[BW2] July and August Wifi UU Tier / Potential Suspect Discusson

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU' started by NAVIDAD PIRATE, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    MeowMix
    Wifi UU tier leaders: Hikari, MeowMix, ThatisWhatSheSaid

    Tier changes:

    From OU to UU
    Nothing

    From UU to OU
    Nothing

    From UU to LU
    Claydol
    Mismagius
    Tornadus

    From LU to UU

    Golurk

    For those of you who have been living under a rock, I'm now the co-leader of UU along with Hikari and TIWSS, so expect even less shit to get done than usual.

    Not gonna lie, this stage is shaping up to be more of the same from the last couple of months. OU gave us nothing and the usage stats seem to imply that besides Jolteon and Dugtrio (both of whom have already been UU at various points), we likely won't get any major drops for the rest of this generation, which means nobody has to actually make new teams ever again (yay me!).

    We did however manage to steal Golurk from LU; its spike in usage likely resulted from a combination of its typing, which allows it to check Heracross, Mienshao, and other fighters admirably, and it's ability to lay Stealth Rocks and maintain a ton of offensive presence.

    Tornadus continues its flux between UU and LU, with UU players being very picky about when and how they use it. Claydol also has dropped from LU; it looks to join an every growing core of Rapid Spinners in the tier, but maybe its ability to set rocks will set it apart from the others. Except not really, because the last drop Mismagius will join the ever growing core of spinblockers in the tier and make life miserable for Claydol, Sandslash, and many others.

    The Blissey voting will continue for a little while longer, as we felt two days over the weekend wasn't really enough time to allow for voters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
  2. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    bugzinator, we need a better stealth rock supporter or Mismagius.

    Surprised Tornadus has moved down again though. :O
     
  3. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    Golurk in UU? Never thought I'd see the day.
     
  4. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

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    Damnit, why didn't we use Tornadus more.... That thing is really good in UU, not sure why it dropped back down to LU.

    Mismagius was so badly outclassed by Cofagrigus and Chandelure, it struggled to stand out. It wasn't a bad Pokemon, but just so outclassed.

    Meh Claydol, it was a decent Pokemon though.

    Golurk is actually really good, never expected it to become UU but wow, nice job Golurk!
     
  5. Froggy

    Froggy Active Member

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    wow.... boring tier changes~

    Other then the fact that ppl finally realized Golurk is amazing nothing really happened >.> oh well
     
  6. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Golurk is overrated, all it really has going for it is a good ability and typing. Other than that, it's very underwhelming in UU. It's too slow to be a huge offensive threat, and too frail to be a bulky attacker, although it could fill a niche similar to Machamp. Hope it drops back to LU because it's semi-decent there at least.
     
  7. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Golurk is still alright-ish in UU, but I think that it may move down again, as not a lot of people are obviously liking it, with <4% already. Oh well, if it does at least we can say it has been in Gen 5 UU before (with like just everything nowadays).

    Porygon-Z and Cobalion are too underrated, IMO. Porygon-Z has 2 fantastic abilities in Adaptability and Download, along with a monster Special Attack and Speed stat, I just think it should be used more. Meanwhile, the latter has some very nice bulk and diversity out there (it even has reasonable attacking and respectable speed stats), however now I'm starting to wonder that it could actually be effective but not broken in LU. :O

    However, what has surprised me so far is:
    # 50 - Reuniclus (3.87 %)

    Usage isn't everything, but it can be certainly important.
     
  8. Wander

    Wander Shitty Wizard

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    It's only July 4th...
     
  9. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    True. I don't really see it with a lot of usage in UU though. I hope Reuniclus and Porygon-Z get the usage they deserve though. Cobalion is probably doing to move down in the next tier changes I players don't do something anyways.
     
  10. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    Just wanted to show some Japanese player's Assist Liepard set in action that's almost impossible to beat. It's pretty much how he and several other players topped the ladder:

    Battle between 站起来撸 and Kyrk started!

    Tier: Wifi UU
    Mode: Singles
    Rule: Rated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Wifi Battle
    Variation: +26, -6

    Your team: Togekiss / Zapdos / Druddigon / Reuniclus / Gallade / Rhyperior
    Opponent's team: Ditto / Golurk / Mew / Blastoise / Liepard / Nidoqueen

    站起来撸 sent out 百变怪! (Ditto)
    Kyrk sent out Helga! (Rhyperior)
    The foe's 百变怪 transformed into Rhyperior!

