[NOC] [Expert] Great Expectations Invitational Mafia (Game Over, Mafia Win!)

Discussion in 'Forum Games' started by Hey Day, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    ...I really can't be bothered arguing with obvious scum anymore. I'm just going to be parroting.

    In other news, BebbZ trying his whole "Everyone voting me is likely scum technique" is pretty scummy to be fair, and his Li Q analogy is just weird.
     
  2. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Tell me, how do attempts to start discussions can be bad? I've been doing it since my second post on this thread. I'm trying to make associations, I'm replying to anything you ask me, I've responded to your awful vote on me. I'm prodding others. How is this bad? Do you need me to quote them?

    I've also got 4 candidates for a three man scum team. My problem with what I'm thinking is that something is simply not making sense, a "missing link" you say. But I think I got an explanation for these defenses, even though there is still some part missing. Here it is what I think:

    The general, either MeowMix or Michu, has invited BebbZ and Michu/MeowMix for their team. While the targets for the general's action were Marcello and someone else (who wasn't KX - he was easily lynched). When Fegelein openly started today with his will to lynch Marcello, the scumteam decided it would be better to preserve the general's target. How could they do so? Trying to get someone else lynched, and the easiest way to do so is getting one of them out, so BebbZ acted in a very weak manner to town. (I know that there is something missing on this tale, that's why I'm a bit unsure about it being completely right)
    Why'd they do it? I'm really not sure... maybe to get the other two "cleaned".
    Why am I following it to cooperate with them? I don't know. I need to reread the thread to decide it.

    Sincerely, I don't think that Marcello is that scum as Fegelein says, but to be completely sure of any of the positions I'll have to reread the thread, so I'll make another post, either reinforcing this opinion of mine or refuting it, so I'd probably completely agree with Fegelein, or having a completely new one. This post was made mostly with recent impressions I got about the game, so I really need to reread it.

    First part - Now that I've just said you're wrong about me, can you tell me why can't this be applied to you?
    Second part - And this is the reason we shouldn't play a Mafia game with any kind of bias, like you have even claimed to be at some point, I was trying to get a better view of you, so I wasn't voting for you at that time. And is THIS the reason you're considering me for scum? What have we done differently to each other? I've already said on this post what I have done to differentiate from others. What did you do?
    What it boils down to is you're saying that I could be scum for some things we both did. Because I know I am town, I think you could be town as well, because of these facts. So, if you're town, STOP thinking like this, because you're really harming our team. If you're scum... keep doing it ^.^ I'll love to lynch you <3

    brb posting another time after reading this thread once more.
     
  3. Marcello.

    Marcello. Ethereal Horizon

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    Even though the bolded last part makes a little less sense, this made me do a double take when I read it purely for the fact that it's an actual possibility (and something I had already been the victim of during SS (Scumteam prolonging the amount of time they kept me in the game)).
     
  4. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    It's a shame that the scum have managed to get a townie on their side on this lynch. Since it's pretty obvious I'm not part of a three man scum team with Fegelein (who is clean) and TIWSS, the only way we're gonna win this game is if the town-sided member of the people voting me realises their mistake.

    However if I am voted out, I hope you guys don't make the same mistakes again tomorrow, if a townie is misled by scum again, we've probably lost.
     
  5. Jalmont

    Jalmont nothere

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    I agree with this 100% and since I want to emulate my idol I'm going to use this strategy (since it's brought so much success) as well. I'm not going to bother posting or arguing with anyone, I'm just going remain steadfast in my opinions (more like facts LOL) and ignore anyone who happens to disagree with me, since, after all, they are beneath me.
     
  6. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    After reading the most distant parts of this thread, taking a few notes, I've got an opinion (explained at the bottom of this post).

