[BW2] [LC Ubers] A Guide to Weather (somebody needs to make an LC Ubers tag...)

Discussion in 'Past Gens Discussion' started by Rioku, Jul 5, 2013.

  1. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    This is an expansion of the guide to weather I created for my LC Ubers RMT. I'm just trying to expand the metagame.

    Welcome to LC Ubers. While I may not be an expert at LC Ubers, I will try my best to explain the meta, and introduce players to the big little tier. I bet many of you are wondering what makes LC Ubers so different than LC. LC Ubers is about as different from LC as OU is from UU. In short, it has weather. LC Ubers is possibly the most interesting weather based meta in existence. Pretty much all gimmicky non-rain based abilities are viable, and not out classed (like in ubers). The only ability ban in LC Ubers is moody, so trollish abilities such as sand veil are completely viable. LC Ubers plays in a similar way to both Ubers and OU. The largest difference in the play styles is that rain is not that viable. There is no rain man in LC Ubers. The most dominant forms of weather in LC Ubers are: sand, sun, and hail.​

    Sand:

    Sand teams can be played both offensively and defensively. The only sand starter in the tier is Hippopotas, which can be played almost the exact same way as Hippowdon. Sand teams will often abuse abilities such as sand rush and sand veil. Drilbur can be played using the exact same move set as its counterpart Excadrill uses in Ubers. Gligar, however, is very different from Gliscor. While Gligar still runs the same type of move set, it can abuse sand veil and bright powder to make moves with 100% accuracy have less than 70% when used against it. Offensive sand teams typically have Pokémon such as Drilbur and Turtle, while defensive sand teams commonly run Gligar, and even Onix. I've found sand most weak to hail teams. I think that the strength of LC Ubers sand lies in balance.

    Threats:

    Excadrill (Drilbur) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor/Night Slash/Rapid Spin

    Drilbur is essentially the Excadrill of the metagame. Drillbur is a very powerful sweeper, and can even speed tie a scarf Sneasel when running jolly.

    Lugia (Gligar) (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 156 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Aerial Ace

    This is Gligar's wall set. Gligar is an extremely good wall, and sand veil is just plain hilarious.

    Lugia (Gligar) (F) @ BrightPowder
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 156 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake

    This is Gligar's Offensive set. Gligar can bring all moves with 100% accuracy down to a level below focus miss. This Gligar can out speed the common 17 speed mons.

    Onix (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 236 HP / 36 Def / 236 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Rock Blast

    This Onix has so much bulk in sand that it laughs at Ferroseed. Onix has more than enough natural physical bulk, but when given special investment, and but in sand, he can become an extremely powerful special wall.

    Arceus (Tirtouga) (M) @ Berry Juice
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 212 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SDef / 180 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Stone Edge
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet

    Turtle is a good sand pokemon. It fits best on sand teams due to its typing.

    Lugia (Gligar) (F) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute/Stone Edge

    Acrobatics Gligar can pack a good punch, and is a very good fighter counter. (not sure if I got this set right. I'm unfamiliar with it)[/HIDE]

    Checks and Counters:

    Snover (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 116 HP / 196 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Snover can OHKO Drilbur and Gligar, as well as end Turtle and Onix with giga drain and hail.

    Weavile (Sneasel) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 236 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Shard
    - Fake Out
    - Pursuit

    Big problem for all sand teams. Priority can out speed and end Drilbur. Ice and fighting moves take care of the rest.


    Tangela (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sleep Powder

    I forgot about Tangela, but yeah its Bellsprout... but worse...

    [/HIDE]

    Sun:

    Sun teams find their strength in offense. The only weather starter for sun is Vulpix, which is played much like Ninetails. Sun teams almost always have a chlorophyll user, such as Tengela. Tengela can be played using a very similar move set to Venusaur in OU. Growth sweepers are just as viable here as they are in all other tiers. Ponyta is a common LC threat that has a very nice nitch in LC Ubers. Ponyta's flare blitz in sun is one of the most powerful moves in the tier. Ponyta can also be a very effective counter to opposing sun team with its flash fire ability. Typically sun has a hard time with sand teams, but if sun is up it has no real weaknesses and, in my opinion, is the most solid offensive play style in LC Ubers. I don't have as much experience with sun as I do sand.

    Threats:

    Tangela (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sleep Powder

    Taangela>All Other Chlorophyll Users

    Tangela (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 156 Def / 196 SDef / 120 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    The sub seed set works on Tengela because of its bulk. Hidden power fire unfortunately prevents Tengela from reaching 17 special attack. HP investment is another viable option.