    Start of turn 1
    站起来撸 called 百变怪 back!
    站起来撸 sent out æ°´ç®*龟! (Blastoise)

    Helga used Earthquake!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 lost 69% of its health!

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 2
    Kyrk called Helga back!
    Kyrk sent out Dr.Fetus! (Reuniclus)

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 used Protect!
    But it failed!

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 3
    Kyrk called Dr.Fetus back!
    Kyrk sent out Helga! (Rhyperior)

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 used Roar!
    Galbladder was dragged out!

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 4
    Galbladder used Zen Headbutt!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 lost 32% of its health!

    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 used Counter!
    Galbladder lost 236 HP! (70% of its health)

    Galbladder restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 5
    Galbladder used Drain Punch!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 lost 22% of its health!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 fainted!
    The foe's æ°´ç®*龟 had its energy drained!

    Galbladder restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    站起来撸 sent out 酷豹! (Liepard)

    Start of turn 6
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    French was dragged out!

    Start of turn 7
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Helga was dragged out!

    Start of turn 8
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    French was dragged out!

    Start of turn 9
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Helga was dragged out!

    Start of turn 10
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Ralph was dragged out!
    Ralph has Mold Breaker!

    Start of turn 11
    站起来撸 called 酷豹 back!
    站起来撸 sent out 百变怪! (Ditto)

    The foe's 百变怪 transformed into Druddigon!
    The foe's 百变怪 has Mold Breaker!
    Ralph used Earthquake!
    The foe's 百变怪 lost 42% of its health!

    Start of turn 12
    The foe's 百变怪 used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around Kyrk's team!

    Ralph used Outrage!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's 百变怪 lost 57% of its health!
    The foe's 百变怪 fainted!

    站起来撸 sent out 酷豹! (Liepard)

    Start of turn 13
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Ralph used Outrage!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 14
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Ralph used Outrage!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!
    Ralph calmed down!
    Ralph became confused!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 15
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Ralph is confused!
    Ralph used Outrage!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 16
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Ralph is confused!
    Ralph used Outrage!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Dr.Fetus was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 18
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into French!
    Clayton Wal-Mart is watching the battle.
    French was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    French restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 19
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into KACAW!
    KACAW was dragged out!
    KACAW is exerting its Pressure!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    KACAW restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 20
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Galbladder!
    Galbladder was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Galbladder restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 21
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Ralph!
    Ralph was dragged out!
    Ralph has Mold Breaker!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Ralph restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 22
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Dr.Fetus was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 23
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into French!
    French was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    French restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 24
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!
    Helga was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 25
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Galbladder!
    Galbladder was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Galbladder restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 26
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into KACAW!
    KACAW was dragged out!
    KACAW is exerting its Pressure!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    KACAW restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 27
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Galbladder!
    Galbladder was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Galbladder restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 28
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into French!
    French was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    French restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 29
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Ralph!
    Ralph was dragged out!
    Ralph has Mold Breaker!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Ralph restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 30
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into French!
    French was dragged out!

    French restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 31
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!
    Helga was dragged out!

    Start of turn 32
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into KACAW!
    KACAW was dragged out!
    KACAW is exerting its Pressure!

    KACAW restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 33
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!
    Helga was dragged out!

    Start of turn 34
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Dr.Fetus was dragged out!

    Start of turn 35
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 36
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 37
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 38
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 39
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Ralph!
    Ralph was dragged out!
    Ralph has Mold Breaker!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Ralph restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 40
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into KACAW!
    KACAW was dragged out!
    KACAW is exerting its Pressure!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    KACAW restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 41
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Dark Pulse!
    A critical hit!
    KACAW lost 95 HP! (24% of its health)
    KACAW fainted!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyrk sent out Helga! (Rhyperior)
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!

    Start of turn 42
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Dr.Fetus was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 43
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    A critical hit!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 44
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Substitute!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ made a substitute!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    The attack of Dr.Fetus missed!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 45
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Nasty Plot!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s Sp. Att. sharply rose!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    The attack of Dr.Fetus missed!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 46
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Nasty Plot!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s Sp. Att. sharply rose!