    Let me try to resume the most important points I got:
    (sorry about no direct links to the posts, I'm too lazy, mainly after this whole work - the purple parts are my thoughts and are purely interpretation)

    - Page 1:
    The day starts: At this point, we don't know that IFM and Fegelein are clean nor we know that KX is town.
    [video=youtube;3YK3XmGuDcs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YK3XmGuDcs[/video]
    Meow and Fege start pushing a lynch on that poor dog.
    Marcello keeps pressurizing him woth words - but no vote at all. My reads about it? Marcello says: "Hey, KX is bad! Vote him guys, while I idle! - After getting the information that KX is clean, I think that Marcello didn't want to vote KX because he knew KX would flip town anyways, so he couldn't be accused of lynching a townie."

    - Page 2:
    IFM votes KX.
    Fegelein suggests a way to try to find the scum, by asking me a question: if IFM could be chosen conspirator. Marcello says this is a bad idea. Why? Was he afraid that many people would suggest his name on being recruited?
    BebbZ agrees with Marcello that it would be a bad idea. Another afraid guy? And he says KX is the best vote, but he votes me. I understand the reason he didn't vote KX: he was already on L-2, so he decides to pick me. Why? Because I didn't do a constructive post within 1 hour and 12 min.
    Fegelein suggests that there is something wrong with Marcello.
    KX would like to have me and Marcello as his scumbuddies. He votes BebbZ because of scum-like behaviour.
    I asked for people to post who would they pick for consps if they were the general. No one ever replied to this. Then I reply to BebbZ's vote.
    TIWSS evidences a Meow's scummish post. Says KX's reaction was ok. BebbZ and Marcello seem to be scum. He says Meow should be pressured, but does nothing regard this. e.g. vote. KX does the same about Meow But he flipped town.
    Michu says people should try to have more effort on their posts. But he didn't do it himself.
    Meow keeps supporting his page 1 "joke".
    Michu dodges KX's accusations.

    - Page 3:
    Marcello says he has done things to be suspected about TIWSS and Fegelein. Because agreeing is better than denying.
    I say Meow is scum.
    Marcello says that BebbZ's reason to vote me was ok and I was suspicious because I voted MeowMix.
    TIWSS compares BebbZ's and Meow's reply to that, with a possible manipulation of things said. Marcello is suspicious for him.
    KX says that Meow and Michu are scum, while IFM and BebbZ are suspicious. He votes Michu.
    Michu votes Fegelein as an incentive ???
    Meow wants to hear who would be KX's scumbuddies if he was the general.
    I said there was a possibility Meow was just carring KX lynch, being a joke or not, if no pressure was put on him.
    KX says he could pick Marcello and either me or BebbZ for his scum team.
    I unvoted Meow because of his #105 argument.
    Meow asks TIWSS why he wasn't convinced on a KX lynch.
    Fege says that TIWSS could be town.

    - Page 4:
    Fegelein says: Fegelein is town, IFM is town, BebbZ is scum, KX is null " it's always nice to get a different viewpoint on the game", Fegelein said, TIWSS is town, Li Q. Assir is town, Marcello is scum, MeowMix is scum, Michu is scum. Sorry about the generalizations, just to make posting easier. He votes Marcello.
    BebbZ finally unvotes.
    TIWSS said he was on the fence about lynching KX.
    I prodvote Michu. I disagree with Fegelein's read on Marcello. I justify my no vote on BebbZ due to bias.
    I've noticed I didn't reply to this: votes can be unvoted. I wanted to put some more pressure on you, because I thought you could be scum.
    TIWSS says he'd prefer a Marcello lynch over a KX.
    BebbZ votes KX because of his "poor town play". He also says that Fegelein is probably town. So I guess BebbZ didn't know that he was following the prince, this way I think that that argument used by Marcello to say that Fegelein wasn't suspecting BebbZ because he agreed with him, doesn't have an actual influence to the game.
    Fegelein insists on thinking that Marcello is scum, because Marcello didn't vote me, while he was attacking me. He also suggests that Michu could be chainsawing Meow.
    Marcello: first post against KX was a wait to see his reaction, then KX is the most scum, then he isn't sure about this lynch - in a single paragraph! This was an worse explanation than that "L-1 this early game is bad".
    Fegelein's order on who should be lynched: Marcello > MeowMix > Michu > BebbZ > KX THRESHOLD > IFM > Li Q. Assir > TIWSS
    Michu selfvotes, tying with KX, both at L-2. IFM dislikes it. Meow dislikes it. BebbZ dislikes it.
    IFM claims, followed by Fegelein.
    Meow says that IFM claiming was ok but the impression I got is that he wasn't that happy about this, because IFM was "in no danger of being lynched" (sic). He also says that the best would be a KX lynch, but a BebbZ would be ok.
    TIWSS starts a discussion about on whom should the loyalist go on. He says he'd lynch Marcello or KX (preferrably the former) a little bit contradicting to what he had said previously about KX, but not completely - he also doesn't vote Marcello - noticed by Fegelein. He finally asks Marcello and KX who should the Loyalist go on.
    BebbZ asks Fege about his lynch priority list and how would a flip afffect the next day.