    Vulpix @ Eviolite
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp

    The weather starter can deal pretty good damage against the tier. It also has decent bulk.


    Exeggcute (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 116 HP / 196 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - SolarBeam
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Exeggcute can run a highly efficient choice specs set in sun. While it doesn't have access to growth like Tengela, its secondary typing provides a stab move with eggcelent coverage.

    Bellsprout (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SAtk / 40 SDef / 196 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpDef)
    - Growth / Sleep Powder
    - Seed Bomb
    - Weather Ball
    - Sucker Punch / Sludge Bomb

    Bellsprout is one of the weaker of the Chlorophyll users, yet it has a nice nitch. It is the only Chlorophyll user with sucker punch, which, when coupled with growth, can easily beat the ghosts of the tier, and revenge a Sneasel.

    Bellsprout (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 36 HP / 200 SAtk / 36 SDef / 200 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - SolarBeam/Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sleep Powder

    Belsprout can also use an all out attacking set. Its sun-boosted 28 speed can out speed most threats.

    Oddish (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 76 HP / 236 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Sleep Powder
    - Sludge Bomb
    - SolarBeam

    Oddish is a tad slow, but can make use of powerful stab moves.

    Ponyta (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 36 HP / 240 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wild Charge
    - Flare Blitz
    - Flame Charge
    - Return

    sun boosted flare blitz hurts... a lot... Wild charge can be used against water types, and flame charge can be used to increase Ponyta's speed to make it a dangerous sweeper that even out speeds Scarf Sneasel after two flame charges.

    Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 76 HP / 196 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Flamethrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Sucker Punch
    - Overheat

    Houndour is a good wall breaker in sun. 18 special attack and overheat boosted to over 300 base power make Houndour pack a royal punch.[/HIDE]

    Checks and Counters:

    Ponyta (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 36 HP / 240 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wild Charge
    - Flare Blitz
    - Flame Charge
    - Return

    Oddly one of the best sun Pokémon is one of sun's best counters. Ponyta is immune to fire and can shrug off most hits from chlorophyll users, making it an excellent sun counter.

    Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 76 HP / 196 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Flamethrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Sucker Punch
    - Overheat

    Houndour is much the same as Ponyta, but a little less effective, its still a good ghost counter.

    Lugia (Gligar) (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 156 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Aerial Ace

    This Gligar packs enough defense to tank hits from fire types, and it can take care of chlorophyll users with stab aerial ace.

    Lugia (Gligar) (F) @ BrightPowder
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 76 HP / 236 Atk / 156 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake

    Gimickgar can handle sun teams even better. It can live most hits from Chlorophyll users before growth and deal large damage with earthquake. Rockslide handles fire types very well.

    Yanma (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 240 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Air Slash
    - Bug Buzz
    - Protect

    This Yanma can handle sun teams quite well. Protect allows it to get the speed to out speed chlorophyll users, and air slash handles Bulbasaur and Bellsprout, while bug buzz takes out Exeggcute. HP ground/rock takes out the fire types.[/HIDE]

    Hail:

    Hail teams would seem to fit stall better in LC Ubers. Snover is the hail starter, and is a very powerful offensive threat. Hail complements defensive threats such as Porygon quite well, as well as breaking sash users and sturdy users such as Turtle. A good hail Pokémon that has been banished to LC Ubers is Sneasel. Sneasel is the fastest Pokémon in the tier and can be a huge threat to all teams. It can run a good sash set in hail, and wouldn't have to worry about opposing hail sash breakers. Still, I would imagine that more Pokémon would be defensive on a hail team, as there is only one common sash user that resists hail. Hail is typically weak to sun, thus completing the little weather triangle of LC Ubers. My experience with hail teams is very limited.

    Threats:

    Weavile (Sneasel) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 236 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brick Break
    - Ice Shard
    - Fake Out
    - Pursuit

    Hail complements Sneasel, by breaking opposing sash users, and not breaking its own.

    Snover (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 116 HP / 196 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Shard
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Hail makes the hail starter become a much larger threat than without. 100% accuracy blizzard is an amazing way to make dents in almost every team.

    Porygon @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Tri Attack
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunder Wave

    Hail really helps tanky Pokémon with an instant recovery by gradually wearing down opponents, while tanky Pokémon can just heal off the damage. This works for other Pokémon such as Munchlax, and even Hippopotas.[/HIDE]

    Checks and Counters:

    Mienfoo (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Drain Punch
    - U-turn

    Mienfoo is a good counter to hail because it can effectively remove hail by easily defeating Snover. It is also 4x strong against Sneasel, and can break many of the hail walls.