    Dr.Fetus used Focus Blast!
    It's super effective!
    A critical hit!
    The foe's é…·è±¹'s substitute faded!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 47
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Dark Pulse!
    It's super effective!
    Dr.Fetus lost 424 HP! (100% of its health)
    Dr.Fetus fainted!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Kyrk sent out Helga! (Rhyperior)
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!

    Start of turn 48
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Ralph!
    Ralph was dragged out!
    Ralph has Mold Breaker!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Ralph restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 49
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Assist!
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Roar!
    Pointed stones dug into Helga!
    Helga was dragged out!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 50
    The foe's é…·è±¹ used Dark Pulse!
    A critical hit!
    Helga lost 249 HP! (63% of its health)
    Helga fainted!

    The foe's é…·è±¹ restored a little HP using its Leftovers![/HIDE]

    It's a gimmick, but it's a strong gimmick. Don't want to say it should get banned on the spot, just wanted other opinions on it.
     
  11. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    People with different names that are either from japan, china, or somewhere in Asia (based off the symbols in their names) have been using this stuff a ton in NU. One went from 1000 to #3 in NU, just in one day. I know that another was top 5 in LU, as well. (They do it in OU and Ubers, but with all the people playing those tiers - they just blend in and aren't as noticeable. Plus, those tiers have more answers to these prankster users.)

    Overall, the playstyle is gimmicky, but it has a very high pay-off if you use it well and the opponent lacks a complete stop (playing it well is VERY simple.)
    I was contemplating suspecting it in NU, but it still has to pass by my fellow tier leaders.
     
  12. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    you just have to be smart and not allow them to copy hazards since they don't run their own
     
  13. Xdevo

    Xdevo Phrasing Super Moderator Tour Director Super Moderator Tour Director

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    The only way to prevent them from copying hazards is to either have a SR user that outspeeds Liepard (so Aero and Acelgor) so that Liepard will switch last, or to use Xatu to prevent SR from getting up on your side. Xatu also shuts down the Roar spam, but it is weak to Liepard's STAB moves (it is almost guaranteed to 2HKO or better).
     
  14. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer God

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    Eh, the only big changes were Golurk rising and I guess Nadus dropping is a shock. My main theory with this is people are too lazy to run manual rain, and the Physical Bulk Up set isn't getting the love it deserves, oh well.
     
  15. AustinXhensL

    AustinXhensL Member

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    Things that have been UU at some point in gen 5, Terrakion/deo-d/deo-s/alakazam/donphan/wobbuffet/landorus/chansey/kyurem-w/deo-n/blaziken/vulpix/sandstream/Snow Warning/haxorus/hydreigon/lucario/gastrodon/sigilyph/krookodile/nidoqueen(shouldn't be UU now)/gliscor/erufuun

    the point of it being UU at some point in the field of gen5 means almost nothing to how weak or good it rly is (just ask the Muse)
     
  16. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    RTG
    The thing is regarding the Liepard set is that you don't even need hazards to sweep teams. Just Assist+Roar until your opponent switches into a pokemon that can't do anything or is weak to it, set up a Sub or Nasty Plot on your opponent's switch, and repeat until you reach +6 and sweep. Also the Xatu switchin is easy to predict and will always lose to NP+Dark Pulse.

    [​IMG]

    The top 3 players on the ladder easily got there using the same Liepard team, as well as multiple other players on the front page. While this set is newly discovered, there's really no consistent way to defeat it without near-perfect prediction or using mediocre pokemon with the Soundproof or Suction Cups abilities that don't get 1hko'd by Dark Pulse such as Abomasnow, Cradily, or Octillery. I'm not really this adamant on stuff like this, but something like Prankster+Assist/Copycat should really be banned or at least suspected.
     
  17. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    I could be wrong, but I think it's too hard to ban two specific moves AND abilities on one Pokemon unless they do really specific programming (using the Blaziken example here). Again, I could be wrong, so don't hate on me if I am.

    If I for some reason were to be right, we should ban Liepard as a whole because banning Prankster would be too big of a broad ban since, unlike Moody, nothing else is considered broken with it (Sableye, Tornadus, and Whimsicott are all manageable and the Riolu set is perfectly stoppable in UU).

    I agree with banning the combination of Prankster+Assist/Copycat, but if that can't be done, Liepard is the problem.

