but I am curious as to what's going on and what the reason behind this was. We're not all irrational idiots who want to whine until we get Gen V simulators back up. Some of us are just plain and simply curious.
     
  23. Picklesword

    Picklesword Member

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    I think a lot of stuff, but one thing I think is people trying to mooch off coyotte's work and everything he has put into this. Seriously, you want your 5th gen, go actually buy the game. It has random battles online that you can fight as many people as you want. I've been doing it and working on breeding for my IV's on my white version already.
     
  24. ULTRA!£PIC

    ULTRA!£PIC New Member

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    how did you get the moving pics?
     
  25. Well, since you're implementing the first gen Pokemon and such, I hope you make sure to implement all of these features to stay true to the game like your original intention says.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. blade12

    blade12 New Member

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    i like that we got to see the moves and pokemon but i dont get y u wont let us play with pokemon from white and black til spring 2011
     
  27. Uroboro

    Uroboro New Member

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    it comes out in spring.....
    Also people are just mad, it will blow over
     
  28. blade12

    blade12 New Member

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    sorry wrong fourm it i dont know how to delete it nvm it is the right fourm didnt know i was on page 2
     
  29. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    I was going to write out a response to this, but now I want to wait until either DN or Coyotte respond to Cease Tick. I know I'm basically repeating people now, but seriously, just a short response to his post would make me happy, and would most likely help other people understand why you did this.
     
  30. Cease Tick

    Cease Tick New Member

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    We aren't trying to "mooch off" of him. We're confused because he spent a lot of time to complete this 5th gen and it got hyped up quite a bit, and now he's putting all of that work to waste and not letting us use the feature he designed for us for... no reason, so far. He won't even let other people use 5th gen code they've gotten in various ways on their own servers; he's shutting them down. Our big question is why he went so far to design a working 5th gen simulator when he didn't want anyone using it in the first place. We're also upset because he lied to us about a logic bomb.
    Playing in-game is not the same as using a simulator. In a simulator you can easily test a large variety of teams in a very short amount of time against players that are much more likely to be competitive. Battles are much faster and easier to find, and are more likely to be good. You also don't have to breed or anything, which takes up an enormous amount of time that most players don't have.


    Edit: Alice Moonlight is a confirmed /tr/ainer, lol.
     
  31. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

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    PO Trainer Name:
    B. Rizzo
    I lol'd, you two should've just been honest. Plus, it would've made more sense to wait until US version were released anyway so that minor things like move names, Pokemon names and other minor information were implemented in English, and people wouldn't be lost in translation. However, to see that so many people here are bawing their eyes out over this shit is fucking retarded. Do you think that Coyote, and Darkness want a cease and desist notice from Game Freak? Hell, they might get even worse than that if word spread to them, you all could have potentially kissed this simulator good bye. Thus, wasting countless hours of input and development. This wasn't even worth the huge wall of text I passed through from some of these posts, smh...

    tl:dr

    Yeah it was wrong to lie, but either way this had to be done to avoid legal trouble. Some of the users here need to grow up, because Generation 5 PO is still going to come out, and if Coyote wants to devout more time into improving the simulator itself during the meantime, then more power to him. Hell if I had to lie to everybody to make sure my pet project was safe, as well as avoiding what could potentially be a multi-million dollar lawsuit for copyright infringement, shit I would've done it sooner.
     
  32. missingno

    missingno New Member

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    If you'd come out and said this from the beginning, I could've respected that decision. But lying and causing a malware panic? You should be ashamed of that behavior.
     
  33. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

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    Dude as developers, I don't think that they really give a damn about "respect". I agree that they should've been honest at first, but honestly, I would do the same to avoid a potential lawsuit tbh.
     
  34. Laccard

    Laccard New Member

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    Are you implying it's morally right to cause a malware panic to avoid a fucking lawsuit? Broseph, that isn't acceptable.
     
  35. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

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    By no means, hence why I said that they should of been honest; but i'm saying this with the assumption that they had no choice but to do what they did under these circumstances.
     
  36. waterbottle

    waterbottle Member

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    No lawsuit was coming.
     
  37. B. Rizzo

    B. Rizzo A relic of the past, given new life.

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    I said potential lawsuit, and then I started speaking of a hypothetical instance about how a lawsuit could harm this establishment as a whole. As well as debunking the supposed morality of it all.
     
  38. Seraphic

    Seraphic New Member

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    There was no logical reason to believe there would be any legal trouble, which is why everyone in this thread mad
     
  39. badalcristiano

    badalcristiano Member

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    My feelings. I am sure you have good enough reasons to do so and I respect your desicion, but I'm sure there could've been a better way out rather than the Logic Bomb Scam
     
  40. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    B. Rizzo, there was no threat of a lawsuit at all. There wasn't even a slim possibility of one, since no profit is being made off of this simulator. Which is one reason why people are flipping out over this.
     
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