[BW2] The LC CCAT: Community Create A Team (Canceled)

Discussion in 'Gen 5 LC' started by viamage, Apr 29, 2013.

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  1. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    Community Create A Team
    LC Edition​



    [​IMG] 228.png 532.png

    Hello everyone,

    This will be an unofficial CCAT in which we explore new depths of team building. This CCAT will be open to players of all experience and levels(but only to basic pokemon at level 5). The object of this CCAT will be to help new people experience what goes through the minds of battle-hardened veterans while they build their teams and help the community as a collective to build a team that is far better than any one of us could as an individual


    Throughout the next few weeks I will be leading you through the following 5 steps to reach this end:

    1) Choose a pokemon/core that will be our basis for the team Completed
    This Pokemon/core will need to be a non standard one. The point of a CCAT is to bring in new ideas and not rehash old ones. This does not mean we can't pick a well liked pokemon such as porygon, but please stay away from Others Like Missy or Murkrow. The first choice is also the most important. This will be the pokemon that will decide the direction that this team will go, whether it be HO bulky offense or even semi stall. After a reasonable number of options have been nominated or no more are given, I will present the candidates before you and you will vote for your top 3, the winner will be chosen as our core and we will proceed​

    2) Choose pokemon 2/3-5
    If we choose a core as supposed to a single pokemon this will naturally be 1 poke quicker. in this step we will choose pokemon that we think best compliments our current team, vote on it, and proceed to the next pokemon until we have a full 6​

    3) Playtest
    Just like any new team we have to test it out before we can say we did a good job. Go onto the ladder. Challenge your friends. Find what it works good against and what it works bad against​

    4) Revise and Improve
    We are only human here and no matter how many of us work together we will always have a chink in our armor. This step is designed so we can make nominations for replacements. we will vote on many of the revisions present but a few will be made at the host's discretion. these will only me minor changes that can only help though​

    5) Showcase it
    This is something that may or may not happen, depending on the traffic that comes to this thread. The most valuable contributor will be selected to write up a Rate My Team to show off to the PO community as a whole. After all, we did work hard on this team and the fruits of our labor should be rewarded with appreciation.​


    Remember: This is to help everybody grow and develop, as well as get new ideas.



    Team thus far:

    aaadratini.png
    Dratini(M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2013
  2. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    I nominate....

    [secret]houndour.
    Why? Cause murkrow can get lost.
    Also, the life orb set is doing amazing, it revenges missy, 2 hits chinchou and murders porygon -use early bird... helps with porygon and spore, fire moves arent that common...-. Go find a switch in to a life orbed overheat, I dare you, whatever it is it doesnt like any of houndours other stab moves. Also, near perfect stab coverage is cool. Or we can go a bulkier way with eviolite which can actually take LO brave bird from murkrow and hp fighting from missy and quite a few other things. Heck, i've even considered leftovers for helping with stealth rock switch ins.

    Also, lets have a look at how it fares against the top used pokemon...
    -missdrevous
    If it lacks substitute or hp fighting its dead, and without substitute it will need to predict a fair amount, LO suckerpunch OHKOs, dark pulse does the same i believe and it doesnt like an overheat or flamethrower or fire blast.
    -Murkrow, it cant switch in too comfortably on anything and will be forced to roost with all but suckerpunch, if not it will be KOed. Also, like i said, eviolite houndour can take a hit from anything murkrow has even with a LO and OHKO back with fire blast or something.
    -Chinchou, its 2HKOed by LO dark pulse(either that or crunch, at worst houndour needs SR or like 1 HP extra damage), dislikes suckerpunch and even overheat can do a fair amount
    -Abra... well... nothing really fares too well against this unless it walls it. LO houndour needs it to have taken priority damage but can easily KO it if it has, at the very least bring it to its sash. Evio can beat it 1-1.
    -Porygon. Heh. A nasty surprise when they find houndour isnt sporting a flash fire for them to trace.[/secret]

