[BW2] May and June Wifi UU tier / Potential Suspect Discussions

Discussion in 'Gen 5 UU' started by Halsey, Apr 30, 2013.

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  1. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    I guess I should put in an opinion about what's going on:

    Roserade: I wasn't here when the Roserade testing, but I see where the dispute is. Roserade is an extreme powerhouse and great supporter at the same time. STABs are meh, but 125 Base Special Attack still hurts. The offensive cores that can be made are considerably broken, and the metagame is so adapted to other threats that it can't multitask and defend against the likes of Victini AND Roserade at the same time (just an example)! It's too soon to say that Roserade can be retested because the metagame isn't ready for it yet.

    Blissey: Blissey is very similar to Gligar. In fact, if it uses Softboiled and not Wish or Heal Bell, I think Blissey is almost exactly like Gligar. Gligar is an epic pause to physical attackers; so is Blissey with special attackers. Gligar has instant recovery and SR; so does Blissey. Gligar has the capability to do some damage as a wall; so does Blissey in some ways. Wish and Heal Bell are amazing on Blissey, but Gligar gets U-Turn, STAB EQ, and is more threatening to the metagame than Blissey. So, in a way, Blissey is like Gligar in UU. You want to know the funny thing?

    People don't call Gligar broken!

    Reuniclus: To be honest, I haven't seen a lot of Reuniclus, so I'm not totally sure. Reuniclus does seem a bit too powerful from what I heard, though, and I can agree. The more common Special walls, even Blissey, lose to it, it MURDERS the last bit of stall that the tier has, and Magic Guard is insane (can't Toxic or Entry hazard me, bitches!!). Calm Mind, Recover, Trick Room, Trick (with Flame Orb), and enough coverage makes the metagame cry. I could easily see it going BL.

    In short: Wait for Roserade, Blissey is fine, Reuniclus can get the boot all I care.
     
  2. AmourShipper

    AmourShipper meh i'm bored

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    Tbh Gligar is far from broken. It might have the physical bulk of God himself but it can't take advantage of it. Aside from Heracross, almost all relevant Fighting-types carry an Ice-type move, which means Gligar has a lot of trouble countering them. Gligar is massive momentum killer because his EQ is weak and his Roost spam leads to free turns and kills momentum. Gligar honestly doesn't counter many physical threats in UU.

    I'm not sure about Blissey since I've never seen or used it, oddly enough.

    Reuniclus is a beast, his OTR set owns, I've used him and he wrecks. TR is boss.
     
  3. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    I wasn't saying Gligar was broken, I was comparing it to Blissey. I guess I was overextending Gligar's usefulness a bit (not saying it isn't useful). If you look at Gligar, it's oddly similar to Blissey, so, if Gligar isn't broken, I doubt Blissey would be either.

    btw what does OTR mean? Offensive Trick Room? Sorry, just never heard of the expression before.
     
  4. Firer

    Firer Owner

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    image.jpg [/HIDE]


    The huge difference between Gligar and Blissey is (beside the fact that Blissey isnt dying to random attacks like hp ice) is that blissey is a way better team supporter. Once gligar got its sr down its attacks arent going to harm your opp. Blissey on the other hand has beside sr and twave, also heal bell which is always nice to have and most importantly Wish. I kinda have the feeling ppl really underrate this especially mid-late mid game. It works somehow like this:
    You come in on nearly every special attacker which is normally 1/3-1/2 of the opponents team and use wish. Then poke you switch into (preferably something that handles the opps switch in but as long as it can take a hit that isnt even needed) is fully healed. Even things like metagross or bronzong which really appreciate this.
     
  5. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Loving the use of that meme thar. :3

    I do see the logic in comparing Gligar and Blissey, as they're pretty much full stops to most physical and special sweepers, respectively, while they're able to take a couple of hits on the other side, but will fold easily. Not to mention they both have reliable recovery, don't care about Toxic, have a usable attacking stat and also have Stealth Rock.

    However, Gligar's practically a one trick pony, as the only moves you ever see it using are Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Roost and Toxic, with other stuff like Knock Off used on occasion. Blissey however, is a lot more diverse, and not completely lost against physical attackers, as she can cripple them with Thunder Wave as they come in, and only has one 2x weakness that can be exploited.

    Though I've never had real trouble with Blissey, I can certainly see how she'll stagnate the metagame.
     
  6. Firer

    Firer Owner

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    lol ty ^^

    for someone reason i wasnt able to get a bigger one, prolly cause I was at the iPad.

    Anywhay I was a bit exaggerating, but you summed it up nicely. Gligar just can not do much back.
     
  7. Kyrk

    Kyrk KACAW

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    Can I get your opinion on Victini? It may just be me, but I find that there's literally almost 0 safe switchins to it, especially after it started getting more moves like Bolt Strike and Blue Flare, plus its versatility in being a physical, special, or mixed set makes it near unpredictable at some points.

