Here's a log of a DN game earlier today. Sorry the bit got cut off, didn't save log in time. Spoiler: log (16:21:47) +Fate Testarossa: wtf is that word kland Basically all that happened before this is Misa Amane and Fate Testarossa claimed Mafia. (16:21:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:21:50) Times Up! : (16:21:50) ±Kill: Itome5432 (Matsuda) died! (16:21:50) ±Game: You were killed during the night! (16:21:50) ±Kill: Miki Sayaka (Aizawa) died! (16:21:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:21:50) ±Current Roles: Eraldo Coil, L, Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near, Ryuk, Soichiro Yagami. (16:21:50) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, KKKStriker, Leonez, Misa Amane, Perspective, RiceKirby, Thanatos, kland. (16:21:50) ±Time: Day 1 (Standby) (16:21:50) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (16:21:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:21:54) *************************************************************************************** (16:21:54) ±Game: Light Yagami writes the name of KKKStriker in his Death Note! KKKStriker dies of a heart attack! (16:21:54) ±Kill: KKKStriker (Soichiro Yagami) died! (16:21:54) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:00) kland: lol light killed his bad (16:22:00) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:00) ±Game: A special news report from Interpol! L has asked that Fate Testarossa be sentenced to death! (16:22:00) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:01) kland: dad (16:22:06) +Fate Testarossa: oh (16:22:08) RiceKirby: Hi Fate (16:22:08) Leonez: yeah..he claimed (16:22:08) KKKStriker: [Dead] come on (16:22:09) +Fate Testarossa: shoulda claimed near (16:22:09) Leonez: rofl (16:22:10) +Fate Testarossa: whoops (16:22:12) Thanatos: Man Fate Testarossa you didn't lie (16:22:14) Misa Amane: nah (16:22:17) Itome5432: [Dead] rip (16:22:20) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:20) ±Current Roles: Eraldo Coil, L, Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near, Ryuk. Village: 4 votes. Mafia: 5.1 votes and a voteshield. (16:22:20) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Leonez, Misa Amane, Perspective, RiceKirby, Thanatos, kland. (16:22:20) ±Time: Day 1 (Voting) (16:22:20) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (16:22:20) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:20) kland: wait (16:22:22) kland: Thanatos is light (16:22:23) ±Game: kland shot at Thanatos! (16:22:24) ±Game: Thanatos shot at Fate Testarossa! (16:22:27) ±Game: Fate Testarossa shot at Thanatos! (16:22:27) ±Game: Misa Amane shot at Thanatos! (16:22:32) Thanatos: k (16:22:35) Thanatos: I'm L (16:22:36) RiceKirby: Huh, wat to believe? (16:22:36) kland: get Thanatos (16:22:37) KKKStriker: [Dead] dont throw like tht (16:22:37) Itome5432: [Dead] wait (16:22:38) Leonez: light isnt even a threat (16:22:38) kland: he's light (16:22:39) Thanatos: but w/v (16:22:44) Itome5432: [Dead] village (16:22:46) Leonez: >mello + near (16:22:47) Itome5432: [Dead] is garbage (16:22:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:50) Times Up! : (16:22:50) ±Game: Thanatos (L) died! (16:22:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:50) ±Current Roles: Eraldo Coil, Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near, Ryuk. (16:22:50) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Leonez, Misa Amane, Perspective, RiceKirby, kland. (16:22:50) ±Time: Night 2 (16:22:50) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (16:22:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:22:54) Itome5432: [Dead] this village (16:22:54) KKKStriker: [Dead] LOL (16:22:54) +Fate Testarossa: kland wtf (16:22:55) kland: well that was easy (16:22:57) Thanatos: [Dead] I blame Fate Testarossa (16:22:58) Itome5432: [Dead] jesus fucking christ (16:23:03) Leonez: HI NEAR (16:23:07) kland: n i'm light (16:23:08) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:23:09) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:23:10) kland: i claimed n1 (16:23:13) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:23:14) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:23:14) Leonez: Misa Amane (16:23:18) Leonez: prob gave u info (16:23:18) Itome5432: [Dead] where was eraldo? or matsuda? (16:23:20) *************************************************************************************** (16:23:20) Times Up! : (16:23:20) ±Kill: Perspective (Eraldo Coil) died! (16:23:20) *************************************************************************************** (16:23:20) ±Current Roles: Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near, Ryuk. Town already cannot win even if there was only xfire. (16:23:20) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Leonez, Misa Amane, RiceKirby, kland. (16:23:20) ±Time: Day 2 (Standby) (16:23:20) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (16:23:20) *************************************************************************************** (16:23:20) Leonez: Zzz (16:23:25) Itome5432: [Dead] perspective (16:23:27) kland: so (16:23:27) Thanatos: [Dead] I hate everyone (16:23:27) Itome5432: [Dead] nice choke (16:23:34) Misa Amane: ok (16:23:35) Thanatos: [Dead] ^ (16:23:36) kland: RiceKirby is ryu (16:23:39) Perspective: [Dead] mafia outvoted (16:23:40) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:23:40) Perspective: [Dead] so (16:23:41) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:23:41) Leonez: well (16:23:42) RiceKirby: Confirming (16:23:42) KKKStriker: [Dead] light got ryuk (16:23:43) Cirno left the channel. (16:23:43) Cirno joined the channel. (16:23:44) Leonez: ruk and light (16:23:46) Itome5432: [Dead] no they didnt (16:23:48) Thanatos: [Dead] ^ (16:23:48) Itome5432: [Dead] ??? (16:23:49) +Fate Testarossa: wtf is with these dces (16:23:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:23:50) ±Current Roles: Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near, Ryuk. (16:23:50) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Leonez, Misa Amane, RiceKirby, kland. (16:23:50) ±Time: Day 2 (Voting) (16:23:50) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (16:23:50) *************************************************************************************** (16:23:50) Leonez: need one scrub out (16:23:54) ±Game: kland shot at RiceKirby! (16:23:55) Perspective: [Dead] near outvotes (16:23:55) Perspective: [Dead] me (16:23:56) kland: i think ryuk (16:23:58) kland: he can kill twice (16:24:00) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:24:00) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:24:02) RiceKirby: Wow kland bad move (16:24:03) Thanatos: [Dead] Matsuda (16:24:03) Itome5432: [Dead] arent you +3 (16:24:04) Thanatos: [Dead] soooo (16:24:05) RiceKirby: I'm alone pls (16:24:05) Itome5432: [Dead] ??? (16:24:06) Misa Amane: + (16:24:06) ±Game: RiceKirby shot at kland! (16:24:07) Misa Amane: write (16:24:09) ±Game: Misa Amane shot at RiceKirby! (16:24:10) Perspective: [Dead] 2 (16:24:10) ±Game: Fate Testarossa shot at RiceKirby! (16:24:13) ±Game: Leonez shot at kland! (16:24:13) Perspective: [Dead] they nerfed (16:24:14) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:14) Times Up! : (16:24:14) ±Game: RiceKirby (Ryuk) died! (16:24:14) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:14) ±Current Roles: Light Yagami, Matsuda, Mello, Near. (16:24:14) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Leonez, Misa Amane, kland. (16:24:14) ±Time: Night 3 (16:24:14) Make your moves, you only have 30 seconds! : (16:24:14) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:14) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:24:15) Itome5432: [Dead] matsuda+eraldo (16:24:16) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:24:16) +Fate Testarossa: kland still wins, lmfao (16:24:18) Itome5432: [Dead] =win (16:24:22) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:24:23) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:24:23) RiceKirby: [Dead] Even killing twice I was the minor threat there (16:24:24) KKKStriker: [Dead] mad choice mello (16:24:29) Leonez: < (16:24:31) Leonez: dont (16:24:32) Leonez: mello (16:24:33) Leonez: dont (16:24:37) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:24:37) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:24:40) +Fate Testarossa: sorry giving kland the win (16:24:44) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:44) Times Up! : (16:24:44) ±Kill: Leonez (Matsuda) died! (16:24:44) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:44) ±Current Roles: Light Yagami, Mello, Near. (16:24:44) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, Misa Amane, kland. (16:24:44) ±Time: Day 3 (Standby) (16:24:44) You have 30 seconds to debate who are the bad guys! : (16:24:44) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:44) Leonez: [Dead] , (16:24:46) Itome5432: [Dead] kland is as good at mafia as he is in pokemon (16:24:47) kland: right (16:24:48) KKKStriker: [Dead] LOL (16:24:49) +Fate Testarossa: o (16:24:49) Itome5432: [Dead] im scared (16:24:49) kland: who has + vote (16:24:52) Misa Amane: both (16:24:53) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:53) ±Game: Light Yagami writes the name of Misa Amane in his Death Note! Misa Amane dies of a heart attack! (16:24:53) ±Kill: Misa Amane (Near) died! (16:24:53) *************************************************************************************** (16:24:56) +Fate Testarossa: we both 1v1 you anyways (16:24:57) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:24:58) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:25:00) kland: o really (16:25:00) Lightning_Plazma left the channel. (16:25:00) KKKStriker: [Dead] ^ (16:25:01) Lightning_Plazma joined the channel. (16:25:03) kland: thats a shame (16:25:05) kland: ou wana suicide (16:25:08) +Fate Testarossa: I have a -1.1 voteshield :L (16:25:09) kland: i have a -10 vote shield (16:25:12) +Fate Testarossa: WOW (16:25:14) *************************************************************************************** (16:25:14) ±Current Roles: Light Yagami, Mello. (16:25:14) ±Current Players: Fate Testarossa, kland. (16:25:14) ±Time: Day 3 (Voting) (16:25:14) It's time to vote someone off, type /Vote [name], you only have 30 seconds! : (16:25:14) *************************************************************************************** (16:25:14) kland: give up (16:25:16) +Fate Testarossa: JOEYPALS FIX BALANCE PLS (16:25:17) kland: suicide (16:25:18) ±Game: Fate Testarossa shot at kland! (16:25:23) ±Game: kland shot at Fate Testarossa! (16:25:24) *************************************************************************************** (16:25:24) Times Up! : (16:25:24) ±Game: kland (Light Yagami) died! (16:25:24) ±Game: The Wammy House (Fate Testarossa) wins! (16:25:24) *************************************************************************************** I do have some suggestions to help balance, but I'd like to hear your thoughts first. The issue is that town cannot win without xfire in most small-medium games.