    Another suggestion is elgyem, its got 24/14/14 defenses with some investment and recover, it also has 16 satk with that same set and analytic which boosts it to 24 satk given its horrible speed. It also gets thunderbolt for murkrow and some support moves we can use. T wave is nice. It takes shadowball from missy i believe and i know it takes suckerpunch from murkrow. It OHKOs murkrow, i dont know about missy. Or in the place of this we could try a solosis which can work like 17 speed mienfoo, having the same defenses but making up for the speed with offensive power, but it only had thunder and (lol) rockslide for murkrow, but, hey, regenerator!

    A choice scarf bulbasaur is actually really nice. Sleep powder is wonderfull, being able to revenge kill NP missy is great, resistance to mach punch and ability to switch into quite a few things thanks to its typing and decent bulk. Also it outspeeds snover and machop. Leaf storm packs a punch, giga drain helps keep stealth rock manageable and sludge bomb is stab. Probably not something to base a team around, though.

    Lickitung is usefull, its bulk is scary amazing. +4 vullaby only 3HKOed mine and it wasnt even maxed special defense. It makes a decent user of wish, heal bell is nice. The only problem is it needs to break missys subs(the bulkier of the missy/krow core) but it cant do so using a super effective move since krow resists all of those and trolls licki. Blizzard in hail was the only viable solution i could come up with, it worked well with snover which provided some passive damage which was nice, but i've been using ice beam which breaks the subs so that works too i suppose.

    those are just some things i've been experimenting with and found rather useful and interesting. Also, timbur sucks on so many levels, it only 4HKOs riolu not factoring riolu using drain punch. And restalk drain punch isnt as good as it seems. Snover is a nice pokemon to build the team around, too, it opens up blizzard for a lot of things which would appreciate it.

    Also i think we should impose some creativity rules on this CCAT, like no murkrow, missy, or anything else bog standard(that ugly mushroom included), lets try and avoid them as much as possible and even then lets not try and base the team off them.

    Edit:
    O.O
    >Viamage not spanish
    Mind
    Is
    Blown
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  3. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    awesome idea. I'll be glad to help.
     
  4. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    Seems like an awesome idea. I'm in.
     
  5. fitzy

    fitzy Heart of the cards Forum Moderator Forum Moderator

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    (Zorua) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 200 Atk / 40 Def / 240 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dark Pulse
    - Sucker Punch
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Extrasensory

    This needs more love :/

    As does

    (Minccino) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 196 Atk / 76 SDef / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Tail Slap
    - Aqua Tail
    - U-turn
    - Knock Off
     
  6. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    If we're using cincino i suggest wake up slap somewhere since i've seen a few feroseed and i dont see what aqua tail hits. Also maybe technician since skill link only boosts tail slap, techninican boosts wake up slap, knock off and tail slap
     
  7. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    Well I guess both fitzy and Trakyan have jumped the gun so let's get moving onto step 1:


    1st Pokemon:

    The first Pokemon does not have to be a sweeper or even an offensive presence, it could be a unique support pokemon that offers ways for other pokemon to capitalize off them and continue doing what they're doing. With that in mind I want everybody to take a look at fitzy's submissions:

    This is exactly how you should submit your ideas. However, you may also choose to offer an explanation of why your choice would be the ideal 1st pokemon.
     
  8. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    Lickitung (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 40 SAtk / 156 SDef / 40 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Wish

    Ok, tanks things like no body's business. Takes +2 vullaby's attacks with only a 3HKO, defensive nasty plot only 3HKOs at +4 and this isn't as high as it goes. It passes wish pretty well and makes great use of heal bell, I use this with a restalk timburr to good effect. It passes 14 HP wishes which is more than half of even chinchou's HP, everything else could get healed as much as 60-75% from one wish. Ice beam can be replaced with blizzard if we add snover but it's the best choice for now; it breaks missy's substitutes, hurts murkrow bad, hurts foongus, hurts lileep as good as anything else it has, hurts drillbur and so on. Dragon tail is nice but cant be the only attacking option, even murkrow's substitutes live that. I don't recommend we drop heal bell even if we add chinchou or another restalk heal beller because lickitung can wake up chinchou when it's struggling to do so. But if we get another heal beller that doesn't use rest I still recommend keeping it on lickitung for on the spot use like wilowisp or toxics that are aimed at the pink guy. If we do, however we should add shadow ball for obvious reasons named misdrevous.