    Arceus (Tirtouga) (M) @ Berry Juice
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 212 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SDef / 180 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Stone Edge
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake

    Turtle can do a number on most hail teams. Stone edge can beat the ice types, and it can shell smash all over everything.

    Ponyta (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 36 HP / 240 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wild Charge
    - Flare Blitz
    - Flame Charge
    - Return

    Ponyta can deal good damage to hail teams by dispatching the hail starter and allowing for the sun setter to come in. Houndour and Vulpix can both do this too, but I've been typing all day so I'm done for now.[/HIDE]
    If anyone has any more builds and stuff they would like to add please do. I will add pictures at a later date.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  2. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Guide about LC Ubers Weather without a mention of the best sweeper in the tier? Nonsense


    Tangela (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sleep Powder

    There isn't much more needed to say, beats almost everything the tier can throw at it.

    I also feel like throwing it out there that the following is an a great vulpix set. It can't touch houndoor but it does really well vs other things.

    Vulpix @ Eviolite
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Substitute
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp
     
  3. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I cant believe I forgot Tangela... I feel so dumb. You aren't the first person to mention Vulpix. I guess I just got lazy :)
     
  4. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Why is AcroGar not mentioned, but the gimmicky Brightpower set is? It so much better than Brightpowder.
     
  5. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    I'm not the best LC Ubers player in the world, and the acrobatics set didn't come to mind, it's a very good Mienfoo counter, so I'll add it. Thanks! :) (Not to sure on the moveset but ill give it my best shot)
     
  6. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    You can't use Bulbasaur with Chlorophyll because it's illegal.
     
  7. 1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs

    1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs New Member

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    Yeah, oddish and bellsprout outclass it anyway. Mention those instead.

    an all-out attacker set with

    @Life Orb
    -SolarBeam / Giga Drain
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Hidden Power [Fire]
    -Sleep Powder

    is like the best thing.

    I think SubSeed could work too, but idk.

    @Eviolite
    -Substitute
    -Leech Seed
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Sleep Powder / Giga Drain
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2013
  8. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Thanks Arte I didn't know that. Most of this information I've gotten has been from various websites and things.

    I will add those sets Spirited Away. The sub seed set makes more since for Tengela to use because of its higher amount of bulk. I guess its a viable option on the other chlorophyll users but it just seemed to work best on Tengela, heck what do I know.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  9. Artemisa

    Artemisa Well-Known Member

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    Some of the sets you posted aren't that good.

    Sand Edits:
    Remove Onix
    Take out Earthquake on Tirt and add Aqua Jet.
    The sub Toxic is good. Eviolite is kinda better imo, but it's really up to the player.
    Sword Dance set should be Sword Dance / Acrobatics / Earthquake / Sub @Flying Gem
    Drilbur take out Rapid Spin and add X-Scissors or Night Slash. Will edit this for other weathers.
     
  10. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Acrobatics Gligar runs Swords Dance, Acrobatics, Earthquake, and either a coverage move like Stone Edge or Substitute.
     
  11. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    Thanks I didn't know the set.
     
  12. 1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs

    1bigroomfullofbadfemaledogs New Member

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    Just saying, you shouldn't ignore my post seeing as how you have no idea what you're even talking about. You should add oddish in there or at the very least change that god awful bellsprout set to the one I mentioned earlier.
     
  13. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    Bellsprout would be better off using its physically offensive / mixed options if it wants to attempt a sweep.

    Bellsprout (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SAtk / 40 SDef / 196 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) / Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpDef)
    - Growth / Sleep Powder
    - Seed Bomb
    - Weather Ball
    - Sucker Punch / Sludge Bomb

    Sucker Punch is important for taking out Sash Sneasel before it can use Ice Shard and against other priority moves that can really ruin Bellsprout. Seed Bomb is a great STAB move either way. Weather Ball hits Scyther, and it semi-useful in other weathers too. Its much more powerful than Hidden Power either way. Sludge Bomb is great if you have something on the team that can take care of the 9001 Priority users in LC Ubers.

    If I wanted to use a solely special attacking set, I'd just use Oddish who has better bulk and higher SpAtk.
     
  14. Rioku

    Rioku Not again.

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    You guys are right I really don't know much about sun at all. My sun teams are horrible. I made this when smogon was down so I couldn't find good sets for most of these Pokémon so I just went with ones that had worked for me. I'm adding all the sets mentioned.

    But arte I like Onix in sand it has defenses in the 30s. And what is that eviolite set that you prefer over sub toxic. I don't want to mess up another set.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013