    Also regarding Reuniclus - Using CM Reuniclus and battling OTR sets on the ladder, I can probably say that I don't find it "broken" at all so far, in fact I think it fits quite nicely - it's not terrible, but it's not beyond perfect. CM Reuniclus does a great job at breaking stall, and OTR makes TR teams a lot more useable, but both sets are completely walled by Sableye and Spiritomb.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  8. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    victini is held in check by its weakness to stealth rocks and its inability to switch into anything due to its poor defensive typing
     
  9. Firer

    Firer Owner

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    Hmm, while definetly being good pokemon I do not think it is broken. Its sheer versality makes the first switch-in difficult, but ones you scouted it, it gets alot easier to switch in, although its by far not easy to switch into band vcreate. But taking into account that the tier is full of fire resistances (and the incredible dangerous chandy if it manages to get a flash fire boost) and its other attacks are not that strong coming from a 100 base (s)atk. So I do not think anything beside v-create would be broken on, but I wold like to hear your opinion about that. I have no experience with the blue flare set, but in theory it does not seem that good. And if I look into the v-create set, it is very prone to revenge killing due to the side effect of v-create and big hazards weakness, that makes it quite hard for it to act as a hit-and-run pokemon. With stealth rock and 1 layer of spikes for example it can only switch in twice. Also it kinda kills your momentum.

    I'd rather look into chandelure for that matter, due to its better typing, way higher satk, better ability to sweep and still remaining some unpredicability till you figure out its item and if its sub etc...
     
  10. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    The all special set isn't especially good, but the mixed set is great. It works like this:

    Victini @ Expert Belt/ Lum Berry
    Naive/ Hasty Nature
    EV: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    V-Create
    Grass Knot
    Focus Blast
    Psychic / Thunder

    You lure in the bulky Rock/ Water types expecting the Scarf set, and then smash them. Rhyperior is always OHKOd by Grass Knot, while physically defensive Slowbro is 2HKOd. Focus Blast 2HKOs Choice Band Snorlax after Stealth Rock. Psychic is a more reliable STAB, while Thunder can be used to do more damage to Milotic and Slowbro.

    It's generally meant to lure out and eliminate physical walls, which it does well. However, I don't think Victini's broken - its weakness to entry hazards, common weaknesses and average attack stats keep it in check IMO.
     
  11. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Victini is probably one of the best hit and run Pokemon in the tier, with access to the insanely powerful V-Create, which with Victory Star will never miss, and a myriad of other excellent moves as well like U-Turn, Bolt Strike, Blue Flare, Zen Headbutt, Psychic, U-Turn, Thunder, Focus Blast and Glaciate, among others. A choice banded set is insanely powerful, with only a few Pokemon being able to avoid the 2HKO from V-Create, such as max defensive Rhyperior and max defensive Slowbro. A mixed set and a special set can also be used extremely well, being effective and surprising.

    That being said, Victini has its downsides. A weakness to Stealth Rock and 6 weaknesses allow it to be picked off easily, and using V-Create makes you hugely susceptible to being revenge-killed, therefore leaving the user to decide whether to switch out or sacrifice Victini.

    While Victini is one of the best pokemon in the current metagame, it's not broken in my personal view.
     
  12. Halsey

    Halsey Wildstar

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    Meowmix is now leading UU. Gratz.
     
  13. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Ehh?

    I thought it was Xinc... O.o

    EDIT: I misunderstood. Sorreh. D:
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  14. NidoTheKing

    NidoTheKing Father of the Year 2014!

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    Eh, I for one think Victini isn't that bad. I agree it is a nuke and one of the be, but V-Create's side effects are really annoying, and Fire/Psychic is terrible defensively. It's the combination of Darmanitan and Mew; powerful and unpredictable, but possible to kill. If Victini were all of those AND hard to kill, then it would be a different story.

    I can understand Chandelure as suspect. 145 Special attack is huge with great coverage and Trick (I personally don't know the big difference between it and Nidoking outside of Trick but that's just me), even though Fire/Ghost gives it a lot of weaknesses. The problem is Blissey is in UU, who owns all-out Chandelure to no end, as we speak and we don't know what's happening to it yet. Maybe we should wait and see what happens to Blissey before we make it suspect. Besides, it could be worse; Shadow Tag could be legal '~'

    Oh and congratz MeowMix
     
  15. East's Mascot

    East's Mascot The Tyrant

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    I think victini should be tested, Sure he has poor defensive typing, but so did jynx in NU, Victini can't be walled tbh, since it has accuracy boosts in it's ability, Vcreate and Bolt strikes less than preferential accuracy is almost meaningless. What Vcreate and Bolt strike don't hit Hp ice/grass knot can make up for, unless you want u-turn which is good as well. You don't just go, oh Victini, I'll counter it with swampert! 3 v creates and swampert is dead, after 1 vcreate and a switch out, swampert can't switch in and take another 2. Banded v create 2hkos mother ____king Gligar. GLIGAR. 2HKO'D and it's not even super effective. It may have poor defensive typing, but when you have base 100's and a fighting resist, you're pretty good in UU. Suicune and blastoise get smashed by Bolt strike, rhyperior hp grass/grass knot, almost everything else, vcreate. I don't think victini is broken so much as just V create. They gave it 90% accuracy, then gave the only pokemon who has it an ability that adds 10% accuracy. Wat. The stat drops don't matter too much since it outspeeds any switch in even at -1. I think we should have a suspect test for it.
     