    - Page 5:
    I unvoted Michu. I wasn't probably getting online before the deadline.
    KX suggests Loyalist should target me.
    Then follows a discussion about who should IFM target and blah, blah, blah...
    TIWSS votes Marcello, asking him to defend himself.
    I leave without much hope that I'll get a vote before deadline.
    Then Michu starts (finally!!!) defending himself from my accusations.
    TIWSS says that Marcello is scum due to his poor ealry game play.
    KX votes MeowMix. He asks HD what would happen in case of a tie.
    Deadline. And all of that deadline truobles happened. KX is lynched, flips town.

    So... I got two biggest conclusion possibilities:
    - BebbZ is scum. If this is true, which is really possible to be, considering his posts, he should be lynched immediatelly. His scumbuddies are probably voting Marcello, to try to save him. However, one of them is clean and the other got the most town reads in the thread. Actually, it is really difficult to make any associations of possible BebbZ's scumbuddies. If he is scum... I can't see no one else being scum, because they really attacked him hard (except Michu, who is... himself, and Marcello, who is probably defending himself).
    - Marcello is scum. If this is true, it is easy to track who are his scumbuddies: Meow insistently willing to defend him and Michu who is... himself voting BebbZ. Finito.

    I know that there are other possibilities, if we had a very fertile imagination we could think on anything. But I prefer to work with facts and mathematics. Due to the difficulty of getting a read on BebbZ's team, I'd prefer to vote Marcello right now (actually, it is Meow, who used a desperate argument for me to stop pressuring him - I don't know why I fell for that). I'd even risk to say that BebbZ is just a townie posting very awfully. However, both BebbZ and Marcello's posts aren't really good.

    Unvote
    Vote Marcello
    .

    In case he flips town, I'd recommend we should get either BebbZ or MeowMix (I've explained why Meow on some previous post), but preferrably BebbZ.
     
  7. Hey Day

    Hey Day Argumentum ad ignorantium

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    Votecount 2.3

    Marcello. - 4 - ThatIsWhatSheSaid, Fegelein, BebbZ , Li Q. Assir (L-1)
    BebbZ - 3 - MeowMix, Michu, Marcello. (L-2)
    Li Q. Assir - 1 - IFM (L-4)

    If deadline were to hit right now, Marcello. would be lynched.

    Mod Announcements:

    • No one needs a prod.

    With 8 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
    Deadline is April 19, 2013, 8:00 PM EST.
     
  8. ThatIsWhatSheSaid

    ThatIsWhatSheSaid seasoned vet

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    ifm hammer plz
    yes this is a prod dodge
     
  9. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    I think it would be fair if I asked you the same.
    Marcello, why is BebbZ a better lynch target than you?
     
  10. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    No one hammer. Reading through everything again and if I am ready to proceed I will drop it.
     
  11. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    Ok, we still have 5 days. Right now I would support either a Marcello lynch. I think the scum slip by Marcello was quite telling and I'm not really buying it that he says it wasn't a slip. If you are town you are never going to guarentee that another player is 100% town as you wouldn't have that information and it could be potentially harmful if he flips scum. As a result I am willing to vote Marcello, but I'd like to wait a little bit to have a tiny bit of discussion.