    [SECRET]Besides, we can't forget about the ParaSwag set, which is really hard to take down if behind a Sub.[/SECRET]
     
  18. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    maybe instead of banning Liepard, or an odd complex ban, just ban the people who use the broken strategies ^_^

    but seriously this Liepard shenanigans is getting ridiculous now and needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later
     
  19. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Kat
    Liepard has been banned from UU. Not for being broken or unbeatable, it got banned for being uncompetitive, ruining the ladder and turning every match involving it in a "Watch the Liepard Roar until you lose or until it runs out of PP".
     
  20. Terminator9876able

    Terminator9876able New Member

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    Thank god! So happy about this! It was so boring and required zero skill for the losers who wanted to use it
     
  21. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    praise-the-lord-meme-generator-praise-the-lord-5d7260.jpg

    Now that that's over, maybe we should go to other potential suspects, like maybe Chandelure.

    Chandelure is a really powerful Pokemon with okay bulk and defenses and is proven the best Ghost type in the tier. 145 Base SpAtk with good STABs and Energy Ball hurts the tier just as much as Victini, if not more. Now that Blissey's gone (aw man), it can hit the tier really hard. The only hard counters are Snorlax and Umbreon, and they lose to Heracross.

    I'm not adamant about the ban, I just want a discussion about it.
     
  22. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    YUSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    Chandelure only really has 1 counter, and that's Snorlax, being immune to Shadow Ball + resisting Fire Blast, however this can be easily tricked and crippled for the remainder of the match. P2 can be 2HKO'd Fire Blast, you just have to run Flame Body so it can't trace Flash Fire, and Umbreon is also 2HKO'd by Fire Blast. Houndoom can be dealt with by HP Fighting, and tbh Energy Ball isn't exactly neccessary because a specs shadow ball can easily 2hko most water types in the tier barring Milotic.

    So that means only 1 pokemon can reliably switch into Chandelure, Snorlax, which is heavily crippled if tricked a choice item. I don't believe its ridiculous power can be offset by a weakness to hazards, since it isn't difficult to spin in UU with both Blastoise and Hitmontop having access to foresight. The Specs set can't even be reliably revenge killed by Heracross or Mienshao since Jolly Stone Edge doesn't OHKO, so that doesn't leave too many other common pokes that can reliably revenge kill.

    So overall if you're not running a Snorlax on your team you need to have godly prediction skills to stop Chandelure from running straight through you, and if you can keep hazards away (which as I said isn't difficult) then it can't be reliably revenge killed either, so I would say Chandelure is broken.

    I also think Mienshao is potentially broken, but lets focus on Chandelure for now.

    Edit: Banned in all tiers below as well, even better, ty again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2013
  23. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    It is banned in UU, which means it also is banned in every tier below it.

    Also about Chandelure, you guys should read this thread, if you haven't already. Note that I am not implying a Chandelure suspect is out of the question, just providing info about the subject.
     
  24. Omfuga216

    Omfuga216 Banned

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    Chandelure is, as it always has been, broken. Flame body specs Chandelure (HP fighting, fire blast, shadow ball, trick) is completely uncounterable. The standard Snorlax (as checked by PO usage statistics) takes 37% - 44% from an hp fighting, and even so, it has nothing to touch Chandelure. It only runs body slam/whirlwind, which, if the opponent has a Xatu or a spinner, is not even a Chandelure check. It is completely ruined by trick, forced to lock itself into rest for healing, or lock itself into whirlwind getting slowly withered away at. Banded Snorlax is the closest thing Chandelure has to a "counter," but even so, banded Snorlax will always get 2HKO'd by hp fighting after rocks, so it can't even switch in effectively. Point being, Chandelure has checks, but there are few, and it has absolutely no counters.
     
  25. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    Just to briefly state something, even if a Pokemon (in this instince, Specs Chandelure) can 2HKO the entire metagame, it isn't necessarily broken.
    UU is a tier that's full of powerhouses that have the ability to 2hko the whole tier and lack reliable counters.
    Just to list a few: Victini, Kingdra, Metagross, Durant, Reuniclus, Meloetta, and of course the aforementioned Chandelure.

    I understand that it has 145 SAtk, but Chandelure lacks survivability and speed. I'd say that Victini would be a better potential suspect just because it lacks counters and has few checks (like Chandelure), but it has more survivability, speed, and versatility. Regardless, I believe they're both fine in UU.