    It has other options if we cover murkrow and misdrevous perfectly like knock off, dragon tail and stuff.

    Why is this good? Well, everything loves this guy's support, otherwise hit and miss sweepers like dragon dancers, nasty plot misdrevous and so on get an easy second wind. Hard hitters no longer need to worry about wilowisps, walls wont need to fear statuses and so the list goes on. He counters murkrow perfectly, does probably better than anything against live orbed murkrow under pressure(read, lower on health or sleeping in chinchou's case which sucks since it can be kept asleep by continuously forcing it out with something like foongus). The delay with wish is a great perk with passing, and a huge downside with self healing.

    Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 196 Atk / 40 Def / 196 SAtk / 76 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - Overheat

    Long winded reason below, tl;dr down the bottom for anyone not interested in examples, some calcs or specific explanations about things like ability and evs.
    [secret]
    Huh? What's this? A rather frail life orber with only 14 speed? Yeah I'm probably stupid and this isn't the strangest houndour I've run, but it makes more sense to people than the one I run now. For the sake of making an easy to use houndour, look at the above. The offensive EVs fit so perfectly you wouldn't believe, managing to perfectly score a KO on so many things using a suckerpunch and (worst case scenario based on base power since it has less base power than the fire stab) dark pulse. Things such as drillbur and chinchou and so on get knocked out to the hit point.

    Now you noticed the ability I'll bet. Yeah, not flash fire, is it? There aren't too many fire typed moves, and even then early bird's perks far outweigh flash fire's. First we have a quicker wake up from spore, potentially a first turn wake up or second turn which we get when foongus uses stun spore expecting a switch. Either way let's go to the true brilliance of that; porygon. Viamage's pride and joy. That thing makes sweepers and wall breakers cry, and, should it use flash fire, make houndour next to useless. So, as Viamage has discovered, switching into houndour isn't as fun as it used to be. Life orbed overheat does a huge amount of damage, throw in a flamethrower the turn before as porygon switches in and porygon is gone. Bam. Suckerpunch also knocks out misdrevous in one go should it be choiced or not have sub, though to be honest my houndour, which is life orbed so no eviolite for bulk, has beaten more substitute nasty plot misdrevous than have beaten it; you just need some prediction.

    Anyways, into the moves, specific stats and stuff. The 14 speed is very specific, its to out speed restalk chinchou, I'm pretty sure they run 13 speed, if they don't we can bump it up a little bit. I used a negatively special defensive nature because there is not special priority, yet sucker punch is a common threat so best to keep that physical defense higher, that comes in handy more when murkrow is paralysed or scarfed into suckerpunch. We can go for some more special defense to take misdrevous's shadow balls better if you guys want. Anyways, sucker punch is amazing, it does huge amounts even to the likes of chinchou and ponyta, and by huge amounts I mean more than half.

    I cant show calculations on that because I don't know the standard spreads but from experience sucker punch does over half. Anyways, dark pulse does the same, you may need one extra hit point in damage for chinchou depending on the rolls but how hard is that to do? Flame thrower is the first slash over fire blast because its accuracy is much more precious over the extra damage. Steel and grass types die regardless, fire blast only really scores an extra knock out over flame thrower on porygon and lileep

    196SpAtk Flash Fire lvl 5 Houndour (Neutral) Fire Blast vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite lvl 5 Porygon (+SpDef): 50% - 61% (13 - 16 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    that calculation applies for both porygon and lileep given their identical stats, though I dont know who runs that kind of porygon.