    I want everyone to answer these questions.

    Who is your strongest town read right now (outside of me and marc)?

    Who is your strongest scum read right now (outside of marc)?

    What is your opinion on the Marc lynch?

    If you were general what two players would you pick to be scum and which two would you choose to kill?
     
  12. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    ALSO NO ONE FUCKING HAMMER IF I AM SATISFIED WITH THE VOTE AFTER EVERYONE HAS ANSWERED AND WE DISCUSS A BIT MORE THEN I WILL DO IT.

    ALSO ANSWER IN YOUR FIRST POST AS SOON AS YOU SEE IT. I WILL BE MONITERING THE WHO HAS READ THE THREAD SECTION TO MAKE SURE.
     
  13. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    Meant to be Feg not marc in the first question.
     
  14. ThatIsWhatSheSaid

    ThatIsWhatSheSaid seasoned vet

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    not much time must get back to studying

    Uh we have less than 2 days if I'm not mistaken (thread title says dl on the 19th).

    Strongest town read I really dunno at this point. prolly either Li or Michu with Meow a close third but I could see any of em being scum. cop out answer ik

    Strongest scum read besides Marc is Bebbz.

    In order of who I think are scum: Marc -> Bebbz -> Meow -> Michu/Li

    My opinion on the Marc. lynch has been pretty publicly voiced.

    That last one would consider some serious thought which I don't have time for as much as I'd actually put into it. I'd prolly pick IFM cuz I like his playstyle and Marc. cuz I feel between the two of us our posting could help control the flow of the game. I wouldn't really worry about the "obvious" picks cuz we could just disregard it as WIFOM.

    I'd pick targets to kill based on who seems to be alive late game. KX always plays very pro-town if he's town so I'd go for him (even tho hindsight is 50-50) and Michu always seems to find a way to be alive late game so he'd be number two.
     
  15. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    strongest town read right now is probably TIWSS, but I would never put it past him to be be scum

    strongest scum read is BEBBZ (holy shit lynch please)

    opinion on the marc lynch: not the best lynch for today, that would be bebbz.

    if I were the general, I would have picked Michu and IFM, and killed Marcello and TIWSS
     
  16. IFM

    IFM HODOR HODOR HODOR

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    Sorry I misread the 5 to lynch to mean that we had 5 days until lynch. Either way I would like everyone to answer.
     
  17. Jalmont

    Jalmont nothere

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    MeowMix (tbh don't have any real strong town reads atm)

    Bebbz

    bad

    recruit tiwss and li q kill meowmix IFM

    question thingys are dumb
     
  18. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    Scum: Fegelein and Marc. Kill: IFM and KX.

    Fegelein and Marcello. because I wouldn't like the kind of erratic (effective but not my preference) play that some of the other players offer and I feel I know these two better than most others (in terms of forum mafia playing style).

    IFM and KX because they are two really experienced players that would be likely to survive into the late game and dangerous to my team if left alive. Clearly I was wrong on the first point.
     
  19. NAVIDAD PIRATE

    NAVIDAD PIRATE THE PLEASURE OF BEING CUMMED INSIDE

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    uhh, what are you looking for in people's posts that would incriminate them as the general as opposed to one of the conspirators?
     
  20. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Who is your strongest town read right now (outside of me and feg)?
    TIWSS, followed by Li Q.
    Who is your strongest scum read right now (outside of marc)?
    MeowMix, then Michu, then BebbZ.
    What is your opinion on the Marc lynch?
    I HATE IT.
    If you were general what two players would you pick to be scum and which two would you choose to kill?
    TIWSS and IFM for scumbuddies, kill Marcello and BebbZ.
     
  21. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Mainly because I'm lazy, and he's pretty much confirmed scum. There's no real point anymore arguing with him, I'm wasting my time.
     