    Overall, the UU metagame is relitively balanced (I hate Reuniclus, but maybe it'll be used enough in OU this time around!)
     
  26. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    But Chandelure only has 1 counter, and judging from omfugas post that can be beaten by HP Fighting since the most common set doesn't even run a move to hit Chandelure. Durant is the only other thing you mentioned that is probably near the same level of having 0 counters, but this is held back by its low accuracy and extreme frailty on the special side, and almost all common scarfer's run a move that can ohko it (darm, mien hjk, victini, etc.) The other pokes such as Victini + Kingdra are threatening initially since you don't know their set, but all their sets have alot more checks and counters (except maybe mixtini) whereas you basically know exactly what chandelure is going to do but if you don't run Snorlax it doesn't matter, you have to predict perfectly or you'll lose a pokemon. Metagross is hard countered by basically every water type in the tier + Bronzong, and the psychic types are generally shut down by Strong Special walls like Snorlax + Umbreon. I know you were more than likely making a sweeping comment about those pokemon, but the fact is literally no other pokemon in UU can claim to have only 1 counter, so they aren't comparable to Chandelure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  27. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    [​IMG]
    I have no idea why I made this...

    Also since no one actually used it in the tour, can we an actual retest on Roserade to see how it affects the metagame? Same applies with Smeargle retest and Smashpass ban.
     
  28. Xinc

    Xinc Time for Oras?

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    I found it kind of amusing that no one did use Roserade or Smeargle.

    I would also like to ask that whether it was possible for Liepard to be banned straight up without any discussion or did I miss it? o.O;;

    And lastly, how possible would it be for a Froslass retest. I do not believe Froslass's ban was justified (with enough reason, anyway).
     
  29. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Apparently everyone was complaining about the Liepard trick, it was kind of unanimous '-'

    Also, let's wait until Roserade testing is done because it should really be one at a time (Froslass checks Roserade and that would screw up the whole process of judging both at the same time).
     
  30. pokeboss9

    pokeboss9 Member

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    Is there somewhere a suspect feedback thread ?
    The Blissey / Liepard suspect was managed badly by UU leaders.

    They have chosen Blissey as UUs most broken pokemon.
    • Their choice or the communities ?

    Only half of the voting accounts have been confirmed.
    • Showing their influence on the community.


    They mentioned some votes are rejected for poor reasoning.
    • I never saw a democratic election rejecting legal voters.


    They called the result -ban- and closed thread.
    • I want a list of all voting paragraphs.


    During Blissey vote they noticed Liepard is broken.
    • Not paying attention to top leader teams ?


    Now they close a thread "Blssey not broken"
    • Haha, poor reasoning ban.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2013
  31. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Can we end this discussion because I for one am tired of all of the butthurts...

    Also, after some thought, I honestly think Froslass should stay banned because it gives an unfair advantage 80% of the time. I'll post some reasoning later.

    Forgive me for the double post but I have my reasons for why Froslass shouldn't come back now:

    [SECRET]But first, an introduction!!
    [SECRET]In Yu-gi-oh, there's a really well-known card that I bet even you know: Pot of Greed. Easy Spell with an easy effect: Draw 2 cards. No aces in the hole or anything.

    The card is banned.

    The reason for this is because it gives an unfair advantage to the player using it (I'd get to really specific terms, but this is Pokemon, not Yu-gi-oh). Getting to draw two for free without wasting a resource or paying a price is stupid and gives you an extra play. Don't say "negate it and it's over" because that's an argument for everything.

    Also, it would be splashed into any deck because of the lack of specification, so everyone would use it (another reason why they ban cards is if they are universal btw).[/SECRET]

    Going on from this, Froslass is like Pot of Greed: a splashable and completely unfair advantage. Laying down Spikes with virtual impunity by being a Ghost type and really fast, even in the metagame we're in now, is frankly cheating. The "stop it and it's over" excuse has the same logic in the introduction, and even then it's hard, especially with another Ghost on the team.

    The introduction is mostly talking about the suicide lead set, which is the definition of advantage. Not only can it be used on almost any team, but you ALWAYS get at least one layer of Spikes and KO a Pokemon with Destiny Bond. In the end: 5 v 5 and the opponent has one or two layer of Spikes out and an important Pokemon gone while you have fresh ammo.