    Either way, a flamethrower(even dark pulse with some extra damage or the proper damage rolls) and overheat does the same thing more accurately. Then again, 85 accuracy is pretty good. Personally I prefer the guaranteed hit in a lot of situations like against a desperate foongus wanting to spore or something, a thunder waving ferroseed or whatever, the accuracy is much more useful from experience.

    Even better here is that houndour doesn't need rapid spin support, it will probably get knocked out by an attack rather than stealth rock, and it has the health it needs to use its life orb a lot of the time so it doesn't tend to run out of health because of life orb in most situations. Being at 19 health also helps with not only life orb but with stealth rock in reducing the percentage taken.

    Tl;dr
    It outspeed everything it needs to, being walls such as chinchou and stuff, it knocks out all of them, porygon and lileep included, in two hits and doesn't actually need to much support. It also works good with lickitung which can pass it wishes when played right.

    Ohh yeah, and to any critics that want to blab on about how murkrow is superior, here is an adapted internet meme for you:
    Houndour don't care
    Honey-Badger-Dont-Care.jpg
    *caption* Heck, it even looks like houndour *caption*[/secret]

    Bulbasaur (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 236 SAtk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder

    I'm going to start off with saying, this is bulky, it takes a lot of attacks you wouldn't expect. Anyways, leaf storm hits like a truck. Defensive misdrevous takes 52% from it at the very least. Offensive misdrevous?

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Overgrow lvl 5 Bulbasaur (+SAtk) Leaf Storm vs 36HP/0SpDef Eviolite Levitate lvl 5 Misdreavus (Neutral): 69% - 91% (16 - 21 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    says it all up there.

    Anyways, sleep powder is very useful to throw out there the first time you switch in, it scouts out your opponent's switch in to bulbasaur and disarms it, its also a nice lure for murkrow which use insomnia so you can knock them out with a sludge bomb. Or, you could rub it in murkrow's face with a leaf storm and deal over half with a leaf storm. Also, if we chose something which has offensive synergy with bulbasaur, if bulbasaur fire sleep powder the opponent has to choose between sending in its bulbasaur counter to be sleep foddered or sending in its check for our other offensive pokemon as sleep fodder, which opens a hole in for one of them.

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Overgrow lvl 5 Bulbasaur (+SAtk) Leaf Storm vs 36HP/20SpDef Eviolite lvl 5 Murkrow (Neutral): 52% - 60% (12 - 14 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    Add in rocks and, if it has it, it will be forced to roost which lets you switch safely.

    Giga drain is nice for keeping healthy from weak things like misdrevous's hidden power, thunderbolt, pretty much anything from chinchou and so on. Sludge bomb is a nice, powerful second STAB move. Ohh, and can I say, this guy pulled off a leaf storm sweep. On three pokemon. All had over 75% health; misdrevous, drillbur, chinchou. Yeah, and it wasn't a one time deal. It can switch in on a lot, anything unboosted misdrevous has, it takes murkrows suckerpunch, anything foongus has, anything chinchou has and more.

    Its a solid choice, when I started making my team with nothing that was used much, my first thoughts went to a grass type and how I wouldn't find anything viable; oddish was superior stat wise but lack of regenerator made keeping it alive and meant it was just novelty, bulbasaur had a niche with knock off and some speed and special attack but again recovery was an issue, especially when I wanted to switch it into chinchou which could burn it and make things even worse, then I remembered budew has natural cure and maybe I could make use of spikes. There were several laughs over that last one. Then I realised, why not chose something that doesn't give a damn about burns, which didn't need high health or to wall so burns wouldn't cripple it, and since deerling hates burns and was almost as laughable as budew and that left bulbasaur. I went into the battles dreading the lack of something like foongus, a few battles in and it was much more fun and just as, if not more, effective. Also, I decided to try budew, maybe score an 'in your face it works!' on a bunch of people. It was death fodder most matches, got 2-3 layers of spikes -and, here is something to note, they are useless. murkrow and misdrevous are immune and they just weren't that useful, probably because I didn't have a sweeper that needed them or could abuse them.
     