IMO, adding the different mafias' vote is a wrong way to discuss balance. There's no guarantee that all evil sides will vote together, since in situations like that mafia will often think it's quite advantageous to lynch another mafia since village is already a small threat. Not saying that this situation was OK, just that without separating the votes by faction it's not really possible to point which of them may need a fix.
I also have a few suggestions (but they might be the same as Miki's, so I'll wait and post/edit mine in afterwards) for potential balance changes.
The problem is that the village has nothing other than vote power to beat the other factions in small games. They also have an action dedicated to telling them who to vote (interpol), which is basically obsoleted when they can't lynch anything. Although it's true that in games without Misa it seems like LY might be willing to work with village to lynch Ryuk, or Near to lynch Light or w/e, but that doesn't mean the village is any stronger. If they're relying on another faction to help eliminate scum there is no way a perfectly played village has any chance against a perfectly played mafia. Not saying the mafias need to be weaker, but town needs a way to beat Mafia without relying on xfire or votes from other factions.
Best I can really think of is shuffling around so Mogi's in the lower spawn, but that's really the best I have. If anything, I'd like to hear your ideas first and then respond to those. Creating spawns is my weakest point as an author, so help with that is crucial to me.
Looks like I lied. Some suggestions I had (or heard from others) are to replace Ryuk with Mello or Rem in very small games (then again, the voteshield on Mello forces town to vote at 4 and without Eraldo, they could have trouble), make it so Ryuk can't /write and /kill on the same night, or have L reveal daykillers again. For medium and larger games, the kira team could use a nerf. Oddly enough, the only thing I can think of is removing Light Yagami's self bg but that's probably a bit too far (especially in games where Teru Mikami hasn't spawned, since Misa Amane can't kill). Reverting Light Yagami back to its old abilities (removing its self protect but making it counter nightkills again) would give village a better chance of winning, but it could also be seen as too much of a "nerf" for other mafias, seeing as they will now die if they target Light Yagami. Maybe this could be another reason to consider making L reveal daykillers again? Lastly, Rem and Ryuk are too weak without the Shinigami King; maybe giving Rem a one time nightkill evade again might help it out.
it looks like Kira and Task Force are 1 and 2 in the windata so making Light counter nightkills won't be necessary. I feel making L reveal daykillers doesn't reward Light for being able to find him which is what you should be doing in this theme (and what actually happens in the anime). If Mello is a problem to implement in small games just remove his voteshield. Having a simple nightkiller in games of those sizes is perfectly okay. I'm not quite sure what size games we need to be looking at but perhaps you might be looking for ways to buff Wammy over Kira rather than Wammy over village. Altering Near's vote (yes, another change would suck and be confusing but meh) and/or giving him immunity to Light's daykill might help with this.
Worked with @EljayQuiz and @Whereabouts Unknown for about the last 3 and a half hours (Espy/Eljay about 2 since left around 12:20) and ultimately came up with this to solve the spawn troubles. Enjoy! "5.22.15": "Shuffled around the spawn massively. Eraldo now spawns at 6+, Ukita is now added (OSV+Stalker/Neighbor), Misa's massively upgraded (if Light dies first anyway), Rem ignores PLs instead of killing them along with sharing Ryuk's kill, Mogi and the Shinigami King now spawn at 16+, and some priorities were swapped (Write is now at 4, Shinigami's kill at 7, Wammy's kill at 6). Also, Eraldo's distract is now on the priority list. You're welcome."
I do have doubt about Super Misa but it'll be fun to test out. Another quick note, Light doesn't convert Misa on lynch atm, only on death. The best way to code this is with onDeadRoles on Misa's part of the code. Also I just noticed Wedy can't hax /delete, which makes Teru immune to hax from her in addition to Near. At least Wedy should hax it imo. Edit: Or I'm Miki Sayakaing and forgetting how the code works again. The Misa convert is fine technically. (Although this is the issue with Genetic mafia in Body so I still like onDeadRoles better personally even if DN doesn't have converts.) If Misa does turn out OP she can go back to 13p and/or lose inspect and/or lose the bonus vote. Edit2: At 16p, can you swap Sidoh with a Matsuda? There's no reason village should be outnumbered 7 to 8 against Mafia with the chance that Sidoh joins them... even then, 8v8 is a stretch too, but at least Mogi/Ukita give the town firepower. Sidoh can come back at 17. Alternatively, you could push Matt back until 18 if the 16p setup is too much.