    Let's not forget to mention the addition of Cursed Body, which is a total pain in the ass.[/SECRET]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2013
  32. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Not many threats that I've saw over the past few weeks, but I thought that Weavile could be suspected. It's a little weird to other people why I say this, however lets look some factors about Weavile.

    Stats:- Weavile has incredible Attack and Speed stats at 120 and 125. This is the first thing that came into my head. Weavile is one of the most fastest and most powerful Pokémon in the whole tier.

    Moves:- Weavile has the right movepool to use this stats too. Night Slash and Ice Punch are very good STABs to have, Brick Break and Low Kick, to go with coverage to dominate all of the Pokémon listed below as well as an access to Swords Dance, making it very deadly if it uses it at the right time.

    Further boosted by Life Orb, here are some damage calcs to prove how dangerous Weavile really is and that almost all of the above can't switch in safely:-

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 283-335 (82.99 - 98.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 356-421 (71.62 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 157-187 (53.95 - 64.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-187 (48.9 - 58.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 239-283 (77.59 - 91.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Golurk: 361-429 (99.72 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 273-322 (63.19 - 74.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 260-307 (67.53 - 79.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus: 406-478 (135.78 - 159.86%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Claydol: 289-343 (89.19 - 105.86%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Night Slash vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus: 330-390 (80.68 - 95.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    What else Weavile does:- Coupled with the Life Orb and stats, Weavile can dominate about 60% of the UU Tier all on its own.

    Weavile can take down non-Scarf Mienshao, Specs Chandelure, -1 Spd Victini, Snorlax, Rhyperior, Flygon, Kingdra (when switched in), non-Scarf Zapdos, Slowbro, Cofagrigus (when switched in), Roserade, Xatu, Nidoking, Crobat, Honchkrow, Gligar, Shaymin, weakened Metagross, Yanmega, Azelf, Empoleon (when switched in), weakened Scrafty, slower Weavile, Golurk, Amoonguss (when switched in), Virizion, Sharpedo, Cobalion, Porygon-Z, Tornadus (non-Rain), Houndoom, Claydol (when switched in), and Reuniclus.

    Conclusion:- I hope this post doesn't make me look ridiculous, but with hazards, Weavile seems like a suspect to me. And if it DID rise up to Wifi OU, it would fit in quite nicely, wing able to take on those Dragons, Psychics and more. Plus, this usage stat might be interesting to look at also:-

    # 53 - Weavile (3.35 %)

    It has more usage than CHANSEY atm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  33. ThatIsWhatSheSaid

    ThatIsWhatSheSaid seasoned vet

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    Please use this thread to discuss potential suspects.
    This is not a place for usage stats discussion not relevant to said discussion. Seriously people there's a thread for that.
     
  34. Fille

    Fille True GenderBender

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    We need to take in account that back then, we had Hydreigon to counter it, and most people ran Scarf Chandelure at that time, baring the top ladder players (aka #20+ if I remember right). A scarf Chandelure definitely got more counters, seeing that P2/Umbreon/Milotic/Suicune/any specially bulky water type could take a hit or 2 and heal up. As for Hydreigon, it could switch in on Hydreigon's STABs, and easily threaten it out, just the fact that nothing could really switch in on Hydreigon made people sacrifice Chandelure. I saw my post on that thread and I heavily regret my opinions :P

    Weavile only breaks HO. If you want some good counters (common), then you can try Bronzong, Suicune, Porygon-2, Umbreon or Milotic. Also, certain of these point sare unvalid. Weavile can't OHKO Rhyperior, Rhyperior can OHKO Weavile (Assuming weavile doesn't launch a +6 Ice punch). Weavile can't OHKO Slowbro, unless +4. Cofagrigus is also 2HKOd at +2 I believe, while Hp fighting OHKOs Weavile (If offensive. If defensive, then Will O Wisp cripples it). Nothing switches in on a +2 Night slash/Ice shard/Punch/Low kick, they switch in as you set up to +2. Weakened Metagross seems like theorymonning to me, as it might as well be 100% hp, same goes for Scrafty. Slower Weavile seems weird, but if this absurd situation occurs, then you're right. Sharpedo, I believe (Correct me if I'm wrong) can take a +2 Ice shard, even a +4, tho I might be wrong. If you want to, then calc this. What is the Non-rain Tornadus? Why can you OHKO that and not Rain Tornadus?

    As mentioned, Weavile only breaks HO.