  9. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    Another pokemon that I feel needs more usage is Dratini, more specific the LO Dragon Dance set with Fire Blast.

    Spr_2c_147.gif (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Even with a neutral Speed nature, Dratini reaches 14 speed. Which means after a Dragon Dance it will outpace the entire unboosted-LC Tier. Dratini's Outrage hits like a truck especially with LO and an attack boost. ExtremeSpeed hits Murkrow and Houndour who's Sucker Punches will fail. Fire Blast should really be used against Steel-types as it hits most pokemon harder. Blah, blah, blah, STRONG...

    Detailed Result: 244 +1 Atk Life Orb Dratini (+Atk) Outrage vs 236 HP/196 Def Eviolite Porygon (+Def) : 69.23% - 80.77%
    Detailed Result: 244 +1 Atk Life Orb Dratini (+Atk) Outrage vs 0 HP/0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 109.09% - 127.27%
    Detailed Result: 244 +1 Atk Life Orb Dratini (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 36 HP/20 Def Eviolite Murkrow: 56.52% - 65.22% (Lets add some Hazards?)
    Detailed Result: 244 +1 Atk Life Orb Dratini (+Atk) Outrage vs 76 HP/132 Def Eviolite Chinchou: 96% - 112% (Lets add some Hazards?)
    Detailed Result: 244 +1 Atk Life Orb Dratini (+Atk) Outrage vs 196 HP/196 Def Eviolite Riolu (+Def) : 91.3% - 104.35% (Lets add some Hazards?)

    @Trakyan: Why do you show Specs calcs when you are submitting Scarf Bulba? Typo?
    @Viamage: Can we submit more than one set?
     
  10. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    I love how your first calc is against porygon ;-; love that dratini, a very powerful and underrated mon

    and yeah feel free to submit as many as you like
     
  11. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    im submitting

    [​IMG] (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 40 SDef / 196 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Substitute
    - Iron Head

    i like this mon a lot. can set up on a lot. can beat some misdreavus and some mukrow. Hates chinchou. I was more excited to post this til i saw that dratini XD that thing looks pretty awesome
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  12. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    ohh, yeah the specs was leftover from something else, though i just realised that if murkrow roosts it will take cancel out the -2 since it lost its resistance which lets you stay in and threaten it some more. Also if they suckerpunch, which doesnt ko, you finish them off asuming they switched into rocks.

    Btw, now just cause I found it in your calcs, missy runs 36 HP even on offensive sets since those evs are leftover.

    Also i like that dratini set, the only problem i see is trying to set up without an eviolite in this metagame(and riolu is likely to copycat your outrage and KO you back which means it wont help you that it OHKOs. But yeah, i came back to this thread with the intention to add a restalk/d tail/extreme speed shed skin dratini. because getting a chance to wake up in a metagame with hard hitters liker missdrevous and murkrow is more important than a 50% boost when you can just end up being forced out continuously and stuck in perpetual sleep. E Speed is there for the suckerpunch, d tail stops missy setting up on you and is a nice stab move plus shuffling can be great with hazards and in general vs curse licki or whatever. But we can replace e speed with flamethrower to stop ferroseed stacking spikes on it or bronzor getting too happy, or thunderwave as a parashuffler like d nite in OU.
     