  16. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    The thing is, UU is a tier full of insanely powerful Pokemon like:
    Victini, Offensive Zapdos, LO / Specs Kingdra, Darmanitan, Offensive Reuniclus, Offensive Rhypherior, Specs Raikou, LO / Banded Arcanine, Banded / Swords Dance Heracross, Mienshao, Offensive Metagross, Chandelure, Offensive Shaymin, Azumarill, Nidoking, Druddigon, Banded Flygon, Specs Rotom(any form), Specs Slowbro/Slowking, etc.

    Victini definetly stands out as one of the stronger Pokemon, but isn't necessarily broken, in my opinion.
    Sure, no one Pokemon can wall all of it's sets. However, the most common set, Choice Scarf, cannot break through most common bulky waters and other Physical Walls. The other Physical Set, Choice Banded, cannot really be walled, but has to predict the right move to lock into (albeit, the opponent also has to switch-in the right Pokemon.) But, it is revenged easily. Finally, the most controversial set: Mixed Victini, is not really walled at all. With the Dual
    STAB + BoltBeam coverage, Life Orb, good 100/100/100 offensive stats, and the lack of switch-ins, Mixed Victini is indeed a very strong and uncouterable set. But, there are so many other Pokemon that are really strong and lack a sufficient amount of counters that Victini doesn't seem broken enough to be the lone suspect. (If that makes sense and doesn't sound stupid.)
     
  17. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    BoltBeam? Victini doesn't get Ice Beam. And HP Ice is a poor option - apart from Flygon (who Victini should NEVER pick a fight with) what does it damage that V-Create, Grass Knot and Focus Blast don't?
     
  18. Finchinator

    Finchinator IT’S FINK DUMBASS

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    BoltBeam is an umbrella term used for Pokemon with an Electric Move and an Ice Move on the same set.
    Mixed Victini (especially Expert Belt ones) can run Glaciated or Hidden Power Ice to nail Gliscor, Flygon, etc.
    And obviously all Victini sets run an Electric type coverage move.
    In general, Victini's diverse coverage is one of it's strong suits is the point I was getting at!
     
  19. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    Already posted in the Blissey thread, but documenting it here as well:

    Considering the currently split in opinion about Blissey, the tier leaders have decided to take this to a vote.

    The cutoff for voting requirements will be 1350 on the UU ladder. When you submit your vote, you must also submit a paragraph detailing why you feel Blissey should either stay in UU or be banned from the tier.

    You have a little more than a week to attain the necessary ranking; we're gonna screenshot the ladder on Saturday, June 29th right at 12:00AM GMT-4.
     
  20. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Hey guys. This is nothing to do with Blissey, but... how about a test on Dugtrio?

    It's not seeing a lot of usage in OU (only about 3.5% on average), and it would be interesting to see if it overpowers the tier. Thoughts?
     
  21. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    We can't just "test" Dugtrio since it's currently part of OU; if it's usage in OU falls enough it will drop into UU eventually, no test required.
     
  22. Spoovo The Pirate

    Spoovo The Pirate Meep! Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    ...oh. I thought its usage was low enough to warrant potential suspect discussion?

    (I'm not very good with these things)
     
  23. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    Nah, suspect discussion on a mon only takes place if the mon currently in the tier, ie Blissey
     
  24. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I think we should give Roserade another go. UU has some good spinners (Hitmontop, Blastoice, Claydol) so the Spikes wouldn't be that big a deal. As an offensive Grass type it faces competition from Shaymin and Virizion. There are plenty of Fire types in UU that can take it out with little trouble.
     
  25. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    That's the role of the subforum tournament, to see whether Smeargle (without SS + BP mind you) and Roserade are broken in the UU metagame.

    Also, 2 out of 3 of the Rapid Spinners you mentioned are hit for super-effective damage by Roserade, and the other has problems with it too.
     
  26. pokemonnerd

    pokemonnerd Only uso listens to pnerd. Devo too. Article Contributor Article Contributor

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    Man, people really don't want to let Roserade go. I thought that horse was beaten into dust by now.

    Also, it arguably has a much better offensive presence than Shaymin. Sludge Bomb gives it a semi reliable STAB to go off of, Leaf Storm hits much harder than Seed Flare and doesn't depend on a special defense drop to be threatening to some walls, and it has Sleep Powder. It can even forsake that and go offensive spikes, in which case Snorlax even needs to tread lightly. And then there's even Leech Seed for Blissey if that stays here!
     
  27. Dr. Doom

    Dr. Doom Long time hater of stall

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    I know a great way to prevent people bringing up Roserade: give it a retest! People are theorymonning about how broken it would be because they don't want to give it a chance. If it turns out broken, just ban it a again, no harm done. Smogon has virtually the same UU as we do, and it's not broken there.
     
  28. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    I already said that it is being handled by the tournament. The UU leaders and xdevo are monitoring it and probably coming to a conclusion on Smeargle and Roserade when the tournament ends.
     
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