  22. Marcello.

    Marcello. Ethereal Horizon

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    Who is your strongest town read right now (outside of me and marc)?
    This question is quite difficult for me. I know I am town, so that automatically rules out 3 players who I myself view as clean. Of the remaining, I'll admit in terms of play style TIWSS has been playing most pro-town, but I have strong misgivings about his alignment. As for who I feel is most town, I'd be inclined to say Li Q. I just feel that his general play thus far has been more productive than the other remaining players, and he's for the most part generated useful discussion.
    Who is your strongest scum read right now (outside of marc)?
    Referencing above, TIWSS or BebbZ. BebbZ seems far too eager to play the sheep and follow Fegelein through on my lynch, and I'd argue his reasoning for doing so is more suspect than anything I have done this game. If he were town, I do not believe he would simply "put his trust" in a player who has been challenged by numerous players, he'd make his own decisions (something we all know he is more than capable of).
    What is your opinion on the Marc lynch?
    "Bullshit". I've made my opinion very strong and I still stand by it.
    If you were general what two players would you pick to be scum and which two would you choose to kill?
    Probably the easiest of all of these questions for me. I'd scum TIWSS (for the same reason he stated about choosing me, our posting tempo/style could control most the game), and Li Q., as I feel going into this game he would have been one of the players least closely attributed with scum play. For who I'd kill, it'd have to be Fegelein and IFM. I know from past games Fegelein can be massively pro-town, and incredibly hard to swing a lynch against, so I'd want a degree of insurance as per his removal. IFM is a player I am always incredibly wary of with regards to Mafia games, for the simple fact I know he has a knack for controlling the flow of the game, and removing a player like him could strongly disrupt the Village's tempo.
     
  23. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Marcello actually has a point about BebbZ to be fair.

    I still think Marc is scum, but it's interesting to note.
     
  24. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    I've already mentioned that I prefer the MeowMix vote. However I feel if the town splits their vote and the scum do not, we're looking at D3 being worst case scenario: We hit general or lose. Best case scenario: MYLO. I'm not sheeping Fegelein, I'm just willing to lynch one scum before another. I can see how it could be interpreted as scummy however I see it as the only way to ensure the town lynch scum today.
     
  25. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    Even if/when Marcello flips scum, I think we should be at least cautious of BebbZ.
     
  26. Marcello.

    Marcello. Ethereal Horizon

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    So wait, your argument is you want to help the Village ensure they make a productive lynch today, but you'd rather lynch someone who currently has zero lynches as opposed to the guy most of the thread seemingly thinks is confirmed scum? (I'm not!)

    I know by continuing this I'm (almost!) tunneling but I'm perceiving this as you wanting to delay lynching me knowing full well I'll be lynched the following day, wasting another day's lynch.
     
  27. Marcello.

    Marcello. Ethereal Horizon

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    On another note Fegelein you should lean more if than when with regards to myself. Just sayin'
     
  28. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    Don't worry, I intend to prove myself town by lynching all of the scum. I'm fairly sure that once Marcello. flips scum, the hasty defence of the others will reveal them as his scumbuddies.

    However as always I urge that we don't consider anyone "clean" as a result of lynching a scum today. That goes for me and everyone else. I feel it's likely that the three M's are the scumteam but everyone here are cunning players at the end of the day, so we'll see.
     
  29. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    No, I want you lynched because I'm confident enough by the bandwagon that you are in fact scum. However I do still feel the scummiest player is MeowMix. But a divided town is weak, hence I want to lynch you today, for the sake of the town. I'm afraid you've misunderstood me there. I have full confidence that you're going to flip scum. And my fingers are tightly crossed that you are the General.
     
  30. Marcello.

    Marcello. Ethereal Horizon

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    Here's a notion BebbZ - what if I don't flip scum? How will you respond in that scenario?

    In fact, that's a good question for you all.
     