  13. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto if your world falls apart, i'd start a riot

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    Spr_2c_090.gif (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAkt)
    - Shell Smash
    - Rock Blast
    - Icicle Spear
    - Ice Shard

    Another hard hitter that can smash against teams that lack a solid check to Shellder. With Mienfoo gone its even easier. Everybody know the strategy, Shell Smash, Sweep, repeat next battle. Knock Off support from the likes of Vullaby and Dwebble would be appreciated turning 2HKOs into OHKOs. Ice Shard hits Murkrow hard before it can Sucker Punch. Icicle Spear and Rock Blast abuses Shellder's awesome ability Skill Link enabling them to hit 5 times 100% of the time. EV are standard, Max Attack and Speed to increase Shellder's offensive capabilities and the leftover EVs are placed into Defense. Coupled with Eviolite Shellder is really bulky before a SMASH, even after a SMASH its not frail at all.

    @Trakyan, Most offensive Misdreavus use Hidden Power Fighting which requires 30 Spd / SDef / SAtk / Def so the leftover 30 EVs cannot be placed somewhere. Also you're right about the Riolu calc.
     
  14. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    It seems we all have a lot of set up pokemon being looked at.... dual screens? And I agree that an eviolite dratini may work as well
     
  15. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    that's something we'll discuss after we decide if we're going to use one of those set up mons, but yeah dual screens is a possibility i could entertain. It also seems that we have quite a few submissions so I'm going to leave this open for another 24 hours before voting begins, but for now here's my own submission:


    Ferroseed (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 84 HP / 188 Def / 228 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes/ Stealth Rock
    - Bullet Seed

    Ferroseed is probably the most versatile hazard setter in the tier, but with the reintroduction of murkrow it saw a steady decline. however, it is till one of the best setters in the game. Ferroseed is the only pokemon in the entire tier that has access to spikes, stealth rocks and thunderwave. not to mention it also gets leech seed. his support movepool also contains toxic, so we can pretty much make this guy's moves into whatever the team needs later on. I think it's safe to say that this will be the best movepool. Bullet seed allows a 3 hit strike to break the sub of any murkrow not carrying an eviolite. stealth rock remains an option just in case we don't add another setter later on.

    If you need a pokemon to facilitate a sweep, ferroseed has you covered


    Going up early but Voting has begun!!!


    vote your three favorite by bolding them choices are:
    fitzy's LO Zorua

    (Zorua) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Illusion
    EVs: 200 Atk / 40 Def / 240 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Dark Pulse
    - Sucker Punch
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Extrasensory[/HIDE]

    fitzy's LO Minccino
    (Minccino) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 196 Atk / 76 SDef / 236 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Tail Slap
    - Aqua Tail
    - U-turn
    - Knock Off[/HIDE]

    Trakyan's support Lickitung
    Lickitung (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 40 SAtk / 156 SDef / 40 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Wish[/HIDE]

    Trakyan's LO Houndour
    Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 196 Atk / 40 Def / 196 SAtk / 76 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - Overheat[/HIDE]

    Trakyan's Scarf Bulbasaur
    Bulbasaur (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 236 SAtk / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Giga Drain
    - Leaf Storm
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder[/HIDE]

    Mylo Xyloto's Ddance Dratini
    Dratini(M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed[/HIDE]

    Not a cop's Swords Dance Pawniard
    Pawniard(M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 40 SDef / 196 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Substitute
    - Iron Head

    Mylo Xyloto's Shell Smash Sheller
    Shellder(M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAkt)
    - Shell Smash
    - Rock Blast
    - Icicle Spear
    - Ice Shard[/HIDE]

    and my support Ferroseed
    Ferroseed (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 84 HP / 188 Def / 228 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes/ Stealth Rock
    - Bullet Seed[/HIDE][/HIDE]

    voting will be scored in a 5,3,1 fashion giving your top vote 5 points, you 2nd 3, and 3rd 1. If there is no clear majority, all but the top two will be eliminated and voting will be redone. feel free to change your votes at anytime during the voting period. While voting consider the folliwing:
    -will the pokemon me a late game sweeper after it's few threats are eliminated?
    -will it be able to switch into many things and win to better facilitate other pokemon's sweep?
    -how effective will it be at supporting other mons?
    but above all...
    -Can we build a team around it?
    if we have to wait until the 2nd mon to start getting ideas of what our first mon is going to be doing, we probably shouldn't pick that as our first mon.
    any other suggestions on thoughts to consider are gladly appreciated

    as for now here are my votes:

    Mylo Xyloto's Ddane Dratini
    Trakyan's Support Lickitung
    Trakyan's houndour
     

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  16. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    I tried dratini for a few matches, it makes a nice check to foongus, nice for picking things off though dragon tail was prone to miss with subspammers like missdrevous and murkrow.