    Edit: If Beat up hits 6 times, then I believe it might OHKO Slowbro at +2. Can't remember tho. ( <-- Theorymonning, lmao xD)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013
  35. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    @ Fille: Hydreigon was only UU for around 3 weeks in October, so it wasn't around during that suspect test

    also specs chandy was the most used set by good battlers around that time
     
  36. Afro Smash

    Afro Smash Mfw I'm living the Australian dream

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    Seems like this discussion kinda died off, especially with the rose retest, but i'd like to hear other peoples thoughts on a Chandy suspect.
     
  37. Rusl

    Rusl Member

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    I feel like of chandy were suspected and eventually rose, amoon/bro cores would rise in usage to a stupid extent.
     
  38. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    With Roserade being allowed back into the tier, I believe UU is pretty balanced, or at least as balanced as any offensive metagame that has plenty of power-houses will be.
    Historically, UU Metagames ends up relitively balanced. DPP UU and ADV UU are pretty cool to play and don't appear to have many broken Pokemon, if any - same with BW.

    The last potential suspect, in my opinion, is Victini. It is pretty versatile, especially once you take the mixed sets into consideration, and it hits like a truck with V-Create (and electric Attaks for waters.)
    All in all, I think Victini still fits into the metagame pretty well, although it lacks many safe switch-ins / counters.
     
  39. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Honestly? UU is balanced at the moment. The only 2 things that are remotely close to broken in the tier are Victini and Mienshao, and even they have their flaws (Victini's multiple weaknesses, including Stealth Rock and risk of being revenge-killed after V-Create, and Mienshao's not too hard to counter with mons like Cofagrigus and dare I say it, Golurk)

    I think a Smeargle retest wouldn't hurt for the next cycle. Along with Roserade it was tested during the UU Subforum Tour and it wasn't really seen to be broken (barely anyone used it to be honest). With the combination of SS+BP being banned, it's going to be a lot less threatening than before. As much as I hate it, Smeargle wouldn't be a bad choice to free.
     
  40. Virizion

    Virizion ~ Taste the Rainbow ~

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    Lets look at Victini:-

    It has base 100 stats all around the board, so for this it gets decent bulk, decent attacking stats and decent speed. These relatively-high attacking stats are really nice because it means that Victini could go either offensively or defensively (thanks to its movepool), meaning it can be a surprise on what Victini is being used when it sent out into play, so one must prepare on how to safely counter this threat.

    In typing-wise, Fire / Psychic is an unique and excellent offensive typing. These two types alone are super-effective against Grass, Bug, Fighting, Poison, Steel and Ice-type Pokémon. As well as this, many few types resist this deadly combination, so Victini can do hefty damage to about anything. Since Fighting and Steel-types are seen problems in UU, Victini can most of the time outspeed, a Choice Scarf can help this, and then take out their teams biggest threat. If defenses are becoming a problem, then Victini can equipped a Choice Band and proceed to become a Wallbreaker.
    It may seem that it isn't as good defensively, as one main feature with it as it gets a weakness to Stealth Rock, a commonly used move in the metagame, yet obviously this can be supported by a spinner (Blastoise can work well for a FWG core). Pursuit may seem a problem in the first place, but since U-Turn becomes so common to use on Victini, it isn't as much as a problem. Common bulky Water-types in the tier can grant a threat, but Victini gets access to both Fusion Bolt and Bolt Strike, so they can proceed to take them out, as long as the player predicts correctly.

    Victinis movepool is a blessing. With access to a powerful physical and special Fire-type attack in V-Create and Blue Flare, Victini is surely going to get a good enough Fire-type STAB, and the ability Victory Star helps cover the redeeming accuracy in any of Victinis moves. Zen Headbutt and Psychic are usable secondary-STABs, U-Turn to get the heck out of there, along with Fusion Bolt or Bolt Strike to take on problematic Water-types (I believe it gets Thunderbolt too), these moves can lead Victini to victory. It also gets Grass Knot I believe to take on Swamperts and Rhyperiors a little bit better.

    Against the current metagame, Victini faces competition against faster Choice Scarf users and a Fire-type in Darmanitan, however Victini can take on just about anything it wants to, as long as the opponent doesn't switch in to take advantage of that. I don't think Victini is broken in the UU metagame but just a really huge threat that every team must prepare for (or GG).

    I apologise if this post is garbage though, I wanted to get involved. :(
     
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