  31. ThatIsWhatSheSaid

    ThatIsWhatSheSaid seasoned vet

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    I'm really not seeing what makes me scummy at this point in the game. Other than the fact that you've mentioned I shouldn't be treated as "clean" (which of course I know otherwise but I agree with you on principle ^_^) this really seems to be coming out of nowhere for me. Can you point to places where you've made reference to why you think I'm scum? Cuz at this point it just looks like OMGUS to me.

    Bebbz's vote on Marc. shouted scum but I don't see why his willingness to settle for a compromise lynch on Marc is scummy. I still think he's our next-best chance at hitting scum outside of Marc. but I wanna caution people against seeing whats there as opposed to simply seeing what you wanna see.
     
  32. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Fegelein! ^.^ Just kidding, I've seen your fix. Actually, except from myself, I can't particularly see any town reads. Most of you are saying TIWSS, and I agree that he is my weakest scum read... which is more or less the same, isn't it? But I can't take out of my mind that I was really convinced that he was town last game (I even told Latimaster to invite him to our SS!!), that's why I'm not completely convinced that he is town... he may surprise us! But, I can't identify anything really scummy or, at least, not pro-town on what he has said.

    Outside of Marc? Is he even my strongest scum read? I've stated that I'd prefer a MeowMix lynch. I really believe that he is scummier than Marcello. However, no one but me and BebbZ seem to think like this.
    BebbZ is also another scum read, but weaker than Meow, and really difficult to try to figure out his scumbuddies (I'd say Fegelein, if he wasn't clean, so no scumbuddies at all for BebbZ), that's why I feel that BebbZ himself particularly may be scum, but there is no group for him.

    Not bad, but could be better... I mean, if it makes a real difference that we lynch a scum (Meow) today and another scum tomorrow (Marcello).

    ^ @#65

    I'd kill KX/Fegelein and Michu.
    KX/Fegelein is a very good town player when he is town-sided the later the game is. Michu has an unkown hidden ability that allows him to dodge any accusations against him... survivng till late game.
    (Three options just in case one of them was chosen by random for scumbuddies ^.^)

    Thanks for the credits about the idea, IFM >:( That's plagiarism!!!
    jk, jk :P
    But seriously, guys, do you do it NOW?
    lol @ hide tabs spam
    Ok, I've stopped now
     
  33. Jalmont

    Jalmont nothere

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    me 2 maaaaaaan
     
  34. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    ^ @#265
    With the current mindset, considering you're town: I'd say, I was right when I said the bolded parts on this ^ post.
    However, it is unlikely that BebbZ could be Meow's scumbuddy and this is what is disturbing me right now about it...

    ................
    hmmm...
    ......

    TIWSS, what are your opinions about BebbZ?
     
  35. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Oh, yeah, elaborate better than this ^
     
  36. BebbZ

    BebbZ Member

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    I really don't feel that's likely. I would be very, very surprised and accept the blame for my misread, however I'm confident enough that you and MeowMix are scum. It's whether or not Michu or Li Q. is the extra member that bothers me.

    My response would be to continue the game normally though, and continue to try to remove the scum and win the game for the village.
     
  37. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    Oh, and I was thinking...

    In case we mislynch today, we need to be aware that if anyone misvotes tomorrow, the scum trio may just hammer.

    We CAN'T fail at all tomorrow, even in a single vote.

    Hopefully, it won't be necessary and we'll have a way to put some pressure through the votes and the scum will be outvoted TODAY.
     
  38. ThatIsWhatSheSaid

    ThatIsWhatSheSaid seasoned vet

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    Bebbz has been sheeping a lot (his vote on Marc. was particularly poorly reasoned). He seems to be pressuring fairly randomly (I thought his vote on you early in the game was pretty arbitrary) and all in all I haven't seen much from him to think he's town sided.

    If you want more I can go iso his posts but im lazy atm.
     
  39. Fegelein

    Fegelein The Mechanic

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    PO Trainer Name:
    Fegelein
    hsmmmmmer marcc please now
     
  40. Li Q. Assir

    Li Q. Assir Mindblower

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    We wanted an extention yesterday. HD Hammerdeadlines.

    No one is speaking right now. No deadline.

    fml