    Anyways, my vote is obvious for Houndour
    Next up is Mylo's Dratini
    Last up, but hardly least, is Bulbasaur

    -first edit-
    I really wanted to vote for Lickitung but I don't feel it's something to build a team around, more something you add later, but I want to see it in this team. Shelder was close by but I feel the metagame is geared towards countering it with porygon, chinchou and things popular. As you can see most of my votes are around offensive power or pressure because I found that one thing more than anything else in LC teambuilding is important: something to bring back the momentum. I once made a triple regenerator team with heal bell and great type synergy, but it was slow. Once a critical hit or something else to throw momentum in my face happened I would be fumbling around to stay alive, in a metagame where thing hit harder and momentum swings drastically you need something to get it back, powerful and fast -or in the case of my first two, priority.

    I just wanted people to take note of that because people seem to drift away from that later in the CCAT when they focus on glue and things.

    -second edit-
    I see this becoming an offensive CCAT, so I have a feeling some of these first round pokemon who don't get chosen will be coming back in the coming rounds.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
  17. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    i don't know as an anchor licki offers a lot to fall back on to keep your offense alive. I do agree with you on the shellder part though and that's also why i didn't vote for it. As far as the drifting goes, because licki is such a good anchor it acts as glue itself so we won't have too much problem filling in other offensive mons that can play off the licki.
    I too see us as an offensive ccat, most likely a bulky offense, and while the sets may come up again, I think that when we start looking more prominent pokemon such as porygon that they will find it harder to get picked overall
     
  18. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    If we chose lickitung i think picking porygon will open us up to timburr, im not too much of a fan of stacking types in a team without dual types

    by the way, i was thinking something more like hyper offense given the nature of most of the sets, life orbed or boosting. Ohh, and as for the dratini I would suggest, if we add lickitung or another wishpasser later, change it to eviolite since its hard to wishpass to a life orb set up sweeper. Just a suggestion
     
  19. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    shake my head, porygon was just an example.

    I can't say much about playstyle just yet to be honest, but if necessary set changes can happen
     
  20. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    dratini (if it sets up something is in trouble)
    houndour (I've played with LO houndour and its no joke)
    ferroseed (would've put higher but i feel as if we would be forced to use misdreavus as a spin blocker)
     
  21. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    gonna leave this open for a few more hours because i'm going out, hopefully more people will vote, otherwise I'm just going to tally up and move on
     
  22. Pokemon United

    Pokemon United Member

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    Votes:

    Trakyan's support Lickitung

    Not a cop's Swords Dance Pawniard



    Trakyan's Lickitung is a premier special wall, and when paired with Slowpoke makes probably the best defensive core in LC.


    Not a cop's Swords Dance Pawniard works just like Bisharp, set up and then proceed to destroy. With access to SP and Iron Head makes it extremely strong and a major threat in LC.
     
  23. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    The "numerous" votes have been cast and the results are in:

    Mylo Xyloto's Ddance Dratini 13
    Trakyan's Houndour 9
    Trakyan's Support Lickitung 8
    Trakyan's Scarf Bulbasaur 1
    viamage's support ferroseed 1
    Not a cop's Swords Dance Pawniard 1

    since only 4 people voted and 13 is 1 over the limit of 3x4=12 i'm just going to declare Mylo's Ddance Dratini the winner so here it is again people


    aaadratini.png
    Dratini (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Shed Skin
    EVs: 244 Atk / 36 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed

    moving onto step 2: now is the time to discuss what dratini needs, don't just post a set without considering what can help dratini out. Also note that at this time you may start naming more mainstream pokemon while bearing in mind that dratini's role in this team must still remain the most important.

    Questions that must be answered, note: not all of them have to apply to the next pokemon, but at least one must:
    1) Does the pokemon synergize well enough to bring in bait for dratini?
    2) Does the pokemon take care of threats that can stop dratini from sweeping?
    3) does the pokemon setup entry hazards and/or status to help facilitate a sweep?
    4) How well can this pokemon help to win if we lose dratini?
     
  24. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    ran some calcs and this thing can't take much. but i did find it interesting it can set up once on missy. it'd basically be guaranteed to die in the next few turns to recoil... but still... so dratini can easily set up on some resisted hits.............

    or perhaps some weakened hits...
    i believe a set that can weaken the opponents attack such as dual screens or momento may be of use. example being:

    Diglett (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Stealth Rock/ Substitute/ Sucker Punch
    - Memento

    while he doesn't bring in bait for dratini , with memento he can turn almost any pokemon into set up bait immediately
    with earthquake he can take out magnemite and some of the more rare steel types in lc which could potentially cause trouble for dratini.
    he has memento and potentially stealth rock to help sweep
    even if dratini goes down diglett is still diglett which means he can trap and kill many pokemon in lc.
     
  25. Trakyan

    Trakyan Member

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    Lickitung (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 40 SAtk / 156 SDef / 40 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Wish

    This guy helps take hits dratini cant, it's also a nice way to get rid of murkrow which can cut short dratini's sweep with a well timed suckerpunch. It can also wishpass for dratini to set up on something like chinchou or to heal the damage from any hit taken on the switch.

    Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 196 Atk / 40 Def / 196 SAtk / 76 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Flamethrower
    - Dark Pulse
    - Overheat

    Yeah i dont know if im going to let this rest without it being chosen. But it's actually very useful here. Dratini suffers from steel types even with a fire move im thinking, also some of the bulky pokemon in the tier like missy, porygonb and chinchou can take a hit and retaliate, maybe even foongus or whatever. Houndour kills those steels and softens up anything dratini may need, it hits foongus and misdrevous super effectively, same with steel types and can 2HKO chinchou and porygon just weaken them for dratini to sweep. A double LO could be risky, but this would be a very hard hitting core, the fact both of them have priority is very useful. It can also clean up very well if dratini fails to finish the match.

    Basically it can tie up loose ends or soften things up.

    Though with these two slower attackers we would need one fast attacker/scarfer and dratini will need hazards, this could end up being a rather offensive team which means murkrow will be a big issue.
     
  26. not a cop

    not a cop Member

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    maybe a slightly faster houndour.
    Houndour (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Early Bird
    EVs: 72 Atk / 200 SAtk / 236 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Blast
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    not too different from trakyans houndour....
    stab sucker punch still hits hard with life orb backing it plus (although it is noticeably weaker)
    its special attacks are just as powerful and it has better coverage with the addition of hp grass. which helps with chinchou and the loads of less common pokemon 4x weak to it.
    it can speed tie/outspeed pokemon like riolu/drilbur/chinchou/magnemite/pawniard/snover/dwebble/tentacool/cranidos/drifloon/cranidos/vullaby/dratini/corphish/horsea
    in addition to the pokemon trakyans houndour would outspeed.

    just an additional option that i know i personally prefer
     
  27. (Lisalo.)

    (Lisalo.) Member

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    Hmmmm... If we include a SR weak mon we could use a Spinner... Drillbur? He can also set up SR which is useful
     
  28. viamage

    viamage That one guy

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    well activity isn't really optimal so I'd say this project is a bust, maybe someday we will have a successful ccat, but it is not this day

    Edit: As per Viamage's request, I'm locking this. Yet another thing wasted. - Weavile
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2013
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